1 877-431-4276Cross Cultural Sensitivity for Evangelists
Have you ever wondered how culture impacts the way people receive the gospel? If you’ve ever evangelized in a foreign country, you’ve most likely encountered some kind of cultural barrier as you share the gospel cross-culturally. In today’s episode, we’ll be talking about how evangelists can become culturally sensitive in order to share the gospel more effectively in these cross-cultural settings.
Transcript:
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:00):
Have you ever wondered how culture impacts the way people receive the gospel? If you’ve ever evangelized in a foreign country, you’ve most likely encountered some kind of cultural barrier as you share the gospel cross-culturally. In today’s episode, we’ll be talking about how evangelists can become culturally sensitive in order to share the gospel more effectively in these cross-cultural settings.
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (00:34):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now, here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:58):
I was ministering in, in Pakistan, and I didn’t have a pulpit, so I, I, I read a verse from the Bible, and, and then I, after I finished reading the verse from the Bible, I just set the Bible down on the, the platform behind me. And it actually was extremely offensive to a lot of people, because to them, it’s a holy book. And if you take the Holy Book and you put it on the ground somewhere where you could step on it, ac even accidentally, you step on it, that would be a great insult. And so they came to me and they said, brother, we must get you a pulpit so you can put the Bible in the proper place. And so you have to be really sensitive. I, I remember another time I was ministering down in Costa Rica, and this was when I was a teenager.
(01:53):
We went down there on a, a, a missions trip. And I was doing a drama. And in the drama, I wanted all the kids to yell. So I got all the kids yelling, and he’s like, yeah, yell louder, yell louder. And then after I got everyone yelling, I gave them the, the okay sign. Like, okay, good job. And, and everyone fell into horrified silence. And, and I, I couldn’t figure out, like, you know, in America, if you’d go, okay, I mean, that’s a good thing. But down there they said, oh, don’t use that sign. It means you’re, you’re homosexual. And, and, and so I was like, oh, I, okay. I won’t use that sign anymore. You know? So you have to be careful sometimes ministering cross-culturally. And another time I was in the nation of, of, of Pakistan.
(02:41):
And right before I went up on the platform, I was at this, this big conference of pastors called the, the Alco Convention. It was started back in 1905 by John Hyde, praying Hyde. And it’s been going every single year, ever since 1905. And they invited me to speak to all, all these pastors. And right before I went on the platform the a committee, four or five of the, the, the pastors came to me. And very seriously, they said, brother when you’re preaching there’s something very important that we must ask you to do. I said, well, what, you know, what do you want me to do? They said, please do not say that Jesus is a dog.
(03:31):
And I said, you know, I was not planning on saying that I can agree with you. I will not say that Jesus was a doc. So I get up, I preach a good sermon, and afterwards I went down. I asked one of the pastors, I said, why were they so serious when they told me that? Why did they ask me that? I said, oh, brother. They said, last year we invited a special guest speaker from the United States. And he tried to tell a joke. Now, now, this is the joke that he told. It was, it is not even a very funny joke, but he was trying to open up, and it was about this, this this parrot and that lived in a house and a robber broke into the house, and the parrot started to speak to the robber and said, Jesus is watching you.
(04:27):
Jesus is watching you. Jesus is watching you. And the robber said, oh, what is that parrot know? And he just kept robbing the house. Well, out of the back corner comes this doberman pincher comes up and grabs him. And, and when the police come and, and arrest him and get him out of the jaws of the dog, they petted the dog and said, good boy. And, and they said, the dog’s name is Jesus. And, and when he would say, Jesus is watching you, the dog’s name was Jesus. Well, he just, he told that story. And in Pakistan, it, calling someone a dog is extremely offensive. And so it’s just a casual story. It’s not even very funny, but it’s a typical story that an American pastor might say, in order to break the ice. Well, they took that pastor off the platform after he said that, and they said, you’re not allowed to speak here anymore.
(05:25):
We’re gonna tell all the churches in Pakistan that you’re not allowed to speak. You have insulted Jesus. You have insulted his name, and, and they wouldn’t let him speak. So he, he went all the way to Pakistan, and because he didn’t know the seriousness of different cross-cultural communication. So, so we have to be sensitive when it comes to culture, and we have to work hard not to insult people when we’re ministering cross-culturally. And sometimes it’s, it’s just innocent mistakes. Like, I had one friend who came with me on, on a mission strip, and, and this is what he would do. He would go and he would shake the people’s hands. So he’d shake their hand, and then as soon as he got done, shaking them hand, he’d reach in his pocket and pull out a thing of, of hand sanitizer.
(06:11):
And he’d do this, and then he’d shake the next person’s hand, and then he would do another squirt. And he did this. And then he’d pray for someone, put his hand on someone and pray for them, and then out would come the thing. And you know, he was just trying to get rid of all the germs. But, you know, it came across as just a little bit offensive. The way that he was, was, was doing it. One time, my, my wife was, she was a, a crusade director helping an evangelist to set up crusades before we, we met and, and got married. And so one time she was trying to decorate the platform a little bit, and she had an idea, we’re gonna put the flag of the country on the front of the platform. And she accidentally, she didn’t know she did it, but she accidentally put the flag upside down on the, the front of the, the, the podium.
(07:04):
And she got in big trouble for it. All the pastors came to her and says you have disrespected our flag <laugh>. And then I remember one time I, I was down in the, the, the nation of, of Haiti, and, and we were doing a crusade, and, and we always ask our crusade directors for receipts because we are accountable to the government and to our partners for, for all the money that we spend. And so I would ask the crusade director for the receipts, and he ended up being very offended that I was always asking for receipts. You know, he, I, he’d go to the store and, and get some tape, and we came back and say, could you gimme a receipt? Well, it was just me trying to be accountable. But he felt like it was very offensive because he felt like I, I didn’t trust him with money.
(07:58):
And so every time I was asking him for a receipt, he felt like I was saying, I don’t trust you. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it was hurting the relationship. And so I had to sit down with him and ex explain to him something from our culture that at least in American culture, because of the rules that we have in the United States, we have to count for our money. And, and so I was trying to impose my culture, and in his culture, he felt like it was offensive. And so I had to explain, he’s like, no, brother, I trust you. I believe in you. You are a man of God. And I know that you would not cheat me. You would not lie. You would not try to steal money from me. I know that brother, because you are a man of God. But for my sake, with my government, I have to ask for receipts so that I can show that I also am a man of integrity to those.
(08:58):
And so, after I explained it to him and explained my culture and the reason why our culture requires different recording mechanisms for, for our money and stuff then there was no problem. Then he understood I wasn’t doing it because I didn’t trust him. I was doing it because I wanted to, to show that I was walking in integrity. And so, people from other cultures are completely different. We think that deep down, everyone is just like us, but that’s not really the case. Culture is all pervasive culture. It mayeth the man. And so every different culture has a different philosophical outlook, different moral standards, different social rules and behaviors, how you are supposed to interact with one another, and different cultures have different taboos. And so we are called to change people spiritually, but we’re not called to change people culturally. In fact, I think every culture has a piece of divinity in it.
(10:13):
Amen. Because in the beginning of time, God created man, God created all the different cultures, and you know, every different culture has a nugget of God’s character and God’s best in it. And, and different cultures have different standards, different things that they feel are are important. So like here in America, we have a different sense of time than people in other cultures do sometimes. Here in America, we usually will give people grace if they’re five minutes late. You know, we, we’d say, you should be five to 10 minutes early, but if someone’s five minutes late to meet you for coffee, we’re, we’re not offended. You know? That’s okay. There’s probably traffic, you know? And so in, in our culture, five minutes is not that big a deal. I grew up a lot in, in Mexico and in Central and South America, and I found that in those countries it’s fairly typical for people to be 30 minutes to an hour late.
(11:20):
And it’s just normal. You know, you say we’re starting the service at six o’clock, and they know that the, the music will start at six 30 and everyone will get there at seven. That’s just, that’s just how it works. In, in Hispanic countries, they just, and, and so they just have a, and it is not wrong, but I went to Germany one time and they said that the train left at 6 0 3 <laugh>, and if you are not on the train at 6 0 3, you’re gonna miss the train in Germany. It is to the second. I mean, it is, when it turns 6 0 3, that train is pulling out of the station. And so then, but then I went to an African country, and in this one particular country, it was like five hours after the service was supposed to start that people showed up. And I said, you know, we were supposed to start a long time ago.
(12:21):
Like, oh, brother, there was a lot of traffic. I was like, I know, but it’s like five hours, you know? But then we would have church, you know, for five hours for another five or six hours. Where here in America, nowadays churches are like an hour and 12 minutes, and then everyone gets dismissed, you know? And, and so different cultures have a different way of looking at things. And, and there’s nothing wrong or right about any particular culture. We, we find that we like our culture more than we like you know, sometimes, but, you know, we’re not trying to change people culturally. We are trying to bring Jesus to people. Hmm. Right? And, and so like the first missionaries that went to Hawaii, they, they were from New England where it was cold in the wintertime, and they would wear wool jackets and hats and stuff.
(13:23):
And they got to Hawaii and they continued to wear wool jackets and hats cuz that’s what everyone wore back where they were from. And all of the Hawaiians just looked at them and said, you guys are silly. You know, it is hot out here. We’re down at the beach. Why are you wearing a wool jacket? So sometimes we, we bring our cultural misconceptions with us when we go to the mission field. And so western culture is not Christianity. Jesus came from the Middle East, and sometimes our culture can actually be a hindrance. But what Jesus does is he cuts through all racial, political, and cultural differences. And so your job as a missionary is not to turn people into you. Your, your job is to make people look like Jesus. Amen. Right? Hmm. Yes. And we have to be sensitive to different cultures. When your, your, your min ministering to people, so, you know, the sermon illustrations that you typically use in the United States would be different than the sermon illustrations that you’re going to use in Africa.
(14:36):
Like here in the United States, I’ve heard pastors give illustrations about popular movies or popular shows that they’ve seen on Netflix. You know, well, in Africa, sometimes a lot of the people don’t even have a tv. They’ve never gone to the cinema to to watch a movie. You some countries, they’ve never eaten a pizza. Can you imagine that? You never, you never had a pizza in your whole life. And so if you’re giving an illustration about eating a pizza, that’s something that someone here would understand that illustration, but would be very different overseas. One time I was in India and I was ministering with a friend and he, he was, he was ministering and he gave an illustration. He, and th this was the illustration. He says, you know, one day I was, I was driving my car and I ran out of gas and I didn’t have any money for gas.
(15:34):
And he says, and I was praying to say, God, you know, what am I gonna do? And he says, then I looked in my wallet and in the back of my wallet, I forgot it was there, I had a, I tucked a a hundred dollars bill. And so I pulled out that, that a hundred dollars bill and I was able to buy gas. And so his point was that God provides for you even when you, you, you don’t know if you’re gonna need it. And so that’s a, that’s a great illustration. It was illustrating the point, but the problem was that not a single pastor at that pastor’s conference had a car. And, and so you’re talking about a car, and to them they’re saying, wow, look at your amazing wealth.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Right?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:15):
And then none of them had ever held a hundred dollars bill in their hands. In fact, the typical salary over there would be about a dollar a day. So, you know, you’re talking about a huge amount of money that he just accidentally misplaced in the back of his wallet, <laugh>. And so they didn’t understand the illustration the way that he intended for it to be understood. Hmm. And so, people in Africa, they’ve never heard of baseball or American football. You know, if you go to, in India or Pakistan, the thing that you wanna talk about is cricket
(17:05):
instead of American football, they, you know, they, they kick the ball When they play football, they don’t throw the ball. Here in America, we throw the ball when you play football, which is strange cuz the rest of the world calls it football. And so some cultures
(17:27):
like in, in Ukraine, if you say something twice, like here in America, preachers will say something twice you know, God is a good God. And everyone says, hallelujah. And they say, God is a good God. Hallelujah. God is a good God. Well, in Ukraine, if you say something twice, they look at you, Hey, do you think I’m stupid? I heard you the first time. Why are you saying it twice? Hmm. So we come to serve people. We come not as ambassadors of our culture. We come as ambassadors of Jesus. Good. And we go to people, we say, Jesus told me to come to preach the gospel to you. And I hope someday that God will open up the door for you to come to my country and to preach the gospel to us. We don’t go as the savior. He’s the Savior. We bring the Savior with us.
(18:34):
We’re not trying to come to, to rescue their culture or to, to fix people. We go to point people to Jesus. Another difference between the United States and sometimes Africa is that, that here in the United States, we have very individualistic thinking. And so an individual will make a decision for him himself. And so, e even when we get saved, it’s a personal decision. Would you make a personal decision today to choose to follow Jesus? Whereas in some countries in Africa, there’s much more of a, a corporate mentality where they make a decision to, it’s not just the one person getting saved, it would be the whole family or the whole village deciding to follow Jesus. And, and it would actually be very offensive sometimes if you go and you try to get a, a wife saved a and the husband is opposed to that, and it would be considered disrespectful that you would be talking to her instead of talking to the, the head of the household.
(19:49):
Because first you show respect and you explain the gospel message to the, to the head of the household. And then after he decides, yes, we’re our family is going to serve Jesus, then he turns to his wife and says, we’re, we’re the whole family, us the kids, aunts, uncles, the entire family is going to, to come to Jesus. Man, I was just recently in the, the nation of, of Mongolia. And we did a, we did a crusade in the ancient capital of Ganges Khan from, at one time Ganges Khan had conquered all of Asia from this place. And he had one fourth of the world’s population under his control. And now the population there has dwindled. And they only have about 14,000 people in that village, about 4,000 homes. And, and so we took a team, and it’s mostly Buddhists there. We had a hundred Christians with us that came from 12 different countries, less than a hundred Christians in the city.
(20:56):
And so we took our team, joined together with the, the local Christians, and, and went door to door throughout the entire community handing out bibles and giving people a, a gospel of mark. And so they live in these little huts that are covered with fur that are good at keeping in the heat during the winter months. And we’re going door to door knocking on the doors and that they would invite us to come into their, their little hut, and we would tell them why we were there. And, and many of them were, were very hospitable and, and would give us tea. And the traditional drink of Mongolia is fermented horse milk. And so they’d bring this big bowl of warm fermented horse melt. And the pastor gave me and said, this is the traditional drink of my country. And, and, and so I, I tasted it and it tasted like really sour yogurt, like, like unsweetened yogurt, really sour, unsweetened yogurt.
(22:04):
And so I, I tasted it. And you know, their, their idea of a good time on a cold winter night is to sit around the fireplace and everyone tells stories to one another and passes around the big bowl of fermented horse milk. And so I drank the traditional drink of his people, and then I said, brother, I want you to drink the traditional drink of my people. And I brought out a bottle of Coca-Cola and gave him a bottle of Coca-Cola. And, and so we went and, and we visited the household. And so, so in, in cases like that, where you have an opportunity to, to go into someone’s house and you’re, you’re offering to pray for them and to talk to them about Jesus and to, to give them a Bible, you know, if they give you something to drink, it’s appropriate to go ahead and, and take a drink.
(22:52):
If they give you something to eat, it’s appropriate to go ahead and eat. Sometimes you don’t know what it is, but praise God, you say, God bless this food, and I pray that all sickness will stay far away from my body in Jesus’ name. And, and you eat it because that’s what is, is culturally appropriate to do. And you wouldn’t do anything to, to offend them. And usually people are, are very forgiving. Even if you learn just a few words in their language, and even if you mispronounce them, they will love you for trying. One of the things I do sometimes when I’m preaching is I’ll try to learn a few words in their language. And, and so I’ll, I’ll say God is good. And the the translator will say, and I’ll say, good. And the translator will say, went on. So I’ll repeat it in the local language.
(23:47):
And usually I completely mess up and everyone, everyone laughs and I say, the devil is bad. And then they’ll say bad in the local language. And I’ll try to, and I’ll try to say good and bad and good and bad. And, and I’ll, I’ll completely mangle their language and everyone will laugh at me. But it’s a great way to connect with them because I’m, I’m showing that I’m at least trying to learn something of their local language. I’m at least trying to, to relate to them. And even if I mess it up, they can laugh at me. It’s okay, it’s fine, as long as they wanna laugh at me. Just make sure when you’re preaching, never do anything that would show that you’re laughing at them. Right, right. Because if you start laughing at them, well, it’ll just close every door Yeah. To open up for, for you to share the gospel.
(24:47):
But if they can laugh at you, I, you know, I make fun of myself. One time I was in Africa and I, I went with a, an African-American pastor who is really big and very tall, and he’s very regal in the way that he walks. And, and so the, the church is over in Africa, just loved him because he would, he would walk in and so they gave him an African name, and the African name that they gave him, he says, what does that mean? They said, it means the king has returned. And so he walked in with this name, the king has returned, and I had this big backpack that I carried on my back. And it had my camera and all my, my, my bible, my laptop, everything in it. And so I was always carrying this big backpack. And so they gave me an African name and I said, what does my African name mean? And they said, your name means small man with big backpack.
(25:55):
One time, my, my wife Jessica, she, she lived for a year in Kenya, and all the different members of her team had babies named after them. And so one of her team members is, is named Scott. And so one day they brought a little baby boy and they said, we are naming this boy Scott. And they couldn’t even pronounce Scott, but there’s Scott, Scott. And so my wife was, she’s like, well, when are they gonna name a baby after me? They named babies after like two or three of the team members. And so one day finally they came to her and they were so excited and, and saying, and, and said, we named it Jessica. Jessica. And she’s like, oh, finally a baby has been named after me. And, and, and the pastor grabbed her by the hand and says, come and see, come and see Jessica. And, and she didn’t really totally understand, but grabbed her by the hand and she went out and out in front of his house, there was his brand new cow that he’s been saving up for. And he said, we’ve named a cow, Jessica. And so all her team members got named after babies, and she got a cow named Jessica, named after her.
(27:11):
Alright. So when we’re ministering to people overseas, the best thing that we can do is to show honor and respect to them, to, to show that we value them as people. We are all created in the image of God. And God does not create trash. You are valuable. You are made in God’s image. And I’ve found that if you will show that you value and respect people and try to learn their customs, try to be polite to them that you will open up doors. Even if you make a little mistake, do a a wrong hand gesture or say something wrong that would be offensive in their culture. As long as you’re showing respect and honor to them, it will smooth over many problems. One time I took a friend of mine with me down to Brazil, and he’s a children’s minister. His name is Mark.
(28:16):
And Mark’s a great guy, and he loves children. And so he just, he ministers like his foot is plugged into an electric socket and he’s just, he, you know, he, he’s excited, but he’s the type of guy who, who has very few filters. And so like, he’s always like, and so I took him with me to Brazil, and during the crusade he’s like, can I take all the kids to the back? And you, you’re ministering the adults in front all this, I, I’ll minister to them. And so he, he took all the kids and he had this big parachute type thing that he spread out on the ground as a tarp. And he had all the kids sit down and he was doing games with them and, and teaching them, telling them Bible stories. And, and I was like halfway through my message, and some someone came running up to me and, and they, they, there’s, they’re, they’re like, you know, talking about witchcraft and there’s witchcraft going on, like, what’s going on?
(29:09):
And, and, and so I, I handed the microphone to someone else, and I went back there and I found out that he was doing a teaching on, on Jesus, the lie of the world. And he brought some of those little candles with him, and he like, put them in a circle on the thing, and he’d lit all the candles. And they thought he was like putting curses on the kids because the witches down there, they actually do that type of thing. And so I’m like, mark, don’t do that. You know, blow out all the candles. And I’m like, don’t witchcraft, okay, you’re not allowed to do witchcraft at the crusade. You know? And he was just doing it as an illustration for the kids, and it was fun. But he didn’t have a, a cultural sensitivity to the, the, the, the, he didn’t know it wasn’t his fault.
(29:59):
But and then I took Mark with me again to Mongolia. And again, we, we were doing a, a children’s, he was, we had a children’s tent set up. We had a big tent for the adults and then a little tent for the kids. And, and so there were local children’s ministers that were, that dressed up as clowns. And they, they had a habit of, of ministering to the kids there, and they had a way of doing it. And the Mongolian people are very proud. They are warriors. They are the descendants of Genus Khan. And even the Christians, I would not wanna mess with them. I mean, they have a warrior spirit in them, and they are a very proud people. It’s very rare that they would invite someone in from the outside to come and minister there because they feel a, like, if they have to bring in, you know, a gift from the outside, that it’s because they’re lacking something in, in their, in, in themselves.
(31:00):
And, and so they’re very proud. So we were very honored to be invited and to, to, to be there. And, and so during the children’s service, you know, I, I told Mark, okay, I want you to sit down with their children’s minister, and you put together a plan, you know, you do some of your ministry, let them do some of their ministry and, and you know, put together a plan for how the whole service would go and share it. And there ended up being a fight between my children’s minister and their children’s ministers because my guy wanted to do it his way, and they had their way of doing it. And somehow they got offended and, and my guy got offended and we had to go. And it actually got to point where escalator, where we had to bring it to the, the leadership level where the pastors, and we had to sit down and I said, oh, I’m so sorry.
(32:00):
We didn’t know. We did not understand your culture. I’m so sorry that this has happened. As a leader, I, I take full responsibility for anything offensive that was said. That was not our intention. We just, we want to work together with you. And so we were able to, to smooth it over. But there was still a little bit of offense. And so kind of the way we smoothed it over is like their, their children’s ministers got one night and then my guy got one night, but we weren’t able to get them to, to work together because of, of the offense that had come, just because of a, a misunderstanding of that, that Asian culture, you know face very important in the Asian culture, you, you would not want to insult someone or to cause shame to come upon them. You know, so, you know, in front of people, I, I would always lift people up, always speak, encouraging words, you know I, I encourage people. All right. So those are some, some thoughts about culture. Let’s go ahead and open it up for questions and if you have any questions about culture or anything that I’ve said go ahead. We have a microphone here. You can come and, and ask your question right here at this microphone and I’ll do my best to answer any questions that you would have about culture.
(33:21):
Yeah, yeah. That’s how they told me we’re supposed to do it.
Evangelism Student #1 (33:27):
That’s right. I think
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:29):
In the c fan culture, that’s how
Evangelism Student #1 (33:31):
They
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:31):
Recording have instructed me to do it.
Evangelism Student #1 (33:34):
Yes. Regarding I just want to know, how do you prepare when you have to go in in a new country? How do you prepare just regarding the, the cultural aspect? Do you ask questions to the local leaders? Do you, do you have people from your team going there just to, to try to understand, do you watch movies? What, what are you,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:57):
What what country are you from?
Evangelism Student #1 (33:59):
Ivory. I’m native from Ivory Coast, but I live in Canada. I’ve been living in Canada over the last 20 years, so,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:03):
Okay. So are you can Canadian or Ivory Coast? I’m both. What is your culture?
Evangelism Student #1 (34:07):
I’m, IM bicultural actually. Okay. I’m I live half of my life in, in every coast. Mm-Hmm. And the overall half in Canada, so,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:15):
Okay. My, my wife is actually from Canada. Okay. Her family is Chinese. Okay. So both her mother and father are Chinese. Okay. And, and they were, her father was born over in Hong Kong. Mm-Hmm. Her mothers from a Chinese family. Okay. But they immigrated to Canada. And, and so she is Canadian, Canadian mostly by culture, but with some aspects of Chinese culture, just little that they got saved. And so when they got saved mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, a lot of the, the negative things in Chinese culture, they, they took out of their family, but she, they still, I mean, she still cooks me Chinese food, which is delicious. <Laugh>, you know, the
Evangelism Student #1 (34:57):
Food is always important.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:00):
So what, what what have you found is different between like, the culture in Ivory Coast and the
Evangelism Student #1 (35:05):
Culture? Oh, I found a lot actually.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:07):
Like, like what are some examples?
Evangelism Student #1 (35:08):
I remember like the, the Indi individualism is something like being in Canada was the first thing that struck me. I was so, so impacted that the people in Canada was, was most interested into the, the things coming from a coast. It’s like we, we care for others. We, we, we are very welcoming to people we don’t know. So basically it’s like, this is something I have to learn. For example, in in, in co devo in our coast, people are welcoming first, they’re very welcoming. Actually, like about 20% of the population comes from out of the country. So we are very used to having people coming from outside. So, and the first thing I, I have noticed like primarily in Covo in our coast, people are very welcoming, but it is very difficult to go deeper into things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So you have to build trust. You start with like a basic level of, of trust, but then you have to go forward. In Canada, it’s like different people in, in, in Quebec in particular, because I don’t say Quebec is different from Canada. Sure. It has
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:29):
A diff Quebec is more French
Evangelism Student #1 (36:31):
In their culture. Exactly, exactly. And exactly. I live in Quebec. Yeah. So Quebec is different from other portion of Canada. In Quebec, you have first to build trust to, to to know people and then they trust you. There’s no basic level of trust that you have from the start. You have to find your place and build that, that trust. If you are in a context where you are friends, then it’s different. But before that you have to build your own, like your own, I don’t know how to say it. Your own relationship and Yeah. And go from there. Yeah. And this is one portion. And also I’ve noticed that, I’ve noticed in my own church also this what, what you are sharing, I have noticed this like fight over misunderstanding cultures. Yeah. And about time, for example, how, how do you bring people that have another understanding of time and the importance of time.
(37:38):
People are more focused on relationship than on rules. This is very like, it’s like a fight. You don’t, you don’t put this together. So in, in, in Canada, what I’ve noticed from my local church, for example, the, the pastor is very focused on principles. Time is important and you do this, but African are more focused on relationship. Yeah. You have to understand this different. I understand both. So because I, I’m coming from Africa, but I live in Canada, so I understand also the, the priority of time and rules and so on. But I also understand that also honoring people is extremely important. You don’t mess with that. If you, you, you, you misunderstand. This part is very difficult, different. And coming from Africa, I also understand that that portion, and I also understand the fact that you have to go to straight to the fact and don’t mess around with things that are not that important.
(38:35):
I live both culture inside of me. And the most important, which is for me is the culture of the kingdom. This is what is most the most important to me. Yeah. But for me, it’s like we are getting prepared to go preach, preach the gospel. I’m going back in Africa and different countries in Africa, hopefully, and I know the cultural shock, even coming from Africa, I still have to learn some things. Perhaps the, the, the, the gap is not as big as someone else, but I still have to get myself acquainted to different cultures, to different way of thinking. Because in Africa, in itself, from a country to another, it’s not the same, the same culture, you still have to learn. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:22):
Yeah. Even within a country, different tribes Exactly. Will have a completely different
Evangelism Student #1 (39:25):
Culture. Exactly. For example, in KVA we have 50 languages that are spoken just in Covo. So you cannot take for granted that, because I understand this way of thinking that it’s like the same everywhere. No, it’s not. And if you go with also local leaders and local officials, it’s not the same. Also, you have to, to understand that it’s a process that you have to learn. And for me my question was, was like regarding your experience
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:58):
Yeah.
Evangelism Student #1 (39:59):
How do you do to get yourself prepared? And how much did it take you to, you know, to be like more flexible regarding that cultural aspect?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (40:12):
Yeah. Well, I still make mistakes. Okay.
Evangelism Student #1 (40:15):
<Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (40:16):
But I think
(40:19):
I showed you how I do it in this question. Yeah. You know, first of all, I love people from Ivory Coast. Yeah. You know, so I would start there that I love you. Yeah. I see that you are a man of God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and you have a passion for God. And so that gives us something common that, that we can, we can work with. And then I would look for anything that we would have in common. So, you know, my wife is from Canada, so I share that. Oh good. You are from Canada. That’s wonderful. So, you know, I’m looking for, I’m looking for things that we do have in common. Cuz every human has things in common, you know you know, I, I share stories about my son and my daughter. I find all over the world, people are proud of their sons and their daughters, you know?
(41:02):
So that gives us something, you know, I talk about my wife, everyone understands that because they have that, those types of relationships. So I look for things in common, then I ask questions and I listen mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so I think your insight is extremely valuable, even for, for all of us. Because you do understand both cultures. Yes. The the culture that you came from and then your adopted culture in, in Canada. And you, you have an understanding. And, and, and so I think that I, I try to listen, I ask questions. I try to listen. Like before I go, I would do research on the country research on their religion. What religion they believe I would, I would look at different things. Just try to, to to prepare myself. Okay. But ask questions, listen, show, honor and respect the same things I’m doing with you now. Thank you. Yeah. Very good. Good question. Come on. Give him a great big hand. Wasn’t that? Yeah. Great insight.
Evangelism Student #2 (42:10):
Yeah. Hi. I’m from Germany and God just called us, like us as a family to be missionaries in the United States. Welcome and thank you. And it really came as a surprise because I, I thought God will send us to Asia or Africa. And then he talked about the United States, and I was like, okay, that’s easy. Like that’s a western country. But I talked to missionaries from Germany. They are they are living in the States, and they said it’s a different culture and we have to learn a new culture. And that surprised me. So, and I’m asking you so what could you give me any tips or what to be aware of when you are a German coming to the States and like what topics are, you know, you know what I mean? Like what is important to
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (42:59):
Know? How, how long have you been here?
Evangelism Student #2 (43:02):
So now I’m here since the end of December, but we are going to move here, I think in summer. Okay. So, yes, it’s very fresh. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (43:10):
What, what what are some of the differences you’ve already noticed?
Evangelism Student #2 (43:14):
The people are very open and very friendly and very cool. And making friendships. And it’s different in Germany, like you’re building trust over a period of time and you’re not so open as a German. So yeah, that’s a big difference. I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (43:31):
Think that’s true. Americans tend to be very friendly, but sometimes it’s a superficial Yes. Friendship. It’s very surface level. Like, Hey, I’m your friend, and then you, like they never call you or anything. Okay. <laugh>. And so that might be difficult to get used to. Yes. so I think that, that you can bring the good from the German culture, the the value of, of deep friendships. Yes. And, and, and build some deep friendships. But you’ll have to be intentional about building friendships with people. You’ll have to, to to work at it and realize that just superficial level of friendliness is it will be unsatisfying. You’ll think everyone is friendly, but no one is my friend. Yes. So to have true friends, you still have to work at it here in America. Yes.
Evangelism Student #2 (44:27):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. So do you say, would you say it longer to really build real friendships like Sure. And to invest and
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (44:38):
So on? Sure. The, the only way to build a friendship is, is time. And Yes. Shared Yes. Shared experiences. Yes.
Evangelism Student #2 (44:47):
So thank you. Yeah. That’s good to know. <Laugh>. Thank
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (44:49):
You. I hope that you feel very welcome here. Yes. So we welcome you. America needs you. Yes. We need a revival. Bring Amen. Some fire from Germany. Yes, my sister. Hi
Evangelism Student #3 (45:03):
Everyone. My name is Annmarie and I’m from VOI and I have always had a problem. I’m a picky eater and I’m still working on it. So I guess this is going to be my problem. So my question is, what do you do when you go on a mission field and people, they offer you food or drink, and it’s very difficult. <Laugh>, for example, you say no, for example. Yes. For example, in the Ivory coast in the South, we have a tradition of offering people some hot, really hot paper. Really hot paper. It’s powdered chili, powdered real, nothing mixed with that chili powder. <Laugh>. You have never eaten chili. How do you eat that? And then we also have this issue of drinking, for example, some Christian that say you can drink wine. Some others said, no wine, because it’s still alcohol. Do you drink that wine when we you have stopped drinking wine or any kind of alcohol for years? How do you do that? That’s my question. I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (46:39):
I would just be polite and, and grateful, say, oh, thank you so much. I, I don’t drink that, or, or, thank you. You, you honor me with your bringing me this. But you know, can I, may, may I have some water or something? Okay. You know, I, I think you can be sensitive to it, but without insulting it. Okay. You know,
Evangelism Student #3 (47:01):
So we can say no.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (47:03):
Yeah. You can say,
Evangelism Student #3 (47:04):
No, this is not good for my
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (47:05):
Health. I can say no. Yeah. You can say no. Say, oh, I’m fasting today. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Student #3 (47:10):
Okay. That’s what I was.
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (47:15):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an altar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Daniel King (48:17):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (49:38):
For more information about how to share your faith, or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
How Do I Find a Key to Evangelize a Nation?
Evangelist Marilyn Hickey talks about how every country has a key that will open the door to share the gospel. But how do you discover what that key is? In today’s episode, we’ll be talking about how to find that key in each nation and how to use it to make your evangelism more effective for the kingdom of God.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:00):
Evangelist Marilyn Hickey talks about how every country has a key that will open the door to share the gospel. But how do you discover what that key is? In today’s episode, we’ll be talking about how to find that key in each nation and how to use it to make your evangelism more effective for the kingdom of God.
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (00:30):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Student (00:54):
Thank you. I got like, you go to the places, like as you mentioned, like as you were talking earlier, the door, Lord always open the door. There’s always a key. Yeah. So like, how do you know that key? That’s the key actually. The Lord is actually telling himself. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:09):
So this is something that Marilyn Hickey told me. Marilyn Hickey, great female evangelist. She told me that every country has a key that will open the door to share the gospel in that country. And every country is different. And, and sometimes even within a country, you’ll have different things. So like in Africa, one of the keys that draws people is miracles. You advertise miracles. Sometimes in Africa, people will walk two or three days to, to get to the crusade because they, they desperately want a miracle. But then we advertised miracles in some other countries and it seemed like not as many people were coming. Like we, we went to Indonesia and we advertised miracles. And there there weren’t very many people at that crusade. And so the next time we went, instead of emphasizing miracles, we emphasized the music. And we found that lots of young people came when we were, we had talked about all the special bands that we had and, and that that was the attraction for them.
(02:17):
And so we had Christian bands up there playing and we had all these, you know, 17 to 18 year old kids right out in front of the platform. They’re all smoking and, and dancing. And, and then we got up and preached the gospel. You know, but the reason those young people weren’t coming is cuz they, when we advertise miracles is cuz those young people like didn’t need a miracle. Like if you’re young, you’re usually healthy, you’re strong. And in Africa, there’s no doctors. So the only way for them to get healed is to come for miracles. But sometimes there’s other keys that can open the door. So in, in, we were did a event in Sudan, South Sudan, and we were able to give away eight big truckloads of food. Wow. And we found that food was the key that unlocked the door in, in South Sudan.
(03:06):
And so you, you really have to ask the Holy Spirit to give you the key that will open the door for the country that, that you go to. And every country’s going to be different. I mean, there’s gonna be common themes between different countries, but what works in Thailand is not necessarily the same thing that works in Africa. It, it’s a different atmosphere. It’s a different, and so you, you have to be smart. You have to be wise in how you organize the crusade, what attracts the local churches to be involved, what you know, how you relate to people. So all of that goes into it. Great question. Thank you. So the, the how to find the key. You find the key by talking to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit knows the key. You gotta go to the throne room of heaven and say, God, help me. Tell me what’s gonna work in this place. Are
Evangelism Podcast Host (03:54):
You called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner. How to give an altar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelist Daniel King (04:55):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us in enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (06:16):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Jonatan Proietti | Nueva Generación de Evangelistas
Jonatan Proietti is organizing evangelism groups across Latin America for the Global Network of Evangelists or as it is known in Latin America, the Nueva Generación de Evangelistas . His father worked with Luis Palau for many decades and now Jonatan is continuing the family legacy by working with Andrew Palau. Today we talk about what God is doing through Spanish speaking evangelists.
Join the Nueva Generación de Evangelistas: https://ngepalau.org/
Follow Jonatan Proietti on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonatanproietti/?hl=en
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Jonathan Prot. Yes. And he is the Latin American Coordinator, director of the Global Network of Evangelists. I am the, the group of evangelists, which is under the ministry of Luis Pau. And I have the honor of serving on the cabinet of the global network of Evangelists along with you. And I’ve been hearing so much about what God is doing here in Latin America among the evangelists. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. And, and tell me what is God doing?
Jonatan Proietti (00:46):
Daniel, thank you for having me. Thank you for this time. It’s an honor to share here. And yes, we are by the grace of God, serving the Lord directing the laing ex laing expression of the global network of evangelists. You know, God gave Luis a vision to serve all the evangelists after him. We call, we call the, the Latin expression, the Spanish expression which the translates a new generation of evangelists. This is the same, but we changed the name and the Lord gave Luis that vision and, and he gave us the way of doing like the model. And it’s to raise a network of evangelists in each city coordinated by the local team. So thanks to the grace of God through the Louis ministry and my dad’s ministry for many, many years, faithfulness confidence and all that.
(01:44):
We know people. So we can go to them and say, Hey, this is the vision. This is, this is what God gave us, and we want to serve you. What do you think to the, you know, the alliance’s heads and, and leaders and stuff. So they, they, they embrace the vision and they help us find faithful people that, evangelist pastors, leaders that can take this vision and just serve in their country because they know their culture. They know the people. They love their people more than we had my, my love them. They, they know them. So who, who would be best to serving than them? So we invest in a local team. We coach them, we guide them, and, and, and we help them serve their evangelists. So that’s what we do. It, we affirm, we equip, we, we mobilize and we identify evangelists all over the Hispanic world in that way.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:34):
And you are perfect for this. You are from Argentina. I am. And of course brother Luis Pau was from Argentina, and today we had the opportunity to go to a historic spot. Yes. It we are in Bogota, Columbia. And so we went to the presidential palace. We, we saw the, the Senate house, and right in front of the Senate house, there are some steps, and then there’s a, a big plaza there. Yeah. And it was in that place. Yeah. That Luis Pau did his first big crusade back in 1966. And I’m a student of evangelism. Of the history of evangelism. In fact, I did my, my doctorate and we studied some of the history. And I remember seeing the picture of Louise Plow standing on those steps. And he’s got his <laugh>. He’s out there preaching the gospel. He’s young. Yes. And he’s preaching. And, and so, but from right here in Bogota, Columbia mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, the ministry of Louise Palau went all over the world. And in Latin America, of course, everyone knows who he is. And, and he’s done crusades in al in festivals in almost every Yeah. Yeah. City all over Latin America. And your father actually was connected with him, very instrumental in helping to organize the events here. Sure. So tt talk to me a little bit about the partnership between your father and brother Palau.
Jonatan Proietti (03:58):
Well, they were intimate friends. I mean, best friends, they were that good friends that they went to be with the Lord in the same year with si six months different, you know, in 2021. So yeah, we were here everything started for Luis in 66. Can you
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:15):
Imagine what a time they’re having in heaven? Yeah. Right. <Laugh>, I, I mean, they, I’m sure they’re sharing stories. Yeah. They are so excited. <Laugh>, you know,
Jonatan Proietti (04:23):
The only thing you can’t do in heaven is evangelism. So they
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:26):
Did, they have no job. This is the real
Jonatan Proietti (04:28):
Retirement. They gotta a whole alive to evangelists, what they’re doing now. Right. Who are they bordering? So Andrew Palau was born here, two in 66 and 52 years later, 2018, Andrew Palau and a servant, because I interpreted for him in all his Hispanic events, were in that same plaza, preaching the gospel wow. To a lot of people. So that, that is history, and that is amazing. And that is a privilege. But coming to my dad, he joined the team in 78 when, when the Louis Palau Evangelistic Association formally started like that. So we can say that Luis and my dad were together for, you know, when everything started formally for them from the very, very beginning. And they were so good great friends. My dad directed the ministry for the Laing world. And, and, and when I was born, I mean, I, I, I, I was born breathing evangelism in my
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:31):
House. You were born into the ministry. Yeah.
Jonatan Proietti (05:33):
Right. Like, you know, a Christian and the little PA association. So I came formally and full-time and officially to the team in 2018. I’m an accountant and, and I had a, you know work on that, but always in the ministry and always wanted to serve the Lord full-time. And I didn’t never imagine that this was going to be the, the, the call and, and, and how he would do so. So yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s 43 years together. My dad and Louis just, you know,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:02):
That’s one of the things I so love about the Palau ministry is this legacy of ministry that extends across decades. And the longer I’m in ministry, the more I think that God honors faithfulness. Yes. And Brother Pau was faithful. Your father was faithful. And then God is also a generational God. He’s the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And so it’s so neat now to see Kevin Pau and Andrew Pau taking up the baton. Correct. And you also, I am taking up the baton here in Latin America. What a privilege. Yes. To continue to serve the Lord for the second generation. Yes. And I believe for many generations to come, yes, we will see God do amazing things. It’s a
Jonatan Proietti (06:51):
Privilege. It’s a privilege. There are pictures of my, you know, my, my dad and Louise, and me and Andrew, and, and they say, oh, you know, you’re taking on your dad’s steps. That’s a lot. You know, I, I sometimes can’t just get what that means. And, and just praying the Lord, and just saying, Lord, what do you want? I mean, make me humble. Make me all, all the time, look for you and just, you know have that intimacy with you to all the time understand what I have to do and, and, and how to do it. But, but yes, I mean, the future looks amazing. And then that’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:25):
Privilege. I mean, they say that God has no grandchildren. He only has children. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so every generation has to choose to serve God for our generation. Yeah. And our generation has so many needs. Things are changing a lot here in Latin America right now. Yeah. And what you’re trying to do is to raise up a new generation of evangelists. Yeah. I I mean, we, we need many different expressions of evangelism Yeah. In order to, to reach people in this day mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And, and so let’s talk more about like what you’re doing to, to raise up evangelists mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, we’re here in Columbia. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you’ve gathered together people that have a, a gifting of evangelism. How, how many people approximately here in Columbia that we
Jonatan Proietti (08:10):
Know, we are counting like 200 and, and plus. 200 plus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:14):
And so these are people that they have a, a calling, a gift for evangelism on their heart. And sometimes evangelists, they, they, they have a heart for evangelism, but they don’t quite fit into the church. The church doesn’t quite understand them. And, and they need the fellowship. Yes. And, and that, and I think God is actually raising up Latin America in a new way. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that Latin America is going to send out missionaries. Amen. God told me years ago that the, the mission field shall become a mission force. Years ago, Latin in America was considered a mission field, but now there are stronger churches here than sometimes in America.
Jonatan Proietti (08:56):
We’re, we are experiencing that already. We were, last year, we were in Manchester, in the uk. And, and the, and we gathered the Latins. There, there were a few, not much. And they were saying, the Lord called us to the, to the, to the land that first came to us and gave us the gospel. So we are coming back to just, you know, to do with them what they did with us. And that was amazing. I almost, I was crying, you know, it was binge of laing people from different countries here. And that’s happening. That’s, that’s, that’s happening. We are, I love that. The Laing feel is now Laing four.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:34):
The, the mission field. The mission shall become a mission force mission.
Jonatan Proietti (09:38):
It’s, it’s happening. I mean, the Lord p he’s grace is using us to, to enlight the rest of the nations and just to, to bring them back to what it was their, the, their, their, their ancient glory. So, so it I’m seeing it. My, my generation is, is, is, is is witnessing it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:55):
Now, the Palau team just did a great event in Costa Rica. Yeah. Tell me about that. What happened in Costa Rica?
Jonatan Proietti (10:01):
That, that was amazing. I mean, you can just see the pictures. I mean, thousands of people, the church in Costa Rica is really unified. I mean, we, we got surprised of how they, they worked and, and how they served and came together. And that’s pretty much the festival means. I mean, we don’t go if, if we don’t receive an invitation, and the Tention needs to be reflected in unity, because if not, there’s no festival, because there’s no unity. And that’s the key. That’s the, the secret sausage of, of, of salvation. You know John 17, Jesus asking for unity, but he’s not asking for unity. He’s asking for the lost, you know, the unity is, is a, is a meme to, to salvation. And, and that’s what we do in festivals in Costa Rgo is amazing. Be bu Ours was in November last year. We
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:48):
Yeah. Tell me about that. That that’s your hometown.
Jonatan Proietti (10:50):
Yeah. And, and that was the first festival without dad, my dad and without Luis. Wow. And after pandemic. So it was the first one in many, many. Were you a
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:58):
Little nervous?
Jonatan Proietti (11:01):
We were like, business, Jesus, please help us, bring them lords. Breathe them from, yeah. Yeah. And, and it was a blast. It was, it was amazing. And we were, we, we saw a lot of, of harvest. Yeah. The Lord’s good. Lord’s good. That’s awesome. He, he’s, it was a, it was a sign of, you know, supporting, I mean, from him, you know, without Louis, without my dad in Argentina, the leadership there is, is great, but, you know, is, is complicated in some ways. You understand what I mean? I’m from there. So so it was, it was so, the Lord with a lot of other things is saying, you know, I’m here. This is not, this is not a name thing. This is not a some people thing. This is my thing and I support it. And, and I’m with you. And that’s what we saw. And then Costa Rica came after and there was another great, great success. And we’ll see that. That’s what we are seeing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:04):
That’s so awesome that the Palau team is continuing to invest in Latin America. And Brother Pau was so loved here by so many people. Yeah. And, and now a new generation has come.
Jonatan Proietti (12:21):
Amen. But
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:22):
I believe that in our day, we will see just as great a harvest and even a greater harvest Yeah. That the evangelists of the past only dreamed of. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I think the greatest harvest of souls in history will happen in just the next few years. Amen. Amen. And I believe that God will raise up an army of evangelists all over Latin America that will have a heart for evangelism, a heart for reaching people. And so I’m, I’m so excited about what you’re doing. I pray for God to give you wisdom, to bring the right people alongside to help. And what would you say to evangelists? Maybe someone is listening, they, they’re in Latin America and they want to get connected Oh, yeah. To the g and e. How can they get connected to the Latin American expression of the g and e? Yeah.
Jonatan Proietti (13:09):
You should come on board. I mean, we all need to be together. We need community, and we make a great emphasis in community, having relationship with people alike that has the same challenges, but also the, the similar strength and, and, and and, and abilities and the unique you can share with them. And they understand what you’re thinking, what you’re going through. So common on board, we are trained to go to every country and just raise an army. There a network there where you can feel a good and you can just maximize your efforts for the Kingdom website, www dot nge palau.org social media at Nge Palau, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. And when you go to the website, go to a place called Community Nge, and you can just fill a form. It’s quick, it’s, it’s fast. And you can know where the others, the other ones are. Just get connected, get in touch, and get in touch with us so we can serve you best. Don’t waste this opportunity to be part of what God is doing, and we are so blessed with us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:18):
Well, brother Jonah, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. Thank you. It’s so great to have you together. And it’s so good to be here in Bogota, Columbia together, and I’m excited to see what God will do, raising up evangelists here in Latin America. Thank you. God
Jonatan Proietti (14:35):
Bless you. It was an honor. Thank you, brother.
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Reggie van Dinter | Evangelism in the United Kingdom
Reggie and Angela van Dinter are missionary evangelists to the UK and Europe. They love reaching out to the least, the last, and the lost. Listen today as Reggie talks about the challenges and rewards of training evangelists in the United Kingdom.
Connect with Reggie van Dinter: https://arministries.co.uk/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, Reggie Van Dinter, thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Reggie van Dinter (00:12):
It’s such an honor to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
So you are originally from the Netherlands. Yes. But you’re serving God as a missionary to the United Kingdom. You and your wife Angela are living there. And right now we are in Bogota, Columbia for a collaborative crusade event. 12 different cities are having crusades at the same time. And you’re doing one of the cities and I’m doing one in the cities. So what are you excited about today, Reggie?
Reggie van Dinter (00:41):
So actually we’re on Alejandro’s team. So we, we, we join Alejandro to to Santa Mata. So that’s incredible. What I’m excited about today is, my goodness, this is the first time that I’m actually putting food in a presidential house. And actually with all of the evangelists together going and prayer, walking across the presidential buildings is absolutely amazing. I mean, I see that as a absolutely God divine moment, like a divine God incident. You know, sometimes people speak about, oh yeah, that’s a coincidence. No, I don’t believe in coincidence. I believe in God incidences, and this is very much a God incident. You know, God really orchestrated this. I’m just really excited you know, to just pray a walk, you know, those buildings and just proclaiming the, proclaiming the good news of Jesus over the Presidential House. And at the same time, you know, when we go up to the mountain to go and pray over the city with all of us, it’s gonna be incredible. I’m, I’m just so excited. Yesterday I was in a plane. I was so buzzing at the moment that we arrived in Mexico already. I was like, Angela, I’m so excited. We’re, we’re, I’m actually in Latin America now because Mexico is Latin America as well. And yeah, I’m, I’m just, yeah, I’m just so expecting, you know, so many things that I can share, but then we sit here for a whole day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:05):
So tell me about your ministry and what you feel called by God to do
Reggie van Dinter (02:10):
So. Our ministry has pretty much various vision. So our heart is evangelism, missions discipleship, unity social action. My wife is, my wife is a real a real activist. She loves to just invest, investing people like one on one you know, feeding the poor, looking after children orphanages and, and yeah. So, so we’ve kind of incorporated that, that in our ministry to kind of like set up kind of like a mercy ministry as part of, you know, preaching the gospel because yeah, that’s, that’s very much what’s part of, of, of what we do. So and also co consultancy, because we both have been in ministry altogether about 30 plus years, me like 10 plus years in evangelistic being involved. I’ve been a youth pastor in an ALG church, so I, I worked as a youth pastor as well full-time.
(03:06):
So we, we’ve combined our experience in ministry and God really gave us a ministry to, to basically help churches to look more outward focused. And and, and I think one of the things that’s very key in our you know, in our ministry is to be kind of like revivalist, I would say, you know, our heart is to revitalize churches that are on the brink of dying. That that may be on the brink of like, kind of like say, well, we don’t know what to do anymore. How do we reach our local community? That’s where we come in. That’s where we like, Hey, come on. You know, we want to come alongside you and we want to strategize and plan a, you know, vision cast of how we can reach a local community for Jesus. So we’ve recently done a mission in Birmingham in the uk.
(03:52):
We’ve come alongside. Yeah, tell me about that. What, what did God do in Birmingham? So so we went in Birmingham. We, we, so at one point we had a friend telling us, why don’t you send emails to churches and introduce your ministry and introduce what you do so that people get to know what you do and stuff. So we, I, so basically I went through all of the, a OG churches in the uk, sent a whole list. <Laugh> sent a, sent, sent an email introducing a ministry to like more than 500 churches in the ALG network in the uk. And and just see what happens. This particular church reached out, was an ALG church in Birmingham, west Bromwich actually, which is an area. And they said, well, we’re, we’re organizing a eastern mission the fifth till the 9th of April. Do you think you will be able to, to do this?
(04:35):
Would you be able to come alongside us and, and, and do a mission with us? So me and my wife talked about it. We did, and we yeah, we, we, we organized this mission with the church. We’ve got a team of people together precious friends of ours, or in each individually run their own ministry, their evangelistic ministry. We’ve got friends who are like like spiritual father and mother sort. They’re very much on identity. So we did a school of evangelism for three days with this church from like the fifth till the seventh April. We trained and equipped them in, in all areas of evangelism. We train and equip them about identity, you know, knowing who we are in Christ, that we have a, you know, an inheritance as sons and daughters. Cuz I, I’m really convinced that it’s so important when we do evangelism schools, that we teach on everything, like all the basics of Christian life, what it means to be a son and a daughter, and to walk in the authority and the power that God has given us.
(05:29):
You know, to, to raise the dad, to heal the sick, to cast out demons. And because in the western world, there’s quite a lot of people that, that find it difficult to like find, okay, well am I called to evangelize? You know, not, yes, you have evangelists that are there to equip the saints, but everybody is called to witness. Everybody is called to share Jesus on a daily basis for people. So this is what we taught in this school. We went out on the street every day. We had some stepping out for the very first time, sharing the gospel with a total stranger.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:02):
And how did people respond on the streets of Birmingham
Reggie van Dinter (06:06):
Very
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:06):
Openly? Did you get cussed at, did you get argued with or were people receptive?
Reggie van Dinter (06:11):
So we have people recept, so West Bromage, the town centers very multicultural. So there’s Hindus, there’s Muslims, there’s Buddhist, there’s atheist. There was even there was even one of the pastor and one of our team members had a chat with a guy who said he was an atheist, but also like followed all sorts of like satanic rituals and all this sort of stuff. And so yeah, a one’s belief, but I don’t anymore. So I think what, what we’ve seen on the streets is people receptive, people not receptive. We’ve seen people literally cursing at us like, what are you doing here? Just get the, be out. You know, when you, you don’t belong here and why don’t you come here preaching the gospel to us, you know, you’re preaching a dead God. No, we’re preaching a God. There’s a life because he does miracles. We’ve seen healings on the streets. We’ve seen people get healed from, from back pains, you know, neck pains, all of that on the street. It was absolutely incredible.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:07):
Wow. What a tremendous testimony to know that God is working not only here in Latin America, but also in Great Britain. Exactly. And in Europe, I I think it’s time for a great awakening come on in Europe and for God to pour out his Holy Spirit Yeah. Upon that continent. Definitely. just in month we’re going to be in Amsterdam and there’s going to be evangelists coming together from all over Europe and, and really all over the world for Amsterdam 2023. Yeah. And I believe that we’re going to, to see a, a spark that’s going to ignite a great revival across Europe. Yeah. And some people say that Europe is post-Christian, but I like to say it is pre-Christian. We’re ready to, it’s ready to see a great move of God in Europe. Yeah. And so tell me some about your, your business. I, I read on your website that you do social media, that you have expertise in the area of digital marketing and that type of thing. How do you integrate that into the ministry that God has called you to?
Reggie van Dinter (08:12):
So well the, the way how I, I integrated in the ministry that God has calling to, because, you know, because I’m an evangelist, I use social media at the shadow gospel. So my Facebook would be full of like, scriptures would be full of like live Facebook stuff over covid. My wife and I started doing worship and intercession evening. So we literally went online on our, on our Facebook page and just worshiped Jesus and give the opportunity for people to message in, to receive prayer. So we’ve did that for like two years in a row during the, the two years of Covid when we were in lockdown. And we’ve seen, we’ve, we’ve heard of testimonies of people getting healed and delivered during, during these worship and intercession stuff. And also we run online evangelism mission school. So we did that via Zoom. So it was absolutely incredible. We graduated 27 students, of which two of them went on to go to the Cfam Bootcamp. So who
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:08):
Was that that went to the bootcamp?
Reggie van Dinter (09:11):
Well, so so there’s a lady called Virginia. Okay. Another lady called Dubbo. Okay. they went to the boot camp, they did our online evangelism school. And they,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:22):
That’s wonderful. I, I get to teach at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp every year and it keeps pushing out evangelists that are on fire and excited about taking Jesus to the world. And so I, I see that across the body of Christ, there are a whole new generation of evangelists which are being raised up. Yeah. That God is calling the church to evangelism. And I think that over the next decade, the goal of the church should be to reach every single person on earth with the gospel. That our generation could be the generation that fulfills the great Commission. And in order to do that, we need more evangelists in the body of Christ. And so, no, definitely. Thank you so much for helping to train and, and raise up evangelists. What are some of those key messages that you are trying to impart to those that you’re, you’re training to be evangelists?
Reggie van Dinter (10:19):
So one of the key messages is that, you know, it’s about knowing who we are in Christ and knowing that we are sons and daughters. And also one of the other key messages would be is, you know, it’s really important that we work on our character. Cuz you know, you can go out on the streets evangelize and stuff like that and, you know, be full on preaching the gospel and, but actually lacking a lot of character and Sally enough, there are people out there in the world that, that, that are great evangelists and very much the younger ones as well. But some, some of the times in some, some areas of their lives, they just lack kind of like mentorship and lack. We need more mentors. We need, we need more fathers and we need more mothers. So I think also one of the most important things that I would say is it’s important to be part of a local church.
(11:23):
You know, we can’t have lone Rangers running around and, and, and, and, and, and not having a base where they belong to. So I think one of the key messages as well is find a place where you belong, where you have people that care about you, that love you, that know what it is about, you know, that have gone through the, you know, through the misery, have gone through the, the tribulations of, you know, being in ministry and and also give it time cuz you know, sometimes God takes a bit of time for you to get ready to eventually be launched into, you know, into a full-time evangelistic ministry. Like, for example, me, I’m still working full-time. I’m not saying I’m there. I’m still learning. I have mentors, I have I, I’ve kind of like spiritual fathers a spiritual father, so my pastor is kind of like spiritual father to me.
(12:19):
Who, who really just gets what he’s a pastor, but he is evangelistic at heart. So he gets the, the, the, the drive to see people saved. And he, he, he very much invests in, in my life. We have, our ministry is part of an apostolic ministry called Freedom Fire Ministries. So the guys who are part of I told you earlier Andy Chairman Goland they run a ministry, they’re part of the apostolic network of global awakening, so they’re ordained on the Ren Clark. So they’ve been kind of like mans to us. They’ve been pass, sort of pastoring us on a, on a, on a regular basis. And they’re coming up to our first vision and implementation brunch that we’re having in July where we’re gonna introduce people to our ministry share you know, what we’ve been doing here over the last few years and all the plants and stuff. We’re not there yet. You know, we’re growing, you know, our ministry is growing. We’ve, we’ve only just come around the corner basically. But what I’ve learned from the years of ministry that I’ve already done is it’s so important to have spiritual fathers and mothers standing around all these young evangelists and raising them up, you know, mothering and fathering them to maturity.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:34):
Amen. Yeah. Well, I think it’s wonderful what you’re, you’re doing to raise up evangelist and God has put it in your heart to be an evangelist and to raise up evangelists. And so I encourage you in that if someone wants to learn more about your ministry or be a part of what God is doing through your ministry, what is your website? What’s a good way for them to get in touch with you?
Reggie van Dinter (13:57):
So a good way to get in touch. So our website is ww dot www dot a r m sorry, ar ministries.co uk. So that’s our ministry website. Obviously you can find us on Facebook, arm International can find us obviously our personal Facebook den or Angela Vanden. And yeah, I mean we’re, we’re open to, to work with anyone that, that is hungry for Jesus and that wants to impact our communities. For us, it’s not just about the one-to-one evangelism for us, it’s about the long-term and the longevity of the impact in communities. So we, we would love to do like festivals like similar to Louis Palau. So we’re doing one in August in in Our Town. So we’re looking at that doing like a mini festival where we do like a week of evangelism
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:46):
In in the
Reggie van Dinter (14:47):
Uk Yeah, in the UK in Rochdale where we live. So Rochdale is sadly known, has been in the news a lot for like grooming, like, and stuff like that. So Asian people that will, Asian men that will groom young girls and all this sort of stuff. It’s been massively nationwide in the news. The town is known as the most deprived town in all of the uk so it’s in the top list of, of deprived towns. So God placed us there and to, to make an, you know, to bring an impact in the community and to, so, so, so we basically are actually, after we leave here for Columbia there’s a chance that we have a new house literally in the middle of, of the roughest estate of, of, of the town. Because, you know, we want to reach people and to reach, in order to reach people. We have decided that we want to live in an estate, in a rough estate to actually build relationship with the people in the estate to build long lasting relationships, get them saved, get them discipled and plant a church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:44):
That’s awesome. Well, I believe it will be a great success and I think it’s wonderful that you’re reaching out to the uk. Yeah. May God give you a great harvest of soul in Jesus’ name.
Reggie van Dinter (15:56):
Thank you so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:56):
Much. Well, brother Reggie, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. Yeah. It’s
Reggie van Dinter (16:00):
Been so lovely. Thank you.
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Clown for Christ | Chagy the Clown
Can God use clowns? In today’s Evangelism Podcast I talk to Chagy the Clown. He has studied with Ringling Brothers & Barnum and Bailey Circus and performed with Cirque du Soleil. Now he is using his talent for juggling and doing illusions to bring people to Jesus through the power of humor.
Learn more about Chagy the Clown: http://www.chagy.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest. I’ve never had a guest like this on the podcast before. Chagy the Clown. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast!
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (00:15):
Yeah, baby. We’re excited. We’re just like, excited to, to do what God want us to do, you know? So we are here, what, what, what we need to learn today.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:25):
Now, I love meeting you and love hearing about what you do because I got started in ministry doing clown ministry. Okay. My parents were missionaries in Mexico, and we were going out on the streets trying to get the kids to come to the church. And we found that a great way to attract the kids was to put on a clown suit, put on horrible looking makeup, and we would run through the streets and, and the kids would come, and then we would be dressed up at clowns at the church, and, and the kids expected us to do something. So me and, and my brother, we started being funny and entertaining the kids. Yes. And so the whole first 10 years of my ministry dressing up like a clown. And so we learned to juggle ride unicycles, ventriloquism. And you’ve been doing that, but at a very high level, kind of talk to me about your experience. Okay. In, in doing clowning. Well,
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (01:15):
First you need to understand that the Bible talks about clowns.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:19):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (01:20):
Why did you say that? In first Corinthian 1 27, it says, for God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wises. So yeah. With the foolish <laugh>, so, no. But we just started, I started 30 years ago actually in Puerto Rico. It was, I was trying to find a way to reach people in the streets. And I was a missionary for Puerto Rico in the Caribbean. And I, I saw all these evangelists in the streets doing evangelists the old way, which in some places it works. But in my country back then the people will not stop. We had this evangelist in the street, were screaming to the people and saying, you gonna go to hell If you’re not, you don’t, you don’t receive Christ. It, it was this kind of aggressive way to reach people that I don’t remember Jesus being aggressive that way.
(02:13):
And so I said, how can I stand in the middle of the street and do something and have everybody come? And so from there, I said, I started exploring different ways, juggling illusion. And then I saw somebody doing clowning. I remember somebody doing clowning, and I asked that person, I said, can you teach me how to do a little bit clowning? And he said, yeah, yeah. So he just got all this stuff and put me in clowning. And then something happened inside of me. It’s like it was a click. I went out there, and when I started doing clowning, people went crazy. And people will stop from, from 30.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:48):
So you make ’em laugh, then tell them they’re going to hell. What?
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (02:51):
No. Yeah. But I will make a bridge Yeah. To get to their heart. So I build a bridge to get to their heart with all this stuff, and then I will tell ’em and say, you know we have sin. We separated from God. But I, it was an easier way to bring the gospel. And that year, immediately I received a flyer and said, Hey, here, there’s a flyer. Because for me, it was important. I said, like, if I’m gonna do this, I have to be professional because I’m trying to reach the people, and I need to compete with what the evil is providing for, for the people, the social media, everything out there. The professional people are doing so good. They, they are attracting people. So I said, how can I be so professional? And then I found this training where I learned how to do clowning with people, retired staff from ringing brothers.
(03:44):
There were seven of them were in the clown Hall of Fame. And I got there, and the Lord just gave me favor with them. They were not Christian, only one of them was Christian, but they, they, I got favored in the way that they disciple me as a clown, as a professional clown. I learned the trade. They taught me how to be a, a very effective clown, because I wanted to be a clown first. And then being able to, with that, I will do the ministry because some people said, I’m gonna do ministry as a clown, and then you become a preacher dressed as a clown. I want to be a clown bringing the message, which is studying.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:25):
I was, I was totally a preacher, dressed as a clown, because I was always called to be an evangelist. Like I, that was my heart. Yeah. And so I was the straight man. Yeah. And then my brother, he was the, the, the funny clown. And so I would come out and try to preach to the kids. Yeah. Yeah. And then he’d start goofing off behind me. Yes. And he would make all the kids laugh. And I would turn around, and then I’d go back to preach, and then he’d come back out. Yeah. And it turns into a pretty good routine.
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (04:52):
Yes. But in clowning, you need to understand is you need to learn movement, facial inspiration, everything of what is to become a character. Because through the clowning, you become a juggler of emotions because you express everything you wanna express through sometimes emotion. I go to countries that nobody speak my language, and I can do 30 minute show. And I have not spoken, spoken the language, but I, I conveying the message, and without speaking, but that happened because I, I don’t need to speak. I can do all this movement and show them, express it. When I, I’m, I feel sad when I feel painful, when I feel all this stuff. So I convey that message with my emotions and everything, and then the, they understand what I’m trying to bring until the moment they, they really get the gospel. At the end, at the end, I, I start talking. I had a translator, and they received a message, but I had to do it as a clown, not as a preacher, because if not, take off their makeup and become a, you see, that’s what I tell people. I said, don’t be somebody dressed as a clown. Be a clown. Bringing the message. So that’s why I learned the trade. I learned how to do juggling, illusion all this other stuff, how to perform on stage in order to bring the message. And so that’s how I, everything started.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:18):
I think that’s actually very valuable experience for an evangelist, because as a a clown, you learn how to capture the attention of the, the crowd. Keep their attention, make them laugh. Make them cry. Yeah. Bring emotion. Yeah. And if you can keep a big crowd of hyperactive seven year olds attention, then you can do the same thing for any crowd anywhere around the world. And so, I actually think more evangelists should start out by doing children’s ministry, whether it’s clown ministry or not. And they should do children’s ministry to learn how to communicate.
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (06:55):
Yeah. And, and I didn’t do it to do it for children. My ministry never, never is labeled for child. I never labeled for children. I label it for the whole family, children of all ages. So I never, I never started because I wanted to children ministry or this group. No, I, I actually, I’ve been invited many churches on Sunday morning to do clowning and Sunday service, and they bring out the children to their classes, and I do the service for the adults. You’ll be surprised, because at the end, I take off my makeup and it becomes this very amazing experience, spiritual experience, because it is, the adults need laughter a lot children, it’s easy to bring laughter to that. But as also at the same, I’ve been in, in, in places in basketball court with 5,000 children. And when I get there, everybody is screaming.
(07:50):
You hear so many people talking and all that stuff. And I come out as a character, I started, and everybody sh and I, I don’t have to say anything. And I just start doing things as a character at the station. People just, and children are like, and I start doing little things that start giggling, getting the giggling of them and the families and all that stuff. And it gets to point that you have such a powerful tool to control the crowd so they can listen and hear the gospel in, in a, maybe in a silent way, way, because I do it sometimes in a silent way. Or, or just speaking, but with comedy. So that’s why they need to learn all these art. The experience of being trained with Ringling, that was Ringling Brothers was one. And then also I learned, I, I learned more when also when I work for CER sole I had the opportunity to work for them. And I never signed contract with Ringling Brothers because they wanted me for two years contract. And I said, this is, I, it is no negotiable me because I need to spend my time in ministry. If I go there, yeah, I will learn, but I, I wanna spend my time in ministry and c sole. It was just a small time where, not even months that I worked for them. And it was good for me as an experience and to bring it translated into the Christian world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:15):
And so you’ve operated as a clown at a, the highest professional level, and now you have a heart for passing that skill onto others. Yes. Yes. And so talk to me about that. How are you training other people to use the art of clowning and illusion to reach people for Jesus?
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (09:35):
Well, first thing I did to do that, I, I’ve been teaching and have some disciples in some countries, but it’s not enough. I learned in ministry that what we do is not enough. It’s not enough what we do. So one thing I did, I did a whole training DVD session where I teach how to do clowning, how to do illusion, how to do balloons, how to do all this outreach with drama, how to operate a puppet. All that in how to juggle. I teach that in that dvd, which sometimes some countries, I go I go and give it to some people that I see that, oh, these people, this, I can feel that, you know, this is creative enough, they can do that. So I give it to people. Sometimes I, we sell it in some conventions sometimes because well, every proceed, everything that I make is just for doing more mission work in the field. And so, but, but yeah, I did that. And now I’m tr planning a mission missionary clown camp in in Guatemala next year where people will come, we will train them, and at the end of the week, we send it out to orphanage, to churches to do mission in the clown camp. Training never done before. Most of the training that you get in the States is like a one week. You pay for it, and that’s it. No, I, I want them to get an experience and live an experience as, as they get trained.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:11):
I think that’s a wonderful idea. A missionary clown camp. There’s a lot of people that should go learn how to be a clown. And some missionaries are already clowns. They should they should stop being clowned <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah.
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (11:27):
And, and the idea out of the camp is just to make professionals.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:31):
Yeah.
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (11:32):
Because that’s the idea, is how you become a character. How you become this powerful character that you made. The people fall in love with you, and they will listen. Because that’s what I do in the Muslim world. I go into the Muslim world. I’ve been in 53 countries, in some countries I’ve been over a hundred times. And with the Muslims, I, with the character, you’ll be surprised. I go to the Muslim world and they don’t bring me for the children. They bring me to do evangelism with the clowning for the adults. Wow. And, and I do this stuff, and, and they fall in love with the character, because that’s what I try to do, is made them fall with love, in, love with the character. And then they will listen. You see, they go like, oh my gosh, I love this guy. I enjoy this guy.
(12:19):
But then I go and I bring the message at the end, I, they go like, oh, what happened here? I have one guy from Baghdad in in Iraq. This is a testimony. It was amazing for me. Before I go on stage to do clowning, they reserve this hall in, in Iraq. And they tell me, the pastor said, Hey, I tried to keep it simple at the end. Don’t make a big invitation or something, because last week they killed a Christian here. And I go like, oh, okay. You tell me right before I gonna go on stage. So I did my thing over 31, Muslim came to Christ that day, after I did my thing backstage, I go backstage and this, this guy that look like salam hue, he appeared over there and said, shaggy, can I talk to you? And he would speak English.
(13:07):
I said, like, yeah, well, immediately my head is like, I’m looking. I, I, it is survival. I’m from the street. I came out from the street. So my thing is survival. I gotta look like Hannah. I’m not going down here. I’m not going down. But then I go to him and say, how can I help you? And he go like, you know, I’m from Baghdad. I came to this, and today your message got into my heart. And I go like, wow. And he go like, can I give you a, ah, he said, I’m from Badda and I’m Muslim. And I was, and he said, can I give you a hug? And I, he hugged me, and in my ear, he whispered, he said, you’re welcome in my country. And this is a Muslim. So how powerful this clown where people evangelists, and many other people always say like, oh, you know, how come a clown and this, well, you know, with this clown, thousands of people have come to Christ, people who are Muslim world.
(14:03):
It’s amazing what God can do through, through laughter. You know, we clowns bring laughter. This is a, this is my, my slogan. I always say, clown bring laughter, but only God brings joy. So yeah, it’s it’s an amazing thing. I seen that so many times. And you know, I will not stop. I’ve been doing it for 30 years. I, I encountered an a mission in a evangelist conference. Conference. I saw these evangelists and these beautiful evangelists. They dress, you know, sharp, and they’re sitting in the corner and says, shaggy. But they laughing. And I see, you know, how are they doing it? He said, shaggy, can you come here? I’m backstage right before I go to go up dress as a clown. And they said, they dress like flashy. They said to me, I said, do you think that Jesus would dress as a, as you dress as a clown?
(14:57):
And I said, I’m not sure, but I’m sure that he will not dress the way you dress <laugh>. And I go like <laugh>. I said, so bye-bye. I no time for you <laugh>. So yeah, it just, you, you can count so many people out there. So religious people that, you know, we need to understand that Jesus was creative. We just need, we are fisher of men. And I tell people, I said, as a fisher of men, you need to understand that you need to have a bait. So I’m here shark fishing for shark and killer whales. And if you don’t use the right bait, you will not fish. So sometimes we need to study where we gonna go, how it is, and see what is the best strategy to get to those people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:47):
Tell me about how you communicate the gospel. What is one of your favorite stories or ways of sharing the gospel that you found to be really effective?
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (15:59):
Okay. if you see my show, when I do a clown show I start all the way from the beginning making simple stuff. I do, I do a, a bell routine where I play with people in on stage. Jesus love me, and I finish. And I don’t say not much, but I say Jesus love. And we do the funny thing of saying, Jesus love me, and all that stuff with bells, and people laugh and they see everything, and I finish and that’s it, Joe. I leave it there. So I go from the love of g Jesus that he died for, for us. But then I go all the way to do other ads. I include in my show, different act that has different message all the way to him, to the end. But the other message is about sin, how disobedient we are, and how disobedient you know, destroy our relationship with God and things like that.
(16:54):
So I use different things, elements on the end. Then I do a mind as a clown with the music that says, allow Jesus to come, make your heart his home. And then I finish saying to the people, I say like, you know what your heart is like, like a house, like a home. And, and you know, when you have a home, when you have a house, sometimes you have guests and you bring guests inside, inside your home. But sometimes you don’t invite the guests to the rooms to see the rooms. Why? Because sometimes we have a mess in the other rooms. We only allow other people to be guests and, and stay in the living room in the kitchen. But Jesus wants to come to your home, to your house and has the key to have the key to be the one that goes and clean all your room or the rooms of your house. Even those little drawers that have all the mess that we have over there,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:51):
Even the one room in the back that you keep locked with the
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (17:53):
Key. Yes, yes. That you, you know, that if you open the dark, everything will come down out. So I, I explain all that through all the series of stuff that I do in the show. I can do a whole hour show with all this stuff. And, and during the show, people laugh, people cry, and people think because the idea of a clown, I know it is that we clowns our jugglers of different emotion. We guide them to feel pain, to feel, to understand their, their condition. We help them to understand their condition all the way to the end where they said, wow, I need this. Jesus, this friend of mine who is on stage is a friend of mine, because the way he spoke to me as a friend made me understand that I am a sinner. But he showed me that as a friend, as Jesus did as a friend. And he took me all the way to the process that I know now that I need this. Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:01):
Well, I so love how you are using your gifts and talents for the kingdom of God. Yeah. You found a unique way to share the gospel. We need many different expressions of the gospel.
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (19:13):
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:14):
And, and so if someone is interested in being a clown or getting in contact with you, maybe inviting you to come to their church, what’s your website? You have an
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (19:23):
Egg here? Yes. Yes. You say, Hey, look, this is some of the stuff I used to explain. I don’t do magic because I know magic in the Bible is about doing witchcraft and all, you know, Santa, all, all the dark spirit, there’s no dark spirit here. Only the Holy Spirit. So what I showed with this little egg is that the hands are quicker than the ice. That I don’t do magic. I toss it up in the air, then got go like this, toss it up, but it’s gone. But actually, I left it here. This is what I did. I just did this. I kept it here. And then I went like this, and everybody go up looking like this. But actually I kept it here because the hands are quicker than the ice. You know, I can be deceiver, go like this, it’s gone. But actually it is guy right here because the hands are quicker than the eyes.
(20:09):
So it’s a deceiving art. And what I do is I tell people is that, you know what the devil is a deceiver. It is, it is the father of all the lies. So the first lie that he want to lie to you is about who God is and then who you are. So we had to be, so this is how I use things like that. But if they wanna seek for, for my ministry, and they can go to chk.com, C h a g y.com. That’s one place. Chuggy.Com. All my social media is simple. I am Chuggy I am, you know, h a g y, shaggy. So those are the places you can find me. And you know, you can look over there, the ministry, what we do. And it’s amazing. And I hope many of you just will become creative as you do ministry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:02):
Well, thank you for showing us a little trick there with an egg. I don’t know how the people listening to the podcast will be impressed by it, but certainly the video people will. And it was an excellent trick. Oh very exciting <laugh>. So thank you. And thank you so much for being on The Evangelism Podcast.
Chagy – the Clown for Christ (21:22):
Nice to meet you and hope you be, you become successful in bringing people to Christ.
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Elias Annacondia | Invasion of Hope
Elias Annacondia is the son of Carlos Annacondia who is one of the best known evangelists in Latin America. Today we talk what made his father’s ministry so successful for so many years. We also hear about what God is doing through Elias’ ministry, Invasion of Hope.
Learn more about Elias Annacondia: https://invasionofhope.com/
Connect with Elias Annacondia on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/eliasannacondia/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Elias Annacondia is the son of Carlos Annacondia who is one of the best known evangelists in Latin America. Today, we talk about what made his father’s ministry so successful for so many years. We also hear about what God is doing through Elias’ ministry, Invasion of Hope.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:33):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:57):
Welcome To the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Elias Annacondia, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Elias Annacondia (01:08):
Thank you, evangelist Daniel’s a blessing to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:11):
Now you come from a very rich heritage of evangelism. Your father is Carlos Annacondia who is known all over central and South America for doing crusades for many years. Yes. He has been telling people about Jesus. What was it like to grow up with a, a father who had a passion for reaching people for Jesus?
Elias Annacondia (01:39):
Well, for me it was a blessing. As a family, I have we are a big family. We have eight eight siblings. We are, so, it’s, it’s been a blessing to see my, my, my parents mom and dad serving the Lord. So what I can say, like for me, they, they set an example of being a team. While my father was preaching the crusade, my mother was taking care at home. So, and you know, the balance that I that is so at home for me was such beautiful, beautiful, to, to be part of, of a move of God that we have lived as a family.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:16):
And what are some of the greatest lessons that you’ve learned from your father? You know, a lot of people can see a minister from the outside. Yeah. But, but you grew up in the family. Yes. And, and so what were some of the greatest things you learned from your dad?
Elias Annacondia (02:32):
Well, there’s so many things from mom and dad because they were, like I was saying, they were a team. While my father was preaching thoroughly in different nations, even within Argentina, my mom was taking care of the family and the balance that they have. That was one of the things that I learned that the ministry boss both worked. While my mom was at home with nine kids, he was preaching sometimes we used to see him. Remember that back in the day, that was 40 days crusade back to back from Monday to Monday to 40 days. The longest one was 62 days crusades. 62 nights.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:07):
That’s really amazing because today, often crusades are two nights. Maybe if you go really long, four nights. Yeah. But can you imagine going 40 nights that gives you a chance to really change people’s lives.
Elias Annacondia (03:21):
And in, and even more, like I remember cities were transformed that the move of God, after 40, 30, 60 days, you say, like, the whole city will change. Cause you be, you started Cru say with 20,000 people, but the day 40, you have a hundred, 150,000 people. And the whole city villages were transformed cause it was such a move of God that was increasing every night. So for me, I remember experiencing being a kid, running around and seeing the move of God, how the Lord through the Holy Spirit will change like cities.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:54):
I think it’s so amazing that you are serving the Lord and your brothers and sisters are serving the Lord. Like God is a generational God. He’s the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And now your, the, your brothers and sisters and you, you’re serving the Lord. You still love Jesus, which is so beautiful to see.
Elias Annacondia (04:16):
Yes. For me, it’s just like you were saying, it’s, we have experienced a coherent gospel at home. So the same mom and dad that were sometimes preaching were the same at home. And you know, for me, that’s a legacy that I want to take to my kids. I have two kids and, and, and my wife. So for me, it’s just, I learned that, that that is beautiful as a family to see a coherent gospel. The same mom and dad that we’re at preaching to a hundred thousand people, the same character, the same hearts with us as a family, with us as a family.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:49):
Now, one of the things that your father is known for is deliverance. Yes. I read his book, “Listen to Me, Satan.” Yes. And he was known for, for saying that, listen to me, Satan. And he would start to, to cast out. Yes. All the demons. Talk to me about the deliverance ministry. Why is that so important? And and how did your father do that?
Elias Annacondia (05:10):
Yes. Like we have seen people focus on deliverance, but there’s so many healing that happened. And salvations the same amount in the crusade. So what happened when he got safe, he was 35 years old. He was a prosper businessman. So he got safe in a crusade from an evangelist from Panama that came, or Crue to Argentina. So in that crusade, he received the Lord. So what happened after he got, say he had his business, he will go back to his business and start sharing with people about the Lord, about the transformation of his heart. He will enter to some places like markets or restaurant and people would be begin to manifest. So he didn’t know what was going on. He didn’t ask for a start happening. He start falling in love with the Lord, praying, spending time reading the Bible, the pastors, he start going to the church and then read the gospels, the gospel of John.
(06:01):
He begin to fall in love with the Lord. While he was doing these supernatural things, what happened when he was walking in the street where he was, you know, encountering with people. So that was one of the things. He didn’t look for it, he just came with the package. And that’s why he was seeing things that he never saw before. So that’s why in his heart, he begin to prepare his heart, okay, how, how can I help the people when people manifest people was angry at for no reason. And that’s, I would say, what that was kind of the beginning of him looking after the heart of, of God saying, this is not common. This is not normal. So I have never seen someone like that. So that’s how he started praying and seeking even more the Lord to help that. People that were manifesting for no reason.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:49):
And so what happens if someone manifests? Like if, if he’s preaching, if he’s giving the alter call and people manifest I know that you love to train all the workers who, what, what do they do?
Elias Annacondia (07:02):
So we do, like, we do a training that is now we call it equipping the church. So we teach evangelism, spiritual warfare, intercession, deliverance, and holy spirit. So the thing towards that is we do that in the crusade. We teach the whole volunteers. We have like, sometime we have like 200 people in the deliverance, 10 pastors, leaders that we train like in a, in a practical way, you know how to perform the deliverance in a practical way. We don’t focus on the demons, on the legions. We focus, okay, the person we speak with, the person we take control, we, the thing that we do is take authority. The peoples manifesting. So within the, after the preaching, you know, like the great commission. So they preach the gospel cast of demons, speak new tongues and heal the sink. So what we do is, is as the ministry itself is known for these four things, preaching of the word of God, casting of the demons, failing the people with the Holy Spirit and healing the sink.
(08:04):
Nothing new is nothing different is what the Lord Jesus taught us many years ago. We’ve been doing that for over 40 years. And he worked work in Argentina and Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Europe is the same way. We have seen the same transformation, the same touch of God in people lives. So we believe deliverance is key after salvation. We understand that the people need to be self free. So that’s what we work in a process of, you know it’s not about some, you know, we, we learn throughout the way. Like some people, we throw holy water, olive oil, whatever you name, you know, it’s not, it’s about speaking with the person, taking authority over the manifestation and talking with their person and knowing where is the problem. So it’s communication. And then the people, you know, one who know the problem, the people will renounce.
(08:53):
Okay, I renounce to the hatred. I renouncing what happened in my past. I renounce you. What I did the wrongdoings. And then we take author, we break the yolks, and then the deliverance process begin. It’s beautiful to see eventually Daniel, when the people comes into the deliverance tent, every could say we have like 400 to 600 or 800 manifested people per night. So when we are praying after the, the, the prison of the gospel, the first thing he does is salvation calling. And after salvation is a prayer for deliverance. So we take 15 to 20 minutes praying for deliverance from the altar. So we have a team that is ready, the people that is manifesting, while the deliverance prayer is going on, they’re taken to the deliverance tent. Where carefully we, we, we like to, to take seriously the identity of the person. We don’t wanna expose the demo person. That
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:47):
That’s why you have you take them to a tent. Yes. Because you don’t want to expose the person. No. You don’t want people to, sometimes the Satan tries to take the attention away from Jesus. And so you take them into the tent. And then once they’re in the tent, the pastors, the the leaders are trained Yes. To, to pray for them, help them to renounce. Yes.
Elias Annacondia (10:09):
That’s correct. That’s a process. So we have two people helping. One, well, one is ministry, the other one is praying behind. Forgot to give wisdom, the sermon to the people that is ministering to that person. So we do it in order and we always take care of the people. They are not demons, they are not animals. There’s, there’s a person in need. So carefully. We love taking into the delivery stand. We don’t no.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:31):
Punching the demons out. <Laugh> demo. You’re gentle. Yes.
Elias Annacondia (10:35):
Yes. We are, we take authority when we have, but we always, when the people manifest, we try to make the person come back to the census. No. So we don’t speak with the demons. We understood that throughout, over four years, the Lord taught us the way to do it effectively. And then we understand we don’t, we’re not gonna do a show. We’re not gonna let the enemy do a show. We should stay control. We bound it and take it to the liver stand where the people is gonna be treated. We don’t like to expose anyone sins. And the pulpit is just taking care of the person and the person to be able to work in, in the freedom that the Lord has for them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:13):
And it’s so beautiful when God sets someone free. I mean, they can go from yelling and being very upset. And, and then once they are set free from the demons, have a beautiful smile. Yes. Like there is a true change that comes in people’s lives.
Elias Annacondia (11:31):
Yes. And that’s, that’s one of the beautiful things after salvation that I seen. Even, even over miracles. Cause when people get set free of the oppression and society abuse so many things from the past, you see them then when they’re coming. The result is a person that is willing, not only happy, not only with the joy of Holy Spirit, but that person is willing to serve the Lord in, in, in another level.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:58):
Yeah. So you explained to me that in your father’s crusades, there’s, there’s five pillars. Yes. You have salvation. Yes. Deliverance. Yes. What else? Healing
Elias Annacondia (12:09):
The prayer for healing. You
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:10):
Pray. Prayer for healing. Then
Elias Annacondia (12:11):
We do testimonies.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:13):
Testimonies. And
Elias Annacondia (12:14):
Then we go down and we pray for the people one by one with the local pastor. So we will call the local pastor. He will pray for them before the crusade the night before. And we get ready to pray for each person. We get down by Father will get down on the field, touching the people. And there’s many other miracles happen while we are with the people praying for them by hand.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:36):
And so often your father would stay for many hours. Three
Elias Annacondia (12:39):
In the morning, start at seven and three in the morning. Sometime he was
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:43):
In until everyone is prayed for.
Elias Annacondia (12:45):
Yeah. Along with the pastors of the city.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:47):
Wow. And, and then praying for the Holy Spirit as
Elias Annacondia (12:51):
Well. Yes. Yes. We do the, like even in the deliverance, like we were mentioning, after the person get set free, we stand up the person and we start speaking and never be baptized by the Holy Spirit. Starting, you know, taking the person to, to get to know the Holy Spirit and be baptized Yeah. With the Holy Spirit. And they moved, you know, in the Spirit. Cause we wanted the person to weave, fill for the Holy Ghost.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:13):
Yeah. Right now we are here in the nation of Nicaragua. Yes. We’ve just finished a beautiful crusade with evangelist Nathan Morris. Yes. And God has opened up the nation to the shake the nation’s ministry of, of Nathan Morris. And so you have come down and in, in your role in this crusade was to, to help train Yes. The different groups. And so te tell me about the different groups that you organize. You have the ushers. Yes. You have security. Yes. What other groups? We have
Elias Annacondia (13:45):
Catchers.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:46):
Catchers.
Elias Annacondia (13:47):
We have protocol.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:48):
Protocol.
Elias Annacondia (13:49):
We have deliverance intercession team. We have the prayer team. The prayer team is the one that are prayer for the sick people. We put the sick people in a section. So there’s a prayer team that will take care of them throughout the, they crusade. They will be constantly praying for the sick people. So, and that’s the groups that we mainly manage, you know, to, to make the crusade like, you know what, we have sometimes 30,000 people, sometimes, like in Gene Dega, we have 60, 70,000 people. So we wanna, in a way have a order. So throughout the trainings, we’re able to help the people and to, you know, otherwise it become a chaos. But we don’t want that. So that’s where the training, how to manage the messes. When evangelist Nathan is making the call to have order, the, the, the Asher’s security, everything is in, in order. So that’s the same way the intercession team will pray throughout the night, you know, and the deliverance team will be ready. Some people, when, yesterday, for instance, the last night while he was preaching, people was manifesting. We took a few people to the north stand where we love, we carry, we minister to them. So that’s, for me, it’s so important, you know, the groups that, that we bring order and also we try to, to help every person that gets there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:04):
Yeah. Last night when I went out into the crowd and was praying for people, one boy I was praying for began to manifest a demonn. And so the ushers grabbed him and they took him over to the tent. And then later I saw that he had been set free. Wow. And so it was so beautiful. And then I saw last night there was one woman, she was holding her crutches up in the air, like during the prayer for healing. Jesus touched her. She, she was healed. And, and the, the crowd was so thick that she had a hard time getting through. So she just held both her crutches up in the air. And I saw you went out to her, you grabbed her and said, come on, come share your miracle. And so I took a picture of you with the woman she’s walking. Yes. And you’re holding the crutches because Jesus had healed her. And so Yes.
Elias Annacondia (15:49):
It’s beautiful to see that. I mean, I love it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:51):
It, it’s so neat to see God do great miracles among the people. Now you are living in Houston, Texas. Correct. And so God has brought you to the United States. Yes. Which is good. The United States needs some fuo. Yes. <laugh>. We need some anointing from Argentina in the United States. So, and, and you, you have your own ministry Yes. As well. Tell me about your ministry and what you do.
Elias Annacondia (16:17):
Yeah. Like two years ago, the Lord was like, actually started almost seven years ago. I was in Mexico, chias in different cities. It’s six different cities near Guatemala and was poor villages and areas. And we minister with the crusades. And then I came back from that trip with a bird in my heart. And the Lord gave me this word, invasion of hope. So throughout the years I was praying, Lord, what is invasion of hope? What is that? So two years ago, while I was praying, the Holy Spirit showed me a word that says, you know, invasion of hope is bringing hope to the whole place. And the Lord start putting my heart, how can we bring love in action? So we, the Lord, begin to gimme like a plan of doing social work, medical work, and right the same week doing the present.
(17:06):
So we, we began like two years ago doing, we founded the ministry Invasion of Hope. And then we start working, you know, Mexico and, and with this and this village that I’ve been there seven years ago. And what happened, we have seen a move of God just loving on people without asking for nothing. Taking care of needs the medical work and then the crusade. And we have like, it was amazing to see the three crusade we have, the stadiums were packed and disabilities. We, we saw a move of God. And that’s pretty much how we began. You know, we are so excited for what God, God is doing for, you know, not only what our, our goal is the salvation going from death to eternal life. But in the process, the Lord’s teaching me, it’s not gonna be this, but also this loving people and taking care of their needs and then meeting their needs.
(17:57):
And then the Lord, we have seen in families and kids how they open the heart. Cause it’s just love in action. We are not, we are not saying, I’m gonna give you this, but you need to receive the Lord. No, no, no. It’s just, just loving on them. And with that conversation, they open the heart to say, why are you doing this for us? Why are you guys different? Cause Jesus is with us. And then we explain to them and they receive the gospel so quick. And not only that, the next days when we do the crusade, all of them come. So for, for us it was like, it was beautiful to see that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:30):
And so just recently you were in Chapas, Mexico?
Elias Annacondia (18:33):
Yes, yes. Yes. We have two crusade. Last year, November we did an <inaudible> and then in, in Chilon, which is like five hours up in the hills in the mountains. But it was beautiful people, they speak salt seal and cell other, you know, native languages. I mean, it was beautiful to work with them to see the Lord movie. We have over four or 5,000 people every night. It was four nights, two nights in each city. So Wow. The studies were like, you know, they never don’t. In, in Chi never happened in the soccer stadium. So it was beautiful to see this, the soccer stadium feel of new people <inaudible> moving. So for me it’s just an, a beautiful experience.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:16):
And you took some evangelists you partnered with Yes. Some of the evangelists from the, the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Boot camp. Yes. Yes. Who, who went with you?
Elias Annacondia (19:26):
Caleb w was one of them that came and Elliot Martinez. So the, we, we were, we were friends for years. And then we were talking about it when I, we gonna do something together. So I felt, when I received this invitation from the pastor, from Chi Chias, we want you to come to do another crusade. That was like six years ago. So let me pray for, let me pray, please. And then after three months, I fell for the spirit. That was the right time. So we went there and before we went, I called EB and Elliot said, Hey guys, this is the time. Let do it together. Said what? It was beautiful. Cause we preached it each night. It’s one of us. And it was beautiful to see God moving in the gifts of evangelism, the gift that the Lord put each one of us. So for me, I believe that we are living a time like here in Nicaragua time of, of getting together. It’s not about myself. It’s about how can we, how can we do it together and make it, you know, better, greater and bigger.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:18):
Amen. Well, if someone wants to invite you to come preach at their church or to come to a crusade, or, or if they want to support your ministry, how can they find out more about you? What, what’s your website?
Elias Annacondia (20:31):
Yes. The website is www.invasionofhope.com. So they
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:37):
Invasion of hope.com. Yes,
Elias Annacondia (20:38):
Sir. Yes. So they can, they can send invitation, they can know what we’re doing. They can pray for us as well as we are continue moving and growing in the Lord.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:47):
Yeah. I believe God is raising up the Hispanics of North America. Yeah. I mean, there’s so many people just in my city of Tulsa. There are so many people that have come from Nicaragua, from Mexico, from other parts of, of of Central and South America. And I believe God is raising up the, the Hispanic church in North America because they’re, they’re on fire. Yes. And, and I believe that God has brought you to America to help bring revival. Amen
Elias Annacondia (21:20):
And amen. I’m, I’m excited about it. I came like 2008 as an international student. I remember I didn’t speak English, but then, cuz I went to Italian school in Argentina. So and it was a whole process of me learning English at 27 years old. But I’m, I believe I made
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:38):
It. I’m like, your, your English is excellent. You’re doing great job with your English. Well, let’s finish by praying for revival. Amen. And why don’t you pray in Spanish, pray Yes. Pray for God to, to send revival. Amen. Let, let’s pray for Central America. Yes. Nicaragua, where we are. Yes. South America. And let’s also pray for North America. Amen. Amen.
Elias Annacondia (22:01):
Let’s join us and let’s pray. Father, were coming together with, in any national, in every nation, we wanna be part of the move of God on the Lord. Father, we’re gonna be part of the move of God that you’re gonna bring throughout the Lord. Father, we pray for those who are watching, that are hearing this podcast, Lord, that have been, that might be filled with the Holy Spirit Lord, to go out, Lord and to be witness of Jesus throughout the year. Lord, thank you for this time. I bless Evangelist Daniel, the ministry where, where everything and the great things that you are doing throughout his life. Lord, I bless him and I bless his family. Thank you for this time, Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:06):
Amen. Well, thank you Elias for being on the Evangelism podcast.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:10):
Thank
Elias Annacondia (24:11):
You, thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Evangelism Podcast Host (24:12):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out that Daniel King’s School of Evangelism learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner. How to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:14):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (26:35):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Christopher Beth | The Bucket Ministry
Jesus said, “Come to Me and I will give you Living Water.” The Bucket Ministry gives away water filters to people with dirty water and they preach the Gospel to people with dirty souls. Today I interview Christoper Beth about his unique idea for fulfilling the Great Commission.
Learn more about The Bucket Ministry: https://thebucketministry.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Jesus said, come to me and I will give you living water. The bucket Ministry gives away water filters to people with dirty water, and they preach the gospel to people with dirty souls. Today I interview Christopher Beth about his unique idea for fulfilling the Great Commission.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:34):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:58):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today we have a very special guest with us, Christopher Beth from The Bucket Ministry. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Christopher Beth (01:11):
Oh, Daniel, thank you so much for inviting me in. I just look forward to unpacking a few stories with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:17):
Well, I was looking at your website about the bucket ministry, and it looks like you are using fresh, clean water as a way to bring people to Jesus. Can you tell me about that?
Christopher Beth (01:32):
Yes, sir. So we, we work in about 12 countries and about 11 years ago, I got alerted to the World Water Crisis. I had lived a privileged life before that like most of us have. And when I was thirsty I just went to the refrigerator and got water out of the filter, or I bought a bottle of water. But after discovering this situation, I realized that many people don’t have access to clean water. And so we found a tool to use a very simple water filter that attaches to a bucket or receptacle. And through that process, through that gift of generational access to clean water, we have been able to connect that to the sweet gospel of Jesus Christ. And I, I’ve got a bottle of dirty water right here, and I, I like to say that there’s about six sermons in this bottle of dirty water.
(02:39):
And the, the, the most apt description of this water and connection to the gospel is this. Dirty water is a lot like things that I struggle with my life. Because if I drink this, I’m gonna get sick. It could kill me. And it’s very similar to the, the sin that I struggle with in my life and have struggled with. But this water filter that we use, and what it does is a, a very amazing representation of what Jesus did on that cross for us and how he cleaned us, how he purified us and redeemed us. And so that’s the, that’s one of the, the greatest illustrations that we use from this filter. But we use this as a way to reach people, as you’ve said that don’t have access to clean water and that are far from God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:37):
That’s awesome. So give me the first story of the first place you went to give freshwater and what the reaction was when you did that.
Christopher Beth (03:47):
Well, and that’s an interesting story because in 2012, I went to Brazil for the first time in the Amazon Basin and saw the World Water Cross Crisis. That’s where God breathed this ministry into existence. And then in 2014, we brought filters back. And in the beginning, Daniel, I thought that this was all about just the humanitarian goal of giving out clean water. I, I didn’t even really understand what God was doing through it. So in 2014, we go back with 80 of these Sawyer hollow fiber membrane filters. And again, I thought this was just about handing out clean water. And we go into this village, we set up, I have this entire elaborate presentation planned, and there’s about 60 people standing in front of us, and I teach people how the filter works, why they need it, how to take care of it.
(04:49):
And they all were super excited. So I felt really good about myself. Right. And then at the end of this, I’m packing everything up and this Brazilian man comes up to me and he says, can you tell me how you got to our village today? And I was like, well, I made a joke, right? And I said, well, that boat and that captain right there. And he’s go like, no, no, no, of all the villages in the Amazon, how did you come to our village today? And I wasn’t prepared to answer that. And I said, well, I’m a follower of Jesus Christ, and we felt called to give you this gift. And the next thing he said is what changed everything for me personally and for this organization. And he said, so who is this Jesus? And so at this point, Daniel, I’m looking around, I’m looking for a pastor, right?
(05:44):
Because I’m just this ordinary business guy, and I’m, Hey, who can tell this guy about Jesus? And so at that point there’s nobody there, and I just offer up my testimony to this man and tell him what Jesus had done in my life through a tragic car accident with my daughter. And then at the end of this, this man is listening very intently, and he’s got his hand here, and he’s doing this. And he says, so how can I have this Jesus? And I’m like, oh my goodness, I need a pastor. What do I do? What don’t we do with this? So I walked this man through the point of salvation and talked to him about this relationship with Jesus. As, as I’m doing this, the crowd is growing closer to me listening. And that day in that village I was able to pray for 20 or 30 people that wanted to start a relationship with Jesus that day in repent of their sins. And so that’s when we found out that the filter, while we’ll solve a major physical problem, that over 785 million people lack access to clean water, the filter will solve a major problem. But more than that, the filter is a key that starts a relationship with people, that we earn the right to be able to share the gospel. We earn the right to be able to start teaching them discipleship lessons.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:17):
Wow, that’s awesome. I was in India a few years ago, and I saw a dirty irrigation ditch next to the ditch. There were cows, there were chickens, and kids were playing in the water. It, it was filthy, but then they would come and dip a big bucket in the ditch, and that’s was what they would drink right from the, the irrigation ditch. And I was looking up some statistics on the need for water, and I found out that one in eight people worldwide do not have access to safe and clean drinking water. Nearly a billion, that’s 884 million people in the world do not have access to clean and safe water in developing nations. As much as 80% of the illnesses that people typically get are linked to poor water and sanitation conditions. And in the world, there’s 443 million school days that are lost each year due to water related diseases. Half of the world’s hospital bids are filled with people that are suffering from a water related disease. And also in India, often they will go long distances to get water from a well far away. And they can carry, like this, jerry can, it weighs over 40 pounds when full, and the women will carry it on their heads. In the world, two-thirds, 64% of households rely on women to get the, the, the family’s water when there’s no water source close to the
Christopher Beth (08:54):
Home. Women and children.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:55):
Women and children, yeah. And, and nearly one out of every five deaths in the world that are under the age of five are due to a water related disease. And so we often dig water wells in some places. And then right next to the water, well, we’ll usually build a water well right next to a church. And, and then right over the water well is a big sign that says, he who comes to me will thirst no more from Jesus Christ. And of course, Jesus talked to the, the woman in John Chapter four and promised her living water. And so that’s what you’re doing. You are bringing living water to people who don’t have a source of clean drinking water. But then along with the water, you are bringing the good news of Jesus Christ. So you are quenching a spiritual thirst and a physical thirst. So the, the filter that you typically give, how much does one of those filters cost? What does it cost to solve the drinking problem for someone?
Christopher Beth (10:02):
Yeah. This part is, is, is gonna be problematic to hear because this is an easy problem to solve. And I mean, it’s easy because many people think that we have to drill a well to solve the problem. But so we provide the filter, we provide a bucket, we provide anti parasitic medicines for the family and our indigenous missionaries, ORs will do a minimum of three follow up visitations in the first three months with that family. And then if they don’t have a Bible or someone comes to faith in the process, we will equip them with the Bible. So we can do all that Daniel for $50 in most countries.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:47):
Wow, that’s amazing. So for only $50, you can have at least a 90 day impact on the family spiritually, because you’re coming back several times visiting them over and over again. And how long does that water filter last? How long does it give them clean water
Christopher Beth (11:03):
And the, the filter will last a minimum of 20 years if well cared for? Wow. So you know, for, and what I like to say, for less than we can take our family out to Applebee’s and not have any appetizers, not drink any sodas we can provide the hope that comes from Jesus Christ and, and clean, safe drinking water for that family for 20 years. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:31):
Now, one of the challenges that I’ve seen with some organizations, they get really focused on the humanitarian side of ministry, which I think is, is biblical, you know, Jesus said to, to love others. And so the humanitarian side, I think, fulfills the great commandment, which to love God and to love others. But you also in your ministry have a real focus on fulfilling the great commission. And I saw on your, your website that you have three non-negotiables that you stick with as you’re giving away these, these water filters. And I so appreciate them because I, I’ve seen some humanitarians that will give away humanitarian aid, but they forget to help bring people to heaven with them. They, they help them here on earth, but they’re not helping them get to heaven. They forget that far. So tell me about your three non-negotiables.
Christopher Beth (12:33):
Yeah. And that, and thank you for asking, because these are deep in the heart of our organization. So number one of the three is Jesus is gonna be proclaimed in every part of our process, assessments, distributions and follow ups no exception. And number two, data will be collected so we can report back to our donors, to our partners, to our church partners, where the resources have gone, and to show them exactly where God is working. And then lastly, a minimum of three follow ups will be done in the first three to four months. And those are done by indigenous missionaries and pastors. And as you’ve said, Daniel we are focused on the Great commission. We believe that we are a great commission organization, and this is just merely a tool to get there. So the water filter will save lives physically, but why we’re there is, is solely to preach the, the gospel of Jesus Christ and to start to teach discipleship lessons and then point people to local like-minded churches if there’s one in the area or stark Bible studies in homes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:52):
Wow, that’s awesome. And then you also do kids clubs. Tell me about that.
Christopher Beth (13:57):
That’s that’s near and dear to our heart. And my daughter Savannah co-founder of this organization, she leads that effort for us. And you know, when we distribute one of these filters, the fa the adults learn how to care for the filter. They understand the impact of that, but we want to influence the next generation because quite frankly, you know, we’re a bunch of old guys and we, we need to be bringing up that next generation. So in both domestically in the United States and in foreign countries we are gathering recipient kids and church partner kids sometimes as much as weekly, every other week once a month. And teaching them how the filter works, works teaching ’em about the world water crisis, and then in many cases for recipient kids, teaching them about this gift that their family got.
(14:56):
So they could also be responsible for caring for it and understanding the importance of clean water. And in many cases, the kids are the best stewards of the gift. And so the kids club aspect is something that we are all very, very excited about. And the really cool part is, it translates, it doesn’t matter if it’s a partner church here in the US or a recipient family elsewhere. The kids are just hungry to learn. They’re hungry to just be kids. And while it’s very similar to other V B s curriculums, it really focuses in on the world water crisis and how a young person can be involved to be the solution.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:42):
Amen. Well, Mr. Christopher, I know someone who’s listening right now is feeling led to come and support and to help sponsor some water filters. So how can someone give a donation or help the ministry or, or find out more about you? What, what is your website?
Christopher Beth (16:03):
Yeah, the very best way is to go to the website and it’s the bucket ministry.org, vb bucket ministry.org. And there’s a plethora of information on there. There’s contact information, and you can it it for further information. Our phone number for our office is on there. You can reach right out, and we would love to share some stories and tell people about just this tool that God is using to reach the lost.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:31):
Well, Mr. Christopher, thank you for taking fresh water to people who need it and living water to those who need it. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. Thank you.
Christopher Beth (16:41):
Thank you, Daniel. Blessings.
Evangelism Podcast Host (16:43):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:45):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (19:06):
For more information about how to share your faith, or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Beat Baumann | The Go Movement
Beat Baumann is the International Director for the Go Movement. Their evangelism movement started when they asked every believer on earth to share the Gospel on one day named Go Day. Now Go Day has become Go Month and the Go Decade of Evangelism. The Go Movement is building a Global Evangelism Coalition of denominations, churches, and individuals who are committed to living a lifestyle of evangelism.
Learn more about the Go Movement: https://gomovement.world/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, brother Beat Baumann from the Go Movement. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (00:14):
Yeah, it’s a pleasure. I’m just very happy to be with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:17):
Well, I love the Go Movement. You have such a great focus on telling people about Jesus. Can you tell me a little bit about what the Go Movement does?
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (00:30):
Well, we do basically we mobilize believers to share their faith. They usually don’t do our mission statements and slogans says everyone can reach someone together. We can reach the world. So we are have the keyword word is everyone the founder Ben Antarctica from Germany. By the way, I’m from Switzerland.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:49):
Yeah, I’ve, I’ve interviewed Werner before. Yes, we were in Malawi. Had a wonderful interview. I just love his enthusiasm. Yeah. For sharing Jesus with
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (00:58):
People. So we’ve, we just mobilized ordinary believer to She the good news. We attend the local church and we partnered together on national level with national teams to do that, but also to reach the world in a 10 years time to, with other partners. So go move as three initiatives. It’s a lifestyle for evangelism, the go month in May to activate this, and then the yearly agenda. And the third one is the 10 years goal. The gold decade until 2030 free reaching everyone with the gospel. That’s what we are passionate about. And we are sort of a two stringing guitar. One is evangelism, pure evangelism, and the second one is we collaborate to fulfill the great commission and partner with fathers. And we are building a sort of a platform to work together, partnering with ministries. And it’s just wonderful. What, what is taking place?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:55):
So let’s talk about this first very important thing, lifestyle. Tell me, what does that look like in the life of a, an ordinary believer?
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (02:06):
It’s really depending a bit to the situation where they are, but I think in the western world, it’s in daily life to share the gospel. It’s good to pray in the morning, Lord, show me people that are open for you. And then you start the conversation, you make a compliment, you ask a question, and then in daily life, either with people you don’t know or people you already know, you just share your testimony or you share the gospel. And then I think in some places where they have more, a collective culture, lifestyle is more likely doing outreaches regularly as a church. So for example, in Karu, there’s a small group. They always go out after the church service since they heard about Go Movement, they say every Sunday afternoon you go for an outreach. So their lifestyle is that.
(02:59):
And some of the people, they’re really very ambitious. Like when Antarctica, the founder of Go Movement or Dave Gibson Grace Church in Minneapolis, and he, he’s also part of the global leadership team, and they do one a day, one a day every day sharing the gospel. Even if they’re on a Christian conference, they go to a dating app and starting to share the gospel to, to another guy. And, and then I think it’s so different. Some people, they prefer to, to share the gospel to people they know. Our African leaders, Stephen MuTu says, what you like to have your family in heaven and your friends, okay, in that case, share the gospel to them and, and others stay more likely go to people they don’t know. Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:43):
Yeah. I’ve interviewed Dave Gibson. I’ve interviewed Steven Matua, and so if you’re listening and you want to hear their wonderful stories, Steven Matua was crusade director for Reinhard Bonky for many years and has a vision for raising up evangelists in Africa. So those are such wonderful stories that we’ve had on the Evangelism podcast. Okay. So we’ve talked about lifestyle. Now let’s talk about the go month. What is the go month? And I, I know every year it’s the same month, is that right?
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (04:15):
It’s May
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:15):
In the month of May. Now, now in the secular world, they have pride month here in the United States we have Black History month, but you have decided that Christians should have a go month Yes. To share the gospel all throughout the month of May. Yes. Culminating in the day of Pentecost, right at the end of the month of May.
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (04:36):
Right. So we started finally with a go day. Earlier, it was called Global Outreach Day. The last Saturday in May, it was connected with the global deaf player. But then in the year 2020, we expanded. It took to five weeks in May and say most people we ask to reach five people one-on-one each week, somebody, and then that every church would do at least one evangelistic activity every week. And there are many, many different ways, for example, in Latin America that they have a main emphasis to say the first week and maybe pray for and with people. The second week is the week of the, of the compassion, practical help, pray care. Then the third week is personal testimony. The fourth public gospel proclamation and then of May, beginning of June is then disciple making and go, mom starts with prayer in most countries of the world, and we end with the go day where at least the most child, laziest and busy person also reaching at least one person with the gospel.
(05:37):
And then the last Sunday, in May, since about two years since a global church planting Sunday, we partnered with global s for church multiplication and others to say every church could be involved in a church multiplication. And Christians said, do all sorts of evangelism. It could be one-on-one groups, social media, go to an old school friend visiting somebody in a hospital, just a street outreach. There are that many ways that that’s such a diversity. Usually we train and mobilize and equip people before may. Then the month of evangelism comes, followed by a time of disciple making.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:14):
Let’s talk about the go decade. I think that’s really why we’re here together. We’re in the city of Phoenix doing a strategic planning meeting for the Go Movement with Bob Beal. And really there’s going to be a focus in the body of Christ on Evangelism over the next decade. And so I, I don’t think this only comes from the Go Movement. Many other different movements are talking about having a decade focused on evangelism. Dr. Billy Wilson from Oral Roberts University has talked about reaching everyone on Earth with a message of Jesus Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit before 2033, the 2000 year anniversary of the first day of Pentecost. Yes. And so tell me, what does the Go Movement hope to see happen over this next decade?
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (07:09):
Yeah, just to say there are about seven global movements. They have like similar approaches like ending Bible poverty, also with evangelism, then Rick Warren with finishing the task, and suddenly everyone is talking about 10 years to reach the world to work for towards, to fulfillment of the Great Commission. And we feel it’s God’s hand in it that he gave from the South Korean, the Americans, the European and others, just the same dream.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:38):
I I think that’s actually really significant because when the Holy Spirit speaks, he only, he does not speak only to one. Yeah. I think you hear the Holy Spirit speaking to different groups all saying the same thing. Yeah, yeah. At the same time, it’s like
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (07:54):
A confirmation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:55):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s so
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (07:57):
Beautiful. It’s so beautiful. And that also those movements now did align to one another. There have been different meetings, like Billion Soul Harvest from South Korea. God is using this Korean doctor to heal the body of Christ, somehow bringing the movements together to work. And then Dr. Billy Wilson and inviting at six December last year for a meeting. And then there was this paper I had myself on my heart, we should send out the paper to the world. And then we suggested to do, and now it happens. And now many people are signing this commitment to say, let’s intensify prayer with gospel, sharing even resources. Let’s work together, collaborate to see the world reached. So as Go movement, we are focusing on, on really collaborating especially on the national level. This year we are doing in a, in more than a hundred Nations, a national Go decade lounge meeting.
(08:57):
You’re asking national leaders, what, what, what are you in? Let’s, can we work together to reach the world in 10 years? And what’s your plan and contribution to reach your country and the world? We ask for both everyone, because we need one another. There are people in South Africa from Gibuti, or there are people from India. They’re, they’re all over the place. When you reach them, where they live today, we help reaching India. And so there is now a decade launch meeting, and we then go for the consultation building regional teams. And this goes along with what we do anyway with Month Co lifestyle. But we would like to see that. Now, there will be every year a meeting. There is also joint measurement platform, but basically we help to facilitate collaboration. On one hand, we’re sitting on the round table with other movements, global movements, that which is partner as one.
(09:52):
But with the Go Movement Network, we are connected on the global and national level. Then we see how to implement. And that means to see that ongoingly, we see more Christians sharing a lifestyle because if we, if where there are believers it will be, it will spread out. But then partnering with church multiplication, because if you think on Turkey right now we have like 8,000 believers among 80 million. So you need to plant churches. You need also to use media, sharing the gospel online, then going on a disciple making process. And which just in the beginning of a wonderful adventure that we see, God is bringing things together, like puzzle pieces. I think also the, the global evangelist network you part of it, which will be very significant. This group will help to equip worldwide the church as also doing crusades. We just, we are just so much on personal evangelism as Go movement.
(10:55):
But now we discovered that some parts of the body and some parts of the world at the public Gospels proclamation is still one of the number one things. So we believe reaching the world and every person needs to be one-on-one. It needs to be public gospels, proclamation, then media all together, combine it with prayer, combine it with church multiplication, then being very strategic in collaboration. So we are now in process to to partner together and say, where are the most unrich people? Do we have a task force for Turkey, one for Somalia? And then we are connecting people all over the world saying, who from Brazil has a special calling for this nation? And then we, we try to, to to go the way. And I’m so happy that I can testify that many global ministries have want to go for the hardest place.
(11:49):
Might it be the Jesus film, every home for Christ, even the people with the end Bible poverty sharing the gop, the Bible, home to home. They also talk about evangelism, church planting. And then they say, we want to go for the hardest places. And somehow God gave also there God is speaking and which is going, he step by step now implemented wherever we can on national level, partnering on global level, working together on strategic processes, praying like never before, dedicating our lives to it, inviting others to have ownership. It’s quite an adventure. I compare it to my personal, in internal picture is like doing a trail round together on a mountain peak. And I think we will be successful if it’s exactly 2033, if you really reached everyone, if this is even possible, I think the deadline will help us to accelerate.
(12:51):
But at the end, God is, is in charge. And we will see how far we will go with, with China with other places. But I gained more confidence. I, I should give you an example. There is one area in the world. I’ve been told two years ago, there is zero church. And now I figured out there are 6,000 underground house churches in the area where I’ve been pot told there is zero church, I can’t tell here because of security where it is. It’s one of the most persecuted area for Christians. And there are places in the world where we’ve been thinking there is nothing. It’s spreading peace and mushroom and God is moving, but God is also moving now that he’s bringing the Catholic renewal. Also, they said, we need to reach 2 billion people. And now the Catholic removal, they about 120 million born again.
(13:48):
They’re now want to reach the rest of the Catholic church. And they’re most amazed about Big Crusades, the people. And that’s their culture. And, and I see God is orchestrating in a wonderful way, different movement, different peoples. What we need to do, I think let’s just be focused on a task involving everyone. So inviting everyone here to be involved in the go decade. You see 2033 Earth or go decade world as the webpages and say, let’s be part of this great commission adventure. Can we join hands? At least we can do much more when we partner together. We could share resources, knowhow relationships, best practice. We can travel to a place we can connect people. And I, I’m just amazed about what is taking place. For example, in India, we see historic things taking place. And where I didn’t have the faith two years ago and now see it just happening.
(14:54):
And I say, my God, you’re doing it. And I think let’s just follow his footsteps. But let’s see, just taking India 700,000 local congregation, you have right now a half a million villages without the church. What would be, if all of those local congregations would just adopt one village we would have in 10 years time is really every village of India, a church That will be one step. Or let’s think on on the 40 million born again, believers in India, while that’s not that much, maybe compared to the 1.3 billion, but let’s sort of think on media. And some people they tell me, you just filtered and blocked. You come to media. And then I just encounter Christian vision. They do it every day. And I think we are serving a God who’s making the impossible possible. Amen. He has it more on his heart, the world to see the world reach than we have.
(15:53):
And now we will celebrate 2000 years of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And I believe by 2033, we can say, well, we could achieve by God’s grace much more by, by being devoted to this great commission. So I’m, we are inviting just everyone to partner. Let’s do the main thing. The main thing announcing the gospel of Jesus tries to every person. And then when this is achieved, seeing we making disciples and they multiply themself, planting churches, proclaiming the gospel, every we can helping people in a practical way. And God is just in control. There’s such a vibrant atmosphere all over the world. God is awakening the sleepy giant. It’s not what we see in his 37. It’s just taking place in front of our eyes that the army of God, the people are coming together. Everything is coming together.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:52):
Amen. Well, I so love what the Go Movement is doing. You are very close to the heart of God. Jesus said, go into all the world. And so that is what you’re doing. You’re preaching the gospel. Amen. If someone is listening and they want to get connected to the Go Movement, they want to be a part of the go day or the go month or the go decade, or they want to have the Go lifestyle, what is your website? What is a good way for people to get connected and to see the vision of what you’re doing?
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (17:22):
Yeah, it’s Go Movement world. It’s the webpage. Until you find some helpful resources. But still, it’s so easy. And now everyone who heard the month of May is a month of evangelism. Just do it. And then a lifestyle means we could start to share the gospel on a weekly base on a monthly base. I think at least once a month, a church should do an outreach. You meet every Sunday. We should also do once a month on outreach, when it’s about the lifestyle. We encourage really to say at at least once a week somewhere, I would like to have a meaningful conversation about the gospel. Let’s think about the hundred million to win. And if
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:05):
You’re really hardcore, go for the one a day every single day.
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (18:08):
Yeah. Then you can do that. And we believing on 1 million, let’s think about 1 million will share every day, and they will multiply to two others. If 3 million are doing every day, those people reaching 1 billion in a year with a $0 and everywhere in the world unstoppable, and this will be grassroots. So I think we will see it. I talk to Dave Gibson. He has now two free networks. They all three say, we wanna mobilize 1 million to share daily, but we will see, I know maybe it’s an average one day you maybe do, you don’t do, then another day you reach 10 people. But let’s think about on one on 1 million people having 365 gospel conversation in a year. And we could see millions doing that. And that’s what that it’ll be, it’ll take place. In the beginning when Go Movement started when an article said, well, if I, I could achieve to help to mobilize 1 million Christian. And then Mark Anderson from Coldwell said, you’re just much too small. You’re
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:17):
Thinking too small,
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (19:18):
Small, too small. And today we could, we can’t testify about a hundred million being active. Wow. People that never share now the due, some just once a year in May, but others now we see that with as a lifestyle. And yeah. So let’s just go for it. Let’s go for a lifestyle. Let’s let others know about the Goal Month because it’s a helpful catalyst for people that never shared in May. And then let’s work together in being very strategic. So everyone can be asked, what’s my contribution in my area? How can I partner with other churches and ministries if I’m living in interlock in Switzerland? So my my point is, what are we doing to reach our place and the world? So we also share the gospel to the tourists. We may be make a donation to other nations. We travel, we go on a mission strip. So everyone has his Jerusalem, Samaria, and the end of the world Acts one, eight. We receive power to be witnessed where we live and then in our country and the world. And I think, I believe sincerely, God has called every one of us to be active in, in those three fields if it does a lifestyle or if it’s as a as a 10 years plan.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:34):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Beat Baumann – The Go Movement (20:36):
Yeah, it’s a pleasure. Thank you, Daniel.
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Evangelism Explosion | John Sorensen
John Sorensen is the president of Evangelism Explosion, the ministry founded by Dr. James D. Kennedy. For fifty years Evangelism Explosion has been training believers how to share their faith and bringing people from unbelief to belief. Their goal is to multiply the number of believers sharing their faith by providing on-the-job evangelism training to people who will go on to train others.
Learn More About Evangelism Explosion: https://evangelismexplosion.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, John Sorenson from Evangelism Explosion, one of the greatest evangelistic ministries in the world today. Thank you so much for joining me.
John Sorensen (00:20):
Well, thank you. It’s wonderful to be here, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:22):
So let’s talk about Evangelism Explosion. I remember when I was young, I was wanting to learn about Evangelism. Well, this is when I was a teenager. Oh, wow. I I got a hold of your green book Oh, sure. Written by Dr. D. James Kennedy,
John Sorensen (00:37):
Dr. D. James Kennedy.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:40):
I went through that and I read all the illustrations about how to share your faith. And that really shaped the, the early years of my preaching, trying to lead people to Jesus.
John Sorensen (00:54):
Well, you know, he loved Dr. Kennedy, loved illustrations cuz he was, they said they were like windows. They allowed people to see in. And you know, I can tell you from my own experience that, you know, I’d been around the church my entire life. My dad was a preacher. I can’t even tell you how many sermons I heard in my life. And yet it was for me, right in the middle of the chair illustration, we used a very simple chair illustration that for the first time in my life at 26 years old, I understood it wasn’t merely knowing about Jesus that saved someone. It was putting your trust, like we’re trusting in these chairs we’re setting in now. This is an act that we took that moment of trusting in Christ. That’s when we’re saved. And and boy, what a difference it made in my life. I, I got up the next day and I, I didn’t even feel the same. I I was a totally different person and all from putting my trust in Christ. And, and you know what? I’ve been in that mode since. I’ve been trusting in Jesus firmly only holy and my life has been changed.
(01:52):
That’s awesome. So let’s start at the beginning. Okay. Tell me your testimony and how you came to Christ.
John Sorensen (01:59):
Well, again, my dad was a pastor. I was around the church my entire life. I was in church nine months before I was born every single Sunday. And and did all the kinds of Christian things that people do. I even went to Bible college to be honest with you, not too far from where you are in Joplin, Missouri, at Ozark Bible College. And I know there must have been quite a number of Christian around me, but I wasn’t a Christian. I had no idea how a person knew for sure that they were going to heaven. So for me, it was actually when a, a man asked me those two diagnostic questions, do you know for sure you’re going to heaven? And I said, no, I don’t. I don’t know that for sure. I don’t know anybody that knows that. And then he asked me the second question, suppose you were to stand before God this very night.
(02:43):
And he were to say to you, John, why should I let you into my heaven? What would you say? And I remember Daniel, I thought about it, it was a profound question. I knew it was, and, and I said, but you know what? I think my answer would be, I’m a pretty good person. I try not to do too much wrong. I hope that the good things that I do outweigh the bad things that I do. And that question is so critical, because what it did was allowed me to understand what I was trusting in to get to heaven. Yes. Right. Once he shared the gospel with me, because he had asked me that question, he was able to say, now, a few minutes ago you talked about a particular person. In your answer, it was, I’m a pretty good person and I try not to do too much wrong.
(03:21):
And I hope the good there was an I you kept, it’s you, you have a savior. His name is John <laugh>. What I’m telling you is there’s a savior named Jesus, and you need to put your trust in him. And so for me, that day, it, it changed my life. And so eventually God called me into becoming part of that ministry. Now, Daniel, I would’ve told you if ever there was a person that would never have qualified as a witness for Jesus Christ, I’d have been on that list. You know, I mean, I was sure I couldn’t do it. I had tried. And every time I had tried, I just made the person mad that I was talking to, you know, I felt like I was gifted at taking a normal person and turning them into somebody that was just hopping mad, you know, with only a few minutes.
(04:08):
And, and yet it was through EE that I learned that I can actually share the gospel with others. And so that same experience that you had and by the way, I think most Christians are in this boat. You know, I think I I’ve seen all kinds of statistics and some as high as 96% of people who bear the name of Jesus have never one time led another person to Jesus. Maybe they tried it worked out badly the first couple times, so they quit trying. And I’ve heard all kinds of reasons that Christians give. They’re afraid. Some say, well, you know what? I’m gonna goof it up for the next person. You know, I’m gonna, if if I try and then I’m gonna mess it up, and then I’ll just push ’em away. I won’t actually bring them toward, well, here’s the thing. This is the truth.
(04:49):
We as Christians actually can participate in leading our friends, our relatives, our work associates, our neighbors, and yes, even strangers that we meet, we can be part of, of sharing the gospel and leading others to Christ. And, and once we do it, to be honest with you, I can tell you that very first time that I was part of seeing, I can even tell you the guy’s name, I could describe the night you know, all the things about it. It was such an impactful moment in my life when God used me to lead someone else to Jesus Christ. And wow, that changed everything, you know? And in many ways, I would tell you, the ministry of EE has changed my life a number of times. The first in me coming to Christ, obviously that was a pretty big change. Secondly, in leading others to Christ, I never thought I could do that. And then thirdly, I found there’s even something more fun than leading people to Jesus until you might say there’s nothing more fun. Well, there actually is, there’s one thing more fun. And that’s training other people how to do that <laugh>. And when you start having spiritual grandchildren, spiritual great-grandchildren, when somebody, and again, I’ll tell you the, I can tell you the first time that my first trainee calls me up and says, I just let somebody to Jesus and listening to her excitement. And by
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:08):
The way, that sense joy that
John Sorensen (06:09):
Comes it, it is joy. And, and every single Christmas I get a letter from Marge. She was my very first trainee, her and another gal named Gwen. But anyway, every Christmas I get a letter and Marge to tells me every single person she has led to Christ this past year. Wow. And I get the joy of being, it’s, it’s like over 400 people at this point that I get to be part of, even though it was Marge who led
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:31):
Him to, can I share with you a testimony? So Sure. I have a son. His name is Caleb. He’s 13 years old. He just became a teenager. So we’re praying for wisdom, how to raise a teenager. Well on Saturday of this week, he went with one of my friends, his name is, is Ron Hood. And, and, and Ron has a great heart for evangelism. He took a, a truck, like a, like a trailer, and he wrapped it and it says
John Sorensen (07:01):
Two
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:02):
Are you going to heaven? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, two questions, reveal the answer. Yeah. And then he asks the same two diagnostic questions that someone asked you. And, and so anyways circuit writers from YWAM came to Tulsa and they’re doing some outreaches. And they were doing an outreach. And so my friend Ron Hood, he brought his truck to their outreach. And my son loves hanging out with his son. And so my son was sitting there in the truck asking every person who came by that, that two diagnostic questions. Awesome. And he was so excited. My wife was asking him, you know, what’d you learn today? He says, I can be an evangelist just like my dad. Dad is so and so. I’m so proud of him for being out there, sharing his faith. Yeah. Using those two diagnostic questions. Yeah. Which are a very simple method anyone can ask. And it just opens up a conversation, and then you can start to share the
John Sorensen (07:54):
Gospel. Amen. And they’re really not that hard to ask. And you know, we, we’ve got actually a number of what we would call questionnaires, questions you can put in front of those questions that, that make it very easy to have a ver just a regular normal conversation with a person that you meet. Turn that into a spiritual conversation through the use of just some basic questions like we learned. You know, you’re talking to somebody and, and they talk, they’re talking about their life. How’s your life going? What do you do? It’s very easy for you to say at some point in the conversation, well, it sounds like your, your life’s going pretty good. Or maybe you would say the opposite. You know, whatever it is you, whatever it is. And then you can say, you know what, I, I’m gonna ask you a kind of a funny question.
(08:34):
Scale one to 10, if you had to quantify your life, if 10 were the very best life ever, and one were the, the the worst life ever, where are you at today? And people don’t have any trouble answering the questions. I commonly hear 5, 6, 7. And you’re able to say, now can you tell me some of the things that make up that? Why is it a five or why is it a six? And they’ll tell you, usually they’re temporal that they mentioned, I’ve got a good job, you know, I’ve got this. I I have, I live in a nice house, you know, I’ve got a good girlfriend or whatever that happens to be. Yeah. But usually those are temp and you can say, but what that allows you to do now is you’ve started a conversation where now you can share a little of your testimony.
(09:11):
You can say, you know what the truth is, and think about this. It’s true. Before you came to Christ, you, you were a lower number than you are now. That, that you’re a Christian, whatever that is. And I can say, honestly, I used to be a one, but now that I, I know a guy shared with me this great news, I’m now a 10 every day. I know that sounds braggadocious, but it’s the truth. I used to be a one, now I’m a 10. Would you like to hear how that happened? I’ve never had somebody say, no, I’ve never, not one time. Wow. And so then I go, well, you know what, here’s what he shared with me. Five key things. And this is what you learned when you’re reading that green padded book. Yeah. There are five key. And you know, most people would say, traditionally, the gospel contains four things that, that really like it or not.
(09:56):
It’s, it’s truth that you have to hear and understand, respond to. Right. The, the gospel, these aren’t ee things. These are ju this is the gospel that everyone since Jesus’s ascension have agreed these four things. You have to understand where we are as humans. Right. The Bible says something very particular about us. It’s not all that complimentary. We’re sinners. We have all broken our relationship with God. Right. We’ve created this distance and divide through a thing called sin. You have to understand that now, you know, many people would agree they’re sinners. They don’t understand the scope of it, though they don’t get the degree in which they’re a sinner. The, the, the second thing that you would really need to understand is what’s God re God’s reaction to that? How does he feel about sin? Can’t he just push it under the carpet or something?
(10:43):
Well, no. Yeah. The very nature of God tells the city abor sin. And, and he, he, his his eyes are too holy to even look upon it. So that, that’s a real problem for us. On one hand, God loves us, but on the other hand, he cannot stand us sin. So what did he do? Well that leads us to the person of Jesus Christ, who he is and what he did. He is the God man. And what did he do? He came from heaven to earth. He lived an absolutely perfect life. He traded places with me. Right. This is the great substitute. And, and so that now I can be right before an all holy God, he took on my sin and died as if it were his own. It wasn’t his, but, and, and made a way for me to be right before God.
(11:25):
And then that leads us to the very final bit of that. If that’s all true, and it is, how do you get it? There’s, there has to be a moment when you appropriate that to yourself. And we understand from scripture that that’s called faith. And that’s that thing we were talking about when I put my trust in Jesus. That’s, that’s saving faith right now in ee we add a fifth item to that so as to not have to start the conversation on the bad news. You’re a center. You know, you can go try that right now. Go out on the street and just up to people and you are in a center, and you’re gonna find that some
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:56):
People, it’s a good way to start an argument.
John Sorensen (11:57):
That’s, it’s a good way to start an argument if you don’t wanna start an argument now, it’s, it’s, it’s true, by the way. It’s not an untruth. Instead start with the fact that heaven’s an absolutely free gift and it’s something that God wants to give to you. And so we start the conversation on heaven is an absolutely. So I was able to say, even in that first conversation, there are five things that I learned about how a person can know for sure. This is what changed my life from a, a one to a 10 was understanding these five things. And I’d say, say this, Daniel, you know, I’m, I am an extreme introvert, so I don’t your viewers, I, I don’t know. I’m sure that’s not what they think. It’s the absolute truth given the opportunity. I’ll go into a room and read a book every time by myself. So if God
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:43):
Can use an introvert like you That’s right. He can use anyway.
John Sorensen (12:45):
And that’s the truth. And, and, but it’s turned into one of the greatest joys of my life. And so I’ve decided to be different because I love seeing people come to know Jesus. And it’s become so such a an addiction for me. <Laugh> using that word in the positive way God has so invaded my life is to understand I can be used by him, he will he’ll use me. And that I get this immense joy of seeing people’s lives change. And there is no greater miracle. People love miracles. There’s no greater miracle than watching somebody go from death to life right in front of you. And I mean to tell you it’ll change some things.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:27):
Amen. And so one of the strengths of evangelism explosion is that you are training people how to share their faith. Yeah. Talk to me about that process and some of the results that you’ve seen. Yeah. From really equipping introverts and people who have never shared their faith before. How do you take someone who doesn’t know how to share their faith and and help them become competent Yeah. At talking to people about
John Sorensen (13:54):
Jesus? Well, the simple answer is through mentoring. You know, the model of EE is a one-on-one or a one on two discipleship model. EE is actually not an evangelism program. It’s a discipleship program where we’re discipling people in how to share their faith. Right. And so, if you are my training in ee, we’d go out together sometimes 7, 8, 9, 10 times, depending on which tool or product that we used with ee. But, but let’s say it seven times. And I can tell you, I’ve watched this happen thousands of times. The first time you don’t say anything, you know, I’ve taught you this basic outline that I just shared with you, grace, man, God, Christ, faith. And I’ve said to you, now, watch how I use that. Watch how I start the conversation. Just watch. And so this time you don’t actually have to say anything. We go out, we meet somebody, we have a conversation.
(14:39):
Maybe we’ve invited a friend to come join us for coffee. And and you watch how this happens. So then the next time I say, now Daniel, you saw what I did. Probably the shortest section that we did was on the, on God. It’s, it only takes about 30 seconds to say it. You, I’ve, I’ve shared with you what it is, the Bible verses you’ve learned them, the story you learned, the two main points that he’s loving. But also just, you know what, when we come to that spot, I’m gonna just say, you know what this comes into sharper focus when we understand what the Bible says about God. Now Daniel, would you mind sharing what it is that we know about God? And then you are just going to give it a go. And if you mess up, or if you start getting to the point where you forget something, just still look at me and smile and I’ll pick it back up and, and I’ll tell you what the nick, you do that.
(15:25):
Then the next time I say, you know what, just keep going. Go on into Christ and go on into faith. And, and I’m telling you that by about the fourth or the fifth time that we went out together in an incredibly safe way, because never were you put on the spot if you messed up, you just looked at me and smiled and, and I just picked it back up. Little by little, you would’ve picked up all of the pieces and learned to have that conversation. And so usually it happens around the fifth or sixth or seventh time, a person will look at me and go, I don’t need your help. I got this. I can do this. And so that’s the cool thing. And if I’ve given it to you in an understandable enough way, you can then turn around and pass it on to the next guy. And for us, this is called spiritual multiplication. And it’s the greatest joy that we as Christians get to have this side of heaven.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:14):
And now you’ve multiplied all over the world mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and, and you have evangelism, explosion people. And how many countries now? Well, we
John Sorensen (16:22):
Were the first Christian ministry to be in every single nation of the Earths Wow. Back in 1996. And we still are. And we have about 150 nations or so on earth that we are substantially working in every day. And the rest we do things in, but, you know, not as often or whatnot. But so he’s a and we’re in over 400 different denominations of the church. So that’s the, I love that the church can agree on the gospel and can can even go out together. We were just, we just did an event in Santa Ana, California, and I wanna say there were 12 different denominations that were there. And, you know, they’ve decided they’re gonna do their evangelism training together as a group, all these different churches and denominations showing up, learning to share the gospel and going out together.
(17:09):
And I just think that’s a hoot. I I love seeing that and kind of unity happen around the gospel. But yeah, so ee works all over the world, and we trained this past year just at 2 million people to be witnesses for Christ. Wow. Just at 2 million little over 900,000 children, ages four or fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, 9, 10, 11, somewhere in that range. And then about 1.1 million adults that we trained how to share the gospel. And and they went out. And in the process of going out, led 17 million people to Christ. Now here’s the thing. I cannot qualify, you know, you learned e ago use it all the time. That’s nowhere in my number. I I, there’s nowhere I can account Yeah. For people that were trained in the past, you know, that use it in their life, but you know, aren’t in some method to give it report.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:03):
Yeah. And at my home church, a victory church in Tulsa, Oklahoma, it’s an independent, charismatic church. We have an EE group. They go out and they tell people about Jesus. They love that. And just go into the apartment complexes nearby and knock on the door and, and, and start witnessing to people as
John Sorensen (18:19):
We Yeah. No, I’ve actually heard of, of this church, and I’ve heard stories about what God’s done through y’all for years and for a long time. And I praise God for you. Yeah. Thank you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:30):
Yeah. So I have a question. You know, times are changing very quickly. Yeah. And today’s generation still deals with the sin problem, but they’re asking different questions than we’re asked 50 years. Yeah. Or even 20 years ago. How are you navigating Yeah. Changing culture and, and changing media and the, the different landscapes of, of how to share the gospel.
John Sorensen (18:55):
Now, firstly, I’m gonna say this quickly, the gospel hasn’t changed and people haven’t changed. The lost really haven’t changed. Now they’re asking different questions, which is what a very good, good word that you said, lost are still lost. The gospel still is the only method by which lost people get saved. But period, full stop. And Jesus, when he stood on that hill in Galilee, looking out at all of the generations and all the lives, the, the people groups and the ages that would come, he’s the one that prescribed this idea to us. Right? And so we know it’s relevant, we know it’s valid. Now, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do everything in our power to be as culturally relevant as we can possibly be. And so, to answer your question, we’ve changed, we have a number of tools that we’ve developed through time. XE is a, a for, for generation X and Y instead of it being more of a legal argument which is kind of like what I’d heard, that’s far more of a relational argument based on John 10, 10, Jesus saying, I’ve come that you may have life to the full.
(19:55):
What does that mean to have abundant life? And what is it that stops us from having that? Well, we know that that’s when we have broken this relationship with God. And of course that’s called sin in, in, in, but we don’t talk about sin in the same way. Now I will tell you this, we’re in the process right now of developing a new tool for high school age today, and that’s forcing us to have conversation about identity and about, you know, all things that we’ve just never had to talk about in the past before. But that being said, please, anyone listening, please, please believe this is true when I’m telling you there’s an openness to the gospel today that we’ve never seen in 60 years of ministry. And so I would encourage people, do not believe anybody who tells you it can’t be done today. We’ve seen so in the history of ee you know, in the seventies, and you’ve gone out to do questionnaires out on the street, and, and typically if you would’ve approached 10 people, one of those 10 would let you share the gospel. This is the seventies. Do you know what it is today? It’s six out of 10 today. Wow. On the street.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:05):
And so that’s showing more openness in today’s generation towards
John Sorensen (21:09):
Than has ever been in the last 60 years of this ministry. And, and, you know, and we’ve proven that not just in places like the Southeast in America, we’ve proven that in, in, in the northeast. We’ve proven that way out west in the, in the southwest west and in the northwest part of the United States. We’ve done these Equiped America events all over the United States. That number rings true. We, we actually did a full on study with lifeway to see if it was just our experience, or if it was, if, if a researcher could find, and you know what they found? Six out of 10 Americans are open hearing the gospel. Wow. At 5.1% from an absolute stranger. They’re willing to hear it. But here’s the last thing that I, I, I would encourage Christians to understand. When we put the, i, the the idea into that study about them searching it out on the internet and reading a website, the, the interest in evangelism went down dramatically.
(22:09):
So it is this one-on-one, or it’s this personal explanation. The other thing that was in the study that really surprised us was that four out of the 10 that had come to Christ said they never would’ve sought it if somebody wouldn’t have approached them. That the point being, it was so critical that a friend started that conversation. Now, look, you, you can either believe what I said or not. It’s up to you if you’re willing to try it. All you have to do is to go up to 10 of your friends and ask this question. I just heard this crazy person today who said, six outta 10 people are open to having a spiritual conversation. And I, I just have to tell you as your friend, I, I’m, I’m a believer, but I’ve never thought to ask you if you want to have a conversation about spiritual things, are, are you open to that?
(22:59):
Just ask that question. And if you find that none of your friends are, well then, you know, I was wrong. If you’re seeing what, what we were seeing all across the country, you’re gonna see six of your friends go, you know what? I really would like to have that conversation. Now. Listen, ask good questions like your son was doing, Caleb, way to go ask questions and listen to their answers and then build on what it is that you’ve heard. And, and the most important thing is, as a believer, please be ready to share some of the things that are going on in your life that is why you are so in love with following God. You know, be willing to share testimony about what God’s doing in your life and, and how he’s given you joy and how he’s given you peace, and how he’s given you patience and, and you know, all these things which he promised he’d give you. By the way, if you don’t have those, you need to call us. And we’re gonna help you come to know Jesus. Because if you have Jesus in your life, he’s given you amazing things that you can talk about as you share your faith.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:01):
That’s awesome. Well, if someone is listening and they want to learn more from some of the resources that you have, or they want to get trained by one of the evangel evangelism explosion trainers, or maybe even to help support your ministry, what is your website? How can they access more information about
John Sorensen (24:22):
It? Well, that’s, that’s awesome. So if you come to evangelism explosion.org you’ll find all of our training tools and you’ll find when they, those trainings are, and you can kind of let us know you’re interested and we’ll connect with you. The, the study that I mentioned, we put on a website called equip america.org. So if you go to that, go down to the bottom, you’ll see the live way study. You can download the whole study and read it for yourself. Every single question we ask and what the answers were. And so, you know, and then every day I put tools up on a, a, another, a third website I’ll mention called Share life.today, share life.today. Every day I put tools up there like this week we’re focused on memorizing God’s word. Well, what would that look like? And how would you share that with a friend? Something like that. And so we’re constantly putting tips up there, just little encouragements about how you can share your faith. And so people can use those absolutely free. And our, we get joy when we see Christians become bold witnesses for Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:21):
That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
John Sorensen (25:25):
It is my joy. Thanks for doing the podcast.
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The Billion Soul Harvest | Young Cho
Right before he died, the founder of Campus Crusade for Christ, Bill Bright was talking about The Billion Soul Harvest. On today’s episode I talk with Young Cho about how James Hwang from South Korea has breathed new life into this vision to lead one billion people to Jesus.
Learn more about the Billion Soul Harvest: https://www.billionsoulharvest.net/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today, I have a very special guest with me, Young Cho, from The Billion Soul Harvest. Thank you so much for joining me.
Young Cho (00:13):
Well, thank you. Glad to be here too.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Well, tell me a little bit about the history of the billion Soul harvest and what the vision is.
Young Cho (00:22):
Well, I guess I have to talk about bill Bright when he first mentioned about the billion Soul harvest in 2002, not too long after he went to be with the Lord. And that vision kind of died down the way I understood it. And the just a few years ago, Dr. James Huang from Korea, he’s a crew man, or sis C man, and we say it in Korea. So that’s like Campus Crue for Christ, which is now known as Crew in America. And sis c is still going very strong in Korea. He was Asis c staff during his medical school, you know, years in Korea. So at his heart discipleship and Evangeline is very strong, and he’s a renowned guy in Korea being an oncologist CEO of a, an honorable hospital and the health supplement products. So, but then because of his, his dna he picked up that billion soul harvest idea and wanted to do something about it. Basically he wants to win at least another billion soul by 2033. And you probably know the importance of 2033, which happenss to be the 2000 year anniversary of Jesus’s crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, and Pentacost which gave the birth of church. So, you know
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:55):
I think that would be an appropriate birthday present to give Oh, yeah. To Jesus. Oh,
Young Cho (01:59):
For sure, for
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:00):
Sure. As a celebration of his resurrection.
Young Cho (02:03):
Yeah. And why billion? I think we’re not really limited to 8 billion songs. Actually the world is billion Soul instead of souls harvest billion begins with one soul at a time. So that’s the idea. But then still numerically speaking, we want to see at least a billion born again Christians. Of course, we want all people to come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. But by 2033, you know, having <inaudible> is always good, right? So, billion songs, because there are 8 billion people out there. And they say, Rick Warren out at our gathering last December, said there are about 2.65 Christians, but that includes Catholic, Orthodox, and all kinds of, you know, nominal cultural Christians and whatnot. So if you kind of, you know, trim down, it becomes about, you know, 1.2 billion Protestant Christians, you might wanna say 1.2, born again Christians. I don’t know. It depends on, you know, where, where you’re coming from. So and, you know, I think it is safe to say you got about a billion born again Christians, if you kind of consider the nominal Christians. So we want all rest of the 7 billion to be reached with the Gospel of Christ, but at least want to see another billion. So double the size by 2033, hence billion. So harvest
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:36):
Well, I say amen. This is a worthy goal to do for Jesus. So what are some of the strategies and the ideas that you have to accomplish this very large task?
Young Cho (03:49):
Yeah, it is, it is God-sized task, for sure. And we want God-sized task, right? That’s the only way we depend on God. And, and, and He’s the Lord of the harvest. We are not, and we don’t want to call billion soul harvest a movement. You know, we rather want to call it, at least at this stage, a vision, a vision of rich billion soul and making billion soul disciples. So, so far we’ve been really blessed to share the vision, casting the vision all over the world. So strategy is not that we actually win ourselves. It has to be really done by the body of Christ together. You know, billion soul is a big number, and even for me, in the beginning, billion soul, that’s such a huge number. How, how can you accomplish that? And I realized that it cannot be done by one person, one church or denomination for that matter of one, one country.
(04:49):
Either. It has to be done, it has to be done by the body of Christ together. Sorry, my voice is cracking up because I’ve been on the road for a long time. Anyways. So it is important to to have the churches’ denominations coming together. So what we do is we are creating a platform where different movement leaders and Christian leaders come together to share and to unite and to love one another as a body of Christ to reach the world. So in the past couple of years we had multiple global summits that have been quite successful, bringing all the continental or national, you know, global leaders from all around the world, despite, you know, during, you know, the fact that it was during the pandemic. And we had multiple, actually many, many b h or Pius Harvest gatherings all over the world in different countries.
(05:53):
Just this year we traveled 20 countries. So it’s really about casting the vision that every believer is a witness kind of what we hear at this hour. So we’re casting the vision, we’re bringing leaders together. We’re just inspiring and challenging, and recommitting to the great commission that we all agree. Anyways, and let’s do this together. We talk about four grades. One is great. Return two is great, harvest three is great unity, and fourth is great breakthrough. Whenever we go we talk about this four grades when we talk about billions. So harvest, because, you know, great return as you can imagine, and easily think, we’re talking about the return of Jesus, our king, the great return of our Jesus Lord. And we’re not saying that he’s gonna come back on 2033, that’s just an anniversary. But what we are saying is that there is a sense of urgency in our time that Jesus can come anytime, not 2033, but he can come today or tomorrow with everything that’s going on.
(07:05):
We live, we do have a sense of urgency, and we need to have a sense of urgency. And even revelation ends with marata, come, Lord Jesus, come. We want to see his kingdom established on earth. So we are in an ansys anticipation of the great return in a Bible says about the Great harvest, multitude too great to count, will be worshiping the Lord. There will be a great harvest, even matter chapter 24 14, you know, this gospel of the kingdom of God shall be priested to the whole world as a testimony to the nations. Then the end will come. Yeah. So before the great return, it will be preceded by Great harvest. So hence great harvest. And if I May 3rd you know, great is great unity, and I, as I said, it has to be done by the body of Christ coming together united and loving one another.
(08:02):
Because Jesus clearly said, you love one another as I have loved you. And when you love one another, the world will know that you are my disciple. It’s the greatest testimony to the whole world. You know, that we are God’s disciple Christ of disciples of Christ that there is God. It’s the craziest evidence. So great, unity is important, and we need to unite together. And we may be different here and there theologically, one not. But when it comes to saving, you know, winning souls to Christ, we got to do this together. We can agree on that. Amen. Amen. And so hence great unity. And great breakthrough is all about breakthrough, you know, penetration. And and we’re more focused on the prayer because every gospel movement is also preceded by prayer movement. And without prayer, we cannot do this. And there are strong holes out there, and actually strong holes are being broken everywhere by prayers lately.
(09:05):
And we see great harvest everywhere. I mean, it’s just amazing. So part of the strategy we feel important is that, you know, of course the the u PPG groups in Unrich people groups and all that, those are important. But what we see is that there are places that where God is working, you know, in a mighty powerful way. And we like to find the flame where God is at work. You know, I remember experiencing God, you know, you know, don’t try to bring God to where you are working. You go where God is at work, right? I like that. You know? So you know harvest one of the things that we really focus on is to fan the flame, pour the oil. Where is where there is anointing thing, because this world we live in is quite globalized. Our own backyard is the mission field. There are all kinds of up g groups, right in our own network or the you know geographical area of metropolitan. And, and so when you keep flame flaming the, you know, fire it’s going to reach and cover all nations and all ethnics and all people. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:26):
I think the Korean church has two great strengths. One is a commitment to prayer. There’s no church in the world that praise as long and as fervently, I think as the, the Korean church. And then the second is a commitment to missions all over the world. I run into Korean missionaries who are giving their lives for the gospel. So what role do you think that God has for the Korean church in this billion soul harvest and over this next decade of evangelism? What do you hope to stir up among the Korean church?
Young Cho (11:06):
Well billion soul harvest is not just for Korean missionaries. Yeah. But obviously, I, I I thank you for thinking and saying highly of Korean church. It is true that even at the very beginning of Korean revival the world mission was at, at the core of their heart. So now we have about 50,000 Korean world missionaries all over the places, including lay people. And so they’re everywhere. It, it just bodies coming together. But going back to billion, so harvest, it’s is really the visionary and the founder is a Korea, but is really not about Korea. It is really about mobilizing the national leaders on the field that they would own the vision of being a witness and being a evangelist to their own kind. Because as a missionary, we can only do so much, you know, with language and culture.
(12:14):
Even if you have 50,000 missionaries Korean and ethnic missionaries out there, they’re not gonna be able to do the task of, you know, winning all people to Christ, the local people, indigenous people, national people. They have to rise and rise up and shine the line of Jesus Christ to everybody. So it is important to empower those people. And, and maybe even as Westerners in, in Korean, a lot of people view as a resource country now we need to really empower and, and, and, and, and serve under so that they can shine, they can do the job. We can’t. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:58):
So if someone wants to connect with the Billion Soul Harvest and find out more about you, what is your website?
Young Cho (13:31):
Billionsoulharvest.Net We are based in Colorado Springs US and we have ASO Harvest International Leadership Institute where we train people. And so, and then we have global Summit throughout, you know, maybe one or two times a year. And then many, many national gatherings in the land. Just got back from Sri Lanka and Pakistan and, you know, India and, and <laugh>. I mean, I don’t have to list the names of the countries, but, oh, we are actually going around each country and people are signing up, joining in, in the vision owning up the vision so that they will do something about, you know Metro Chapter 28. You know, go make disciples of all Nations. Amen. Mission. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:22):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate it.
Young Cho (14:26):
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for bringing me here. God bless you. God bless you.
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Every Home for Christ | David Schaal
David Schaal is the USA National Mobilizing Director for Every Home for Christ. He works to help pastors and ministries equip their people to carry Christ everywhere they go. Today he shares his testimony about how he was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness but became a believer. We also talk about the statistics behind how Christians in America share their faith.
Learn More About Every Home for Christ: https://everyhomeusa.com/
Also check out: everyhome.org
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, David Shaw, from Every Home for Christ. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
David Schaal (00:12):
Hey, thank you, Dan. Appreciate for the invite. This is exciting. I, I too have that same heart excited about telling people about Jesus. So this is right up my alley.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:21):
That’s awesome. Well, tell me what your position is with every home for Christ and, and, and what you do.
David Schaal (00:27):
Sure. Well, right now, currently I am the USA National Mobilizing director. Meaning simply this is that I, I go out there and help pastors, help churches, help local ministries mobilize their people simply to, to live on mission, to carry Christ wherever they live, wherever they work, wherever they play.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:48):
And tell me a little bit about every home for Christ. I know it’s been around for a long time. You guys have a great history and have done a lot of evangelism. Kind of tell me some of the history and, and what every home for Christ is doing now.
David Schaal (01:03):
Oh, wow. How much time do we have here today? Because you’re right. I mean, I, I have the privilege of working for a ministry, I would say serving in a ministry that, that has really been carrying Christ to the nation, to, to everyone, everywhere and every generation. For now, I think 76 years. So we started out in 1946. And from that point, we, we just continually going and helping churches, helping believers with either resources or training on really caring Christ to the world. And, and that’s really, I would say, kind of in a nutshell of what we’ve done for a, as a ministry who we are, well, we’re simply, we’re a global network of local catalysts. So, so let me explain kind of what that means. We’re in a, we have 180 offices in 155 different nations around the globe. So it’s not like we’re a ministry that sends missionaries to go do the work. We, we come alongside local Catalyst indigenous church, and, and we, we simply help them mobilize their people. So whether, whether it’s in nations of Africa, whether it’s in the Middle East, whether it’s in Russia or where I get to serve right here in the United States, and we do the same thing. All, all the leaders around the globe do the same thing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:26):
Yeah. I I think it’s really neat. You, you really have a vision to reach every single home for Christ. And, and I’ve encountered your ministry in different countries that we’ve gone to. And so a few years ago, we were in the nation of Belize, and we did a 10 crusades simultaneously in the 10 greatest population centers in Belize. And I got to meet your national director there, Derek Pitts.
David Schaal (02:51):
Oh, my good buddy. That’s my buddy Derek
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:53):
Pitts. Yes. And, you know, he just came alongside the vision that, that we had to people for Jesus and, and served and helped provide literature. And we were able to take that literature into homes, into schools. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> distribute it all across the nation. And you helped to recruit Derek.
David Schaal (03:13):
Oh, <laugh>. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:14):
Like, tell, tell me a little bit about that and like, like how you first started that relationship, and then how you’ve been developing leaders in the Caribbean.
David Schaal (03:23):
Well, you know, when I I, I started off with every home for Christ being a, I was a local pastor here in the US before we really had a US focus. So I was a local pastor, but served the ministry of every home for Christ as the Caribbean coordinator at the time. So trying to, to go in and help churches within the, the Caribbean to, to establish the every home for Christ ministry. I mean, what we do is we, we inspire and empower the church to carry Christ to the world. So we wanted to be in every Caribbean nation. One of my trips brought me to the nation of Belize, and just through a series of events I was able to meet Derek. And Derek was a young man at the time. I, I look at him, I don’t know if he would look at me as a spiritual father, but I look at him as a spiritual son, just a, a great leader, a a man full of passion. A a man has such a great gift in this and, and a heart to really reach the law. So when we went into the nation, we found somebody that, that really had a, like mind, had had a, like vision like purpose in life. It was able, just really easy to get behind him and, and really kind of train him and, and teach him and equip him. And he, he took to the leadership and he’s doing such a great job in the nation of Belize.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:35):
Yeah. He, he has become such a wonderful man of God. All right. So you’ve now transitioned from the Caribbean to more of a focus here in the United States. Correct. And so tell me some of, of what you’re trying to accomplish here in the us.
David Schaal (04:51):
Well, simply, I would put it this way, we’re, we’re, again, we’re, we’re doing the same thing. We want to in inspire and empower the church really to carry Christ to the world. That means right here in the US as well. So the way that we do this is we bring pastors together. We believe in serving the local church. We believe in coming alongside pastors and helping pastors and, and outreach leaders to really equip and immobilize their church. So we bring pastors together. We, we, we love on pastors. We, we, we share with, give him a good meal, but at the same time, we share with them the history of things that we have learned and, and, and really how to equip their local church. So, for one of the things that we’ve did a, a nationwide study, we partnered with the Barna group here in the us did a nationwide study simply looking for the, the common practices and the perceptions that the local or the everyday, I would say Christ follower has not, not the evangelists like you and I. Okay, sure. We were talking about the everyday Christ follower. Like what would it take for them to, to share? Are they sharing their faith? Are they if so, what’s working? If not, why not? So we did a huge study. So when I bring pastors together, we kind of relay the kind of the results that study. We, we, we share with them some of the findings we’ve had. And and then,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:10):
And what, what are some of the, the findings? I mean, the Barna Group is the, the gold standard. They are in doing Christian research. Yes. They do such a great job with their research questions and, and, and very valuable insights. Every single time I get a chance to see one of Marna’s research projects, I always purchase it and get ahold of it. Great. Because it, it really gives insights into today’s generation. So, so what are some of those insights that you found in your research?
David Schaal (06:37):
Well, this will, so we, we want to know what the, what the common practice and perceptions were. Yeah. So the perceptions, like, you know, and I think, I think if that there’s a maybe a belief out there in the church that, you know, Christians are anti evangelism, right? They don’t, they don’t want evangelism or they, they’re not doing evangelism for whatever reason. So we wanna know, is that true? You know, not just an assumption, but is it true? So, yeah. So Barna did this complete study, and one of the questions they ask is really, really telling. They ask, do you, and if you do, how often do you pray for an opportunity to share your faith? So they ask the everyday, Christian, are you praying for opportunities? If you do, how often? 72% of those surveyed responded that they pray at least once a month to share their faith.
(07:24):
Wow. Oh, that’s exciting news. Yeah. 40% of those said that they prayed daily for that opportunity. You know what that tells me, Daniel, it tells me the church is not anti evangelism. They’re praying for opportunities to go out there and to share their faith. Another question we asked was like, what are you willing to do? Are you willing to pray for somebody? Are you willing to show hospitality? Are you willing to share your own faith story? We had about four or five different things they asked. And in every one of those things we asked, what is the Christian willing to do? They were either very willing, willing, somewhat willing, or not willing. Very willing and willing was in the high 90 percentiles on all of that. Which, which for me, I was excited. Cause I’m thinking that’s the bride of Christ. They, they want to brag about the bride groom, right. That they, they want to share their
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:13):
Faith. Yeah. That’s actually good news.
David Schaal (08:15):
Oh, it’s great news. And,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:16):
And, and for the church, you know, sometimes people think of, of Prosci slys in negative terms. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like, oh, I don’t wanna shove my beliefs down someone’s throat. Okay. Yeah. But I think if you were to like, are you willing to share your faith story mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, then people are much more willing.
David Schaal (08:34):
Exactly. Exactly. So to do that, now, check this out. There’s another question. We said, okay, well, how often are you doing it? Or if the opportunity came up, would you share your faith? So remember, 72% are praying for opportunities in the high nineties are willing or somewhat willing or willing to do different activities. But 85% of those said that they allow a barrier to keep them from sharing their faith. When the opportunity comes. Now, to me as a researcher, that there’s a gap there. Wait a minute. You have these people praying for opportunities, they’re willing to do this, but when the opportunity comes, 85% said they don’t do that. So we went a little bit deeper into that and said, okay, well what, what are some of those barriers? So in this survey, simply 15% said they would not allow a barrier to stop them.
(09:27):
They would share their faith. The 85 picked a certain barrier. So the top three barriers, I think are very telling. Number one, the number one barrier with simply this, is that the, the believer did not want to be come off as confrontational, pushy, argumentative. And I get that. I mean, I don’t want, I’m not, I don’t wanna start an argument with somebody. Yeah. So, so whether taught or caught, they, it would, they’re understanding they didn’t wanna argue evangelism, right? So, so they, somewhere they thought that the participating in evangelism, you gotta call people out on their sin. You gotta tell. And, and you mentioned that that’s not good news. Now, please understand, the whole reason that Jesus came was cuz of the sin issue. So, I mean, we gotta deal with that at some point. But, but we’re saying, well, does it have to be at the genesis of the conversation? Does it have to be the very first thing you share with somebody? Do you, do you have to have a script that tells you this is the way you have to do it? Or is it a bride bragging about the bride groom? Yeah. The number two barrier.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:27):
And I like in Romans too, it says that it’s the goodness of God that draws men to repentance.
David Schaal (10:31):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:32):
Yeah. So if you start with the goodness of God, yes.
David Schaal (10:34):
It’s so good. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:36):
Good. It draws people to, they want to have a relationship with Jesus.
David Schaal (10:39):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I love it. And, and, and it’s, it works. I mean, it, it really, it really, really works. The, the number two barrier was simply this and get this, the, the believer didn’t share their faith. The barrier was this, that they didn’t feel qualified. Now we went a little bit deeper. This is the word that came out in the interviews, the word shame. That they were ashamed. They weren’t ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. They knew it was the power of salvation. They were ashamed of their representation of the gospel. Meaning, how can I go and share my faith with my coworker Dan when, when Dan knows that I have an anger issue, or I struggle with lust, or I fill in the blank. And so simply what they’re saying is they didn’t want to be a hypocrite. How, how?
(11:21):
I don’t want to be a hypocrite, so I’m not good enough to do that. The third barrier was this, was that they didn’t know what to say. They didn’t know how to communicate without being pushy, confrontational argumentative and or hypocritical. So as a ministry, that’s what we’ve done in the US is we, we we’ve developed, understood what these problems are, these gaps. And we developed training that a local pastor could use to train his or her church on mobilizing them, overcoming these barriers. And, and that’s what one of our biggest in helping the local church in America. And we have found time, after time, after time, this is the result after an individual goes through, through a training. I didn’t know this was evangelism. If that was ave I would be doing that every day. And it’s like, yes, go out now. Please hear my heart.
(12:10):
Yes, we gotta take care and we gotta deal with the sin issue. Matter of fact, the Bible tells us the Holy Spirit does that. The Bible tells us in John I believe it’s chapter 16, that the Holy Spirit will convict the world according to sin, righteous, and judgment. Right. We just need to introduce them and bring the presence of holy spirits in their life by what you’re saying, sharing about the goodness of God, sharing them how good evangelism. I would say this is not telling people how bad they are, but it’s telling people how great Jesus is. And if the church would do that, and they’re willing to do that, think about how we would just kind of move that needle of the church. It wouldn’t be 85%, if we get to 85% just out there bragging about Jesus, just think of, of what that would affect the church, but not only the church, but the lives of the individuals who are living right now to a christless eternity. If they understood that there was a Jesus that loved him, that Jesus cared about them, that, that, that they’re not the objects of God’s wrath, but there’s a subject of his love. Oh, let me tell you the church, we have a great message to share.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:12):
Yeah. Amen. Well, I I go do large evangelistic crusades in different countries around the world, and so many different religions are represented. I never say anything to attack the local religion. I just lift up Jesus. Yes. Yes. And I think that when people see how good Jesus is Yeah. They will be attracted to him. Exactly. Jesus said, if I be lifted up, I will draw all men on me. That’s right. That’s right. And, and, and so, you know, I start by telling them, this is what Jesus did in Bible times. And then I share some testimonies. This is what Jesus has done in the lives of some of these people. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I share my testimony. This is what Jesus has done in my life. You’re sure. And then I tell ’em, this is what Jesus can do in your life. And by the end of the message, my goal is to make Jesus irresistible so that people cannot say no to Jesus. Exactly. Because I think when people see Jesus for who he is, it, it just opens up their hearts. Right. And, and then they’re, they’re quick and, and ready to say, yes, Jesus, please forgive my sins. Yes. Because they see, wow, Jesus died for me. He really gave his life so that I could have life.
David Schaal (14:15):
Yeah. You just shared my testimony. I mean, that’s, that’s my testimony. I was raised at Jehovah’s Witness. Wow. So, so I, I was in a realistic, this is
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:22):
Very legalistic.
David Schaal (14:23):
Very
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:23):
Legalistic. Works driven. Very
David Schaal (14:25):
Works driven. Yeah. You had, you had to go knock on doors. You had to sell, watch channel wake magazines. We went to five church services a week.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:33):
In fact, when I flew into Phoenix here mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to yesterday at the airport, I saw some watch tower people there with a,
David Schaal (14:40):
You know, why they’re doing that? Because that’s them earning their way to heaven. They don’t understand the grace of Jesus Christ. They don’t, they don’t understand. It’s already been paid. It’s already been paid. But people ask all the time, David, how did you, what, what scripture? What track? What, what did they say to you that caused you to lead the Jehovah Witness religion and become a Christian? And you know what? I can’t think of a track. I can’t think of a scripture. I’ll tell you another thing they didn’t do. I do not remember my friend Tracy, my friend Mike. I had many friends in high school, but Tracy and Mike shared Jesus with me. I can’t remember one time they told me I was a bad person, and it was, I had sin in my life. No, I did. Don’t get me wrong. Right. But they never called me out on it. You know what they did? They made Jesus irresistible till I got to the point that said, how could I not say yes to this Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:32):
Wow.
David Schaal (15:33):
That’s evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:35):
Praise God. Yes. And, and so walk me through that process. How did you go from being a Jehovah’s witness to finally saying yes to Jesus?
David Schaal (15:43):
Well I, it was, it was it, it didn’t happen in one conversation. Yeah. my entire senior year of high school, I, I think my friends who were Christians that, that I’ve been going to school with all since elementary school, I think they realized, Hey, we have one year left with David, so let’s, let’s kind of, whenever we get an opportunity, let’s share Jesus with them in some way. Somehow. some of it was very positive. Obviously I’m a Christian today, others of I had one of my classmates, she wrote this in my, in my senior yearbook. David read a real Bible <laugh>, you know, now was she speaking truth? Yeah. I need to re read a real bible cuz Joe Woodes had their own Bible. But that probably wasn’t love. I can’t say that that convinced me to, to look more into Jesus Christ.
(16:27):
But my friend Mike and Tracy, any opportunity they had, they continually, over time, over time, a process of multiple conversations. I, I would, I would be, be guessing, I would say hundreds of conversations they had with me about my faith and been them sharing me about their faith and what Jesus is doing in their life till the end of my school year. So probably nine months of senior year in high school where I just got to the point that said, I, I need, I, I need this. Jesus. You see, I saw peace. I saw contentment. I saw joy. I saw the fruits of the spirit in, in the life of my friend Tracy and, and her family. No, I didn’t know. I couldn’t call it out. What I did know was they, they had something I didn’t have. And I wanted it, and I wanted Jesus. Then Tracy said, was Jesus. I’m like, well, then I want that. And as soon as I said yes to Jesus, I started feeling that same joy and that commitment and that peace in my life. So that, that’s what we’re called to do. We’re called to share Jesus to, to those that God’s put in our world. And I praise God, Tracy and Mike did that. And, and, and I want to make sure I do that to as many people that God puts in my life as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:33):
Yeah. Let’s talk about how you help churches and pastors. So you were a pastor mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for many years before you, you started doing what you’re doing now. And if, if you, if a pastor came to you and say, how can I get my to be more evangelistic? Like, I want the people in my church to, to be bolder at sharing their faith. What are one or two things that you would share with the pastor
David Schaal (17:58):
Today? Only, only one or two <laugh>. I have a list of here, you know with the ministry of Very Home for Christ, we, we have, we have training and resources that, that we would, we, we give at, at they, they cost a lot of money, but, but we, we give at no cost. We really wanna serve the local church. Somebody, we have generous donors that say, Hey, let’s, let’s mobilize the American church. So we, we, we pass that on to the lo. So that’s one area. But, but I would say this, what what really works would be a, a couple things. One would be the pastor needs to share his or her experience in, in evangelizing outside the church. So when I pastor, there’d be many times I would share during an announcement time, Hey, let me share you with you.
(18:43):
What, what, what happened this week? Hey, I met a, I at the grocery store this week. I encountered this person or whatever. Yeah. I would share my experiences because the, the congregation is gonna mimic what the pastor’s doing. Yeah. So if the pastor is not, I would say the first thing for pastor is Pastor, you need to be out there living on, living on mission, sharing your faith outside of your pulpit ministry pastor. You need to be out there doing it, and you need to share that. The second thing is that I would have people every week on Sunday give a testimony of what their activities were. So somebody would come to me, Hey, pastor, I prayed with my class week today. Hey, today at church, I just want you to take 30 seconds. I want you to tell the church you did that.
(19:26):
And what that did is that showed that we made it, well, what we made that as an important aspect that this is what church is about, where about equipping the church, do the work of the kingdom. And so we’d have people come up and give testimony. Children, elementary school, high schoolers, college age, I mean, adults, whoever came to me and said, Hey, I wanna tell you what I did. Hey, you’re gonna tell the church today. But the other thing is this, is that we didn’t just chair the victories. Hey, this person said yes to Jesus. Hey, I got to pray with this person. Person would come to me at church, say, oh, pastor, I tried evangelism. As a matter of fact, I I was talking to my class today, and they all laughed at me. I said, you know what? I want you to share that with the church today.
(20:08):
You see, I think we got to a point in the church where all we did is share the victories and the wins. And not every time we share faith is there gonna be a victory or win. So what we celebrated wasn’t victory wins. We celebrated obedience in the church. So we would have people sharing stories like, oh, I tried this, but it fell flat on my face. But at least I tried. And we would clap for them. We would cheer them on because we wanted to celebrate obedience in the church. And the more you create a, that’s how you create a culture of an evangelistic culture in your church, is by giving testimony, sharing stories. People want to hear stories, not they need to hear their pastor stories, but they need to hear other people’s stories, both the highs and the lows. Because what that does, that makes a person say, oh, I could do that.
(20:53):
Yeah. And or if I, or if they fail, oh, it’s all right, so-and-so failed too, but, you know, I’m gonna give another try. So those are just a, a couple of the things that, that I would really encourage the, the church. But you need to, you pastor you, you need to make it a priority. If you’re not making it a priority, your church is gonna make it a priority. We make a lot of things priority in the church. And, and whatever you’re best at in the church, you, you may have the best worship team. That’s your priority. You, you may have the greatest offering because you make a priority of offerings. You want an evangelistic church, you want a church that’s winning the loss. Make winning the loss a priority in your church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:30):
Yeah. Amen. And I think every church should have that as a priority.
David Schaal (21:34):
Sure. I agree.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:35):
Well, if someone wants to get connected to every home for Christ, or they want to take advantage of some of the, the resources that you offer, or even to help support you guys, how can they find out more information? What’s, what’s your website? Sure.
David Schaal (21:49):
The, the website is very easy. It’s everyhome.org that, that’s our global international ministry website. And, and that will take you, give you opportunities to see what’s happening around the globe. So we spent the most of the time talking about kind of where I work, and that is in the US and how, but,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:07):
But overview kind of, of what’s happening in other countries too. Well,
David Schaal (22:10):
You know, globally, I mean, like I mentioned earlier, we’re, we’re in 155 nations probably have 180 offices. And, and like I mentioned before, we’re, we’re, we’re a global network of local catalysts, meaning that the, the work is going and, and pastors all around the globe are, are being equipped to be catalyst to carry Christ to their world. So, so many, I say we have 155 offices, offices, we may have 155 different ways that we’re carrying Christ around, around the globe. But, but it’s continuing to grow all the time. What we’re, we’re seeing people let me just say this. Numbers are big and, and things like that, but, you know, we’ve been around for now 76 years, but prop, approximately 334,000 believers every month are carrying Christ to the world through the ministry of every home for Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:06):
Wow. That’s amazing.
David Schaal (23:07):
It is amazing. I mean, I, I’m just, it gives me goosebumps. Sometimes you see a big number like that, you’re like, wow. But you know what? We need more. We, we, the, the, the church, we, we need everybody to come on board and participate in the mission that God has called us to the, the Great Commission, which I call, it’s our common mission. And that’s what God’s called us to. So everyhome.org is our, is our global national headquarters website for the ministry right here in the usa. It’s everyhomeusa.com. So you can go to everyhomeusa.com and you could see kind of the things that we, that we have as far as pro what we produce for, for churches, specifically for pastors. Because we believe this, we, we wanna stand behind a pastor. I could go to your church just like you can, Dan, we could go to church.
(23:55):
We could, we could encourage, we could train a church on how to evangelize that church gets excited that day until the next Sunday when they have another guest speaker. Yeah. Encouraging you something. But if the pastor trains his or her church, it now becomes the pastor’s vision and now becomes the culture of the church because the pastor led it. We’re big believers and come alongside that, that local pastor inspiring and empowering that pastor and the church to carry Christ to wherever they’re at. And that’s really what we do around the globe. So without going into detail, every little nuance, that’s kind of the bottom line. We, we inspire and empower the church to carry Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:43):
That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast.
David Schaal (24:47):
I Appreciate it. Oh, I appreciate the invite. Thank you so much, Dan. God bless you.
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Calling All Great Commission Workers to Amsterdam 2023 | Ashley Wilson
In June of 2023 there is going to be a massive gathering of evangelists, missionaries, pastors, and people who care about the Great Commission in Amsterdam. You are invited to be at the table and lend your voice to the effort to reach EVERYONE on earth with the Gospel. Today I talk with Ashley Wilson from Empowered21 about this amazing event and why you need to attend.
The questions we talk about:
What is Amsterdam 2023?
Who should come to Amsterdam 2023?
How can someone register for the event?
What is Empowered21?
What is the Holy Spirit doing in missions over the next ten years?
Be a part:
Come to Amsterdam 2023: https://amsterdam2023.com/
Join the Global Evangelist Alliance: https://globalevangelistalliance.com/
Connect with Empowered21: https://empowered21.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Ashley Wilson. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (00:11):
Hey, Daniel, I’m excited to be here and, and glad to talk about evangelism and what God’s doing with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Well, we are very excited about what is coming up because in Amsterdam this June 21, 22, 23, and 24, there is going to be a gathering of great commission, believers, evangelists, pastors, ministers from all over the world coming together in Amsterdam. And this is going to be one of the most significant historical events that have taken place in the body of Christ probably in my lifetime. Yeah. And so tell me a little bit about what God is going to do in Amsterdam.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (00:51):
Yeah, we’re really excited about what’s getting ready to happen in the next few weeks. I want to say if you’re an evangelist listening to this podcast, you need to be in Amsterdam, June 21st through the 24th. If you can’t get there, then make sure that you block out some time during those dates so that you can join us online as well. But it’s gonna be a gathering of several thousand great commission focused leaders, evangelists, missionaries, pastors from all over the world, talking about what we can do to get the gospel to every person on earth in the next decade. 2033 is going to be the 2000 year anniversary of the crucifixion, the resurrection, the ascension, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. And we believe that it’s possible to complete the Great Commission or fulfill the great commission by getting the gospel to every person, all eight plus billion of them on Earth over the next decade. If we work together, I think we can do it. And so we’re gonna be talking about that, praying about that collaborating with one another around that topic in Amsterdam. And I think it’s gonna change the direction of the church for our generation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:06):
Now, this initiative is led by the Global Evangelist Alliance, which is a, a group of some of the greatest evangelists that are alive today. And the Global Evangelist Alliance is under Empowered 21, which is a gathering of spirit empowered believers who believe in the power of the Holy Spirit and believe that the Holy Spirit is needed for world evangelism. And so tell us a little bit about the history of Empowered 21 and how the Global Evangelist Alliance was launched and how this whole plan for Amsterdam started being birthed. Sure.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (02:47):
So in Power 21, really the genesis of it happened around 2006, which was the hundred year anniversary of the Asuza Street Revival. When we gathered leaders from all of the different streams of Christianity that could trace their roots back to Asuza Street, gathered them together to celebrate what the Holy Spirit had done over the first century since the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Asuza Street. Fast forward a couple of years, and there were some changes at Roberts University happening, and a number of leaders who were involved in that change said, you know, what’s the purpose of Oral Roberts University? And from that they said, you know, the purpose of this place is to be a, a a a, a vessel of leadership for the Pentecostal and Charismatic Church around the world. So they begin to have some discussions. They begin to talk with a number of these leaders who had been together at the Asuza Street Centennial in 2006.
(03:45):
They said, what is the whole, we know what the Holy Spirit did over the last century, but what does the Holy Spirit want to do in our century? What is he calling us to do together? And out of those conversations, they came up with this vision, which I believe really is the, the heart of God, which is for every person on earth to have an authentic encounter with Jesus through the power and presence of the Holy Spirit by 2033. And so Empowered 21 is a relational leadership network that brings leaders from all the different streams of the body of Christ who believe in the power of the Holy Spirit, brings them together around this vision. Can we get the gospel to every person on earth by 2033? And so that’s what we’re trying to do at Amsterdam.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:31):
Now, in the early years of the Pentecostal movement, going back to a Zeus street, Pentecostals suffered from a lot of misunderstanding and even persecution sometimes where people thought they were a little weird. Well, fast forward to today, and the Pentecostal charismatic spirit empowered movement is the fastest growing movement in the entire body of Christ. And now there are millions of spirit empowered believers around the world, and they are on the forefront of what God is doing. Evangelistically, I love going and doing crusades in, in different nations. And, and at our crusades, we preach that Jesus Christ is the same. Yesterday, today and forever the same Jesus who healed people 2000 years ago can heal people today, the same Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of Pentecost can be poured out on people today. And we see God do tremendous miracles, tremendous signs and wonders.
(05:37):
And because of that, a lot of people get saved and the churches grow. And we found that around the world, especially in the the majority world Africa, Asia, the churches that are growing are the ones that believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. They’re casting out demons, they’re praying for the sick, they’re praying for people to be filled with the Holy Spirit. And, and so there seems to be a transition in the body of Christ that to towards an acknowledgement that we need a fresh move of the Holy Spirit, if we’re really going to fulfill the Great Commission, we need the Holy Spirit. Yeah,
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (06:17):
I think you’re absolutely right, Daniel. And you brought up some good points. You know, Todd Johnson from the Center for Global Christianity at Gordon Conwell he says that there’s approximately 650 million and that data’s a couple years old, but 650 million, what we would term spirit empowered Christians in the world right now. So from from zero at approx, you know, a few handful at Asuza Street in 1906, fast forward a hundred and, you know, 15 years later, and there’s 650 million. So this is the spirit empowered movement within Christianity is one of the fastest growing movements in history. Religious movements in history and what’s happening around the world is explosive. The truth is the formula of the Book of Acts works when you believe that God is breaking in and intervening in people’s lives, and that he can heal, he can deliver, he can set free, that Jesus is who he says he is, and he can do what he says he can do then the Holy Spirit breathes on that.
(07:22):
And God does amazing things. And so that’s why we’re seeing this explosive growth. And the truth is, when you think about the number of people on Earth today, there’s 8 billion plus. We went over the 8 billion number in November, according to the United Nations, 8 billion plus. My dad likes to, to say, if you tried to count to 8 billion starting from the day you were born and never stop, to take a breath, to go to the bathroom, to have anything, to eat, to sleep, you could count for 120 530 years and still not reach 8 billion. Just trying to count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. There’s a lot of people on planet Earth. And the truth is to reach them is gonna require a variety of different strategies. But we believe that the Holy Spirit is creative enough that he’s gonna birth inside of us and birth inside of his church and inside of his people, all of the different ways and ideas and methods that are needed to get the gospel to every person on earth, from the Wall Street millionaire in New York City, to the child who’s living on a trash sheep in Manila, Philippines, Jesus died for each and every one of them.
(08:35):
And we believe God is gonna give us the the ability to reach them with the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:41):
And the work that Jesus did on the cross to bring salvation to all of us is really the, the heartbeat of Amsterdam 2023 and what God is going to do there. And so, let, let’s talk about Amsterdam 2023. What are some of the things that are planned? Who’s coming and why should people do everything they possibly can to get there? Yeah. And to participate? Yeah.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (09:05):
Well it’s gonna be really a who’s who of leaders from all over the body of Christ, not just in the Pentecostal and charismatic stream, but a number of our evangelical brethren are gonna be joining us serving with us the Palau organization, the Billy Graham organization’s gonna be there. Christ for All Nations is gonna be there. Rick Warren is gonna be there. Christine Kane is gonna be there. They’ll be over 150 key leaders from all over the world who will be speaking and sharing in general sessions and in workshops. But all of that’s gonna happen over the first three days of the event when we’re at the Rye Convention Center. But I really believe the heart of the meeting is gonna happen around round tables. We’re gonna have collaborative sessions every day where leaders will gather with people from their region who speak their language and will talk about the themes of the meeting and how they can contextualize that into where they live.
(10:03):
So we’re gonna talk about this vision of reaching every person. What does that look like to re personalize the Great commission? You’ll gather with people around round tables and talk about that. We’re gonna talk about what are new strategies that are emerging, new methods of evangelism, and how can you use those in your context? And then we’re gonna talk about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. You know, I’m a a dad of three teenagers. I don’t understand what my teenagers are saying half the time because they speak a totally different language and operate and think in a totally different way. If we’re gonna reach every person on Earth, then we have to know how to reach Gen Z and Gen Alpha. And so we’re gonna talk about that in these collaborative sessions where you’re meeting with leaders from around the world. Then we’re gonna take those sessions, the input that you give us from those round tables, and we’re gonna compile that and come up with some trends to say, okay, this is what we see the Holy Spirit is doing. This is what the Holy Spirit is saying around these issues. So I think it’s very important if you’re a leader of any capacity that you’re there in the room in Amsterdam, so that you can have some input into this process as we talk about reaching every person on Earth.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:17):
Yeah. One of the benefits I think of going is going to be the relationships that are going to come out of this, because you have so many like-minded people coming together in, in one place. The people you’re gonna meet, the, the friendships that are going to develop relationships are the currency of the Kingdom of heaven. Just yesterday, I was talking to a friend from Pakistan, and I’ve done some crusades with him in Pakistan, and he was asking me, you know, why should I come to Amsterdam? What’s, is this just another conference? Cuz he goes to conferences from time to time. I said, no, this is gonna be much more just a, a conference. This is going to be an event. And it it really is something spiritual that happens too. Back in 1983 mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, the Billy Graham organization hosted a big gathering in Amsterdam.
(12:08):
And at that time, they brought thousands of evangelists together from around the world. And in that meeting in 1983, really set the tone for what God has done. And now this big event Amsterdam 2023 is almost to the day, 40 years later from what God did through Billy Graham and is his heart for evangelism. And I remember when I was a young evangelist, I found a big book mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that Billy Graham’s organization had put out with all of the different sessions from some of the, the great evangelists from 40 years ago. And that book really impacted my life as a young evangelist. I was gonna say, man, I wish I could have been there just listening to the heart of all of these great men and women of God talking about God’s heartbeat for the world. And, and so at this Amsterdam event 40 years later, I really feel that this could set the tone for what God is going to do in a new generation.
(13:09):
It’s a new era of evangelism, it’s a new time of, of evangelism. The the heart of God is the same, but the methods are different now. We live in a completely different world. The challenges we face are probably even greater than the challenges that they faced 40 years ago. But I think by coming together and talking and building relationships and hearing about what God has put on different hearts and different organizations, that we’re gonna see an amazing synergy that’s gonna come out of this for especially this next decade leading up to 2033, the 2000 year anniversary of the day of Pentecost.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (13:47):
Yeah. you know, Daniel, you, you, you know the history well, I also had that compendium from the 1983. I got it when I was, I think 22 years old. Someone gave it to me. And I flipped through that over the years many times. It’s a, it’s a great resource. What Graham did in 1983, and then they had another meeting in 86 and another meeting in 2000 was groundbreaking. And I believe it set the direction for the church in the previous generation from those grand meetings really came a lot of the impetus around unreached people groups focusing on the 10 40 window, focusing on unreached people groups. And I personally believe that that was the challenge for my father’s and grandfather’s generation. But for my generation and your generation and the generation of my children, I believe the Holy Spirit is raising the bar.
(14:43):
It’s not enough just to reach the nations of the earth, but I believe God is also interested in reaching each person on earth. That’s why Jesus said in Matthew, go and preach the gospel to everyone. That’s why Paul says to Tim, to Timothy, I want prayers for everyone because God, our savior wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. And so I think what is happening is we live in a day and age when it is possible to get the gospel to every person on earth, but it’s gonna take a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit and it’s gonna take us collaborating together. And so what’s gonna happen, I believe in Amsterdam, is the Holy Spirit is gonna raise the bar. He’s gonna raise the target for our generation, not just every nation or every people group on earth, but let’s get the gospel to every individual on Earth in the next decade.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:40):
And that is going to be an amazing initiative, everyone on Earth. It’s a, it’s impossible in human thinking, but with God all things are possible. Absolutely. And I think if the body of Christ comes together and, and starts thinking, how do we reach everyone on earth, that God will give us the creative ideas to make it happen, and it’s gonna take the entire body of Christ working together, collaborating together, celebrating one another, and the Empower 21 and the Global Evangelist Alliance as, as part of this 10 year effort to reach everyone on earth, we’re going to be targeting entire nations. We’re talking about next year going to El Salvador. Yeah. And reaching every single person in El Salvador. And so I brought this vision to my home Church Victory Church here in Tulsa. And they said, oh, we want to send 120 teenagers from our school to come down to go into the schools to minister to the people in El Salvador. And so the whole purpose of this is to mobilize from the youngest to the oldest, the entire body of Christ to, to go out and to lead people to Jesus.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (16:55):
Yeah. And, and I’m super excited about where I, I see God leading us over the next 10 years. You know, the g is taking great leadership in this process. And, and you know, we could, we could choose a country every quarter and still not get anywhere close to being finished with all the nations on earth over the next 10 years. But I think what the GE is trying to do is to set a catalytic example to say, okay, we as a team are gonna collaborate together and we’re gonna take this nation and we’re gonna say every person in this nation is gonna hear the gospel over the next year. And so I think that’s an amazing example. And what’s gonna happen, I believe as we go through the next decade is God’s gonna touch the hearts of people all over the world, and they’re gonna grab that vision and say, what’s it gonna take for me to get the gospel to every person in my neighborhood, to every person in my city, to every person in my nation, to every person in the places where I live and work and have influence.
(17:58):
And as that happens, we’re gonna see God begin to move. And then I, I also believe there’s gonna be people that are be challenged to say, okay, what does it look like to get the gospel to people who have absolutely no connection to Jesus and no way to know about him. You know, when we’re talking about getting the gospel to every person on earth, the real challenge for us is gonna be China and North India, to be honest. I mean, those are the places where there’s billions of people who have not heard the name of Jesus. And so I think one of the things that’s gonna happen out of Amsterdam is God’s gonna really inspire some creativity in people and put some seeds in people’s heart that are gonna help us get over that hump and help us reach those people with the gospel in an accelerated fashion as we head towards the 2000 year anniversary of of Christ’s sacrifice for us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:47):
So if you are excited about the Great Commission, if you are a leader or a future leader in what God is doing here in the world, I encourage you to go and sign up to come to Amsterdam 2023. The website is Amsterdam 2020 three.com. And I’d also encourage you to check out the global evangelist alliance.com because by joining the, the ge, the Global Evangelist Alliance, you can get connected to all of these big evangelism initiatives that are going to be taking place over the next decade. There’s some great resources, therefore, evangelist, we’ve got an Evangelism masterclass with many of the greatest evangelists that are live today teaching on evangelism and, and equipping people on how to witness how to share their faith both to one-on-one and to the masses of people. And then if you wanna find out more about Empower 21, go to empower 20 one.com and you can find out more about what the Holy Spirit is doing around the world.
(19:55):
But the main thing I’d encourage you to do right now, go to Amsterdam 2023 and Amsterdam 2020 three.com and sign up to come to this amazing event that’s gonna take place in Amsterdam, June 21st, 22nd, 23rd, and 24th of 2023. It’s coming up really quickly and, and so, but there’s still time for you to get your plane tickets, to get some hotels over there. Come to this massive gathering of great commission believers because we need you at the table. We need your ideas, we need your contribution to the discussion of what God is going to take place, and I think it will do something significant in your life.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (20:39):
Yeah, absolutely. And thank you, Daniel for for allowing me to share today. And if you’re listening to the podcast, make sure that you, you find me at Amsterdam 2023 and say hello. It’s gonna be an amazing gathering of, of people who are on fire for Jesus and excited about reaching every person on earth with the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:01):
Ashley Wilson, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (21:04):
Podcast. Thank you, Daniel.
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Buddy Bell | How to Build the Helps Ministry in Your Church
Buddy Bell loves being the “Pastor’s Friend.” He is the world’s foremost expert on helping churches to build their ministry of helps. His passion is to activate the body of Christ to serve. If you need help training your ushers, greeters, or your nursery workers, Buddy Bell is the minister to call.
Learn more about Buddy Bell’s Ministry: https://mohi.org/
Buy Buddy Bell’s Book on the Ministry of Helps:
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Dr. Buddy Bell loves being the pastor’s friend. He is the world’s foremost expert on helping churches to build their ministry, of helps. His passion is to activate the body of Christ to serve. If you need help training your ushers, your greeters, or your nursery workers, Buddy Bell is the minister to call.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:39):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now, here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:04):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And today I have a great friend with me, Dr. Buddy Bell. Thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Buddy Bell (01:19):
Good to be here, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:20):
Well, you and I have been friends for quite a while now. And the thing that I love about your ministry is that you love helping churches help people. Amen. And building the helps ministry. So tell me, how did you get started in helping churches build their helps ministry?
Buddy Bell (01:42):
Well, I think the big thing was realizing that I was in the ministry of helps. You know, my wife and I were involved in church and, and back then, no one had ever heard of the Ministry of Helps. And we were you know, people would say we were strange, we were weird, we were different. They told us, you know, God broke the mold when he made us. And I remember one day in church on Sunday morning, my pastor at that time opened up the first Corinthians chapter 12 verse 28. And he began to read it. It says, in God has set some in the church. And I thought, well, you know, that’s where I want to be. I want to be in church. I just don’t want to go to church. And it goes on. It says, first apostles, secondary prophets.
(02:31):
Thirdly, teachers after that miracles, then gifts of healings. And then he said, helps. And he stopped. And for 60 seconds, he expounded on the ministry of helps. And I sat there in church with tears in my eyes, and I said to myself, you know, buddy, you’re not weird. You’re not strange. You’re not different. And God didn’t break the mold when he made you, but the mold is still in the Bible. And I found my place that day in church. I was in the ministry of helps. And and so that began to, you know, develop on the inside of me. I be begin to s you know, seek more information on the ministry of helps. And because, you know, like one Mr said to me, you know, people want to see their place in the Bible. You know, am I on the team or am I just sitting in the grandstand watching the game?
(03:33):
People want to be in the game. You know, am I really important? You know, my, my greatest reward, I guess traveling and teaching on the ministry of helps is, and I’ll never forget her, this nursery worker walked up to me and she had tears running down her cheeks. And she, she said, you know, brother Bell, I really didn’t thank God, knew I was back there in their nursery. And I’ll never forget her. And, you know, and, and people think that, well, you know, I, I just work in the nursery, or I’m just an usher, or I’m just a, a greeter, or I, I just do what Pastor once done. And they don’t realize how valuable and how important they are. I mean, if it wasn’t important, then why did God, that created the heavens in the Earth set into the church helps. You know, there, there’s a rumor going around the world today that, that Buddy Bell made up this ministry of helps.
(04:32):
I didn’t make it up. I read my Bible, you know, and I, and I see I have a part in the body of Christ. I’m valuable. I’m important, you know the definition. Now, if I get preaching, we’re gonna take an offering <laugh>. Okay? But the definition for the ministry of helps is the Greek definition. It’s as one of the administrations in the local church by way of rendering assistance, or especially of help minister to the weak and the needy. So if you’re rendering assistance in any way in the church, if you’re giving help to the weak and the needy, you’re operating in this supernatural ministry. The ministry of helps. Now, listen to me, it’s a ministry as just as valid, just as anointed as if God had asked you to be a prophet. I think I heard an amen out there. Amen. Maybe a couple amens out there.
(05:25):
Amen. Why? Because God is not a respecter. We’re in this thing together. You know, I thank God for prophets, but also thank God for nursing workers and ushers and greeters. You know, I’ve <laugh>. I’ve had people, when I get done ministering on helps will take me off to the side. I don’t know how many times this happened. And they say, now, brother, buddy, I want to ask you a question, but I want you to be honest with me. Like I’ve been lying to ’em the whole time. You know? And they, but I want you to be honest. Nobody’s around, you know, but you’re really not that excited about nursery workers, are you? I say, excuse me, I’m gonna back up. The wrath of God is coming in here. You know? And, and I see it on people’s faces when I’m teaching on the ministry of helps. You know, do, do, do you really believe that brother buddy? Well, let, let me help you out. When I look at a nursery worker, I don’t see a nursery worker. I see Jesus. When I look at an usher, I don’t see an usher. I see Jesus. When I look at a prophet, I don’t see a prophet. I see Jesus. And that’s why I can be excited about every member and every part of the body. Cause I’m excited about Jesus. Amen. All right.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:41):
Amen. Amen. Let you do something. Well, I think your perspective is so valuable, cuz sometimes when people think about being in ministry, the picture that comes to mind is the fivefold ministry gifts. You got the apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the pastor, the teacher, and they envision a platform ministry where someone’s up on the platform. And, and a lot of people are actually scared to do public speaking or get on a platform. They, so they say to themselves, oh, I could never be in ministry. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But what you’re saying is that you can totally be in ministry by finding a place to serve in the house of God. Amen. And by helping out with what needs to be done, because the pastor is not the only one called to serve the Lord. Every single believer can find a place to help in the body of Christ. Amen. Would you say that’s
Buddy Bell (07:35):
True? Daniel? You used the word just a moment ago that I don’t use. Okay. And because it’s a word that causes division within the body, and that word is fivefold. I don’t believe in the fivefold. Okay. You can’t find it in the Bible, that word. You know? And so I tell people, I’m in the sevenfold now I’ve got you on that one. Cause seven is God’s number and what’s the other two helps in governments. But then that don’t leave anybody out. Okay. And so, I, I I don’t use that word fivefold. Okay. And because when you said it, you know, there was a division there, you had a group that was up on the platform, and then the rest of of us over here, you know, we all want, we’re all, we’re all in this together, you know? And so you know, I, I just don’t use that word, <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:29):
All right. Well, I will amend my vocabulary. Yeah. And, and I actually agree with you. I, I think helps is a, an extremely valuable ministry in the church. All right? So let’s say you, you go into a church, right? And you’re, you’re helping their, helps ministry, challenging people to serve the Lord with excellence. I’ve heard you talk some about King Solomon and the excellence that his helpers serve the Lord with. Talk. Talk to us a little bit about that.
Buddy Bell (09:00):
Yeah. When the Queen of Sheba and from Ethiopia visited her, him, you know I point out the things that she noticed, okay? And you know, a lot of, a lot of times we don’t realize when people walk into the church that they see things and they’re moved by what they see. Okay? She was moved by what she saw. She saw the food the, the, the meat on the table. She saw her, the building. She saw the ministers and their apparel, the cup bears and their apparel, the way he carried himself in, up into the house with the Lord. You know, 85% of communication is done through body expression. You know, you ever had anybody ask you, Hey, what’s wrong? And they go, well nothing. Well, you need to tell your face cuz your face is telling everybody that there’s something wrong. You know? And so, you know, I, I talk about ushers, that they affect people’s giving by the way. They, they come down the aisle with the buckets. You know some of ’em look like they’re in a funeral. You know,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:08):
If an usher is me, no one wants to put anything in that offering bucket right here. Throw, put your, put your offering in there.
Buddy Bell (10:15):
Right? And, and, and some do that, some think, well, maybe we shouldn’t be taking an offering right now. They don’t have to say nothing. You can see it, you know, when a pastor has to coax them to come down for the offering, okay, we’re, we’re gonna have an offering here. Okay. You know, God loves a cheerful giver, a hilarious giver. Gonna need some ushers ushers Fred come on down, Fred. Come on, Fred. You, you can help out. You know? And, and, and like, we’re trying to coax them in, into giving, okay? When they ought to come down for smile on their face. Well, Daniel, how come they don’t smile when they come down? I’ll tell you why. They’re not givers themselves. I wouldn’t have a non-GI person as an usher in the church. A actually, I wouldn’t have a non tither as an usher.
(11:04):
What, what, what an honor to stand up and say, now we’re getting ready to take your offering. And these people that are serving as ushers, they’re all tithers in the church. Wow. You know, had, have one usher said to me, well, you better not look at the, at the giving records, you know, if I’m a Tyler or not. I said, listen, sheep are not dumb. I said, we don’t need to look at the records to see if you’re a ti or not. We have our ways of finding out, you know, when we’re down at, I help afterwards, you know, we’ll bring up tithing and notice how quick you change the subject.
(11:40):
So we, we, we don’t need to look at the books. We’re all in this together. We all have a part. We’re all, we’re all valuable. We’re all important. The ushers, the greeters. I’ve seen people get at the door when they walked in. I saw this one gentleman when the greeter reached out to grab him, and he fell on his knees. He said, my God, I need Jesus. Well, doesn’t he know he is gotta wait till the end of the service? That’s when we give the altar calls at the end. You know, first church I was involved in our attitude in the ministry of helps us. We’re going to get everybody saved. Everybody healed. Everybody set free before church. And if we miss any em, pastor can pick, pick him up at the end. But in a lot of churches is well, they see how many pastor can pick up at the end.
(12:29):
You know, where we, you know, were, we were, we were evangelizing at the door and the nursery, you know I tell a story, you’re gonna get me going on the stories here. A mother came to the nursery and worker and said I just wanna know something. What did you do to my baby last Sunday? I, I, I, when I picked up my, my baby and I took her home and I put her in the, in her bed, she immediately went to sleep. She never goes immediately to sleep. What did you do to my baby? And so the, the nursery worker had an opportunity to share Jesus with her. She went out front at, in the service, and at the end, she raised her hand and got saved. Now, was it the sermon or was it the, the nursery worker that realized, this is not a babysitting service back here, but this is a ministry. And she ministered to that mother that morning, and that’s why she got saved.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:31):
Yeah. When you think about a new visitor who comes to a church, Uhhuh, <affirmative>, he drives into the parking lot. He sees the parking lot attendant. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> helps him park his car. Then he walks in the front door, there’s a greeter there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then an usher helps the person to find a seat. Maybe if they have kids, they go drop their kids off at the nursery or mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in the children’s ministry. So they’re looking around trying to figure out where they’re supposed to take their kids. Yeah. Finally, they, they get in, they’re the, the usher helps them find a seat. And people are there and, and say, Hey, that’s my seat. I sat in that pew every Sunday. What are you doing sitting in my seat? Right? But, and then somebody greets the crowd, and then you have the praise and worship team get up, and then maybe someone receives the offering. And you can be 30, 40 minutes into the church service before they ever see the pastor, hear the pastor. And probably by that time, they’ve already decided whether they like the church or not, whether that would be the type of church that they would want to be a member at.
Buddy Bell (14:35):
Right. The experts say that first time visitors will determine within the first six to seven minutes if they’re going to return or not to that church. And who do they meet in the first six or seven minutes?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:49):
Usually not the pastor. He’s back there in the, the green room on his face before God praying, probably. Yeah.
Buddy Bell (14:56):
They meet, they meet the parking lot attendant who park it over here. Stay between the lines. Grab your kids’ hands. We need speed bumps out here, nursery, I don’t know where the nursery’s at. Find somebody’s got a baby and follow them. And then they walk in and they see the greeter, you know shake hands with the people in front of ’em there and hug them. But when they walk to the door, the, the greeter just happened to turn and not shake their hand or greet them, you know? And then they go on down the hall and they go to the nursery after they find it, you know? And the nursery worker looks at him and said, oh, no. And not another one. Man, I need some help back here. I hope you brought some clean diapers. I mean, you know, some people bring their babies in here and they don’t bring extra diapers, and they expect us to supply them extra diapers.
(15:48):
And then they, they leave there and they, they go down to the, the youth room. And the youth leader comes out and said, oh, you’re new. Well let me explain some things that go on down here in the youth ministry. We cast out devils down here, and if your little boy’s got a devil, we will cast it outta him. And then they come on down the hall and, and they walk into the sanctuary. Now I’m talking about typical churches. Okay? And they walk in the sanctuary, and the ushers and the elders are holding up the back wall, you know, for six days. And six nights. The back wall stands by itself, but it becomes a seventh day. It takes all the ushers and all the elders to hold up the back wall, you know? And, and they just say, well, just, just find a chair somewhere, you know? And so they go, they, they sit down, you know? And and then they watch the, the worship team and the, and the musicians. They’re up there arguing which song they’re gonna sing. Now, would you go back to that church? Would you go back to that church?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:52):
Not that church. No. Actually, I probably preached to that church one time.
Buddy Bell (16:56):
<Laugh> <laugh>. I’ve been in a lot of those churches. You know, I, I have, I’ve been in a lot of those churches. But what if, what if they walk in or drive into the parking lot and, and the parking lot attendance out there. He’s got a smile on his face. He welcomes them to the church, you know, and it says, Hey, you know, the door is right over here. You know, the greeters are at there. They’ll help you if you got questions. They’ll show you where all, where your children need to go. And the greeters there got a smile on their face, you know, they find out they’re new. See, greeters should be walking information booths, you know. So they take that family and they take them down to the nursery. They introduce ’em to the nursery worker and let ’em know that they’re new here.
(17:41):
You know? Then they take ’em down to Children’s Church and they let ’em know that they’re new. And then they take ’em up to the sanctuary and tell the usher, these, these people are new. Well, knowing that the usher’s gonna make sure that they have a real good seed up front so they can see everything, hear everything that God wants for them to hear, you know, tells ’em more about the church, tells ’em to get excited. You know, our pastor’s been into Word, he is been teaching this series. I mean, it’s really, the people are really excited. Now, you tell me you’re gonna come back to that church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:14):
That sounds like a great church to go to.
Buddy Bell (18:16):
And there are churches like that. Yeah. There are churches that like that. And and so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:21):
And so when you go into a church and they’ve asked you to, to help their ushers, help their greeters, what are some of the things that you say to them to, to help them to be the very best ushers and greeters and ministers that they can be?
Buddy Bell (18:40):
Well, the most important thing, again, is to show them and teach them about the Ministry of Alps. Once, you know, it’s hard to teach someone something if they don’t realize how important it is. And they are okay. And so, you know, the, the f the very first thing is to teach them, you know, the importance of the ministry of helps. But also, you know, I’m not just there for people that are serving, but the leaders need to understand it. Okay? People never go beyond their leadership. However, the leadership is in the church. That’s the way the people will be. You know, a a lot of times it, it’s not the people’s fault, you know? Pastor said, well, I can’t get anybody involved. Well, my first question is let me talk to your leaders. Do they believe in the ministry of Hels?
(19:42):
You know, do they realize how valuable the people are? You know, that their ministry is a, is a supernatural ministry. Do they understand that? You know, and so, I, I always say, let me talk to your leaders. You know, let me, let me minister to your leaders and show to them how valuable the ministry of helps is, and that it’s an important ministry. You know? And they need to get that across, you know, <laugh>, you I had a a minister years ago when I was young. And he asked me, he said, brother Bell, you ever listen to yourself preach? I said, oh, no, no, no, no. He says, you need to listen to yourself. Preach. There’s two attitudes in preaching. There’s a want to attitude and a half, two attitude. He says, we all know we have to. He said, but Brother Bell, what’s missing in people is the want to, you know, we tell ’em, you have to be saved.
(20:44):
You have to, you know receive Holy Spirit. You, you have to, you have to. You have to. When we ought be saying to, no, you want to get saved, you want Jesus in your life. You want to serve God, not you have to serve God. You know? No. You want to serve God. You want to be every, everything that God wants you to be. You wanna do all that God wants you to do. You know? And, and that’s what’s missing before a lot of people. And so, you know, that’s one of my main goals when I go into a church, you know, is put the want to back into people because they, all they’ve been hearing is the have to, you know, when I go to a church, I guarantee a pastor. I guarantee him that 10% of the people that are in front of me will step out and want to serve God that have never served God before.
(21:39):
I guarantee it. It happens everywhere I go. If there’s a thousand people in front of me, over a hundred will come forward. That’ll want to serve God. People want to serve God. And you’ll never talk me out of this. Every Christian, every Christian, deep in their heart desires to serve God, but they’ve never been told, you know, that cleaning the church being a greer, being an usher, going on an evangelism trip with Daniel King Ministries, you know, and carrying your bags, you know, helping to set up the, the music the sound, you know, at, at your meetings. It’s a ministry. It’s a ministry. It’s just as important as you standing up there and ministering the gospel of those people. Because if you had to go and do everything that you just did, that happened in your trip in Ethiopia, y you wouldn’t have done it.
(22:37):
You, you, you couldn’t have done it. Okay? But you had a lot of people around you, a lot of people doing other things, you know, and they weren’t in front of the people. Okay? But they’re valuable, and they’re important, you know, every member, every part of the body, you know, no matter where it is, okay? You know <laugh>, if I was to reach inside of you right now and pull out a part of you and showed it to you, you know how you would react? You would react. Like some people, some people react when they see people that walk in the church. Oh, no, what’s that? You know, where did that come from? But if I told you it came from you, what would be your first response?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:22):
I need that.
Buddy Bell (23:23):
Right. Put it back. Put that
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:25):
Liver back. I need that
Buddy Bell (23:26):
Liver. Yeah. You didn’t ask. Yeah, but you didn’t ask me what it was. You didn’t ask me how important it was. You didn’t ask me how it helped other parts of my body. But when you found out that it was part of you, all you knew was it must be there for a reason. It must be there for a purpose. And that’s the way everybody is in church. You’re there for a reason. You’re there for a purpose. Maybe I don’t understand you. Okay? I don’t realize right now how important you are, but you’re part of the body, and I need every part of the body.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:03):
Yeah. When we were just in Ethiopia, one of the most important team members we had was, was someone who was just taking pictures. Yeah. Because without those pictures, you can’t tell the story back home of everything that, that God did. And so I had a, a wonderful man of God who came and, and he was just servant taking pictures and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you’d never taken pictures before. But I put a camera in his hands, I think God can use you. And he, he captured some good ones. And then thinking about Ethiopia, they traced their spiritual heritage back to the Queen of Sheba. Yeah. And so, the, the fact that to this day in Ethiopia, there are people that credit their spiritual heritage all the way back to the impression that the Queen of Sheba had with the, the people that attended to King Solomon. It shows the importance of the ministry of helps.
Buddy Bell (24:55):
Yeah. When I was my teaching that I do called winning first time visitors, and I talk about the Queen of Sheba and everything that she noticed, you know, and while she was there, there was a, a young lady that was sitting on the front row. I was in San Francisco, and she was really into this teaching. I, she was saying, Hey man, she was rocking back and forth in her chair, you know? And so when I got done, she walks up to me and she says, brother, buddy I don’t know if you noticed this, but I was really into your teaching day. I said, well, yeah, it was pretty noticeable. She says, you know why I said, no, why I am from Ethiopia. And the Queen Shiba was responsible for bringing the teachings of God to our country. And that’s why I got all excited about that. Amen. But I, I, I teach that. I’ll go into a church to show everybody just how valuable and how important they are. Let me let’s see if we can find it here somewhere in my Bible.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:01):
I like your Bible. It’s full of marks all over the place. You know what they say? Dirty Bible, clean living, clean bible, dirty living. Yeah.
Buddy Bell (26:09):
But I, I wanna, it’s falling apart. And I, I’m wanting to go get a new Bible and but it’s all marked up, you know? And you know, so I don’t know what I’m gonna do. But you know, one of the things that you know, I tell people this now. I, I say this, curiosity is the number one evangelism tool in a local church. People think that they’ve got, you know, people say, well, you know, I, I, I can’t get people to come to church. Well, you just told me something. You don’t talk about your church outside of the four walls. I said, you know, you don’t have to preach the people to get ’em to come to church. You don’t have to quote scripture. You don’t have to act spiritual around. Just talk about your church. Talk about what’s going on, what’s God is doing in your church.
(27:05):
Cause sooner or later, their curiosity is going to peak. Okay? And, and what’s go, what happens to ’em is the same thing that happened to the Queen of Sheba. She says, how be it, I believe not their words, until I came and my eyes had seen it. And behold, the one half of the greatness of thou wisdom was not told me for the exceeded the fame that I had heard. So somebody was talking outside of the four walls, you know, and she’ll, she, she said, well, I just got to go see it with my own eyes. But there was something else that she experienced, okay, while she was there that she would not have experienced if she hadn’t went. She says, happy are thy. Amen. And happy are these I servants with stand continually before the they hear thy wisdom. The spirit of the place touched her, even though she saw all these different things.
(28:04):
Okay? It was the spirit that was, everybody was happy. And then she said, blessed be the Lord I God. Now I tell people she got saved. Now I know nobody can get saved in the Old Testament, but it’s a type in the shadow of the new. She said, there is a God. Now, I don’t believe an unsafe person should have to go to church five or six times to realize that there is a God. They can realize it in their very first visit, just like the Queen of Sheah. And then she makes his statement, this confession. She says, blessed be the Lord thy God, which delight indeed set the only throne to be king for the Lord thy God, because I God, love Israel to establish them forever. Therefore, many king over them do judgment and justice. What a statement. From a first time visitor, there is a God, you’re a man of God. This is the house of God. God’s hand is upon you in her first visit. And I’ve seen that happen with other people that, that it just, when they walked in and just realized there is a God. But what would happen if they had to go through that parking lot, attendant that was grumpy, the greeter that didn’t greet them, the nursery worker that told ’em off the, the usher looked like, looked at him like, what are you doing here?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:31):
You think the usher that didn’t us.
Buddy Bell (29:33):
Yeah. Right. You’d think they, that, that there is a God in Israel. And then she writes a check for 130 million and dropped it in the bucket. I tell churches, you need money. There’s no telling how many Queen of Shebas have walked into your church, could have wrote you one check and paid for everything. But they thought, you know, it’s kinda like this. I asked people that, that invest in stock. Do you just ran randomly pick a stock and invest in it? No. You, you, you find out about that company and if you’re gonna invest a lot of money, you go and you visit that, that company, you want to meet the employees. You want to meet the, the, the up in the office area, you know, the executives. Cause you’re getting ready to put a bunch of money into that. Well, it’s the same way in church. Some people wonder why people aren’t giving well. Cause they, this don’t look like a good company to invest in.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:38):
Yeah.
Buddy Bell (30:39):
Now you got me preaching
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:40):
<Laugh>. Well, you’ve written some great books on the ministry of helps on ushering, on greeting, just different ways to, to help churches with the, the helps ministry. And on your website you also have some online courses that can help train churches in these different areas. They could sit all their ushers and greeters down and they could go through some of your material. And you’ve also traveled and spoken at over 3000 churches, which is an amazing statistic. Yeah. Helping a lot of different churches from every different type of denomination. So if someone wants to find out more about you, they want to buy one of your books, go through one of your courses, or maybe even invite you to come to their church. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what is your website that they can find out more information about you? Well,
Buddy Bell (31:34):
They can number one, they could type in Buddy Bell in any search engine. Okay. It’ll come up.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:41):
You know, I did that earlier. Some baseball player came
Buddy Bell (31:44):
Up. Yeah. Me and the baseball player. Yeah. People always ask me, are you Buddy Bell, the baseball player? I said, no, gimme a dollar. You know, I tell everybody, you gotta gimme a dollar. If you think I’m Buddy Bell, the baseball player, and he has four daughters and I have four daughters. You know, I, I wonder if people ever ask him, are you Buddy Bell, the preacher? You know, but
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:02):
Yeah. So type in Buddy Bell, the ministry of Helps and you’ll come
Buddy Bell (32:07):
Right up. Yeah, you can do that. Yeah. Or go to mo i.org that stands for Ministry of Helps international.org or Buddy Bell Ministries. Okay. And you know, I went 21 years straight every weekend for 21 years. Wow. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:26):
That’s
Buddy Bell (32:27):
Amazing. I’ve never written a letter. I’ve never called a pastor cold Turkey and asked for a meeting. Never. And they still keep coming in. You know, Fred Price said something one time at, at Bible’s. He says, you know, if you’ve got a word from God, God will open the doors. I remember sitting there thinking, oh, come on now, how they gonna know unless I hound them on the phone? You know? And, but it’s true. I’ve got the, one of the littlest words in the Bible, and it’s opened over 3000 doors around the world. We’ve been in 29 countries. And right now I met a gentleman, oh, about 30 years ago the International School of Ministry, Baron Gland. Today, every year he was telling me between two to 300,000 people around the world will hear my teachings on the ministry of helps in 150 nations in over 80 different languages.
(33:28):
They hear the teaching on the ministry of helps. And and so I remember before the internet, the Lord spoke to me and said, you know, you’re gonna be on the staff of thousands of churches around the world. And I thought, well, you know, that’s gonna take a lot of money to do that. You know, but one day I get a phone call from Baron Gland, and I’ve never met, met him before. He says, I’m in Tulsa, I like to take you to lunch. I thought, Hey, free lunch, I’ll go. And he says, I, I’m setting up these Bible schools in local churches. And he says, I like to use some of your your teachings that was on VHS tapes. And I said, sure. And today it’s in a, they’re in 150 nations around the world. Wow. 80 different languages. And so yeah, we have a book, the books we also have ’em in Spanish we’re working on French coming out because we have 10 teachings that come in, what we call the School of Helps.
(34:41):
School helps, has 10 teachings 10 30 minute teachings with notes and quizzes and discussion questions. That’s in English. It’s in Spanish. And just a few weeks ago they converted it into French. Wow. And and so get ahold of us. Yes, I I love traveling. I love coming in the churches. Doesn’t matter what size they are. I’ve been in churches that run 30,000 and I just came from a church that had 15 on Sunday morning. Doesn’t matter. You know I love it, Daniel. I love what I do. I love it. And I love to see people light up and realize, you know, if Jesus comes back and I’m in the nursery, he’s gonna let me in. If Jesus comes back and I’m an, I’m out in the parking lot, he’s gonna let me in. Cause we’re all valuable.
(35:42):
We’re all important. And, and I can’t leave without doing this. So let me give you one more definition. This was, this is becoming pretty famous around the world. It’s by a man by the name of God Bay. He was a Pentecostal Holiness preacher back in the 18 hundreds. And he wrote a commentary on the New Testament. And this is how he defines the ministry of helps. He starts off with the word o h o. It’s not, oh, that’s how simp some people respond to rendering assistance. But he’s excited. He starts off, oh, the infinite value of the humble gospel helpers. Thousands of people have no gifts as leaders are number one helpers. How Grand revival work moves along When, when Red the heart platoons a fire baptize helpers crowd around God’s heroic leaders of the embattled hosts.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:41):
Woo. That’s powerful
Buddy Bell (36:43):
<Laugh>. What a definition for a dirty diaper changer. Amen. <laugh>, what a definition for an usher. What a definition for those who serve in our outreaches outside of the church for those who clean the church. Why? Cause we’re in this together.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:59):
Amen. Amen. Well, Dr. Buddy Bell, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. Ah-Huh. I love your ministry and just love your heart for helping pastors and helping build up the helps ministry in the church. God bless you.
Buddy Bell (37:14):
Amen.
Evangelism Podcast Host (37:15):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real. You’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more Is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? It is powerful, easy to read book. Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen to good people? Proof God is real. Daniel King shows you, God is there and he cares for you. Plus, how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order proof God is real today by calling 1-877-431-FOUR 2 7 6 or find the book on Amazon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:18):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review By giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (39:39):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Paul Fraser | Multiplying Churches in Canada
Paul Fraser is in charge of Championing, Training, and Resourcing Disciple-Makers for the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC). He leads the Multiply Network which mentors and trains church planters across Canada. Their goal is that every Canadian will have an access point to the gospel. Today we talk about what God is doing in the nation of Canada!
Questions:
How are you helping churches to multiply?
What church growth strategies are working in Canada right now?
What trends does the PAOC see happening right now in your network of churches?
What do see are the challenges and opportunities for reaching people for Jesus in the Canadian context?
Learn More About the Multiply Network: https://paocmultiply.com/
Learn more about the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada: https://paoc.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Paul Frazier is in charge of championing training and resourcing disciple makers for the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC). He leads the Multiply Network, which mentors and trains church planters across Canada. Their goal is that every Canadian will have an access point to the gospel. Today we talk about what God is doing in the nation of Canada.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:41):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:05):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, Paul Frazier. Thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Paul Fraser (01:19):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
All right, well let’s start at the beginning. Can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Paul Fraser (01:29):
Yeah, so been in ministry now 25 years. Went to Bible college right outta high school and got married early. Went right into ministry, pastor in a local church, worked at a Christian school for a bit as a campus pastor. Ended up working at a regional district office as the district youth director and eventually kind of not aged out, but then kind of moved on to running our church, planting for our district, among other things. And now I work at the P A U C national Office as the National Church Multiplication Coordinator, which is the sister organization to Assemblies of God, us, and get an opportunity to work with some of the best leaders pioneering, entrepreneurial coming from all over the world to help us reach people in Canada through church planting. So it’s, it’s a great job. Love doing it. Lots of travel, get to meet some great people. So just really enjoying this season of ministry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
Yeah, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, the P A O C is just a great organization. About how many churches are in the P O P O A C right now?
Paul Fraser (02:42):
Yeah, so we would, we would have about somewhere around 1100 or maybe, you know, 10 80 to 1100, somewhere in there of self-governing churches at probably another 150, 130, somewhere in there. We’re, we’re somewhere around 1200 altogether with satellite campuses, self-governing churches, and right across Canada. And we have eight districts. And so, yeah, it’s really, it’s, we’ve had a great, we, we just turned a hundred years old in 2019 and you know, had tremendous growth for the last 20 years or so. Just been plateauing, incrementally growing. So within the last 10 years we’ve had a really big push on church planting and just seeing some really fun, great results from that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:33):
And so you’re leading the multiply network and I really like what it says on your website that your goal is that every Canadian would have a, an access point to the gospel. And so talk to me a little bit about kinda what God is doing in Canada, what opportunities you see, and then what challenges the church in Canada is facing right now.
Paul Fraser (03:59):
Yeah, great, great questions and thanks for referencing that cuz that is, that is our big tagline. If, if you don’t have a burden for the lost, you shouldn’t be planting a church. Like we’re not just looking to have more services for church people. There has to be a real sense of Yeah, like your church, your people, your social media, your everything could be an access point to the gospel for people to find Jesus, to have that life transforming love affect their life. And we’re in a interesting I don’t know where you’re listening from in the world today, cause I know these podcasts, the world just made is so much smaller. But in Canada, we, you know, we’ve lived in a post kind of Christian age for you know, I don’t know, maybe 20, 30 years. It depends who you, depends who you ask.
(04:51):
And so it’s great because on the one hand, people don’t have a lot of history of like, well, you know, I got hurt by church cuz I, you know, I did this and that. But it’s like, there’s a real sense of like curiosity. You know, there was a time in Canada probably just like the US where 90% of Canadians went to church. Of course that was the early 19 hundreds and everyone went to church on Sunday. It was kind of cultural and everyone did that. And now, you know, right around that 10% or a little less in Canada. So we really see a need for fresh expressions, new ways to reach people far from God and and to work with younger leaders who have a different call maybe than what I had and what my parents had and are like, are being creative and, and getting excited about trying new things and experimenting.
(05:42):
And so I’m really grateful that I get to be a part with them, provide maybe the banks of the river <laugh>, you know, for some of these young leaders that wanna do something like, hey, let’s, let’s, let’s do that, but let’s also have some structure. Let’s also have some of this. And so the opportunities here are, I actually think people are open to spirituality. There’s an openness to prayer, there’s an openness to hearing what you believe. And so, you know, used to be, you know, evangelism was, you know, very different. It was, you know, how I kind of described it in Canada was, you know, invite people to church. The pastor invites them to Jesus. And if we’re on the ball, we invite them into our life. And that’s, that can still work, that there’s nothing wrong with that. But I think maybe a more effective model is maybe invite them into your life.
(06:38):
You invite them to Jesus. And then church makes so much more sense. Like when I ch mean church, I mean the Sunday gathering. So I just think there’s an opportunity for people every day living on mission, you know, reading the great commission as, as you go about your day make disciples. And so there’s a lot of like yeah. So there’s a lot of opportunity out there. And I would say the obstacles are probably the same. Most places that there’s a hardness of heart scriptures tell us that the God of this world is blinded the eyes of man, and so they just can’t see. And so we, so we bump into those things. There’s an apathy at times within our church culture, perhaps that’s a bit more consumer, less about cause. And so, you know, I get concerned about that. I get concerned about when people think all I need to do to be a Christian is attend church regularly, give and volunteer, and then I’m fulfilling, you know, my role. And I just think, no, Jesus, Jesus is also concerned about some other things about you living on mission every day, 24 7. He’s Lord all the time. So I think we bump into the same obstacles. I mean, we could talk culturally even from this, even though Canada and the US are right next to each other, there’s some significant change, you know, differences in thinking there. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:59):
What are, what,
Paul Fraser (08:00):
What do you say?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:00):
But I would say see are some of the differences between the United States and Canada as far as church culture and, and, and reaching out to people. I, I’m, I’m very interested in this because I, I’ve actually been praying a lot for Canada. My wife is Canadian. She grew up in Morville, small town right outside of the Edmonton area.
Paul Fraser (08:23):
I know where that is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:23):
And yeah so I met her in the middle of Africa. She was a missionary girl sent out from Canada. And so God brought us together. And since I’m married to a Canadian now our ministry is is an official charity in Canada, king Ministries Canada. And, and so every year we go up to visit her family up in Morville. And I, I usually preach at different churches in, in different parts of Alberta and in other parts of Canada. So I’ve really been praying for Canada. I’ve been praying for revival to come to Canada. But as an American, you know, it’s, it’s easy to be perceived as being too pushy. I think Americans tend to be more pushy than Canadians and Canadians. They don’t like that. And so what are, what do you see are some of the differences between America and in Canada?
Paul Fraser (09:16):
Yeah, like it, we have a big, like a big value on individuality, you know, so we would, and I don’t know if this is true anymore, but when I grew up, you know, going to high school, it was kind of like Canada was this multicultural individualistic, you can, you can be whatever you need to be, however you need to be. But in the US it was, and so we called that, you know, the multiculturalism of Canada. And then a bit of a, and of course in the US this has changed significantly since I’ve been to high school. But just kind of that melty pot where it’s like, no, if you moved to the US you’re American. But in Canada you would be like, you know, African Canadian or you know, you’re from, you’re, you’re, you’re from Spain, but you’re also Canadian. But so there’s, there’s a sense of individuality.
(10:06):
So we get offended easy. So that’s why we get, sometimes when people get, we perceive as pushy, it’s like, whoa, hey, can’t we all just get along here? And it’s like, so I find the directness of like, at least in churches being d it’s easier to be direct. I find it’s easier to have conversations with people in the us I think it’s like, honestly, when I travel, I was down for conferences twice this year already. And just sitting down at tables talking with people, it’s just like, wow. Like, they’re just so easy. And because we’re individualistic, we feel like we don’t wanna talk to people about our personal lives or faith and we don’t wanna offend. That’s like, like the cardinal sin of being. And so if you offend, you always say, you know, I’m sorry there’s a, you know, we always get Canadians like just, they’re so apologetic because we’re always offended it. So I think we, I’m
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:00):
Sorry for being sorry so much <laugh>. I’m sorry for being so
Paul Fraser (11:03):
Yeah, like, I’m sorry for being sorry. And I’m sorry that it offended you and all of those things. And, but when it comes to church planting we’re one-tenth the size of the US And so when sometimes the books get written from a US perspective saying, oh, your launch team needs to be this many people and you should have this many people on Sunday. And you know, this is how fast. And you hear the stories of like, yeah, we started in our garage and we grew to 500, you know, in six months. And those stories happen because the population density is, is different. There I think there’s a bit more openness maybe to, to coming to a Sunday gathering where there’d be less in Canada. And we just find like a 500 person church in Canada is like bordering on large. Like if you’re 500 person, you’re so times 10, that’s a 5,000 person church Yeah.
(11:55):
In the us. And so I think we always feel a little like, like, you know, just we’re the little brother for sure in that. And so we kind of resist some of the, you know, US strategies for church planning cuz they just don’t jive the same. So I think we grow a little bit more organically in our thinking and we’re less like big box store structure. I think we’re a little bit more agile, we’re able to explore things a little bit different. Of course those are huge generalizations and, but that would just be some of my takes as I go to church planning conferences and leadership and different things like that as it relates to church world. But, and send some of the cultural differences there as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:37):
Yeah. So in the Canadian context, what are you doing to help churches to multiply and grow?
Paul Fraser (12:49):
Yeah, so obviously sharing the vision of church multiplication the opportunity for us to reach people far from God, I, I try to remind a church planter as they’re like trying to figure out banking and trying to figure out structures and finances and all these things and teams. And I try to remind them like, Hey, picture that first person that gets saved on a Sunday. Or, you know, you know, someone says from your, your core team, they got like picture that. And so keeping the vision of why we’re doing it is really important when a church planter or somebody, and again, I think church planting is one of the most effective ways in North America to reach people far from God. I think there’s a lot of status that would support that. Even the eyeball test for me as I go around different churches and compare size of church and look at their stats year over year to an existing church that there are more salvations that happen in a church plant.
(13:50):
But, you know, keeping the vision in front of them, keeping it like, this is why we’re doing it. We’re, we’re not. Just like, one of the things that I think maybe church planting 20 years ago was built more around, we’re planting a service, not a church. Like let’s just plant a gathering. And then, because that was a really effective way to reach people. And it was. But I think less and less certainly post covid, we’re seeing like regular attendance to a church now be 2.2 times a month. And we’re seeing boomers not come back to church. And, and gen Xers specifically are two groups that just are not, they’re not coming back millennials with young families and Gen Xers or sorry, gen Z. They seem to be, you know, finding their way back to, you know, houses of worship in, in, in churches.
(14:38):
But yeah, man, I, I think, I think just keeping the vision in front of them, like this is why we do it. And this is, and, and if you went on a website too, I think somewhere else we try to exist to take the guesswork out of it to help churches because they don’t have time to read all the books, they don’t have time to do all the training, they don’t have time to do all the steps that are needed to help get a new disciple making community going. So we try to come alongside them and support them. We’re, we want to come alongside their vision, their idea, but we, but obviously we wanna share like, yeah, we, we need to be like planting churches cuz we’re closing churches not to the, and at least in our POC tribe we’re slightly outpacing our closures with new starts and that’s just not, we’re not gonna reach Canada incrementally. It’s gotta be this multiplication, exponential thing. And so sharing the vision of like, you can start a church, you can do it, maybe it’s micro church, maybe it’s a campus, maybe, you know, it’s an organic grow where you look at a town next to you and you start an alpha and you know, everybody can kind of do something. Everyone can be an access point to the gospel. And so we just try to share that vision and get them and equip them and train them as best we can.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:57):
Now I, I really like the fact that you are mentoring in coaching church planners. So kind of talk me through that process. If you have a, a young man of God who comes to you and says, I it’s really been on my heart to, to start a church, I really feel a call to, to be a ministry, to be a pastor. How would you encourage him to, to plan a church and then walk him through the process? How, how long does that process take and and what are some of the things that you’re telling him?
Paul Fraser (16:29):
Yeah, so we, we have you know, church planters who kind of jump into our pipeline either at the district level or at a national level. And one of the things that, there is a book some years ago written by, I’m just trying to look for it on my shelf to get their, I think it’s called The Honest Guide to Church Planting by Tom Bernardo. And I get them to read that book and if they still want to plant churches, like after reading that book, then it’s like, okay, that’s like a good first step and literal, legit, that’s what I’ve done. I’m like, please read this book because it’s honest. Like, hey, the people you start with won’t be the people there in three years. You know, and you know, this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen. People say they’re with you and then won’t.
(17:11):
And then new people will come with new ideas and try to shift the vision and you know, all those things. And so if you read that, that’s great. But so we try to get them like, ah, tried to get them to realistically look at not an ideal world like dream world, that this is what, you know, I hear all the church planting stories and everything’s gonna be like this. Like it’s actually hard work, it’s a grind. Making disciples isn’t easy reaching people far from God and getting into that culture. So I try to get, you know, try to figure out, okay, how serious are you about it? Have you read this book? What do you think? So we talk about that. But as we go through the coaching there, there’s also an assessment that needs to happen. It’s not just good enough that you’re called, there’s a certain skillset set that you’re gonna need for a certain, you know, whatever model of church planting.
(17:59):
So we walk them through pre-assessment and then we walk them through a formal assessment after that. That would then kind of kick in some coaching. It would kick in some training. And you know, to do most launch model churches, you’re looking at about nine to 12 months. Cuz there’s fundraising that needs to happen. There’s training, team development, finding space leasing, all those things. So I try to you know, try to get them thinking like, if you want to start in September, you’re going to need, you know, really to be hitting it pretty hard in January. Now some guys start a year out and I think if you get your team meeting too early, you’ll lose a bit of steam when you actually need it in launch season. So there’s this like balance of like, yes, I want to get the team on board, but I don’t wanna start too early.
(18:55):
Cuz our launch is still nine months away. So yeah. But it’s usually about nine months in and monthly coaching I’m available. Our district lead teams or multiply network lead team is available to answer questions. And so what makes our movement a little interesting is it’s not standardized. Every district has a different process. So I try to learn all the processes and then just come alongside them. We’re working on talking about standardizing some things, but you know, we’re literally, the multi-network is here to serve them. And so whatever we can do to help them, we do. But yeah, I actually am a certified life coach and so this is just really up my alley and I love doing it and just really helping, helping them get from where they are today to where they want to be. That’s just a real big dream of mine.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:47):
Yeah, coaching is so valuable. You can either learn from your mistakes or you can learn from someone else’s mistakes. And so a coach can help you avoid some of the, the big mistakes that that might be made. What are some of the, the mistakes that church planners sometimes make that you can help them to avoid?
Paul Fraser (20:06):
Yeah, so I think, I think starting to early with a team, that that is definitely one leaving fundraising too late is another thing where you don’t say, yeah, you know, I’m working on building the team. It’s like, have you talked to any donors yet? Have you talked to your district? Have you talked to churches that might, oh no, yeah, I’m gonna get to that. And you know, we try to build in to their training, like have one conversation a week, nine months out. Because sometimes it takes two or three or four or five meetings before a donor feels comfortable. Like, oh, this is actually gonna go. And one of the important things that we try to drill in is like, hey, donor confidence is critically important. So have good reporting, have good, all of that. I would say what’s a, what’s another mistake that that planters, oh, they try to do too much on their own and they don’t rely enough on team.
(21:07):
So you wanna make sure you have a team, develop your team, spend time with them take time to think through your discipleship pathway. That’s huge. Like what is it? And if I walked into your church day one, could your core team tell me the next step? Like what’s the next step in discipleship? Are they aware of your discipleship pathway? Cause I ask pastors all the time, Hey, do you guys have a discipleship pathway? Yes we do. Great. Does anyone know it? Like, is it functioning? Is it clear? Do, does your board know it? Does your your team know it does, you know, so we don’t wanna be planting churches that don’t have disciple making culture. So I drill down like, you tell me someone walking off the street who’s never heard the name of Jesus before and get them to be a leader in your church.
(22:02):
What’s the process? And that’s, that’s the kind of thinking I really, really want to have in our new churches that we start, is that disciple making culture. Cause I think we overlook it and think, well, discipleship will just kind of accidentally happen. No, no. What’s the intentional process, steps training that you need to build this culture in your church? That’s critically important. And yeah, and it’s, and just, I think people get excited about having space and thinking that it’s gonna be theirs forever. And the reality is you’ll move probably several times before you’ll find a more permanent space. And, and you just gotta be okay with the, you gotta be okay with flexibility. We try to drill that in, don’t be too rigid, don’t try to get too worked up about how things aren’t moving. So there’s a, I don’t know, just off the top of my head, those are some of the things that I think through and try to help planters think through.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:02):
What would an ideal discipleship process look like? I, I think that’s a great question. If you have someone coming off the street who doesn’t know Jesus and, and you wanna bring them through their relationship and eventually become a leader in the church, what are some discipleship processes that you’ve seen that, that you really think other churches should, should emulate?
Paul Fraser (23:25):
Yeah, so this is probably the most, probably the most simple one that I, that I, I’ve created with our, our training. It was, it comes from actually Dr. Howard Hendricks years ago, and I can’t remember where, if I was at a conference or I heard it on a tape. Remember when we used to have tapes, you could have a tape.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:42):
That was a long time ago.
Paul Fraser (23:44):
That was a long time. Like back
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
When Jesus walked on the earth. Yeah,
Paul Fraser (23:48):
<Laugh>. Yeah. So I think he captured something that was really, really important. He talked about characteristics of a disciple. So I’m not, I don’t care how this gets done, I don’t care where it gets done. I just want to ensure that that person walking off the street has these three things that are being built into them. The characteristics of a disciple, again, from Dr. Howard Hendricks, first one, are you a learner? So you need someone to ensure what that this new person is. What are they learning? Second thing, who are they following? So do they have, and again, now today with content being so accessible, you actually have to get into people’s lives. Like who are you listening to? Like who are you, what podcast? Like, but to have someone just walking with them again, dec decide you can’t disciple from a distance very well.
(24:40):
You’ve gotta be, there’s a proximity piece. So what am I learning? Who am I following? And then there needs to be evaluation of what’s being reproduced in my life. And I think we need to spend a little bit more time on that thing, making sure that the people we’re discipling are producing the fruit of the spirit. So we actually go through it with them. How’s your love level, joy, peace, patience, kindness. Because when you’re connected to Christ, you bear this, you don’t have to work hard. So this is a, this is a telltale sign that you are connected to Jesus if this fruit is growing in your life. So you ask questions like, how’s your patience level with your kids? Not great. Okay, how do we fix that connection to Jesus? Great. how’s your, you know, how’s your self-control not great? Okay, great.
(25:32):
How do we fix that connection to Jesus? And so we can, we can use those characteristics as a way, and again, that can have through small groups one-on-one. I think Sunday mornings can play a huge part in that on the teaching and inspiration, that type of thing. And then at some point they turn from learner follower, reproducer to a teacher leader and multiplier. So when you, when you’re, when you feel like you, what am I learning? Who am I following? What’s being reproduced in my life? Then, then we ask you to be a teacher. What are you teaching? How are you leading and what are you multiplying in others? So there’s that, there’s that you start as the student, but at some point the discipleship process should lead you to you know, teacher leader and then multiplier. So I try to, I say I don’t care how that shows up, but are those characteristics being built into the culture of your church? And if they are, then there’s a good chance that a discipleship culture is being developed, but it does take time.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:42):
Do you find that you need different strategies for different parts of Canada? Like when you go to Alberta, Vancouver, there’s some really big churches, some really amazing churches, then you go to like Quebec and it’s under 2% Christian. I mean, it’s really like a mission field. Yeah. Over there are are, are you developing different strategies for different parts of Canada?
Paul Fraser (27:05):
Yeah, I think we need to, certainly you make a a great point about Quebec being francophone less than it’s, I think it’s less than 1% evangelical. So when you think about like our, our Western hemisphere, it’s one of the darkest places like void of evangelical gospel witness it, it’s Quebec and there’s just a different culture and mindset there. So yeah, I think there has to be a different strategy for our francophone family and and province. I think there’s a different strategy that’s needed for suburban, urban, and rural. So it’s not just one cookie cutter, here’s how it works. And all of those mean something different. So an urban center in Saskatchewan, for example, is I think Saskatoon is maybe 400,000 people that would be urban for Saskatchewan. Okay. What’s urban in Toronto is, you know, 11 million people in the GTA area.
(28:16):
So there is a huge difference when we talk urban from district to district, rural, either rural, like in Ontario, they think like a rural town is like 15 or 20,000, but rural in Alberta or Manitoba or Saskatchewan might be 150 people. So there, you’re right, we have to contextualize this for each province. And then as you break it down for each part of the province, like Northwest Territories for example, like up there, like Candace’s got this massive land mass, and, but I think there’s like, ah, don’t quote me on it, maybe 60,000 people in all of Northwest territories. Like it’s just really spread out in time. So you need a different church planting strategy and mission strategy for that too. So the diversity, the different kind of Canada and Maritimers are different than West Coast and I mean, it would be the same in the US wouldn’t it?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:19):
Yeah. And the East coast is very different than Oklahoma where I live. It, it’s very much more of a, a mission field and it takes a whole different thick skin to go and witness all the heathens that live over there that maybe don’t have a, a tradition of, of knowing God. I mean, here in Oklahoma even people that go to church, you know, they, they grew up in church at least. So they know something about God, right?
Paul Fraser (29:45):
There’s a Christian memory. Yeah, there’s a Christian memory, right? Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:48):
Yeah. Another unique opportunity I think you have in Canada is there are so many people coming to Canada from many different parts of the world. Yes. Where Canada, yes, for many years has sent missionaries out all over the world. But now God is really bringing the mission field to you, and especially in Edmonton. I mean, you’ve got people of every different culture and, and language and different foods that you can eat. And so that’s a, a unique opportunity for the church to, to reach out cross culturally and, and cross language groups. And God is, is bringing you and I people that need Jesus
Paul Fraser (30:28):
And, and, and people who know Jesus. That’s the other thing. Like we, some of our best church planters that we’ve had in the last five years moved here in the last five years. Like they’ve, they’ve planted multiple churches or it, it, so you know that Luke 10, two Lord, you know, send workers, send workers into your harvest fields. And we are reaping the, the efforts, the, the missional heart of missionaries going overseas to you name the country. And, and God has used, you know, those decades of faithful ministry to raise up people who have now come back to Canada, excuse me, to help us reach people far from God. So yeah. So not only are there like, I think 300 or 400,000 people are immigrating to Canada from the wor around the world every single year. So that is a huge opportunity. But many of them are coming already faith-filled believers, spirit empowered believers, and come here and go, how do we help you reach Canada?
(31:37):
We’re gonna help you reach those from Afghanistan who are being brought here. We’re gonna help you reach and, and you know, those from Pakistans or India. India and, and, and from Africa and you just Europe and you just go through the list and you just are so thankful that God cares enough about Canada, that he’s raising up people from all over the world to come here. We’re so honored. And I’ll be honest with you, our biggest growing edge of church planting is our cultural language group pastors. And they, they bring this apostolic gifting and heart that is such a blessing to us. If we had more time, I could tell you stories of what God has done through them and how they’re impacting their country still through online ministry. So they’re here in Canada, planting church is seeing fruitful ministry and are still leading at home, seeing great things getting up in the middle of the night to preach at their church Sunday morning. Amazing. Like it’s just the, these, these wonderful leaders, men and women are gifts to us and we thank God for them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:41):
That’s awesome. Well, brother Paul, thank you so much for being a guest on the Evangelism Podcast. Let’s finish up today by praying for the Nation of Canada. You know, if you’re listening, you wanna know more about the, the p ooc and the Multiply network, you can go to www.paocmultiply.com and find out more information. But let, let’s just finish up by, by praying for God to pour out his spirit upon the nation of Canada and from sea to shining sea. I, I see God pouring out the spirit upon all of Canada.
Paul Fraser (33:20):
Come on.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:21):
Go ahead. And so
Paul Fraser (33:22):
You want me to pray? Yeah, go for it. Yeah. So, God, God, thank you for this podcast. Thank you for Pastor Daniel who just is willing to find and connect and bring great voices together to hopefully share and inspire, teach and learn about what you are doing today and what you wanna do in the future. And so I thank you for this podcast, bless it and bless him as he continues to travel all over. And just, just preach your word and see so many lives transformed by the moving of your spirit. But we do think of Canada today from as was mentioned, C to C to C. We have three of them that are surrounding Canada. And I pray God for a heart that would turn back to you. There are wells of, of strong Christian foundation. There are there’s a history that God, this was a Christian nation at one point.
(34:22):
And so wherever people are whatever they’re listening, however they’re listening to this right now and whenever they’re listening to it, that there was, there would be an agreement for you to do something special in Canada. God, I believe that if Canada wins, the world is gonna win. A Canada that is sending a Canada that has got kingdom culture is going to help impact the world. And God, I thank you for what you’ve done in the last a hundred years in poc. But I pray our former years, God, that that our future years would be better than our former years. And we had great years, but we’re believing that there’s even better days ahead. So God, we together in agreement, pray for all those in Canada. Over 30 million people who don’t know you as Lord and Savior, we pray God, that even in this next decade, we would see a mighty move of your spirit sweep across this nation. And we thank you for Canada and we thank you that it’s got a great place in the world to be an impact for you. And we ask all this in your name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:32):
Amen. Well, thank you for being on the Evangelism podcast.
Paul Fraser (35:37):
Thanks so much for having me.
Evangelism Podcast Host (35:39):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an ultra call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:40):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:01):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Waldy Bersche | Saving the Lost
Waldy Berche is my friend and he recently joined me for a crusade in Kemba, Ethiopia. Today on The Evangelism Podcast he tells about what God did in local market places and he shares what he learned from me when I was teaching at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp.
Learn more about Waldy Bersche: https://savingthelost.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today, I have a very special guest with me, Waldy Bersche from Germany,
Waldy Bersche (00:11):
Yes. So my name is Waldy Bersche. Yes. I’m from Germany.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:14):
Well, we are in the nation of Ethiopia. We have just completed doing a great gospel crusade in Kemba, Ethiopia. And you came along with me as a co evangelist. Yes. And we saw God do some amazing things. What really stood out to you this week?
Waldy Bersche (00:34):
So for me, we had a lot of healings, and this really stood out for me. So we prayed for people and they were healed right in front of our eyes. People who were blind before, people who were deaf in their ears. And it’s really great to see how God is healing people on the spot sometimes. You see how healing is working in the progress, but when Jesus heals on the spot, that so it’s great
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:56):
Miracle. What were some of the notable healings that you saw?
Waldy Bersche (00:59):
We had a lady, she was, she had pain in her body for over 30 years, and this really impacted me because she, she was suffering for 30 years and then Jesus heal her in the church. We preached in different churches and I thought about man suffering for 30 years. That’s a long time, but now Jesus was really gracious and
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
Yeah. Now you actually came early Yes. To the crusade, and you spent some time helping the publicity team to tell everyone Yes. About what was happening. And you went into some marketplaces. Tell me what happened.
Waldy Bersche (01:35):
So it was really unexpected for me because I thought the markets would be small, but we came there and markets, we had over 3000 people. I’m a white person, so I have a little bit of sunburn, but there, because of my white skin, it was really a great advantage. So the the children came to us as soon as we opened the door of the truck, and it was a great attraction. So we didn’t have to pay money for advertisement just to have white skin. It was, was a great advantage. And we preached there and yeah, it was actually crusades, I mean, three, 4,000 people on a marketplace. It was awesome. So I stood in on top of the truck. I was preaching with a microphone. I was totally surrounded by a big crowd, and I had to tour myself all the time and to see everyone. But yeah, Jesus did the same miracles. He was the same on the markets as on the big crusade fields.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
When I first met you, it was at an ACE conference, the Association of Campaign evangelists, and we were in Sweden together, and we started to talk, and you asked me where I was going and I said next week I go to Egypt, and you decided to jump in and say, can I go with you? And so the very next day we jumped on a plane together, we went to Alexandria Egypt, where we had a, a very nice event there. And lots of people from Sudan got saved. Yes, yes, that’s true in Alexandria. And then you have this great desire to be an evangelist. Yes. And so you went to the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Yeah. and I was one of the instructors. Yeah. And then since then, you’ve gone full-time into evangelism, just giving yourself for Jesus Christ. What were some of the things that you learned in the Evangelism Bootcamp that now are helping you to tell people about Jesus?
Waldy Bersche (03:29):
So, I learned a lot of things, especially from you. I really, what do I like about you is that you write books. So I have, you’ve written a lot of books, and my goal is to write also a couple of books. So when we were together in, in Egypt, I always saw you writing on the laptop. And this really impacted me. I said, okay, if Daniel writes, I mean, then I have to write. Paul wrote also and his letters we read after 2000 years. And you said, okay if I’m going to die, my books will still preach the gospel. And that’s what I like. So this is one thing. And also the boldness just to Yeah. Stand on a crusade field just to stay on a platform and preach in front of 30 thou or 40,000 people. It’s totally different.
(04:11):
Not everyone can do this, but you made it and thought, okay I would like to learn from Daniel. I would like to learn from the best. And what, what I also really like is you told me that you read a book when you were 15 years, how to become a millionaire. And so you said, okay, I don’t want to become a dollar millionaire, but a soul millionaire. And this stuck in my head. I said, okay, Daniel brought 1 million people to Jesus. What are my goals in life? Do I want to get rich? Do I want to be famous? But I also want to lead 1 million people to Jesus. That’s my goal. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:45):
Amen. I’m
Waldy Bersche (04:46):
Really up to you
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:47):
And agree with you that you will become a soul millionaire in the name of Jesus. And you’re already well on your way. You’ve been ministering with Christ for all nations. Yes. You were part of de capitalist previously in Yes. Just now you’re going to go to Zambia. Yeah. And you’re going to be helping with one of the, the Christ for all nations de capitalist crusades. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> you’re gonna be helping to organize it Yeah. And set it up. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and, and so you’re just giving everything you have for Jesus. And you’ve also launched your ministry. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what’s the name of your ministry?
Waldy Bersche (05:19):
So my ministry is called Saving the Lost.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:21):
Saving the Lost. And if someone wants to find out about your ministry or donate to help you with all the different Yeah. Crusades and, and outreaches that you’re doing. Yeah. how can they do that?
Waldy Bersche (05:31):
Yeah. So you can just go to www saving the lost.com. Also, I just started the YouTube channel. There’s some videos also. I have Telegram also. I’m on Instagram. So I’m just Google me and you will find
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:43):
Me. Now let’s talk about how you got started. You had this desire from God to be an evangelist. Yes. But you didn’t really know what to do or how to do it. Yeah. So how did you start learning to be an evangelist?
Waldy Bersche (05:55):
So I always when I was young, a lot of missionaries came into my church. And this really left a great impression on me. So I, I read the magazines from the missionaries and I said, one day, I want to become a missionary. So I knew cfa, I knew Billy Graham, but I was so shy that, okay, I cannot contacted Billy Graham Ministries or Christ Fall Nation. Who am I? I’m just a small fish. So then I, on Google, I found by accident another crusade evangelist. He was from Sweden. And I ask him, may
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:27):
I come? My friend Marcus Blue,
Waldy Bersche (06:28):
Right. And I ask him, may I come along on one of your trips? So invited me to India, and there is somewhere in the Himalayas on, on, in a pastor’s conference. I saw how God opened up a deaf ear and I thought, oh, Jesus is still healing today, like 2000 years ago. And then we went to the south of India and I saw a crusade. And Marcos gave me the opportunity to start the crusade where he gave me five minutes as an opener. And I preach my heart out. And then when I took the microphone, I realized I want to be a crusade evangelist and discontinued. And I went to Pakistan, other countries as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:07):
You caught the missions bug. Yes. And, and now you continue in it. And I believe that God will give you Yeah. The million souls that you’re asking for. And even beyond you will be a, a soul millionaire in Jesus name. Thank you so much. Well, Valdi, we are very honored that you came and partnered with us for this great gospel crusade in Kemba, Ethiopia. And I really hope we can do something more together once again very soon. So thank you and God bless you.
Waldy Bersche (07:34):
Thank you so much, Daniel. It’s an honor.
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Lako Bedasso | What is God Doing in Ethiopia?
Lako Bedasso is the president of Ethiopia Full Gospel Church. He says his denomination has ten million people and 3,500 different churches. Today, he talks about the great harvest and the great challenges that are facing the Ethiopian church.
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m very excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, pastor Laco Beso. Yes. He is one of the key leaders here in the nation of Ethiopia. Tell me a little bit about your denomination. You’re the president, what is God doing here in Ethiopia and what is God doing through the denomination?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah. it is a, this day is a time of harvest and the time of challenge for us nowadays. When I say the time of harvest, many people are coming to Jesus. A Ethiopian focus will believers church. I am a president for Ethiopian focus gospel will believers church. We have 10 million believers in 3,527 local churches that is organized in for regions.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:04):
What a blessing. God is moving in such great ways here in Ethiopia.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah. The God is doing great work and, and great thing is happening now. There is one area, there is a, the area is controlled by rebellions before five man for three years it was suffering in that area. Now the pieces come, the intimidator who bring that peace is our pastor from that ethnic group. So among the Liberian ethnic group, in one day I baptize 107 believers. Wow. It is three weeks ago what is happening. So God is moving in our country and touching all ethnic group. Beside that, there is a challenge also, and nowadays there is 52 local church worshiping build is destroyed. It’s need to, for us to re reconstruct that one. And we are looking the people for <inaudible>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:24):
And so there is great persecution Yes. In some areas of Ethiopia. Yes. Yes. And they’ve destroyed over 50 churches. Yes. And now.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:33):
And now you’re looking for help to come and, and rebuild.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes. Yeah. We are, we are praying to God to send someone to support and stand with us. And in 22 places it is very urgent. The people are coming up in the worshiping under some trees and under very small shade. So it, it’s in need. Great. Now, additionally, we need CRO in the, the people are very, very in need to come to Jesus. The gospel is very important to healing our country, to heal our people. So we, we like to invite you to come again and to preach in my country.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:21):
Oh, thank you. I’ve been coming to Ethiopia ever since 2008. So 15 years now. The, this crusade we just did in Kemba is the 10th crusade that we have done here. And I have fallen in love with the people of Ethiopia. You know the United States is not mentioned in the Bible. Canada is not mentioned in the Bible, but Ethiopia is mentioned so many times in the Bible. And God has such a special plan for this nation and for the people. And I’m just so excited to see the, the amazing work that God is doing through your ministry. You and I actually met in South Korea. Yes. We were at the, the conference for the World Pentecostal Fellowship. Yes. And we were sitting on the bus together and you, you told me, you said, Daniel,
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Please,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:13):
You must come to Ethiopia, do a crusade, come and do a pastor’s conference. And so if, if I was to come, what, in what ways could I help your church? What, what, what could I do to be a blessing to you?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. And as you told me that, say that we met in, in South Korea conference. I am ambassador of Ethiopian at the, for the Pentecostal World Fellowship. Here I, this, this one
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:47):
It’s beautiful pin. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So when you come to Ethiopia, number one, you share the grace of God that given to you to share for Roman and to pray for empowering of the ministers and the pastors. And number two, we invite the peoples from different part of the country and other Ethiopia, you know, the economic situation. Maybe you support, you support some of Fundis by, by by just having the room eating and all transportation for some people who do not have capacity to come this area in such way, if you support us, we need, moreover, we need your grace that God gave you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:46):
Oh, thank you. Well, I would be very honored to come and we must make plans because I believe that, that God will do something very great. If you’re listening to this, I have lots of missionaries and evangelists that listen, please come to Ethiopia. There is a great harvest here that people that are ready to come to Jesus. In the Book of Psalms, it says that Ethiopia shall quickly stretch out her hands towards God. And we have seen that so many times. And it’s so beautiful to see what God is doing here. Thank you, brother for being on the Evangelism podcast. Amen.
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Help Us Buy a Sound System | The Joshua Campaign in Ethiopia
Joshua Campaign has led millions of people to Jesus in the past 25 years in Ethiopia. But now they need to purchase a new sound system. Today I talk with Per Akvist about why it is so important to invest in the infrastructure of evangelism. Can you help?
To Give Towards a Sound System for Ethiopia go to: https://joshuacampaign.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I am excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I am in the nation of Ethiopia with my good friend, Per Akvist. Per, thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (00:14):
Thank you for having me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
We have just completed a wonderful crusade in the city of Kemba. Yes. We went to, we flew into Arbor Mench and then drove about three and a half hours up into the mountains. Yes, ma’am. And God did tremendous miracles,
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (00:32):
Even in the rain. It was fantastic.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:35):
And the amazing thing is, is that Joshua campaign, the organization that you lead, lead here in Ethiopia, you have been doing crusades for 25 years now. That’s correct. Across this nation. Yes. And so,
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (00:51):
Well, 15 under my leadership,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:53):
15 under your leadership before you Carl Haram. Yes. founded Joshua campaign. Yes. And Joshua campaign has literally seen millions of people come to Jesus. Now, the reason that I wanted to talk to you today is because Joshua campaign is launching a new project to prepare for the next 25 years of ministry. We think that God is working in mighty ways here in Ethiopia, and we want to be a part of it.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (01:26):
Wonderful. You’re so welcome,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:28):
<Laugh>. Thank you. Yes. And we, we’ve actually talked before about Joshua campaign on the Evangelism podcast. Yes. but today I really want to focus in and talk about this new sound system that Joshua campaign is raising funds for the sound system that you have. It was bought 25 years ago, and pieces of it have been replaced over the years
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (01:54):
And lot of repaired
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:56):
In a lot of repair. And even at this crusade, I was going and looking at some of the wires that are duct tape. They are wrapped up together. And you have a, a, a small truck and a generator that, that pull, that is pulled along with the truck, and then you have a, a platform, but really it’s come become time that all of that needs to be replaced. Tell, tell me some of the need of why.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (02:22):
As you said, the, the sound system is very well used. It’s I would say it’s good invested money. We, we have done so many crusades with this sound equipment, and of course, so much repairs as well. Today we have a good sound. But you see, you hear my voice as well. We, we, we use it with our own power as well. But the, the next step, we celebrating now 25 years, and with the 25 years anniversary, we would like to a new sound system. And we have something really good going on. And that’s an investment of a hundred thousand dollars we need to sell this truck that we have by a bigger one. The trailer is not good. Having the generator is not good having on the trailer, it’s a lot of accidents and things can happen on, on the Ethiopian roads, <laugh>, it’s very special roads here.
(03:32):
So we, we need to put the trailer on top of the I mean the generator on top of the, the, the truck. We need a larger truck in order to carry the new sound system. All in all sound stage is also, is, it’s a lot of cast irons and it’s very heavy for the boys to work with. And it’s, so it is in general, the whole, our, all of our equipment is very old and very much used. The total amount that we are calculating on now with the new truck, with preparing a new stage, the sound and all, a lot of, lot of details around we looking into a total cost of $170,000. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:28):
$170,000, you’re going to replace the platform, the sound system, and get a new truck to mount it all on. Yes. And that is a, a significant amount of money, but I was thinking about investing in the equipment that’s needed for evangelism. Now, think about a church, I was thinking about this the other day. If, if you think about a church, most of the ministry that a church does happens inside the church building. Yes. Yes. And so churches will often do a capital campaign and they will raise a lot of money in order to build a new building. And sometimes it can cost millions of dollars to build a new church building. And they ask their entire congregation to help to build the building. And, and people make commitments. And sometimes it takes a few years. They say, I will make a commitment of this amount every month for the next three years in order to help make it happen. Now, the, the reason that the ministry of a church invests in the church building is because the church building is where their ministry takes place.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (05:36):
And for members to have a comfortable place to sit in air condition and Yeah. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:42):
Now for an evangelist, we don’t minister in a church building. We go out on the dusty fields. Yes. And our ministry takes place on a platform. And so I really think by investing in the infrastructure of evangelism, you can accomplish far more forgot. Sometimes evangelists go to a nation and they, they rent a sound system just from a local music group, and it can cost a significant amount of money. I mean, they can spend up to five, $6,000 per night just renting the sound system. But the benefit of owning the sound system is then you don’t have all of that cost of renting. You own it. You can go and set it up, and at the drop of a hat, you can go anywhere that God tells you to go. Anywhere that the door opens up, you can go set up the sound system in very easily. You can have a crusade.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (06:44):
It’s a big harvesting machine.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:47):
<Laugh>, it’s a big harvesting machine. Now the good news is that Joshua campaign has been already given a significant gift
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (06:56):
That’s good.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:57):
Of $100,000.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (06:58):
That is really good
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:59):
News, <laugh>. And it comes from the everyone fund. Yes. from Empower 21, everyone is a vision by Dr. Billy Wilson, who is the president of Oral Roberts University. Yes. And he leads Empower 21. He’s also the president of the World Pentecostal churches right now. And God gave Dr. Billy Wilson a vision to reach everyone on earth with the gospel before 2033, so that every single person would have an authentic encounter with Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit before 2033, the 2000 year anniversary of Pentecost.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (07:39):
Yes. And that vision connect so well with the Joshua campaign. Our vision is one chance for every person.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:48):
One chance for every person. And so for 25 years, Joshua Campaign has been working here in Ethiopia trying to give one chance for every person to hear the gospel.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (07:58):
And I would say in that context of Ethiopia, where you have seen such a great opening after the communism, we, Carl came in right there in the beginning, and I came 10 years later. And all, in all 25 years in a situation where you have the nation was almost unreached, totally unreached till today you have it out of 120 million people, you have about 20% evangelical believers. And we have been a part of that. And I can say that from our platform, and I’m trying to, to, I don’t want to be an, an evangelist that pulling numbers here and there, but literally millions of people and moderate calculating, I believe around 4 million or, I mean, it is about, about 4 million people have come to Christ from preaching on, on our platform. So I think it’s good, invested money.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:07):
So this investment of this new sound system over the next 25 years, it could potentially result in millions more people coming into the Kingdom of heaven. Absolutely. And so for my listeners today, I want to invite you to invest in this sound system in the nation of Ethiopia. Yeah. And I have lots of evangelists who listen, I hope they will invest and then maybe even come here and preach with the sound system. You
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (09:40):
Are welcome. Give us seed money and God can open up the doors.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:45):
So we need $170,000. We have already had this grant of $100,000, so that leads $70,000. And with that we need to update the platform, update the sound system by a new truck. Just in, we, we are investing in the infrastructure of evangelism because the platform is where the ministry takes place for an evangelist. Exactly. And so I want to ask you to give something to help out with this. Perhaps you could give $10,000, $20,000. The cost of the truck is gonna be about $30,000. Maybe you’re listening. A guy will put it on your heart to go ahead and invest and buy a truck for Joshua campaign. That’s great. And so we need your help. Anything that you want to give you can contact me and at king ministries.com. Give me a call and I’ll tell you how to invest. What’s your website if
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (10:43):
Joshua campaign.com. We have a paper account there. It’s easy
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:47):
Joshuacampaign.Com. So if you want to give at joshuacampaign.com, you can, if you have a significant gift that you wanna make sure that you wire it directly into the account, contact me or contact brother pair
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (11:01):
And we will we just open up a new account in America as well. And that information will be on the website as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:11):
Wonderful. Further on. So I want to ask you to please help us invest in the infrastructure of evangelism by putting money into the sound system. It makes every crusade way cheaper to do. Yes. And it makes it possible to do so much more for God. And we need to help Joshua campaign because right now the wires are held together with spit and duct tape, and they have been so faithful. Over 4 million souls have come to Jesus with the platform that they have now. And with this updated platform, I think we will be able to reach bigger crowds, more people, and the, the, the team will not have to be out there holding wires together in the middle of the lightning storm. And it’ll
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (12:00):
Be easier to work with. It’s going to be liner race, so it’s going to be easier to, for them to work with. So everything going to be much smoother and we going to reach longer.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:12):
Awesome. Yes. All right. Well, thank you for listening to the Evangelism Podcast, brother Pair. I celebrate the great history of Joshua campaign and I look forward to see what God does in the next few years. Wonderful.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (12:23):
Pray for my Throat though.
(12:24):
Yes, sir. <Laugh>, thank you. Bless you.
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Suraphael Demissie | Prophet to Ethiopia
Suraphael is a prophet in the nation of Ethiopia. He leads Presence TV which is a 24 hour television station in Ethiopia. In today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast he says that Jesus is coming soon and the church needs to work hard to lead people to Jesus.
See the ministry of Suraphael Demissie on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PRESENCETVCHANNEL
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, prophet cfe from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Suraphael Demissie (00:14):
I’m so happy to meet you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Oh, it’s so good to be here with you. We have just landed here in Addis Ababa. We are here for a great gospel crusade in Kemba. Yes, Ethiopia. I’ve come here to the nation many times. This will be my 10th crusade, I believe, in the nation of Ethiopia. Wow. AndI’m here at the invitation of Per Akvist in the Joshua Campaign. They’ve done many crusades across Ethiopia and he’s a good friend of yours. Yes. And, and so we, we you have together, we we ate dinner tonight. Yeah. And you are telling me some about what God is doing here in Ethiopia. Brother, tell me, what is God doing in this nation?
Suraphael Demissie (00:59):
I have heard about you, pastor and you ministry for the last 10 years, maybe more than that. You had a conference here in Tokyo. What you are seeing here in physical and spiritual change, you have a effort. You have a foot, I mean, hand print on this blessing. So as, as a pastor, Ethiopian pastor as a nation, I have to say thank you first about your work and your ministry in Ethiopia. And so many souls, new souls come to Jesus. You win a lot of new souls so many people get healed, delivered. So it’s a great thing, you know, in <inaudible> Jesus to the people of Ethiopia. So on behalf of Ethiopia, we say thank you. Oh, thank you. Let me come to the, the question what we are seeing here in, to all the world what God is doing and the Holy Spirit in doing it, show that our king Jesus Christ is coming. Hallelujah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:14):
Amen.
Suraphael Demissie (02:15):
Yeah. We are the servant. We are the missioners of the last age, the last days. So gospel in Ethiopia is is burning and is dominating the country. So our government, our prime minister all the government of shall become follower Jesus Christ. There they become believers. So it implied that gospel please doing great here in Ethiopia and changes so many lives.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:55):
Now you have a multifaceted ministry here. You have a church in Hawassa. You have built a beautiful church building here in Addis Ababa. Thank you. And you also have a television ministry called Presence. Yes. And referring to the presence of God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so a few moments ago when we prayed together in your auditorium, I was praying that God would fill the place with his presence. And I didn’t even know that was the name of your TV channel. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it goes 24 hours a day. And because of that, you have become very well known here in Ethiopia. When people hear that you’re are coming, many come to to hear the word of the Lord. And so God has raised you up as a prophet, but you really started your ministry just by putting some videos up on YouTube. Yes. And you were telling me that you went into a internet cafe mm-hmm. <Affirmative> back before there was internet available all over the place. You just went into an internet cafe. And how did you start your YouTube channel?
Suraphael Demissie (04:00):
Thank you for asking me my humble beginning. Yeah. I appreciate it. You know, 10, 10 years ago I was graduating from University of Adi Ababa. When I was in the, in the university, I was a Christian students fellowship leader. I, I used to serve in the fellowship. Then God called me to serve him. So I didn’t go to any office or I didn’t find any job, but I was praying and fasting two years. Then God show me a v a vision with the vision was like I saw in the dream. I saw a big stadium and full of people. And the people who were in the stadium, they were crying and worshiping God and they were watching a video. So I was eager to see that video. And when I closed on the video and when I saw the preacher, that was me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:01):
Wow. So God gave you a vision of your future ministry?
Suraphael Demissie (05:04):
Yes. So I saw a dream about my ministry before I start my ministry. Then I go, only when I wake up from the bed, I prayed and I go to straight to the Internet cafe and ask them to open me a YouTube account. Then they open me, they sign me to a YouTube account, and they give me the password. Then I was a singer, so I had the songs. Then I upload on the YouTube some of my songs, and people were so blessed, and they ask me more and more. Then I start to upload my old sermons, my preg, my songs. Then after it become like boom. So now we have like 340,000 subscribers on TV and hundred million views on YouTube. So my humble beginning is like this.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:59):
I, like you say, boom, <laugh>, God made it happen. Yes. And I think that is so beautiful because you were willing to serve the Lord looking for any way that you could serve, and you just go open a YouTube channel. They give you the password. And now over 314,000 subscribers, over 100 million views, people all over the world, the, the Ethiopian dra dra Yes. Who are all over the world are, are watching and hearing the, the word of the Lord. Yes. On the YouTube channel. And I was watching one of the videos of one of the, the Crusades that you did in Hosana. Yes. And it looked like there were thousands of people there. What did God do?
Suraphael Demissie (06:44):
Yeah. Hosana, the, the more Christian dominating country, which is in thousand part of Ethiopia. So God in the mid nineties spokes to me about hosana, go to Hosana because I have history in God hosana. That’s not my birthplace, or that’s not my, I was raised, but one time, like seven years ago, I went to Hosana for singing. And at that night I was praying, God use me or kill me because I was so give up on ministry. I start my ministry, but the ministry was not going like what I was expecting. So I cried all the night and I said, make it or break it. Kill me or use me. Then I slept. When I woke up from my bed, I, I prayed and I, I go to the, the crusading, Hona I was invited. So when I start to sing, God opens my spiritual eyes and ears, and I saw so many visions. Then after, after that day onwards, I become like a prophet, prophet, prophetic ministry starts in my life, you know? So I have to pay back for God. I want, I want to thank God in that place. So the spirit of God told me, go to Hosana and thank me. Then when I go to Hosana, maybe 1 million people was gathered. So many miracles happened. Wow. So many <inaudible> gets the Muslims, the Orthodox. So this was a history in so powerful conference.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:31):
It’s so amazing what God is doing here in Ethiopia. God is raising this church up, and I believe that God is making you a voice, not just to Ethiopia, not just to Africa, but to the whole world. And so you serve God as a pastor. I think you have also been used by God as an evangelist, but God has given you this gift as a, a prophet. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what is the word of the Lord for the body of Christ today. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. What, what is God speaking to you as a prophet
Suraphael Demissie (09:03):
About this,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:04):
A about what he wants to do in the world during this time. Mm-Hmm.
Suraphael Demissie (09:09):
<Affirmative>, you know, Jesus is coming soon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:11):
Amen.
Suraphael Demissie (09:12):
Hallelu, our king will see him so and versa. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:17):
I know you are a true prophet because that is what God is saying. Jesus is coming soon. He says, behold I come quickly.
Suraphael Demissie (09:23):
Hallelujah. So Jesus is edifying the church. He’s pride.
(09:30):
So we are like hand lake, leg, iron, ear for Jesus. So on, in the, on the last days, Jesus want to use us by his mighty power. You know for the sake of gospel, God do not restrict his his power. You know, he release whatever he has because this is the last time. So the last calling, the last message is preaching now. So God is speaking and working in this case mightly. So so many people is coming to Jesus. We see so many revivals in a world like Asbury University, like, you know, in a different corner of the world. So Jesus is coming soon. We are preaching that. So we expect so many lives
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:27):
Come Jesus. Amen. I believe that is right on mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with what God is saying. Jesus is coming soon. Yes. And we need to make every single second count for God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Well, thank you so much, brother, for being on the Evangelism podcast. If someone is looking for your YouTube channel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, how do they find it? What is your name on the YouTube channel?
Suraphael Demissie (10:48):
Presence TV channel, worldwide
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:50):
Presence TV Channel Worldwide. So I encourage you go and subscribe to the YouTube channel. Receive a blessing from the man of God. And Brother, could we finish today by asking you to pray for those who are watching? Yes. But don’t pray in English. I want you to pray in [inaudible] and just pray a blessing. Amen. Over those who are watching, that God will bless them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:46):
Amen. Thank you, brother for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Suraphael Demissie (11:48):
Thank you for giving me this chance. God bless you. God bless you.
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Barry Meguiar | From Car Crazy to Jesus Crazy
Barry Meguiar is famous for his Car Wax business and for his Car Crazy television show that aired for 18 years on the Discovery Channel. But his real passion is making Jesus famous. On today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast, he talks about how God can use a businessman to share the Gospel with people who need Jesus.
Questions for Barry Meguiar:
- How can God use a businessman to lead people to Jesus?
- What advice would you give to other businessmen who want to share their faith?
- Tell me about your mandate to move everyone, everyday, closer to Jesus.
- What do you mean when you say that “Sharing your faith is not a “Yikes!” but a “Wow!”
- Why do you consider witnessing to be a “team sport?”
- Why did God tell you to make “your business your pulpit?”
Learn more about Barry Meguiar at: igniteamerica.com
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Barry McGuire is famous for his car wax business and for his “Car Crazy” television show that aired for 18 years on the Discovery Channel. But his real passion is making Jesus famous. On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, he talks about how God can use a businessman to share the gospel with people who need Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:39):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:03):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest, Barry McGuire. He is a car wax businessman who also had a tremendous car show called Car Crazy on Discovery Channel for many years. But the thing that he’s really excited about is evangelism. Mr. Berry, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Barry Meguiar (01:33):
Thank you. Greatly honored. And we are soulmates in every respect. We’ve not met me each other before, but we are, we are definitely soulmates. I love everything you say and do I just say it? Amen. Amen. Amen. And and thank you for all that you’re doing and the people you’re influencing to get off the bench and into the game.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:51):
Well, thank you. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was with Steve Strang from Charisma Media and I interviewed him for the Evangelism Podcast. And he says, now I got a guy that you have to meet Barry McGuire. We’re publishing a book for him and he is an evangelist through and through. People think he’s a car guy, but really he’s excited about evangelism. And so,
Barry Meguiar (02:14):
Well, I’m both, I’m both. I am a car guy. I love my business. I love waxing eloquent on cars. And I’m a part of this. There’s 30 million car guys just in the United States. And I love this community. I tend, I often meet Christians at car Guy events and, and the best thing in the world is be Christian, know the Lord and, and be able to enjoy the car hobby because the car, people in the car hobby are really quite special and they’re really exhibiting everything. The scriptures tell us to do. I mean, they’re the most generous, caring people on a global basis. There’s, there’s something about the DNA of a car guy. I know it’s hard for you to understand a few moments, but it’s, it’s crazy. The problem is this, most car guys are so good. They think they’re on their way to heaven because they’re good.
(03:01):
And I find it’s easier to reach a scoundrel with a gospel <laugh> than, than it is a lot of car guys who some, I, I call it chumming. I’m always throwing out chum, you know, just try to get the, get their hunger going. And some, I’ve been doing that for 20, 30 years and they’re just so good. They can’t conceive him of God, who would, who would send them to hell. And I say, he didn’t send you to hell, he didn’t send anybody to hell, you know, but you have to make a choice, you know, and they know who Jesus is. They would swear to Sac of Bible, Jesus, the Son of God. They know that. They, they know that. But the thought of bowing down to him and bending their knees and and giving control of their life horses, it’s because they’ve got, you know, a lot of car rides have, they can do about anything they wanna do. And it just breaks my heart that they could hold onto this world so tightly. Like it’s never gonna go away, but it’s falling apart all around us. So I, I often say even so, a couple more Jesus, but then immediately say, wait a minute, <laugh>, I got too many people. I gotta get on the bus before we get for before we’re outta here. You know, so you know what I’m talking about.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:08):
That’s awesome. Well, I really wanted to ask your perspective as a businessman, cuz a lot of people, they have a, a sense that the great commission telling people about Jesus is the job of the evangelist. Someone like me or like a a pastor, someone who is in the clergy. But you’ve been a businessman your whole life, and yet God has used you in a powerful way in the area of business. How can God use a businessman to bring people to Jesus?
Barry Meguiar (04:40):
Well, first off, let me say, I think you clarified it about us anyway, as well as anybody there, there’s the evangelist, the people that are called to be an evangelist, okay? Then there’s a work of evangelism that we’re all called to. And we are, we’re all, all of us are in full-time ministry. I say, you know, you’re in full-time ministry, whether you like it or not. Everything you say or do is moving people closer or further away from God. If you’re a Christian, people are watching you. And everything you say and do is moving whether you want to or not. You can’t get away from it. <Laugh> you can’t get, you can’t escape it. Everything you say and do is moving everybody watching you closer or further away from God. I often also say you are a witness. You’re already a witness. You may be a witness for the prosecution, <laugh>, but you’re a witness.
(05:28):
People are judging are, are, are making their decision on God based on what they’re saying with Christians. Of course, we know that that’s a pretty sad state right now because most people don’t wanna be like Christians. They look in, they call ’em, I had one last sign I was talking to out in the street, and I, I want God, but I don’t wanna be with Christians. I hate Christians. What a, what a clear, pure commentary on where the church is today. We don’t realize how easily we, we move people away from God. You know, the most common one would be after church on Sunday. We go to church, we go to church, we go out afterwards, probably several of us in a little larger group, a little more demanding, stay a little longer than we should. Talking about God, the waiters server knows they we’re from the church.
(06:17):
You know, my, here, there we go again. And then when they leave, they stiff the waiter, you know? Yeah, dude, they just move that server closer, further away from without even realizing it. Praise God. All right, see you later, <laugh>. And this person, that’s a soul that God loves. It’s just been left devastated. Servers don’t like to work on Sunday afternoons because of church people. So there’s, there’s all kinds of ways that share our faith is that, that non-verbal and, and verbal. But the point is, you gotta be in intent. You gotta realize we’re full-time. It’s full-time. It’s not, not part-time. There’s nothing that you and I do, nothing any of us do is Christians. That’s secular. We meet secular appeal, but there’s no such secular, secular conversation. Every conversation, every intonation, everything we’re doing is sacred. It’s, it’s an opportunity to move in closer to Jesus when you realize that it changes your life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
Now, one of the things I really liked about your new book, ignite Your Life, is that this book is chock full of anecdotes, stories about people that you met, that you helped bring closer to Jesus. Can you share some of those stories with us and, and, and, and tell us about how you can bring people closer to Jesus?
Barry Meguiar (07:31):
Well, first off, you know, the, one of the biggest misconceptions about face sharing is that you’re supposed to share with them and get them on the knees and pray the sins prayer, one step <laugh>. And I started out that way, and I still find people today that think that’s, that’s, that’s the norm. And of course, it’s absurd. It’s, it’s God’s timing. And the average person takes, you know, it’d be 20 encounters before they finally accept the Lord. And we don’t know where we are. Along the scripture’s very clear in that some, some over the seed, so is on, on hard ground. And some it’s furled and some it’s shallow. And so, I mean, that’s, that’s what the scripture say. If we follow what the scripture say, we pretty much ignore about everything. All the evangelism programs say like, you know, get one person saved today.
(08:16):
Okay, well, out of all the people I’m gonna be with today that are going to hell I’m supposed to pick one. Okay? how do I pick that one? And, and then what about all the others? I just let them go to hell. <Laugh>, I mean, help me, help me with this, you know, and living a good life. Most Christ think share living a good life is, is sharing your faith. But living a good life doesn’t get you or anybody else in to heaven. And yet, most evangelicals, I don’t know what that term means anymore, but most people that call themselves evangelicals think that just being good will will get them there. And we’ll move people closer. So if, if attach God to all the good they were doing, we’d be a Christian world because we are doing a lot of good.
(09:00):
But, but it makes us, puffs us up and we feel really good about doing good, you know, and say, well, God must be really proud of you. I was really generous right then. But it brings us glory and not them. So how do you connect? And, and, and I’m sorry, but recitation of a script doesn’t seem to do that real well. I I, I thank God for evangelism approvals. I really do. I know millions of people been brought to the Lord, but because of them, but most of ’em don’t. Most of us don’t go to evangelism programs and we’re not trained. So how do we do it? The real,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:32):
Yeah. I really like one, one story that you shared in here. You said you’re going through an evangelism script and you’d always get to like the second step and you’d lose your place. And then the person you’re talking to would ask a completely different question. You then you’d get mad at them and mad at God. Oh, no. Because they weren’t sticking with the script, and then you’d try and bring them back. All right? So if, if you don’t have a script, how do you live Jesus from the inside so that you can be led in the right direction to helping people come closer to Jesus?
Barry Meguiar (10:02):
That’s, that’s the key question. And, and it comes to me in several ways. You know what Jesus said? They’ll, they’ll know, you’re my disciple by how well you recite your script. No, not actually, no <laugh>, you know, he said, don’t know. You’re my decided by your love. We don’t need training to love on people. And everybody’s starving for love. And when you love on people when they’re hurting, they won’t turn to tears pretty quickly. It’s amazing. People have this smile, but just right on. That’s why we see so much anger today. You do just a little thing wrong. He gets shot today. I mean the, there’s this veneer of smile, but underneath there’s hurt. And when you come to them, not in anger, but you come to them in love, the Holy Spirit confirms it to them. You know, Jerry Root, the author of the Sacrament of Evangels, you probably read that book when he talks about how God’s already celebrated working with each person. When we come in, we enter into the sacred moment, we’re becoming a, a physical manifestation of what God is already putting in their hearts. So it’s this, the every relation, every conversation is, is amazing. And when you love on people, they just, they just open up. Let’s see if I can thi I mean, there’s, they’re <laugh>. I got a million of ’em. I’ve done, Karen and I have been sharing our faith every day for 50 years. Okay,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:21):
That’s amazing. And
Barry Meguiar (11:23):
And because of that, he’s done some amazing things with our lives and our business and whatever. But well, I tell you, I I, I jumped in a taxi one day. I was the Marriott Hotel downtown Detroit. I was going to Cobo Hall, and it was a five minute walk, but it was seven degrees, okay? <Laugh>. So I I jumped in, I said, Hey, I just gotta get a short ride, but I give you a big tip. The guy yells at me, I don’t want a tip. What <laugh>, I don’t want a tip. Excuse me, sir, why don’t you want a tip? I’m a bad person. I don’t deserve a tip. That’s he yelled at. Worse than that, you know, talk about hurting. I, I got so many stories like this. But here’s the thing, mark 1311 says don’t prepare. How do you prepare for those conversations?
(12:12):
You can’t listen. So step one, <laugh>. Oh, and then Luke 1212 says, I’ll give you the word to say when you need them. And that’s the fun part of it, folks, when you just step in and just do it, there’s no preparation that you have nothing. All of a sudden you’re face to face with somebody and their son just committed suicide. Or if they just got the call, they got cancer. I mean, you can’t prepare those conversations. And when you just love on them and tear with them and generally love on them, and then the Holy Spirit gives you the words to say it’s, it’s the craziest thing. There’s no other way to have this kind of intimacy with God than to allow God to speak to you. See this life in front of you changing. In this case, I said this, man do you know God loves you?
(12:56):
No <laugh>. I said, yeah, he loves you. No, he just, he’s so angry, poor man. I said, sir, I I, I’m a student of the Bible. I’m a Christian and I know the Bible really well, and I can tell you for sure absolutely positive, he loves you. Now. He says nothing. I said, you know what? Even, even better do, do you know he loves you as much? He’s ever loved anybody ever dead quiet. I said, you know, it gets even better than that. You know, he loves you. I’m laughing, telling him, I said, do you realize that God loves you as much as he loves his own son, Jesus Christ, that’s how much he loves you. Dead quiet over now, where Coha I get out, it’s snowing. I remember the salt in the windows, the windows going down. He’s looking at me like He <laugh>, he’s speechless.
(13:49):
He’s never heard this. He thinks God hates you. It’s over. And I said, you know sir, God put me in your taxi just now because he wants you to know that he loves you and he wants you to spend attorney with him. And then I gave him a really big tip. I said, God bless you. Have a great day, <laugh>. And I walked, yes, <laugh>. Did I get him saved? Of course not. Did I move him closer to Jesus? You better believe it. I may have stayed you committing suicide that day. And so that basic theme, there’s so many ways to say that never. People come in, they, they have this sentence, they set ’em, everybody, if you were to die today, do you know you go to heaven? Whatever. They’re, they have a million of these things and they do every over and over with everybody.
(14:34):
Well, everybody is an everybody. Each person’s an individual. And you allow the Holy Spirit. And the moment you go to script, it gets plastic. It’s static. Cuz something, it’s like you just say it because that’s what you’re supposed to say. But when you love on people, when we love on our friends, we don’t recite a script, have anything prepared. We just love on them. We’re broken for them. And when we do that, people break and they, within five minutes, they’re telling you, you know how it works. Within five minutes, they’re telling you things they won’t tell their best friends. And then you know the point of need. Then God gives you the scriptures and you see the change in front of your eyes and you’re praying, you’re hugging. I I, I pulled up the other day in front of a, a restaurant, my friend, it was kind of an open parking lot, but for some reason he pulled this place right in front of us was a, was a black guy and a tank top tattoo, dreadlocks, all filling his radiator with a great big bottle of water, <laugh>, you know, so I, I said, Hey, can I help you?
(15:33):
He said, no, I got under control. I just have a leaky radiator and I just driven here from Alabama and just, just got in town and I just made sure I had to make sure I have a lot of water. And I said, so what you doing? So I found out that he left his wife and and daughter at home to get a job. He found he could drive a truck if you driven a truck. No, but I have a friend here. He says, I can drive a truck. All of a sudden I’m talking about God’s plan for his life. And he’ll, God wants to guide and direct him and take all that fear off and help. When I was a kid, I didn’t know what I was doing, and I didn’t know where I was gonna go. I had, I was kinda the same situation.
(16:06):
I just prayed, you know, trust the Lord with your whole heart game, all this stuff. Before we know it, we’re praying, he’s hugging me, <laugh>. And then we have a little card we give people. At the end of every conversation like that, we have a little card says, seeking God, little business card, seeking God. You can order ’em for free. There’s, there’s no cost to, and it’s a robust site that tells them everything they need to know. It’s testable, these videos to buy whatever. It would take them easily from no knowledge of God to the sinners prayer. And so rather than just leaving somebody like that well, I hope they find a church somewhere. You give them the card and say, would you like to know more about God? They say, yes. I said, oh, here’s a card. You can have it tell you everything you want to know. I mean,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:49):
That’s amazing
Barry Meguiar (16:50):
Privilege of doing that. It’s so, it’s so much fun. It gives you joy when you’re, when you’re bearing fruit. John 1511 says, when you bear fruit, my joy remain with you. And, and your joy remain full. If you wanna have joy, this who, who knew <laugh> having joy is directly connected with bearing fruit, with loving our neighbors. It is the great commission after all,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:12):
<Laugh>. Yeah, your joy is really infectious. It makes me want to go out and, and witness right now and lead someone to Jesus. Because you’re right, the Bible says that all the angels of heaven rejoice when one sinner gets saved. And there’s no feeling like that feeling of, of bringing someone to the point where they, they make Jesus the Lord of their life and they turn away from hell and turn towards heaven. I mean, that is such a, a joyful occasion. Another idea that you have, that I really love is that you consider witnessing to be a team sport. Can you explain what that means and, and why you feel that it’s a team sport?
Barry Meguiar (17:50):
Yeah, well, take the gentleman and the and and the taxi driver. You know, did I get him saved? No, I I, I maximized my time with him. I had a five minute window and I moved him down the line that didn’t get him saved. But God is sovereignly moving each person. And it is a team sport. It is a team sport. What if I, on the times when I lead somebody, the Lord, and that’s a very small percentage of all the people I talk with, but I know there, there may have been 20 people before me, so I’m celebrating not that look what I did, but look what God did through a whole bunch of us, and we won’t know till we get to heaven. All the people played a, a role in that, you know? So yeah, God uses Christians, he brings us in.
(18:33):
He orchestrates their steps and or steps. It’s amazing how that happens. I mean, I got all kinds of stories and I can tell you one just real quick. I, I was going to dinner and I had to get their first so I could give the waiter my credit card before my friend got, there was always a contest between who and to get the bill, right? So my Uber app didn’t work. I said, Karen, we gotta get outside the hotel to, to so the Uber app worked, so we get out. It didn’t work outside either. So Karen says better, you better get that taxi right there. So I said, okay, Sarah, I I, I’ll take that taxi. He says, that taxi’s smoking for, well, there was nobody around me. I said, spoken for. He says, yeah, look back. There’s a lady way back at the right by the front door.
(19:14):
And it was her taxi. I said, well, how long will it take to get a taxi? He’s owe about 15 minutes. Becauses a busy time. And, and I blood star. I said, <laugh>, I gotta get to this restaurant, right? So finally I hear, sir, sir, and I turned around and this lady, and she says, just take my taxi. I said, w why would I do that? She’s my husband’s upstairs. I don’t know what he’s doing. <Laugh>, I don’t know how long you can just take this taxi. I’ll take the next taxi. I said, okay. We’d jump in the taxi and burp. We’re spinning rubber of the guy in, in his first sentence of profanity. What the hell? You know, where, where the hell do you wanna go? I forget how he said it. It was just like, wow. So we started, God
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:59):
Brought us another one.
Barry Meguiar (20:01):
He brought us another one. You know, I mean, it’s so much fun. If you, if you’re not thinking about Spur, you’re saying, let me get out of this car as fast as I can. But when you have these things, how do you realize God’s in it? It’s like an adventure. It’s so you ask questions and you find out his wife just died from painful cancer. Agging cancer she’d been through for months, couldn’t stop the pain she had just died. He had to work. His kids were outta control and total com, com rebellion. He was just beside himself. And God gave you the script just so easy. He just effortly say, effortly say, I said, Jesus, you know, Jesus says, come under me all who are all of you who are heavy burden, and I’ll give you rest burden, heavy aid. I’ll give you rest.
(20:45):
And he yells at the same intensity, man, do I need to rest <laugh>. So we’re, we’re feeding him scriptures, Karen and I both, we finally get there, we get outta the taxi. And I said to him, he said, I need to get in church. I said to him, if, if you would trust me with your, where, where you live and your cell number, I’ll find a church for you and, and send it to you. So you know we’re, oh, would you do that? So he’s writing it all down. I said, can I pray for you? He said, yes. So the three of us in front of the headlights of the taxi, in front of the restaurant, people walking in, and we laughed later about how that must have looked and we’re praying and we’re all tearing and just, just emotionally involved with each other. My point is this, he, he had to stop my Uber app.
(21:30):
Think of what he went through for that. That guy was hungry for God. He didn’t know, but he was hungry for God. He was right. So he, God starts my Uber app from working. He keeps the, the gal’s husband upstairs, right? He gives her the generosity, say, go ahead and take my taxi. And then it happened to be his taxi at that moment who look at all he orchestrated, make it so I had the opportunity to share it with him. I didn’t know the end of the story. There’s other people involved, other team players in the part of that story who know glory. But to be a part of the team and, and just get off the bench. If you’re sitting on the bench, you at to peak and, and everything falls apart, you no longer have hunger for the word. You’re no longer praying, everything falls down.
(22:14):
You’re at worry. 80% of all Christians are in fear right now, living in fear right now. It’s tragedy. But when you’re sharing your faith, nobody has to tell you to read your Bible. Man, you’re digging as fast as you can, try to get answers to all the questions. And you being asked, you say, God, help me. I don’t know what I’m doing. Help me. Thank you for ringing Bob into my life. And I pray and you’re praying and everything’s working. It’s the whole, your whole spiritual life is working. You’re alive. That’s why he says he wants us to share of faith. And I’ll give you one last scripture, which is powerful. Do you know, there’s actually a scripture says, why from from Genesis to Revelations. He says, do it. But in Isaiah 43 10, he says, why? He says, I appoint you as my witness so that you’ll believe, so that you’ll believe. Now I would say so that they will believe. No, he says so and he didn’t say this show. You’ll believe more. He says so that you will believe. That’s why he wants you to share your faith. Because once you step into that world, your entire life changes. And it’s joy every day. Every day is joy. It’s adventure. It’s, it’s ignites your life. That’s a good name for a book Ignites Your Life, <laugh>,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:25):
Hey, that is a good name for a book. And you’ve written it, ignite your life. Now, one of the things about car Guys is that you, you never have to convince a car guy to talk about his car. All you do is ask the first question and then they can talk forever about all the details, everything they’ve upgraded and, and polished and made it in
Barry Meguiar (23:45):
Minutia. Yes,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
<Laugh>. And, and I think the same should be true as Christians. We shouldn’t fear sharing our faith with others. If you love Jesus as much as a car guy loves his car, then you’ll talk about Jesus everywhere you go. Do you think that’s true?
Barry Meguiar (24:01):
Oh God, there’s no question. It’s, it’s true. Here’s the point. Whatever you’re excited about to talk about, I’m excited about cars, I’m excited about shiny finishes. So I love talking to you about how I can make a perfect finish in your car. Use McGuire’s car wax. It will look like a jewel. And I, I’m so excited about talking about that. I’m excited about that. So I talk about it a lot. Question for all of you listening to us right now, or are you, are you talking about God much? If, if you’re not talking about God much, you, I’m not saying you’re not going to heaven, you’re on your way to heaven, but I’m talking about having fun and doing what you’re supposed to do. If you’re talking about God, if you’re not talking about God, then he probably is no longer your first love.
(24:45):
And the easiest way to describe that is a new Christian, you know, a new Christian. You can’t stop them from sharing their faith because God, you just save me for help. <Laugh>, I’m on my way to heaven. He’s my first love. So next year you’re gonna share it, you know, and in, at the letter, in the letter to the church at Ephesus, in the revelations chapter two, he says, I, I, I thank, I know you’re doing all the good stuff and you give sacrificially, you know, good teaching for bad, you know all that. You’re there, but I have this against you. You’ve left your first love and, and you’re no longer doing the first work. The first thing every Christian does is share their faith. If you’re no longer loving him first, then you’re no longer sharing him. So if you go to Romans that’s repeated over and over, love your neighbor as yourself, as you’re, if you’re as concerned for your neighbor as you are for yourself, as concerned for their salvation as you are for yourself, you, you, that’ll, your whole conversation will be different, right?
(25:43):
You, you’ll do everything you can to get them into heaven. So you’ll fulfill all 10 commandments because of the two. Because now it’s not out of obligations, because I don’t wanna do anything. Can I indulge and do that? Can I look at that? Can I laugh at go to heaven? Yeah, sure. But does that helping you get people to Jesus? That’s the question. And the big one is Romans a 28, probably the most, maybe the second most well-known and mis misunderstood scripture in the Bible where he says, I’ll make God sense. He doesn’t lie. I’ll make everything in your life work together for good. Wow. Take if you knew God was going to make everything work for good in your life, even the bad stuff, take everything. That’s his promise to you. But there’s two things you have to do to get there. One is God, having him His first love, loving him more than anything else, nothing separating us.
(26:32):
And secondly, in the part that’s hardly ever preached, if you love me, to those who love me, to those who live for my purpose, not your purpose, stop trying to find your purpose. He didn’t have a purpose for you. He has a plan for you to fulfill his purpose. His, there’s no question on that theologically, his purpose is to seek and save the loss. And so when you live your life to seek and save the loss, to live your neighbor as yourself, to love God first and do the first work it all, the whole weight of scripture comes down to this point. When you do that, then you’re in sync with God, and then you have God flowing through you. And that’s when you know nobody can take your faith away from you. 80% of Christians need to hear this today. 80% of Christians are living in fear.
(27:21):
If you’re living in fear, you can’t li you’re not living in faith. If you don’t have faith, you can’t share your faith. That’s the bottom line for us. We gotta get people out of fear. And it’s so easy. Just do the basic simple things. God tells to do love on people. I had, I had a lady at, at our home this weekend and a great duress. She loves the Lord, but save just having a heyday with her. And it was so easy to change her from this, this poor me thing, folks. She was just confessing, confessing, confessing, bad stuff, all this bad stuff, you know better than this. You know, the scriptures, let me just remind you. And over a period of a day, all of a sudden, she just, she just hugged me before I, I came and joined you. She goes, I can’t join.
(28:07):
I got my mojo back. I’m back. I’m good. I just <laugh>. And it was just understanding the truth that she already knew. It. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like Pat Boone wrote a book a long time ago. It’s like having a big check account and not cashing any checks with it. God wants to pour out his blessings on us, but we restrict him by our lack of faith. If we don’t have, if we don’t have faith, if we’re wavering, if we’re part of the 80% that have fear, then we follow that category in James one where he says, if you’re wavering, I don’t, I don’t, don’t expect me to answer any of your prayers. You may be praying like crazy. I’ve done that in the past. I’ve been 50 years doing this. And I went through a two and a half period year period where I was worrying like crazy.
(28:48):
I was trusting, I knew God was solve, put solve the problems sometime, but I was worrying like crazy in the meantime. And a preacher on the radio said to me, said one day as I was driving down the street, who’s your God? I, well, I got that one straight. Okay, that one, he’s, I ain’t gonna have to get Who’s your God? I thought, oh, I’ve heard f i I started change the, I’ll tell you who’s your God, but whatever feels your prayers is your God. And we are so easily prone to pray for this ministry or this urgency, or this problem, or this cancer or whatever the problem is. And it’s like, God, help us, help me with my God <laugh>, you just can’t do that. God is God. He will never let us down. And when, when we’re in perfect harmony with God, when we live for his purpose, to seek and save the loss, and when you do that, it, it ignites your life, guaranteed. It’s so simple, <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:43):
That’s awesome. Well, as a minister, I wanna say thank you to you as a businessman because over the years you’ve been very successful in business, but you haven’t just kept all your success for yourself. You’ve also done a, you’ve helped so many other ministries. You’ve helped James Dobson with Focus on the Family, David Wilkerson, the Assemblies of God Missions Board. You have poured your time and talents back into the kingdom of God. And I think that’s so valuable for businessmen to understand that they have a very essential role to play in the kingdom of God. And, and so what advice would you give to businessmen who want to be used by God in a powerful way?
Barry Meguiar (30:25):
What a great question. You know, at, at one point I thought God was calling me into full-time ministry. And it was, believe it or not, it was 1976, okay? 1976. And I, I prayed the most fervor fair of my life. I, I, I love my business, I love everything about my business. I, I, I could see where we were just starting retail. Now we’re the number one selling car wax in the country right there. We’re just starting. And I had this dream, I believe God gave it to me. This was my baby. But I was feeling like he was taking me into full-time ministry because I was having so much fun sharing my faith. And so I prayed, I said, God, if you want me to leave my business and go into full-time ministry, I will do that. I, I said it through tears.
(31:10):
I will do that, but I’m almost gonna have to hear from you with an audible voice because I need to know for sure. And if it’s for sure that I’m gone, I’m, I’m with you all the way either whatever way you want me to go. So about 20 minutes later, a a a guy came into my office, secretary said, there’s a Dave MCT here to see you. And I thought, well, that’s strange. I knew this guy. I didn’t really know this guy. He, he, he tended my church, but I didn’t know him. He’d spoken from the platform a couple times. So I knew he was a missionary kid, grew up in Africa about my same age, but I’d never even exchanged a glance with him. Here he is walking into my office. And I said, well, hi Dave, how you doing? He, I was in the area, thought I’d stop by and just ask how’s, how’s it going?
(31:54):
So I made a snap decision. He wasn’t into shiny paint finishes. So I, I started telling you about experience I was having, and this was the defining moment of my life. And I think it answers your question. He said, God’s given you a wonderful ministry here, hadn’t he? I said, wait a minute, maybe after you pray the prayer, that was a pretty astounding statement. He was raise, I’d seen them overlapping, but still, I’m a businessman. I’m a Christian. I see these two different things. He, he says God’s given you a wonderful ministry here, hadn’t he? And I said, why would you say that? He said, well, a, a pastor can’t reach the people you’re reaching, but as a businessman, you can. And he gave me this line in 1976, it’s obvious that your business is your pulpit. Wo that means they’re overlapping.
(32:45):
There’s no separation. My business is my pulpit. Yeah, it was amazing. I just, oh my goodness. So I told you, I just prayed this prayer, not 20 minutes ago. He told that, explains it. I said, explains what? He always drive me up Red Hill. I just dropped missionaries off at Orange County Airport in Irvine. I was driving up Red Hill, the closest main street to my office. And he said, and God spoke to me and said, go see Barry McGuire. And I’d seen your building, I’d seen your name on it. I put together with the name at church. But I, I argue with God all the way to your office saying, I don’t know this guy. I don’t know what kind of business he’s in. I you gonna make a fool outta myself, but God wouldn’t let me go. What if he had not been obedient?
(33:28):
I I would’ve been a failure as a pastor, not a pastor. I’m a full-time ministry, whether I’m not a pastor, my business, my Pope, but wherever you are, folks, if you’re in business, your business is your pulpit. It’s secondary. Don’t ever let that capture your prayers and, and your joy. Don’t ever God, your joy’s in God. And we love him. The more I spent time serving him and sharing him, the more he blessed my business. Like there’s a wake behind me. I keep looking at, my business keeps getting bigger. Now I’m working hard for the business. But my joy, my everything, my focus is how can I, even when I get turned down in sales calls, my goal is I wanted to move them closer to Jesus <laugh>. I don’t care if I get the sale. Cause I know when I live that way, he promises me that everything’s gonna work for good.
(34:11):
You live in this promise. That promise is yours. He’s promising you, I’ll make everything your life work together for good if you, when you live for my purpose. It’s so simple. And, and who knew it works <laugh>. I mean, the scriptures actually work. And after 50 years in this tiny little business to where we are now and the influence we have to move people closer to Jesus. And it’s a joy. It’s just so much joy. Take my business away from me. Take my house. I don’t care. I got joy. You know? And it, it just ignites your life. I mean, I think you enjoy the book because it tells a lot of it. It’s, it’s a book of scriptures. The scriptures will set you free. The the scriptures will ignite your life. My life story is just trappings around it to kind of put in perspective what the word of God is really saying.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:58):
Well, if you’re listening, I encourage you to get a copy of the book. It’s called Ignite Your Life by Barry McGuire. This would be a great book to read. And if you have someone in your life who is enthusiastic about cars, maybe grandpa or an uncle who has a, an old car that they, they love to wax and polish, this would be a great book to give them, to be a witness to them. I, I guarantee they’ve heard of Barry McGuire and they, they would love hearing the story of how excited he is about sharing his faith. And if you wanna be excited about sharing your faith, get a copy of this book. It will really encourage you. I’d also encourage you to go to the website, ignite america.com for more information about Barry McGuire and Brother Barry, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I just love your enthusiasm. I love your joy, and it really is a pleasure to get to know you. God bless you,
Barry Meguiar (35:53):
Greatly honored, greatly honored. Bless you, Daniel.
Evangelism Podcast Host (35:55):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real. You’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more Is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? In his powerful, easy to read book, Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen to good people? “Proof God is Real” Daniel King shows you, God is there and he cares for you. Plus, how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order “Proof God is Real” today by calling 1-877-431-4276 or find the book on Amazon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:58):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:19):
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Ray Comfort | So Many Lions, So Few Daniels
Ray Comfort is a Christian evangelist and author who is known for his efforts to evangelize and defend the Christian faith. He is the founder and CEO of Living Waters, a ministry that focuses on evangelism and apologetics, and he is the co-host of the television program “The Way of the Master,” which teaches believers how to share the gospel with others.
Comfort was born in New Zealand in 1949 and became a Christian at the age of 18. He has written numerous books on the Christian faith, including “God Doesn’t Believe in Atheists,” “Hell’s Best Kept Secret,” and “Evolution: The Fairy Tale for Grownups.”
Comfort is known for his controversial and confrontational approach to evangelism and he is a significant figure in the world of Christian evangelism and apologetics. He often uses the Ten Commandments to share the Gospel. His YouTube channel has over 200,000,000 views.
On today’s Evangelism Podcast I Ray Comfort him some difficult questions about his theology, let’s hear how he answers them…
Learn more about Ray Comfort and the Living Waters Ministry: https://livingwaters.com/
Questions for Ray Comfort:
You have written over 100 books. What is unique about “So Many Lions, So Few Daniels”?
Let’s talk through a couple of scenarios of how you present the Gospel to people:
- You meet a guy on the street who loves to party. He is drinking and cussing. What do you say to him?
- You are affectionately known by atheists as “Banana Man” because of an illustration you once gave using a banana. You meet a girl who says she is an atheist. What do you say to her about her belief in evolution?
Why do you focus so much on the Ten Commandments in your witnessing?
I have two big questions about how you witness. The first big question is in how you begin your conversation and the second big question is in how you end your conversations.
- When you start witnessing, you usually emphasize the sinfulness of humanity instead of talking about the love of God. Bill Bright, who founded Campus Crusade for Christ, taught people to witness using the Four Spiritual Laws which starts with the idea that “God Loves You and He has a Wonderful Plan for Your Life.” Romans 2:4 says “The goodness of God leads you to repentance.” So why do you emphasize the law of God instead of the goodness of God?
- After you present the Gospel, I never see you ask people to pray a prayer of salvation. Why don’t you close the deal? Why don’t you pray a prayer of salvation with people or give altar calls? What is a false conversion?
The name of your TV program is “The Way of the Master.” When Jesus walked the earth, He healed lots of sick people so if you really want to follow the way of the Master, what role should miracles play in the ministry of the evangelist? When Philip the Evangelist preached in Samaria, many people were healed. Do you believe that God can use physical healing in order to draw people to Jesus?
Your first book is “Hell’s Best Kept Secret.” You are quite critical of large evangelistic meetings led by evangelists like Billy Graham and Luis Palau. You emphasize that with modern evangelistic methods, 80% of the people who are reported to be saved end up backsliding. What do you think is the solution to this problem?
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
His YouTube channel has over 200 million views. Ray Comfort is a Christian evangelist and author who is known for his efforts to evangelize and defend the Christian faith. He’s the founder and c e o of Living Waters, a ministry that focuses on evangelism and apologetics. And he’s the co-host of the television program, the Way of the Master, which teaches believers how to share the gospel with others. He was originally born in New Zealand. He became a Christian at the age of 18, and he’s written over a hundred books, including God Doesn’t Believe In Atheist, hell’s Best Kept Secret and Evolution, the Fairytale for Growing Up. Today we talk about his new book called So Many Lions, so Few Daniels Comfort is known for his controversial and confrontational approach to evangelism. He often uses the 10 Commandments to share the gospel. On today’s evangelism podcast, I ask Ray Comfort some difficult questions about his theology. Let’s hear how he answers my questions.
Evangelism Podcast Host (01:22):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:47):
Welcome to The Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Ray Comfort. He is a phenomenal YouTube evangelist, over 200 million views on his YouTube channel. He goes out on the streets and tells people about Jesus. Brother, comfort, thank you so much for being with me today.
Ray Comfort (02:13):
It’s an honor to be with you, Daniel. Thanks to having me on.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:16):
Man, I have learned so much from your ministry over the years. I’ve watched many of your YouTube videos. I’ve been watching you go out on the street and talking to, to people, uh, about the, the 10 Commandments. And, uh, you have just, uh, published a new book. It’s called So Many Lions, so Few Daniels. Now, you’ve published over a hundred books. What is unique about this one?
Ray Comfort (02:47):
Well, it’s, I think it’s a book for our time. We are living in very, very dark times. Let me tell you what inspired me to write the book besides God, A Hope. Um, it was a poster or a t-shirt put out by atheists. It was, uh, too many Christians, not enough lions. And I thought, how sick is that? That’s like saying too many blacks, not enough lynching ropes, too many Jews, not enough Nazis, uh, too many Christians, not enough lions. And that made me really mad. So an atheist inspired the book So Many Lions, so few Daniels, which is what we’ve got. We’re living in a dark time, a time of tremendous godliness, or godlessness, should I say, tremendous darkness. I was just reading this morning, we’ve had something like 37 mass shootings in the us, just this sheriffs, not even the end of the first month of the share.
(03:40):
Um, over 1300 people died through being shot in mass shootings. And it traces it back to traces itself, back to lawlessness. Uh, Jesus said, inequity shall unbound, which means lawlessness. There’s a forsaking of the 10 Commandments. And when you do that, forsake the fear of God. And if you don’t fear God, you can cover what you want, lie to whom you want, steal from whom you want. You can commit adultery, you can blaspheme God’s name, and you can kill people without qualms of conscience because your understanding of God is erroneous. So we need Daniels, uh, men and women of God who will step up to the plate, who will not who’ll be fearless and faithful. You think of what Daniel was. He was a man that didn’t care what the world thought. He wasn’t a man pleaser. Uh, they said, don’t praise flung as windows open, the Bible tells us and said, I don’t care what you think.
(04:30):
I only care what God thinks. And that’s the attitude that we must have as Christians. We don’t care what this world thinks in the sense we don’t want their praise. We want the smile of God. And if you look at what Daniel had, he had faith. That’s all he had. And I take great consolation on the fact that I am not tall. I can’t sing. I can’t dance. Um, there’s a lot of stuff that I was behind the door when the talent was given out, but I can have faith. Anyone can have faith. Doesn’t matter how tall or short you are at gifted, you are how you can jump, how much you can sing. You can have faith, and that’s what Daniel had. And that’s all it takes for God to use. You just trust him with all your heart. And that’s what we need Daniels to step up and be counted.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:11):
Well, since my first name is Daniel, I must say I give a hardy endorsement to this book. I think we do need more Daniels. And, uh, of course, growing up as a little boy, Daniel was always my hero, uh, being thrown into the lion’s den. And often when you go out and talk to people about Jesus, it feels like you are being thrown into a lion’s den because the people start to yell at you, cuss you out. They they have all these questions, and that’s something that you do on a regular basis. And so I was wondering if we could walk through a few scenarios of what you say to people when you’re out witnessing. And you have lots of these in the book, different interviews you have with people. But uh, let’s say you’re, you go out on the street in Huntington Beach and you meet a guy who, he’s got tattoos all over. He having a party, he wants to party, he’s got a, a beer in one hand, and he is cussing people out. What do you say to him about God?
Ray Comfort (06:16):
You know, I’m gonna share something with you. I’ve never shared with anyone because it just happened this morning. This morning. My daughter and a husband, Emils Wayne Ey, the president of our ministry were woken at 5:00 AM by a guy ringing the doorbell. He wearing a hoodie, was dark, then he came round to the window of their bedroom and just stood there. And my daughter was terrified. Her daughter was terrified, easy flung up in the window and says, what do you want? And you know what, it was a guy who had smelt smoke coming from their house. Their wiring had got something wrong with it, and he came and put that fire out. And so if, if someone wakes you at five o’clock in the morning, you’re gonna be kind of annoyed with them and till you smell the smoke, and suddenly that annoyance turns to absolute gratitude.
(07:04):
This guy became a hero. And so this morning, when I go around the local college, which I do twice a day, take my dog on a bike, I’m gonna say to someone, how would you feel if someone woke you up at five o’clock in the morning banging on your doorbell? You’d say, what, what? What does this guy want? He’s really annoying me. But when you smell the smoke, your annoyance will change to gratitude. So I’m gonna take you through the commandments and what’s gonna happen is you’re gonna be annoyed with me banging on your door. But as we go through, you’re gonna smell some smoke and it’s gonna change your attitude. And so when I meet someone with tattoos or somebody who’s a little scary, my agenda is to show him he’s in great danger. It’s not to convince him to give his heart to Jesus because he’s got something missing in his life. The fact is he is in danger of death seizing upon him and his sins dragging him to hell. And that horrifies me. And I want to alert him to his danger. And once he sees his danger, once that makes sense, that he’s in big trouble with the Lord, then the gospel will make sense. So that’s my agenda, and that’s why I’m not fearful because the lions have no teeth. They’re just gums,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:07):
<laugh>. And, and so you would often go straight to the 10 Commandments and, and take people through some of the 10 Commandments. Could could we, uh, role play and, and and, and talk through the, the way that you would
Ray Comfort (08:20):
Offer it? Sure. I’ve done this before with some other guy I used to do a television program with, so I can handle it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:26):
<laugh>. Okay. So, so come up and, and, and pretend like you’re talking to me and, and, uh, let’s, let’s go through what you often say about the 10 Commandments.
Ray Comfort (08:36):
Yeah, sure. Well, let’s do, uh, what I’ll do, what I’m, uh, what I do when I go to the, the local college, say, uh, Hey, would you like to go on YouTube?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:43):
Sure, let’s do it.
Ray Comfort (08:45):
Boy, that’s unusual. Most people say, what’s it about? What’s it about? So I say, it’s a channel over 200 million views. And, uh, I wanna ask you if you think there’s an afterlife, do you think there’s an afterlife?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:55):
Maybe? I don’t know. Who knows? I, I believe there’s an afterlife, but I I wanna play the part of the person that you’re witnessing.
Ray Comfort (09:02):
Yeah. You play the part of a nasty skeptic.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:04):
Yeah. So
Ray Comfort (09:05):
Do you think about it much? What, what, so let me ask you, what’s your name?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:08):
Uh, my name’s Daniel.
Ray Comfort (09:10):
Daniel. Do you think about death?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:12):
Well, I think everyone thinks about death.
Ray Comfort (09:15):
Are you afraid of dying?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:16):
Sure. I think everyone is.
Ray Comfort (09:19):
Yeah, that’s true. The bible actually says that, that every human being is haunted by the fear of death all their lifetime. And that, that, that’s a terrifying thing to think that death is gonna take you and take your loved ones, take a dog, take your grandma, and eventually take you. And it could even come today or tonight. Did you know the Bible tells us that God destroyed death? Did you know that?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:39):
Well, what, what if I don’t believe in the Bible?
Ray Comfort (09:43):
Well, that doesn’t matter. The Bible’s the worst world’s big, biggest selling book of all time. And it’s popular because it answers the great questions that humanity has. It tells us why we are alive, why we die, and what we can do about our biggest problem, death itself. Do you know what death is caused by? I don’t mean hit by a truck, but you dunno what the Bible says. Death actually is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:04):
What? What is death?
Ray Comfort (10:05):
Death is wages. God is paying you in death for your sins. The Bible says the wages of sinners death. Like a judge looks at a criminal that’s murdered multiple people. He says, you’ve earned the death sentence. This is your wages. This is what’s due to you. And Daniel’s sin is so serious in the eyes of a holy God, it’s not in our eyes, but in God’s eyes, it’s so serious. He’s given you the death sentence. The wages of sinner’s death. And your death will be, the ev will be evidence to you that God is deadly serious about sin. I got a question for you. For you, Daniel, do you think God is justified in giving you a death sentence? Are you that evil or do you think you’re a good person? Well,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:40):
You know, I don’t really sin that much. I mean, I’m a pretty good person. I I do what’s good. I, I’d like to, you,
Ray Comfort (10:47):
You said sin that much. What are you talking about? What, what much? You’re talking about you’re lusting after woman looking at pornography. Is that what you mean?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:54):
Well, um, I don’t wanna answer that question.
Ray Comfort (10:57):
<laugh>. So you’re gonna play the fifth. What does that say?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:01):
<laugh> Uhhuh. <affirmative>.
Ray Comfort (11:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Jesus said if you look at a woman in lust for who you commit adultery with her in your hearts. So obviously you’ve got red blood and your veins, and you do what every guy does and look at woman inappropriately. Well, the Bible says you committed adultery when you do that. Yeah. And so we’re beginning to smell the smoke. You know, I’m knocking on your door, making you feel uncomfortable, but the smoke is appearing. Have you lied and stolen?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:23):
Well, I, I mean, maybe a little white lie from time to time.
Ray Comfort (11:27):
What color was it?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:28):
Uh, oh. You know, a white lie. Not, not a serious lie. Just, just a little lie.
Ray Comfort (11:33):
That’s a little lie. Have you ever stolen something, something a little and white?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:36):
Uh, sure. I mean, you know, uh, I stole a pen at, at school one time from, from one of my friends.
Ray Comfort (11:43):
Yeah. The value of that which is steal is irrelevant. If you open my wallet and take $1 out, you’re as much a thief as if you took $15 out. And so, Daniel, oh, have you ever used God’s name in vain?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:55):
Well, beepity beep beep beep. <laugh> <laugh>.
Ray Comfort (12:00):
Do you know, you just confirmed the truth of the Bible when it says you’re an enemy of God in your mind, through wicked works, there’s no greater contempt you can show of someone than to use their name as a cuss word. And that’s what you’ve done on the name of God, the one that gave you life in a family and eyesight and hearing and all the blessings of this life. So here’s a summation. Let’s ever again smell the smoke. Daniel, you have told me you’re relying thieving blas, adult at heart, and you have to face God on judgment day. Are you gonna be innocent or guilty when he judges you by the commandments?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:31):
Well, I guess anyone who is judged by the commandments would say that they’re guilty,
Ray Comfort (12:38):
Are you going to heaven or hell?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:41):
Well, if you’re guilty, I guess God would send you to hell.
Ray Comfort (12:44):
Yeah. So we can smell the smoke. So I’m not your adversary banging on your door. I’m someone that cares about you and wants to see you save. The Bible actually likens what I’m doing to saving someone from fire. It says in the book of Jo, uh, Jude, others save with fear, pulling them, pulling them from the fire. You are so close to death in hell. And I’m trying to pull you to safety now. And then I preach the cross that Christ died for our sins, took the punishment for us, rose again on the third day. And I say, Daniel, you need to repent. Trust Christ cuz you can die tonight. And so often people say, yeah man, this is making me think.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:22):
Yeah, it’s, it’s so powerful. And especially I love appreciate the cross. Uh, that’s the, the, the core of the gospel message. Let let’s do a, a another scenario. Um, what would you say to atheists if you meet a a a girl who, uh, says that she’s an atheist, she doesn’t believe in God. And, uh, atheists actually have a nickname for you. They affectionately call you the, the banana man because of a, I don’t know
Ray Comfort (13:48):
If it’s affectionately <laugh>, they mockingly
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:51):
Mockingly and uh, you know, from an illustration that you gave, uh, about a banana. And so they’ve, uh, made fun of you for that. But it’s opened the door for you to share the gospel with many atheists. And, and so what are some of the things that you say to atheists to make them think about heaven and hell and about whether there really is a God?
Ray Comfort (14:13):
Well, there’s a very, very simple way to make atheist s backslide. You just have to ask this one question, and you have to be very clear what you mean by it. I say, so Frieda, you’re an atheist. She says, yeah. So tell me this, Frieda, do you really believe the, the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything, because that’s what an atheist defaults to it. Either God created everything or nothing, created everything. I’m not saying you believe there was nothing in the beginning. I’m saying you believe that nothing was the force that created flowers and birds and trees and puppies and kittens and seasons and fruits and all these things that we see around us were all created nothing, which is scientifically ludicrous. Is that what you believe? And she’ll say, well, well, I I really, I I don’t believe that nothing created things. So I’ll say, you’re not an atheist.
(15:02):
You’re an agnostic. You think something created everything just wasn’t the God of the Bible. She says, yeah, that’s what I believe. Something did create everything, but it just wasn’t the God of the Bible. So I said, let’s see if we can find out why you don’t want it to be the God of the Bible. And you find out that she’s living in fornication and lying and stealing and blaspheming. And it’s not an intellectual issue, it’s the moral issue. But it’s so important Daniel not to be condescending and, uh, to have a tone where, where your love is evident for this person. And your concern is evident because many years ago I was woken by a friend. The building that, that our ministry was in was, uh, on fire. And he called me at 6:00 AM woke me and said, Ray, the Regent Theater building’s on fire. And I believed because of his tone, because of the, the, the way he told me that it was on fire. And if we want sinners to believe us, we must have a caring tone. We mustn’t be cond or accusatory, but just say, Hey, I love you. I don’t want you to end up and help. Please think about what we’re talking about.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:05):
How do you show love to people as you’re, as you’re talking to them about God? Because sometimes there’s this perception of an evangelist being out there on the street corner with a megaphone just yelling at people and saying, you’re all going to hell. And it tends to turn people off. They, they stand, they mock it. And and I know if you’ve been mocked many times and confronted every different situation, but how do you turn that from, uh, machi to people understanding you’re really concerned for their eternal destiny?
Ray Comfort (16:41):
Yeah. Uh, I, i amate Jesus, uh, when he spoke to the Rich Un ruler, he used the moral law, the 10 Commandments. 10 commandments called the Moral Law. He used the 10 Commandments bring the knowledge of sin. When you do that, it makes hell reasonable. Remember, Paul preached to Felix and the Bible says he reasoned with him of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come. And Felix trembled, he trembled. Why? Because judgment made sense. So if you just yell at people from a distance and just say, you’re gonna hell, it doesn’t make sense. It’s just horrible. But if you open up those commandments and show sin is exceedingly sinful in the eyes of God, suddenly hell becomes reasonable. But that makes them tremble. That’s when they see your motives as motive is one of deep concern. You’re knocking on the door because the house is on fire.
(17:32):
And then that’s when they see that you really do care about them. And that’s when the gospel makes sense. So often, I, well not often, every time I witnesses someone, I give them a couple of $5, uh, gift cards. That is, that gives me great joy. Um, today I’ll go around and probably I’ll find five or I’m gonna sneeze. Please forgive me. No, I’m not. Five or six people will turn me down. Um, when I ask if they’ll come on camera and say, I’ll give you a couple of, uh, $5 in and out cards, which is the, the neatest, uh, burger place in Southern California. And they say, no, I still wanna do it. So that’s when I say, here’s the cards anyway. And they go, what? I didn’t do the interview. I said, no problem. I just really care about you. And I give ’em a little card with the channel and people just yell out, I’m gonna check your channel. I really am. Thank you so much for the cards. It changes everything. And the scripture says, so is the will of God that by your well, well-doing, you put the silence, the ignorance of foolish men. So it’s really good to have gift cards or something you can give to someone just to show that you are not caring about them just with lip surface. You really do care about them from your heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:41):
And your ministry has a lot of resources that people are able to, to give away. Uh, yesterday my son was enamored with your $1 million bill. And, uh, I was going to hold it up, but he took it to school this morning to go show some other boys the million dollar bill. And so your ministry, uh, living Waters has some, some great resources for people to, to give away to people different, uh, uh, ways to catch their attention and illusions and, and, and different little ways to, to present the gospel. They all bring people, uh, to the 10 Commandments. Um, I I have a couple of of tough questions about how you witnessed w would it be okay if I ask these these questions to you?
Ray Comfort (19:24):
Please do
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:25):
So, I’m an evangelist. I felt ever since I was very young that I was called to be an an evangelist. And so I’ve, I’ve, uh, spent my life telling as many people about Jesus as I can and studying evangelism and trying to become a, a, a better evangelist. And, and I have some challenges with the way that you start and some challenges with the way that you finish your conversations, right? And so, like the way that you, you start, you really emphasize the sinfulness of humanity instead of talking about the love of God. Bill Bright, who founded Campus Crusade for Christ, he often taught people to witness using the four spiritual laws. And he would start out by saying, “God loves you and he has a wonderful plan for your life.” And Romans 2:4 says, “it’s the goodness of God that draws men to repentance.” And just talked about the power of, of giving something to someone. And, and so, uh, you know, I I think it it in my theology, I I think in some ways it’s better to start with the goodness of God, the love of God, God’s the love the world that He gave his only son in, instead of focusing on the convincing people that they are sinners. And, and so what I I what what’s your response to, to those challenges?
Ray Comfort (20:52):
Okay, don’t let me forget Roman’s chapter two. Are these your convictions or are they just what you’ve heard?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:58):
Usually when I talk to people about Jesus, I start with, “Jesus is so good. He came to give us life and life more abundantly. He’s got a wonderful plan for your life. I I think people inherently believe that they’re sinners.
Ray Comfort (21:18):
Okay, let’s stop there so I can pick up what you’re saying cuz it’s so good. Yeah. Firstly, the Bible says there is none that understands. There’s none that sticks after God. It’s very important to imitate Jesus and do what Jesus did. And so whenever you see Jesus witnessing to someone who’s proud, arrogant, self-righteous, he always used the moral law to bring the knowledge of sin. And if it was someone who was humble of heart, like Nicodemus, who was a Jew that knew the law, it would give them grace. It’s very similar to a man who’s got a disease that’s gonna kill him, but he thinks he’s healthy. I would be an unwise doctor to give him the cure first because he’s not gonna appreciate and appropriate the the cure. He’s gonna say, I’m healthy. I don’t need your stupid cure. A wise doctor will show him x-rays. He’ll say, look at these x-rays, this poisonous seeping through your body. He wants to make the patient sweat to be concerned that his life is in danger. And when he says, well, what should I do? That’s when he gives him the cure. If he gives him the cure first, he is not gonna appreciate it nor appropriate it. And let’s go to the wonderful plan.
(22:27):
If you really think being a Christian is a wonderful plan, lean down to Stephen as he’s being stoned to death and say, part of God’s wonderful plan, or James, as his head is cut off with a sword, or Paul as he was beaten in stoned for his faith or the 12 apostles, 11 of which were murdered for their faith. Or read Fox’s book of martyrs and see that the wonderful plan isn’t things go better with Jesus. Jesus doesn’t give happiness, he gives righteousness. That’s what sinners need. If you really think God is a wonderful plan, I’m gonna give you a scenario. You’re on the thousandth, sorry, the hundredth story of the World Trade Center, September the 10th, 2001, the night before the World Trade Center. And as you look at the vasia faces before you, you know that every one of them is gonna die horrific and horrific deaths.
(23:24):
Some are gonna be burned alive with jet fuel. Others are gonna jump a hundred stories onto the unforgiving sidewalks of New York. Others will follow the building and their bodies will be so crushed they won’t find evidence of them. What are you gonna say to these people? Folks, God has a wonderful plan for your wife. You can’t say that to people who are about to die. No. Instead you’d say, please listen to me. The Bible says this appointed man wants to die. And after this, the judgment. And if you die in your sins, God’s gonna judge you by the perfect law. The Bible says that in Romans two, verse 12 and James two verse 12. That means if you’ve lusted after a woman, you’ve committed adultery in your heart. If you’ve lied all lies of their part in the lake of fire, no thief, no bless fe no adult woman here at God’s kingdom, you’re in terrible trouble.
(24:18):
You’ll end up in Helen at agrees my heart. But God provided a savior rose again on the third day, repent and trust in him. And the Bible promises you’ll pass from death to life. So that’s what I would say to someone if I, that’s what I’d say to a group at the World Trade Center and all around us are people who could die today, 150,000 people die every 24 hours. They die in their sins. They’re going to hell. They could die in just a horrific circumstances of the World Trade Center burned alive in a car when they’re driving home or crushed under a truck or diet of a terrible terminal disease like cancer. And so I can’t talk to him of a wonderful wife, a wonderful plan that God has in fact, bill bright repented of that false gospel. And his manager wrote a forward to my book, called God is a Wonderful Plan for Your Life.
(25:08):
Which, so Stephen, being stoned to death. Yeah, that’s, I’ve got a copy of it right here. Okay. And, uh, so Romans chapter two, the goodness of God leads us to repentance. If Paul was saying in Romans two, the goodness of God leads to repentance of just talk about God’s goodness, he wasn’t practicing what he preached. Because if you read that in context, that verse is wrapped in terrible wraths. If you read in context where he says, God, if you, you know, if you continue and with an impenitent heart, God will give you tribulation and anguish upon every soul you are storing. Um, you know, you are storing up wrath that is gonna be revealed on the day of wrath. And so it’s very important that we don’t have our own way of witnessing, but we go and see what did Jesus do? Rich unruly came to him and says, what can I do to inherit eternal wife?
(26:01):
Jesus didn’t talk about a wonderful plan. He instead says, why do you call me good? And he reproved his understanding of the word good. And then he said, you know, the commandments. And then he went through the commandments with him. Why? To bring the knowledge of sin. He talked before about people know they’re sinners. The apostle Paul didn’t know he was a sinner. This is what he said, I had not known sin, but by the law. It’s not within man’s heart to understand how sinful is, how sinful sin is until the law brings the knowledge of sin. And so for 10 years, I preached God as a wonderful plan for your wife. And I filled the church with false converts. 90% under that erroneous message fall away from the faith 90%. If you were selling a parachute and you said, this parachute works only 10% of the time you need to get outta the parachute business.
(26:58):
You don’t want 90% of those jumped who jump, uh, die wearing your parachute. So it’s very important we say, what does scripture say? Let’s not have modern evangelism’s traditions. But let’s see what the Bible says about how to bring people to the cross. We’re not out to get decisions. We’re out to see men have a knowledge of sin and understand the gospel because that’s what a good soil under good soil here understands the true convert and the parable of the, so someone who’s hears and understands. And what the law does is the school master helps sinner understand the gospel. Is that making any sense or am I just raving on?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:33):
Well, in 2 Corinthians 3:7, Paul calls the 10 Commandments a ministry of death and condemnation. And I s right, actually, I, I wrote a book about, uh, the grace of God and, and I, I like looking at God, uh, through the eyes of grace. I think the, the Bible reveals a, a God that that is full of grace. And, and it, I usually emphasize, um, pointing people to Jesus. You know, uh, John 12:32, Jesus said, “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men onto me.” And so I think the more
Ray Comfort (28:07):
People, what’s the next verse about Jesus? What’s the next verse?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:10):
Tell me
Ray Comfort (28:12):
This. He said, speaking of what death he should die. So when he says, if I be lifted up, he wasn’t giving us an evangelist principle. He was saying what death? He was gonna die. He was gonna die by the cross. That’s the context. The other thing, the administration of the law is under death. That’s its function. That’s why Jesus used it. That’s why Paul used it. It shows us we have no hope in our attempt to attain righteousness. That only hope we have is the gospel. And then it says, we’re sin bound much more to grace abound. If you want make a light shine, put it in darkness. If you want calvary to shine, put it against Sinai. Show what sinner is and say, look what God did for us. Christ died for us, but while we yet sin us. So again, no one’s gonna appreciate a cure unless he understands he’s got the disease.
(29:01):
And if you circumnavigate talking about the disease, you’ll create false converts that’ll join the church and fall away at which 90% do. So it’s very important, Daniel, you go back to scripture and say, what does scripture say? The law brings death. That’s what Paul said. The law, which I thought was unto life, brought know the commandment, which I thought was the Dana unto life brought death to me. That’s his function. It shuts us up with no hope. But to look up to the cross, it’s like those biting serpents that have spoken off in the book of numbers that Jesus referred to in John chapter three. He said, as Moses lifted up the serpent on the wilderness, so must the son a man be lifted up. Go back. What happened? There were biting serpents that caused them to look up to that, that cross or that poll was being held up. And as the biting ser serpents of the law that bring death to us, that cause us to look to Jesus on the cross, cause us to have hope in him. So please think about this. Have you ever heard teaching called Hell’s Best Kept Secret?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:02):
Uh, yes, I’ve I’ve heard you teach on it. Um, live actually. And then I’ve got your, was this your first book that you wrote?
Ray Comfort (30:10):
No. No, it wasn’t. No, but it was one of the most important books. The first book was published in the us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:16):
I mean, I think it’s one of your, your most significant messages that you’re well known for.
Ray Comfort (30:20):
Yeah. And have you read God as a wonderful plan for your life as yet?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:24):
Yes, sir. I’ve, I’ve read it.
Ray Comfort (30:26):
Okay. Really good. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:27):
And, and, and, uh, you know, I I I think that it’s easier to draw people to God by talking about the goodness of God. Instead of talking, it’s unbiblical about the, the sinfulness of, of humanity. It’s not
Ray Comfort (30:39):
Biblical. It’s not biblical.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:41):
What, what, what do you,
Ray Comfort (30:41):
That’s what you need to look at. Is it biblical
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:43):
John 10:10 where Jesus said, I’ve come to give life and life more abundantly.
Ray Comfort (30:48):
Okay, let me address that, Paul, when he said, I’ve come to give life and life more abundantly, that word just means full. It doesn’t mean happy, it means full if possible. Paul had an abundant life. It was filled with beatings, stoning, shipwreck, imprisonment, and martyrdom. So that’s what he was saying. You read the book of Acts, they had a full abundant life. They were thrown in prison, they were tortured and 11 them died. So to say to people, God has a wonderful, happy life for you, it’s just gonna be a bed of roses without the thorns, is to create a wrong motive for people coming to Christ. And it, it’s filling the church with false converts. It’s not looking at what the scriptures say and what Jesus did and what Paul did. In Romans chapter two, Paul says, you who say you shall not steal, do you steal?
(31:36):
You say, you shall not commit adultery. Do you commit adultery? When Nathan stood before David, who had committed adultery and murder, he had violated the commandments. He didn’t talk about a wonderful plan. He said, why have you despised the commandment of the Lord? And so we need to, as I say, imitate scripture. Say, what did Jesus do? Cuz we don’t wanna be false witnesses. Say something that’s not true and fill the church with false converts because we are doing the work of the enemy rather than the work of God. And this is what I’ve been saying for 40 years, and people who have put into practice what Jesus did in, uh, mark 10 verse 17, and used the law to bring the knowledge of sin and forsaken the traditional way of evangelism, have found it to be biblical and and to be true, to open up sinner’s minds as to what we should do when it comes to challenging people to come to Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:25):
I also wanted to talk to you a little bit about bringing people to a, a decision. Like when you were running through your scenario a little bit earlier, you, you said, why don’t you think about that? And you, you often finish by saying, why don’t you think about that? Instead of asking people to, to pray, uh, a a prayer of, of salvation, um, why don’t you ever close the deal? I mean, if, if I give you a scenario where, uh, somebody comes into a car lot and Ray the car salesman and is there and says, oh, you have such an ugly car, your windows won’t roll down, your air conditioner doesn’t work. And look, you’ve got a big scrape on the side of your car. If the salesman doesn’t ever actually help them get into a new car, the salesman wouldn’t be a a very good salesman.
(33:16):
He would just leave them going around feeling very bad that they have an ugly car. But a good salesman will put them into a brand new car, upgraded all the features and options and everything. And so it, it seems to me that in some ways that, uh, you don’t close the deal. Why don’t you bring people to a point of decision? And, and I think it is very biblical to bring people to a point of decision in, in Deuteronomy, you know, uh, Moses says, I set before you life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life. He’s encouraging them to choose to follow God, to choose a way of life. And so in your, in your witness, then why don’t you bring people to a point of, of choosing whether they’ll, they’ll follow Jesus.
Ray Comfort (34:06):
That’s what I do. But I don’t choose for them. I know you see, your, your methodology will be dictated by your theology. If you have a wrong theology about God and salvation, you’ll think that you bring people to salvation. When the Bible says salvation of the Lord, there’s nothing in the Bible that condones the modern sinner’s prayer where I say to someone, pray after me. Uh, dear God, I’m a sinner. That’s like saying to someone who’s committed, adultry, honor’s wife. Let’s go back to your wife. Knock on the door, door opens and say, okay, I want you to apologize to your wife. Repeat an apology after me. Dear wife, I’m really sorry. Dear wife, I’m really sorry I committed adultery. Please forgive me. That’s crazy. The sorrow should come from his heart and it should not be his words, it should come from his heart.
(34:54):
I see no evidence anywhere in scripture of anyone praying a sinner’s prayer, a prayer like that. And so I don’t imitate it. I say, Lord, you save sinners. I don’t save sinners. I share the gospel with them and I’ll leave it between them and God. And I’m not gonna manipulate them through any psychological manipulation or clever wording. I’m not a car salesman. I’m not selling cars. I wanna be a true and faithful witness and see people soundly saved and not produced false converts like I used to do when I ran around praying the sinner’s prayer of my surfing buddies. Does that make sense?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:30):
Absolutely. I I I very much appreciate your time. Um, if you’re listening, I really encourage you to get a of the new book, so Many Lions, so Few Daniels, it’s a great book, um, brother Comfort. If someone wants to know more about your ministry, uh, how can they find out more about you? What’s your website?
Ray Comfort (35:50):
Living waters.com. And they can go to YouTube and watch, um, uh, YouTube videos. And, uh, it’s, uh, um, a lot of stuff on Living waters.com free. We’re giving away 5 million of this gospel track, free of charge and, uh, no shipping charge. We’re, we’re paying for the shipping and giving away the tracks free. And they can see about that on our Living waters.com.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:13):
Well, thank you so much. You know, despite some of maybe our theological differences, I have tremendous respect for your ministry. I
Ray Comfort (36:23):
Don’t know why, because you think I’m doing it wrong. You shouldn’t have respect for me. You shouldn’t promote my books or the website because I’m doing it unbiblically.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:32):
I’m, I am for anybody that goes out there and talks to people about Jesus. And, and so I very much honor you and the many people that, that you have, uh, got to think about the the things of God. Um, I I do have one more question. The name of your TV show is The Way of the Master. When Jesus walked on the Earth, his way was to heal lots of sick people. And so I come from a, a spirit empowered background. Often in our services, we’ll pray for sick people to be healed. And, and often people’s, many people say that they, they receive healing. If you really want to follow the way of the master do you think that God will heal people as a way to bring people to Jesus?
Ray Comfort (37:24):
Of course, I pray for people that are sick, <laugh>, obviously. Um, but the way of the master is called the way of the master because it’s what Jesus did with the rich young ruler. He used the commandments to bring the knowledge of sin. He didn’t pray for his sickness or bring up sickness. He brought a knowledge of sin using those 10 commandments so that he would understand his sinfulness, that he had violated God’s law. So that’s what I do. Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Paul says in Romans 1:16, the gospel is the power of God to salvation. And so you can pray for sick people, that’s great, but they must hear the gospel because without the knowledge of sin, there’s no understanding of the cross, there’s no understanding of the cross, there’s no salvation. So make sure that you don’t just pray for someone so saw wrist or whatever, or a headache or whatever, that you give them the gospel and the biblical gospel, not the erroneous gospel of God as a wonderful plan for your life, cuz that has done great damage to the cause of the gospel and filled the church with false converts.
(38:29):
So anyway, I’ve gotta go. I’ve got a gospel to preach. It’s close to 11, and I’m gonna go around to the school and a local college and witness to people who are going to hell. And that grieves my heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:41):
That’s wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I really appreciate it.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:47):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real. You’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more Is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? In his powerful, easy to read book, Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen to good people? Proof God is real. Daniel King shows you God is there and he cares for you. Plus how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order proof God is real today by calling 1-877-431-FOUR 2 7 6 or find the book on Amazon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:50):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (41:10):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Ben King | The Circuit Riders Come to Tulsa
The original circuit riders were Methodist preachers who rode on horses from town to town to preach the Gospel. Today, there is a new generation of Circuit Riders who are dedicated to serving Jesus. They are part of Youth With A Mission (YWAM) and they are bringing a big team to Tulsa, OK to tell people about Jesus. Today we talk with Ben King about what they hope to see God do in T-Town.
Find Out More About the Circuit Riders: https://circuitriders.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
The original circuit writers were Methodist preachers who rode on horses from town to town to preach the gospel. Today, there is a new generation of circuit writers who are dedicated to serving Jesus. They are part of youth with a mission, and they’re bringing a big team to Tulsa, Oklahoma, to tell people about Jesus. Today we talk with Ben King about what they hope to see God do in T-Town.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:37):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:02):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, Ben King. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Ben King (01:13):
Excited to be here. Um, yeah, so, uh, excited just to talk about evangelism and got to hear a little bit of your heart and what you’re doing. So, um, yeah, just honored to be here and you led so many people to Jesus. So I think it’s just, um, awesome to talk about Jesus meeting our generation with the gospel and so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:30):
Love it. Amen. So, Ben King is with the Circuit Writers, which is a YWAM ministry that is passionately following after Jesus Christ and calling other people to follow Jesus Christ. Now, the name circuit writers goes back to some of the original preachers here in America. Ben, tell me who were the circuit writers?
Ben King (01:54):
Yeah, so the circuit writers were kind of these radical, uh, missionaries, uh, of evangelists. Um, they were kind of these zealous group of young people that came. Most of ’em came over from the uk. Some of the original preachers like John Wesley & Francis Asbury was actually commissioned here by John Wesley. And, uh, they were really known for their zeal for the gospel. And then the Frontiers of America, what would happen is they would ride around largely on horseback from town to town. And, uh, the history books tell us that they would ride through towns and they would basically shout things to the whole town, like 6:00 PM we’re meeting at the courthouse or wherever they chose to meet. They would pick up public common area and ride through town, say, Hey, we’re meeting here. And then they would just stand up and boldly proclaim the gospel, call people to be saved.
(02:44):
Um, the testimonies are that as, um, well, Asbury Wesley was doing this in England for a number of years, and at one point in one of his meetings, he, uh, he said, who will go to the Frontiers of America? And this young man named Francis Asbury, uh, answered the, came to America and he started training preachers in America. He actually came, uh, during the Revolutionary War at first. So he, uh, he came and many people when he first came to America were like, this guy’s a spy. Like, so his first year in America, he had to hide. They said he would hide in this little room. And, uh, and then after the Revolutionary War started preaching and raising up preachers, I think he, uh, the history tells us that he personally, um, commissioned and trained about 700 preachers to do what he did. And they would all ride, all of these preachers would ride from town to town, preach the gospel. Um, they saw movement all across America, thousands getting saved, coming into the church, and then planting churches as well. And so, uh, really was this inspirational movement of mostly young preachers. Actually most of them, uh, traveled so intensely that they died by the age of, uh, 33. So Francis Asbury specifically, he wrote an average of 6,000 miles a year. And, uh, he would preach everywhere it says courthouses, public houses, tobacco houses, fields, public squares, wherever people would assemble to heal. To hear him, it said, uh, that he would preach. And, um,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:10):
I think it’s really incredible neat to hear the story of Francis Asbury because just in the last few weeks there have been reports of revival happening Yes. At Asbury University. Yes. Which is named after this great preacher Francis Asbury. And, and so as you mentioned, he rode over 6,000 miles every year that wasn’t riding in a car or on a plane that was a horseback. On a horseback. And he would have his Bible in one hand. He’d have his theological book in the other he’d be writing Yeah. And studying. And then he’d get to a town, he’d call all the people together, he would minister to them, plant a church in that area, and, and then he would do a circuit. He would come back and, and, and, uh, he would go to the next town, plant another church, and, and tell he had a bunch of churches going.
(05:00):
Then he’d go in this circuit writing from, from church to church. Yes. And so over the course of his lifetime, it’s estimated that Asbury traveled over 300,000 miles and we have his journals. So he delivered over 16,500 sermons. And so they called him, uh, you know, they called, uh, the Apostle John, uh, camel knees cuz his, he prayed so much. Yeah. I think we should call Asbury Camel Butt because by the time he <laugh> traveled all that way on his, on horseback, he probably had some serious callouses. So, uh, by when, when Asbury arrived in America, there were 600 Methodists in the entire country. Yes. And by the time he died, there were over 214,000 members. Incredible. Incredible. From 600 to 214,000, one of the greatest revivals in history. And I, the question that our generation is crying out and asking God is, can something like this happen again?
Ben King (06:05):
Yeah, I mean, I think absolutely. I think we’re seeing it at Asbury College. You know, and this is a continuation of Francis Asbury’s legacy in many ways. Um, and you know, the Hunger, they had about 20,000 people. The city shut down, the city’s made for I think, uh, maximum of like 10,000. And so, um, definitely Gen Z is hungry for this kind of movement and revival and this experience of the gospel where people are getting saved, miracles are breaking out. Um, so I would say absolutely yes. And, uh, and not just on the Christian campuses like Asbury, but we’ve been traveling to secular campuses and we find the same hunger on the secular campuses where people are wanting the gospel. So.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:46):
And so you are with Circuit writers, it’s a ministry that is part of ywam, but you have hundreds of young people that are joining. Tell me, what does circuit writers do?
Ben King (07:01):
Yeah, so we’re, uh, we’re based outta Huntington Beach, California. Um, we started in 2011, really inspired by these, uh, early circuit writer preachers like John Wesley Asbury. Um, and so we travel to, uh, college campuses and high school campuses, but we also do inner city events. Um, really our, our heart is just to preach the gospel and, uh, really anywhere people would hear us, just like the early, uh, circuit riders. And so we, uh, yeah, I’m actually in the middle of a tour right now, going to, uh, secular campuses and posting up in the student union gathering students and just preaching the gospel. Um, but yeah, circuit Riders is primarily to reach, uh, our generation with the gospel. Um, and we’re focusing on college and high school campuses, but not limited to that. But
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:44):
Yeah. And so you’ve come here to Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is why you’re with me today. And you are planning an outreach here in Tulsa? Yes, and so we were just had a meeting where we’re talking about several different outreaches that are going to take place. Uh, we’re going to go partner with, uh, teen Challenge and, and bridging hunger and, and give away food in one neighborhood. And the circuit writers are gonna come and help us out with that. And then, uh, some of my interns are planning another outreach that they’re calling, uh, glow for Jesus, and they’re going to take some glow sticks and going downtown Tulsa and we’re gonna pass out the glow sticks and talk to all the people in downtown Tulsa around all the bars on a Friday night. Uh, we fe and I’m just excited that circuit writers is coming here because Tulsa still has a lot of people that need Jesus. Even though that we have great ministries here and great churches, there’s still people right here in Tulsa that need Jesus and Yeah. And this is all over America.
Ben King (08:43):
Yeah, I, I mean, I think the greatest misconception is as I’ve gone to, you know, we’ve been going to a lot of campuses in the Bible Belt and in the southern states of America. And I find that a lot of Christians in these places are blind to the reality of the need cuz they kind of have this assumption. Uh, most people around me are Christian. And I find as we go out and do evangelism in all of these places, that many people are waiting to hear the gospel. And, and actually there are people all throughout the south who have never heard the gospel. And so I think even in a place like Tulsa, like, um, you know, we met a young man a couple days ago who was, uh, he was, uh, involved in a gang. He was in drugs. And as I shared the gospel with him, he said, I’ve never heard Jesus talked about and forgiveness and the blood of Jesus talked about in this way. And he ended up giving his life to Christ and getting saved. And we pray for him to be filled with the Holy Spirit. So I think a hundred percent there’s need all around us. Um, and I think as Christians, we have to, even in America wake up to that need and be aware of our calling to evangelism and to share the gospel in these places to these people. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:46):
So let’s talk a little bit about the circuit writers. How do people join? How do they become a part? And then what are some of the core beliefs in the culture that you try to create in circuit writers?
Ben King (10:00):
Yeah, so, uh, we run schools every year, kind of similar to ywam, uh, discipleship Training School. It’s called a DTS Discipleship Training School. And, uh, they’re either, uh, they’re about seven to eight months long and you go through three months of training and then you go out and actually share the gospel. So it’s a very, uh, empowering model where we’re really believing our generation, um, is called to evangelism. So it’s mostly focused on, um, you know, our Gen Z Age group. Um, and, uh, we, yeah, so we invite people to our schools. So that’s one way to, you can join, you can just go to circuit writers.com, apply for one of our schools, and there’s more information about all that there. Um, but really our heart is, um, yeah, to see people come to Christ. So one of the primary things we’ve been realizing this year is that, uh, we want to, uh, share the gospel across college campuses and, and high schools in the cities, but also equip a generation to carry the gospel. Um, and I think, so evangelism is kind of at the core of what we do. Um, acts of service in the city, some of our core cultures, like our founder, uh, his name is Brian Brent and he passed away in 2000, uh, about it two years ago now. So yeah, I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:09):
Never got to meet him, but I’ve heard such amazing things Yes. About Brian. And it was really sad when he went to heaven. Yeah. So
Ben King (11:15):
I was actually here in Tulsa when he passed. Um, we were doing an event at O R U, um, but just, he was incredible man of humility. I think some of the things that we would always say about Brian is like, he was such a, he was so happy I got to live with him for a couple months and with his family, he was so happy and lighthearted and joyful. But at the same time, Carrie, this just this edge of conviction, um, and the fear of the Lord. And, and, you know, so he, he wrote these manuals called the Freedom Manual, the Cultureship Manual, which kind of lists out the core cultures that we, uh, carry in circuit writers. One of them is like the culture of the Radical Servant, where Brian would, uh, just teach the, like the, the core goal in Christianity is to lay your life down and serve other people.
(11:57):
It’s not to, you know, make your name great or get a title or even to do something massively impactful, but it is to lay your life down and radically serve others. Um, and just he would talk about the joy of that. You know, he made up a song called Radical Servant that he’s sang in a sermon and we all started singing it. And um, so, um, and so, so many of these cultures in these manuals, which you can also buy online on our website, um, were just, they kind of set the foundation for what we carry as a movement. And, um, really for me as a young man getting saved at 17, joining the movement when I was 18, I’m 25 now. Um, some of the things that Brian would, would lead and teach, um, for me were so, uh, culture shifting and foundational even in my early Christian walk.
(12:41):
So, um, Brian definitely, you know, a lot of these things, obviously Brian led by the Holy Spirit. A lot of these cultures can be largely accredited to what he carried and steward even through, you know, his wife Christie. And, um, she’s still, you know, doing lots of ministry. But, um, yeah, so, uh, it’s definitely been since his past, it’s been different in our ministry. But definitely seeing the, his legacy walked out through all of the leaders that he raised up, cuz a foundation in RC Riders has been look for leaders, pour into the leaders and raise up the leaders and the places that we’re going to. So let’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:13):
Talk about evangelism and the circuit writer’s heart for evangelism. You’re starting to branch out and you just recently went to Burundi and you have a heart to go to other nations and you’d like to see a harvest of souls all over the world.
Ben King (13:29):
Yes. So we’re, uh, we’re just starting this. We’re calling it just carry the love festivals and um, you know, doing what you do in a much smaller way in the early beginnings. Um, but uh, cuz I know you’ve led millions to Jesus around the world and just have this incredible heart of love for Jesus. But, um, yeah, for us, we’re just, you know, group of, uh, 20 year olds and we’re, uh, really a believing God has led us in faith to do these festivals. We did the first one last year in Burundi, and it was a week long where we did most of the week, was training in evangelism and sending out the locals. So we trained about 700 local burundians and, um, here’s how you share the gospel and win souls and then bring people into the local church. And then we sent them out and, uh, in the week about five to, it was between five and 6,000 people gave their lives to Jesus.
(14:16):
Um, I just got a testimony actually of a young man who got trained in one of those trainings, uh, a couple months ago. Um, so this was, the event was about a year ago. A couple months ago, he went out and, uh, he left his city, went to a small town and began to preach the gospel. And he personally led 800 people to Jesus, a a young burundian man who came to one of our evangelism trainings and was inspired. So, um, our heart is to raise up the local evangelists and really do it together. Um, and so in Tulsa, uh, we’re planning that for April 21st, we’re doing a larger outdoor gathering and, uh, we’re looking at doing some, we’re in the downtown area, um, but we’re gonna do a week of outreach as you know, like you said, partnering with you guys, all these other ministries, um, to reach the loss. So, um, yeah, we’re doing eight, uh, different locations this year and just kind of, uh, you know, going after it in faith and we’ll see what happens. We’re really believing this year would be a spark of faith that we could continue in the years to come. Um, but there’s about five. What
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:12):
Are some of the other cities that you’re planning to go to this year?
Ben King (15:14):
So, uh, let me see if I can list them all. So we got Budapest, um, that, uh, my wife and I will go to, we’re doing, uh, uh, Louisiana, lsu, and then we’re doing, uh, Tijuana. Um, so, uh, I got about four, uh, we’re doing, uh, at, actually one of our core gatherings at Spark Circuit Riders was, um, at usc. And so we’re going back to usc. We’re doing a lawn in the middle of campus, so some of them are campuses and some of them are cities. And then, uh, we’re going back to Burundi again, um, for round two in Burundi, um, the uk. And then, uh, I think I covered all of ’em. I might have missed one.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:48):
Now, a big part of what you do is worship and in the circuit writers you actually have some really amazing worship leaders. Yes. Tell me about how worship and evangelism can work together.
Ben King (15:58):
Yeah, so, uh, o obviously we have Lindy in our movement who, uh, is incredibly well known and, and really a lot of her music was, uh, it was different because it had this edge of like, the great commission in it. So it was, uh, a lot of her songs were like, you know, every Nation, every Soul was one of her songs. And so, uh, it just kind of included this aspect of like, we need to go and share the gospel. Um, which has been massively inspirational to our, you know, really to the church and across the world. But she, uh, wrote these songs and, and so, uh, they really have this aspect of like, go, uh, and share the gospel, win the loss. And what we really believe in circuit Riders is, um, you know, wor the first time worship is mentioned in the Bible is it’s uh, when Abraham sacrifices his son Isaac.
(16:45):
Um, and so, uh, worship is obedience to God. And so I think, uh, obviously he singing songs, we’re gonna do that for eternity and it’s gonna be beautiful and amazing and it is now and we do that. Um, but one of the ways that we get to worship now, um, as well is our evangelism becomes an act of worship cuz it’s an expression of our love to Jesus. Um, and so I think combining, you know, the songs and the singing and the worship, this pure heart to Jesus with the proclamation of the gospel is perfect cuz it’s just a, it’s a continuation of like, Hey, we just worship for two hours now we’re gonna go out and find people that are lost and win them. It’s just a continuation of we’re expressing our love for Jesus through bold proclamation of the gospel and through singing songs. So, um, yeah, that’s what I would say.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:31):
I really love your heart for God. And you’re still young, but you are radically committed to following Jesus. What would you say to a young person who is looking for, for purpose and and looking for, for meaning? What would say to them to, to bring them closer to Jesus?
Ben King (17:53):
Yeah, I would just say run after Jesus with your whole heart. I mean, I was 17 when I got saved. I was addicted to drugs, alcohol, pornography. My whole life was a broken mess. I contemplated suicide, pack of cigarettes a day. One night I overdosed and a few nights later I came home and I prayed and there was this incredible, uh, sense of the presence of God that filled my room that night. I fell on my knees, began to weep, and, uh, three months later got baptized, totally set free from drugs, alcohol, pornography, all of those things. And so for seven years now, I’ve been walking in this incredible freedom where, um, and when I first got saved my, I just started going to like Walmart in these places and just telling people like Jesus, I didn’t even know the gospel. I was just like, Jesus loves you cuz I was so, my heart was so satisfied and in love with Jesus.
(18:37):
And so I think, uh, come into the presence of God. Uh, Christianity is not, uh, a religion per se. It’s a, it’s a heart that has drawn so near to God that it’s so deeply satisfied. There’s an overflow of love for other people from that place. So, um, yeah, I would just say by the, you know, come to Jesus and invite the Holy Spirit into your heart, into your mind, into your soul, into every area of your life and be fully satisfied. And from that place of deep satisfaction in your personal life, having found everything you need in Jesus alone, um, go out and tell others about him and, uh, you’ll, you’ll experience joy that you maybe, uh, having up to this point. Some of my greatest joy has been watching other people receive Christ just like I did when I was 17. So, yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:26):
Well, Ben, you have a great last name. Your last name is Key. Yeah,
Ben King (19:30):
We have the same last name.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:31):
Maybe we’re related somewhere. I don’t know <laugh>, but it is a good last name. So it’s, uh, such an honor to have you on the Evangelism podcast. Thank you for being with me today.
Ben King (19:39):
Thanks so much for having me.
Evangelism Podcast Host (19:40):
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Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:43):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (22:04):
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Anthony Greco | The Gospel of Jesus…is Jesus
In today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, I am joined by pastor and evangelist Anthony Greco to discuss his journey to becoming an evangelist. Greco shares his powerful testimony of encountering Jesus and feeling called to share the Gospel with others. He talks about how he was inspired by the story of evangelist T.L. Osborn and decided to travel to India to see if miracles really happened. Greco shares how he witnessed miracles at a Peter Youngren festival and how they deepened his faith in God.
Check out Anthony Greco’s Website: https://www.calgarylifechurch.com/
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, pastor Anthony Greco. Thank you so much for being with me on the Evangelism Podcast. It’s
Anthony Greco (00:12):
Just an honor to be here with you and been following you for quite a number of years. Heard some amazing things, and we have a lot of mutual friends, and appreciate what you’re doing for the cause of Christ around the world.
Evangelist Daniel King (00:22):
Well, thank you. You are a pastor here in Calgary, Alberta. Yep. And you are also an evangelist. Yes. And so tell me about how you got started as an evangelist.
Anthony Greco (00:35):
<Laugh>. Well, well, you know, I gave my life to Christ in 1982. Born in a very strong, devout Catholic family, and had an encounter with Jesus. When I was 18, I was in a trailer counting my beer money to see how drunk I could get with my drinking buddies. And his roommate came in and opened up his Bible and shared Christ with me. And five minutes later, I was on my knees and I accepted Jesus. And it was it was a powerful moment where I literally felt, you know, something just lift off my life. The lights came on and, and I was experiencing this, this presence of Jesus. And, you know, I had never experienced anything like that. And I, I remember, I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry, but on the inside I was like, this is real. He’s alive. And I heard a voice on the inside of me say, yeah I’m real. And you’re gonna tell your generation, you know, I’m real. Something to that effect. You know how when God speaks to you, you kind of interpret that it wasn’t like an audible voice, but it was so undeniable. And so that’s how it started. And then someone put some Teal Osborne material in my hand, and it just resonated. I couldn’t put it down. And so
Evangelist Daniel King (01:44):
And so, because of Tia Osbourne’s story of going to India, you decided to go to India and test it out to see if it really worked. Yeah. Yeah. I, and so what happened?
Anthony Greco (01:53):
Okay, so I go to India, and so there’s I, I go to New Delhi and I see these posters everywhere. Come see the miracles of Jesus, the Blind Sea, the deaf here, the lame walk, thousands here, the good news, Jesus heals regardless of Casre religion, Canadian evangelist Peter Yare. And I thought, v I mean, my first thought was, are you allowed to advertise? Like that isn’t that presumption. But anyway, I ended up meeting him. And so he, you know, I, I just said, Hey, I’m from Cranbrook, bc and I said, I’ve heard of you and never met you, but I’d like to help. What can I do? And he, he says, well, you got a good camera there. Why don’t you take pictures of the miracles that they happen? And then he looked at my, my, my, my traveling partner, rod Harrison says, and you, you record them as they happen.
(02:37):
I said, yes. So we left that meeting. We went back to our hotel room, and we burst out laughing, like, like he was so matter of fact, and I mean, I believed in the mir, in Mir the miraculous, you know, but I’d never seen a miracle. I mean, maybe a sore knee or a sore elbow, or, but I’d never seen blind eyes open, you know, or deaf ears. And so I thought, all right. So that first night I show up at stadium and big open field, and there’s, you know, couple thousand people that first night. And Peter begins to preach, presenting Jesus, and you could just feel the atmosphere, get charged with faith and possibility. He gives the alter call and, you know, scores of people run forward and dust is coming up. And I’m like, I, I never seen that. And then he began to command miracles to happen.
(03:27):
And this is what I was waiting for. So I got the camera and I’m ready. And you know, he did it in categories, which right away I was disappointed, Daniel, I thought you don’t do in categories. I think I was, I think I was looking for something spectacular and sensational. You know, I I, and I thought once I saw that, that I would be transformed, that it wouldn’t, I would instantly have faith. I was looking for something, some kind of, of a religious experience that would fit into my frame of reference, or not reference, but I, what I would imagined. It starts with the deaf, commanding deaf spirits to come open, come out and blind eyes to open and cripples. And I’m, I’m watching this and I’m, I’ll never forget this little girl who had never walked and beautiful purple plaid dress on. And her father had wonderful Sikh man, you know, beard and turban, and he’s got tears running down his eyes onto his beard, onto his, his vest that he was wearing a sweater vest and big wet spots. And he’s laughing and crying, and his little girl who had never walked is walking back and forth, and he’s holding his big belly and laughing and crying. And he’s like, look what Jesus has done. Look what Jesus has done. And there was so many miracles that night, Daniel. I didn’t believe it.
Evangelist Daniel King (04:44):
I you saw it with your own eyes and you still didn’t believe
Anthony Greco (04:46):
It. I didn’t believe it. It was like water off a duck’s back. So I go back to the Y M C A where I was staying on in, in New Delhi and Dicing Road, and, and I was, that whole night I tossed and turned, I ended up getting on the balcony, and I’m crying out to God. And I said, God, obviously Peter Youngren was in really fine form, and Jesus, you were awesome as always. But what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I believe what I saw? I always said, if I see it, I’ll believe it. And it really comes down to, you know, and, and this is what I understood that night after wrestling, I realized that so much of my Christianity was in the realm of my, in, in was shaped by my, by my worldview. And in the West, it’s such a, a worldview shaped by logic and reason.
(05:29):
Well, it was back then. Now it’s about feelings. But that’s a whole nother, nother story. But back then, it was so much about you know, if I can taste it, if I can measure it, if I can touch it, then I’ll accept it as a reality. And I understood that night that my worldview was very much a natural worldview over in India and different parts of the world, as you well know, there’s a supernatural worldview. And so when I understood that, you know, you know Christ, you know, you know, the natural mind receives not the things of God. I I I will never be able to figure, download God into my brain. He’d literally blow your mind. But yet our spiritual capacity, Christ lives on the inside of us. And I understood that night that my, the spiritual reality of the new creation, that capacity to believe in no God is far beyond my intellect. And so in the West, we’ve elevated reason and logic above the place of simple childlike faith and spiritual realities. And so that night, I repented of my heartness of heart, asked Jesus to help me and begin to really able to appreciate and not be critical and cynical about the miracles that I saw.
Evangelist Daniel King (06:35):
And since you first connected with Pastor Peter Youngren, you helped to organize some of the big gospel festivals mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that he’s done in, in different parts of the world. And, and even till today, you’re, you’re continuing to, to work with him. So, so tell me about some of the adventures. What, what comes to mind of the, these different countries you’ve gone to and what God has done?
Anthony Greco (06:57):
Well in the, in the early days, so I, I’m working in Cranbrook. I’m a manager of a pizza hut. And I would, I would save up my money and then, you know, when I had money, I’d phone Peter and say, where are you going? You know, and then I’d, I’d go in advance and help set up. And so one day, the, we were watching the news, and so he lived in eastern Canada, in Toronto area, and I lived in Bridge Columbia while the Soviets, you know, they invade Afghanistan and, and millions of Afghan refugees begin to pour over the border into Pakistan. So Peter calls me and he says Anthony, you know, did, are you watching the news? I said, yeah. I said, it’s amazing. And he says, wow, the Afghans have never been reached with the gospel. He goes, that’s one of the last strongholds of darkness. We need to go there. And I said, okay, what do you wanna do? And he says, well, let’s go to pva, right by the Kira Pass and let’s, you know. And he says, can you go in advance and set it up for me? I said, sure,
Evangelist Daniel King (07:44):
Sure, no problem. Why not? You didn’t know what was impossible.
Anthony Greco (07:47):
I didn’t know. So I went and so I meet with all the pastors there. Now, when I was there was the same time that Osama Bin Laden was in pva, working on behalf of the cia, getting support from the, from the CIA to buy stingers and mules and weapons. And so the KGB was in the city setting off bombs in the marketplace, trying to force the government to push the Afghan refugees back into the refugee camps. Cause when they were coming into the city, they were getting finances, they were getting arms. And so it was chaos. So I’m there meeting with all the bishops and priests and pastors from every imaginable spectrum of Christianity, telling them what we want to do. And they’re like, you are crazy. There’s bombs going off. You’re gonna get us all killed. You don’t understand what it is to be a minority and a Muslim majority.
(08:32):
And, and so they, they forced me. They said, now you’re gonna call Pastor Peter Youngren and tell ’em to cancel the meetings. Cuz the previous 36 hours, I think it was six or nine bombs had gone off in the marketplace. So I got all the bishops and priests and pastors in a, in a house, and I’m on the, you know, the telephone. We didn’t have, we didn’t have cell phones or internet or fax machines at that day. I called Peter and I explained the situation and he just yells back and he goes, Anthony, tell them I’m coming. And he hung up the phone. I mean, it was like the air Manuel, the air was sucked out of that room. And they were just so despondent when Peter arrived. And we saw, and then, I mean, the first miracles were among, we had a lot of the Afghans experience. We had two interpreters. So we were speaking in [inaudible] and saw amazing miracles predominantly among the Muslims. And I remember going to the Bible Society and buying every piece of scripture they had. And we gave it to all those Muslim that were demanding Bibles and scriptures. It was, it was fantastic to see.
Evangelist Daniel King (09:32):
Let’s talk about power evangelism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, why is it important for people to see the power of God at work?
Anthony Greco (09:40):
I love the old African proverb, which you’ve probably heard. You’re walking down the road and the road splits in two and you don’t know which way to go. One road has a, a man that’s dead, another one has a alive, which one are you gonna ask for directions? And I think our message is the resurrection of Jesus. And I, I think in North America, we focused on Christ died for our sins. The penalty was paid. But we don’t emphasize enough that the keys of death, hell in the grave are in the belt, in the hands of Jesus. He rose from the grave. He’s the only one. And he’s the same yesterday, today and forever and miracles, you know, they attest, they confirm the message. T.L. Osborn said to me, he says, you know, if you abide in my word, then you are my disciples. Indeed, we need to have the deeds to authenticate our message.
(10:27):
Cuz anyone can talk about what their prophet or guru, you know, had said. And so this, and it’s also when you go to areas where they’re held in darkness, and maybe there’s false religions or demonic powers or al, until you demonstrate that your message has greater power than theirs it’s very difficult for them to put their faith in Christ. So we, we must have miracles, Paul put an emphasis on it. And the only time we see that Paul didn’t have a lot of fruits in his ministries when he went to Mars Hill. And he just, he had a great, you know, apologetic discourse with the leaders. And they said, we’ll hear you again on this matter. But everywhere else, you know, in the book of Acts is like the Holy Spirit moves. And then the church plays catch up day of Pentecost boom. And they’re like, Peter’s like, whoa, what?
(11:15):
Oh, I know what this is. This is that which was prophesied by the prophet Joel. 3000 people are saved. Acts chapter three, boom, A lay man gets healed. Don’t look at us as if, you know, it was by our, and so you see this pattern in the book of Acts where miracles change the spiritual, their signs and wonders and signs point to something they make you wonder, who is this Jesus? And so I have found that that is absolutely vital and it can quickly, Jesus said, even to Sodom and well to Corine and some of the cities, you know, and he said, if the miracles that were done in you were done in Sodom and Gamo, they would repentant. So miracles have an ability to bring repentance and change of mind and change of attitude in, in, in, in, in different people groups.
Evangelist Daniel King (11:58):
I’ve heard you say the gospel of Jesus is Jesus. Yeah. What do you mean by that?
Anthony Greco (12:04):
<Laugh>? You know, it’s you know, that’s the good news man, is that, you know every, every religion is propagated, usually by the parents. And then it’s affirmed by, you know, maybe a priest or a monk or a guru or a holy man. And through certain ceremonies that are performed in pagodas or temples or mosques or whatnot, right? Only in Christianity is our, in the gospel. What’s unique is that our message is advanced by the participation of the founder himself. You know, the Lord went with them, you know, you know, confirming the word. And when people encounter Jesus, our message is a person. You, you don’t become an adherent to a doctrine or you join a religious movement or take membership in a denomination. You encounter Jesus and you find in him, he’s everything you need, your savior, your healer, the Baptizer and the Holy Spirit, restore, deliverer, you know, he’s everything. He’s the life. And so that’s what I get excited is that the good news about Jesus is I know that when someone says yes, they can encounter, they’re gonna have a, an encounter with the living resurrected savior.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:12):
So you have the heart of an evangelist and now you’re pastoring. And so what’s that like to go from traveling, doing crusades to, to now being a pastor? And, and, and how have you brought those two different giftings and callings together?
Anthony Greco (13:29):
Yeah, I mean that’s a, I mean, that’s a tension that I’m, I’m still trying to learn how to, how to manage. Cuz you go overseas and it’s, it’s, it’s proclamation. You know, north America was a bit more explanation. Now, do I still expect the miraculous to happen in my church setting? Absolutely. And just, I heard a testimony just a few nights ago of a young gal that had a, a, a cyst, you know, on her ovary, and we prayed and she went to the doctrine and a vanished, we’ve seen blind eyes open. But what I recognize in the church is that, you know, as a, you know, a pastor, you know, when I started, someone said to me, Anthony says, you know, well actually I heard John Maxwell say this at a conference. He said, the weakness of the Charismatic Pentecostal Church is you guys overestimate the event and underestimate the process.
(14:11):
And so the shift that I’ve had to make is to think long term, build relationships. Now I’m planted in this community. I’ve been here for 23 years, and I want to, you know, invite people into that relationship over that process of time to come to Christ. The em, I I really believe that, that a great pastor, according to Jesus in Luke 50 leaves, the 99 safe sheep to go after the one lost sheep. And so I think it’s the number one job of every pastor is not to grow deeper disciples, but is to reach lost people. And so when we thought about our church, and so how I look at it, I think it’s the angle scale that about, on a scale of one to 10, the five is where someone gets born again, eight nines and tens are your solid, mature believers that can feed themselves.
(14:58):
Your zero ones and twos are those that are not even interested in spiritual reality. Everything, how we’ve designed our church is with, I’m thinking of the threes and fours, which are the people that are starting to ask questions. Is there more to life than this? What about Jesus? Is the Bible true? What happens when I die? You know? And five of course is born again, six, they’re and seven are new believers. So I prepare my messages for three to six or four to sevens. I figured that, well, the zero ones and twos, they’re not there. Eights, nines, and tens. Come on, you can feed yourself. I’m not getting fed in church. Really. You know, you’re, you’re like,
Evangelist Daniel King (15:35):
I have, you need to be feeding someone else. You need to
Anthony Greco (15:37):
Be feeding someone else. Now take some responsibility. So that’s how I gear my church. And so I had to make big adjustment on, you know, how I speak using layman’s terms, you know eradicating some of the Christian Church and Christianese so that it’s very welcoming. And, and I’ve seen people come in and some of them, you know, especially some of the more educated, affluent people, they may take a year or two before they actually make a decision for Christ. They’re really watching everything. But I still believe job number one, ultimately I think you is, is is reaching that one lost person.
Evangelist Daniel King (16:13):
We’re here together at the Advance Evangelist Summit, and it’s really wonderful to see all these different evangelists from around Canada come together here in Calgary and have a heart for evangelism. And I think one of the things that God wants to do is to raise up more proclamation of evangelists who will go and preach the gospel with strengths and with demonstration and with power, with full. Like
Anthony Greco (16:38):
You do. Like you
Evangelist Daniel King (16:39):
Do. Yeah. And, and so what advice would you give to, to a young person who, who would like to be a, a proclamation of evangelists? Maybe they don’t even know what that is, but they, they wanna tell thousands of people about Jesus.
Anthony Greco (16:50):
You know, I had a, a great, one of the great mentors in my life is a man named Wayne Myers. And he’s done in Mexico City. He just turned a hundred. And one day I asked him, I said, why don’t we have a lot of miracles in North America like we see overseas? And he says, you know, he says, Saul never killed a giant, and he never had giant killers under his ministry or under his tenure. And he says, David killed a giant. And then, you know some of my, his mighty men, you know, killed off the brothers of Goliath. And he says, you can’t give what you, what you don’t have. So I would say this, all that to say who’s doing it? Who’s who, who’s caring and demonstrating what you want. Go, go draw ear, connect with them, people like yourself, you know, and I know there’s a, you we’re talking about the bootcamp with Daniel nda, my friend Peter Youngren.
(17:38):
When there, there are people that are operating in this, I would say go and serve under those ministries, draw clothes, study hunger and thirst after it. It’s that association submission is such a powerful thing because when you’re submitted, what’s the anointing that’s on the mission comes on you. And I would say, I wouldn’t be here today without Peter’s mentorship, him acknowledging a gift that’s in me, giving me opportunity, correcting me, you know, fine tuning. And so that is an absolute important thing. Pastors are gonna produce pastors and teachers are gonna produce teachers evangelists will produce evangelists. Find you, put yourself in those environments and step out on faith and be bold.
Evangelist Daniel King (18:16):
Let’s talk about what God is doing in Canada. For many years, Canada has sent missionaries around the world. So many Canadian churches have a heart for missions. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, and now what we see is that people from around the world are coming to Canada. And so right here in Calgary, you have people from many different nations, many different cultures. And, and it’s like God is bringing the mission field to you. And I know in your church you have people from many different backgrounds. What would you say to other pastors in Canada about this mission field that God is bringing here?
Anthony Greco (18:52):
I mean, I was just talking to one of the local pastors here and told me that in the northeast quadrant of my city, Calgary now Calgary’s about, I think it’s 1.3, 1.4 million, but in that quadrant there are 440081% of those people. So over 300,000 are new immigrants. They’re new Canadians, there are Muslims are Hindus, they’re in our backyard. And I, I think what the inside of the church must reflect the outside of the church. You know, we’re multicultural church. We have about 50 different nationalities represented. And we you know, it’s the, the challenge is I don’t want to be culturally specific. I need to be culturally sensitive. And so I look what’s on my platform is my platform. All white guys or white women, does it reflect my leadership, everything. And I think that that is so absolutely key. And so one of the best things is, is you gotta start connecting, you know, with people from other nations, other lands.
(19:51):
And I, I’m, I’m, I’m blessed and fortunate that I’ve been able to be in 40 different nations. And so when I meet my Nigerian friends and I say, oh, did you bring any [inaudible] you know, and I asked them about, oh, you got [inaudible] you know, <inaudible>, you know, I talk about the food. We make that connection. I do that with my, with my Muslim friends, with my Hindu friends. And I, I try to learn a little phrase in each language where I go. And so when I meet someone I can just drop a few words and shoot because I know what it’s like. My wife’s an immigrant. English is not her first language. She’s from Sweden. We met in India, got engaged in Nigeria. My mom and dad were immigrants that come to this land. I grew up in a street where every house was built by an Italian.
(20:32):
I always felt like I didn’t belong. I always felt like I was an outcast. And if you’ve never lived in another country, you don’t understand what that’s like. I lived in Sweden for four years. I know it’s like to feel like you’re an outcast. You don’t understand the culture, the jokes, the language I to learn it. And I think as the ch Canadian church, what an incredible opportunity. But we gotta break out of our old Canadian mindset and realize our nation has changed. We are, we per capita. I read yesterday or this week per capita, Canadians have brought in more new immigrants than any other nation on the planet. I am a hundred percent in favor of it. And the opportunities to win them, to befriend them, open up an English as a second language, put on an international day, you know, invite your Muslim friends in.
(21:23):
I invite, I met an Iranian family at the park and I’m teasing with the guy and I said, teach me some Farsi. He says, [inaudible] gum. Which is really rude way of saying get lost. He shows up in my church months later, I look at him and I said, gum show. Gum show. He laughs cuz he knew I remembered him. And so his son comes to our, to our youth. He’s like, I’m a Muslim, but he’s coming to our youth. It’s a long game we’re playing, you know. But I think that’s, that is an awesome opportunity as Canadians and you know, we, we have a, you know America, you have the melting pot. It’s
Evangelist Daniel King (21:57):
A great opportunity. It is. And the church needs to take advantage of it. Yeah.
Anthony Greco (22:00):
And you know what? Those people are open for signs and wonders and even I read a study that nine out of every 10 Canadians has had some kind of supernatural encounter. What a great conversation starter. You ever have a spiritual experience and all of a sudden, so what do you think of spiritual reality? It could be a ghost or a demon or something, you know, something really. But we are, Canada has changed, our mindset has changed. And I think, yeah, it is an opportunity.
Evangelist Daniel King (22:26):
That’s awesome. Well, pastor Anthony, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I appreciate it.
Anthony Greco (22:31):
Oh, well thank you so much
Evangelist Daniel King (22:32):
Daniel. I know we could talk for a long time. You’ve got so many stories. Thank you so much. Another
Anthony Greco (22:36):
Time. Thank you.
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Tyrella Smith | Gospel Fire for All Nations
Tyrella Smith was one of my students at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Since then she has preached to thousands of people in Tanzania and Zambia. Now she is planning a major stadium event in the middle of Canada. She is an on-fire evangelist who is ready to light a Gospel fire all over the world.
Learn more about Tyrella Smith: https://gospelfireforallnations.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:03):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Terrell Smith. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It’s such an honor. Dr. King. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
You were one of my students at, that’s correct. The Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Yeah. Led by Evangelist Daniel Kolinda <laugh>. And you were in the first That’s right. Graduating class of the Evangelism Bootcamp. Yes. And so tell me, what has God done in your life since you were there at the bootcamp?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, first of all, I just wanna say it’s such an honor. Dr. King was one of my teachers and one of my favorite teachers. You gave amazing homework that really helped prepare us for where, where we are all working and where we’re all headed. But since being in the bootcamp, I did three Decapolis Crusades, two in Tanzania, and then the last one was in Zambia. And that was amazing. So I actually got to preach on Delos in the city of Kassam and just all of the tools that we, we needed to identify the storytelling proclamation and then actually moving into signs, wonders and miracles. I mean, we learned that at, at the bootcamp and from this amazing teacher. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:24):
Well, thank you. So Deus is mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from the, the region in the New Testament where there were 10 cities. 10 cities. And so the idea is that Christ for All nations goes into a country mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and does multiple events in multiple cities at the same time. Yeah. And so all of the graduates from the Evangelism Bootcamp, they go in and help Yeah. To organize the events. And, and, and then as they become competent in sharing the gospel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, then they get to actually get up on the platform and, and preach hundred percent. So what was that like? You got to stand mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in, in front of a sea of people, see thousands of people. Did you ever imagine that you would do something like that?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, I had had prophetic dreams from the Lord. And in 2018 I was invited by Christ for All nations to go to a crusade in Port Harcourt, Nigeria. And I remember watching this happen and saying to myself, why am I here? And God spoke to me and he said, I need you to see what you’re going to be doing one day. And so that was the first time I ever saw a crusade lie. And the passage that God put on my heart was when when Jacob put his flocks in front of the water, he put stripe, he put speckled, and then they bore fruit according to what they saw. And so as we’re on de capitalist, as we’re at school, as I was at the crusade, God was teaching me to see what I would be able to produce in him through the power of the Holy Spirit, through good training.
(02:56):
And so, you know, we learned how to do just like He the work of an evangelist. So that’s the prep work. And we do 80% of that before we even get to the microphone. And then here we are standing in front of the microphone and we’re standing in front of a sea of people, and every single one of them is a single person on the field. And it’s like Jesus is standing them, standing there with them as if they’re the only one. And so as you’re preaching, you’re preaching at with a point, you’re preaching with a spear and asking God to use those words to pierce the heart and bring a whole multitude to Christ as if they were the only person on the field. And it was, it was incredible. And just to be there in that moment, catching a net of fish with the power of goalie spirit. Absolutely. Epic. There’s nothing like it. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:51):
So let’s talk about the Evangelism Bootcamp. It’s a pretty intense time Oh yeah. Of, of study and learning about God, and then learning about evangelism Yeah. And really sharpening your gospel message. Yeah. What are some of the things that you learned while you were there at boot camp?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh, my favorite. Now this has actually transformed my ministry in Canada, and even when I do personal evangelism. And that is the powerful art of storytelling. And Jesus said he never spoke to anyone. He did not speak to the crowds unless he used a parable. And so it’s, I actually remember one class that Dr. King talked about, and I hope that he says this everywhere he goes, but storytelling is like throwing out rubies, diamonds, gold nuggets. And then they, when you tell a story, they trip on the truth of the story and they pick it up and they own it for their, for their very self. So storytelling and then applying the gospel of Jesus Christ, to it turns a light on inside of them, and they own the understanding of that their sinners, that they need a savior and that they can be and filled with the Holy Spirit. So I would say that was the biggest, one of my biggest takeaways was storytelling <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:08):
And you were in a full week of my classes. Yes. What are some of the things that you learned from the classes that I taught?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah. So one of the classes that you taught, doc you taught was actually how to go through a passage from top to bottom and actually go back and forth from the passage to application. And so that was really great as well as one of my favorite things was applying the story. And like, Zakia, when you as Zakk came to see Jesus, Jesus came to see Zakia. And today you have come and Jesus has come to meet you. So you are a master at I wanna say expounding through a passage, but also on the application. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:59):
It’s so wonderful that you are a Canadian evangelist. <Laugh>, my wife Jessica is con Canadian. Yes. And both my kids are Canadian. So three quarters of our family are Canadian. And so of course we have king Ministries Canada here. Okay. And so, so many Canadians are, are very generous mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with the gospel and, and have helped to support Amen. The Amen festivals and crusades that we do around the world. And, and so I think God’s raising up a new generation of, of Canadian evangelists mm-hmm. <Affirmative> like Amen. Canada has always sent missionaries out Yes. To many different parts of the world. Yes. but there’s, there’s such a huge need here in Canada for, for more real, genuine evangelists who will proclaim the gospel. You, you’re one, now you’re
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Speaking my language,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:43):
<Laugh>. And so talk to to me about that. What, what do you see God doing here in Canada?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Okay. I’m so like, ugh, such an honor to have that question asked. Because actually after taking the bootcamp, I head off to Tanzania. It is wild. And it’s so busy. And you just need five minutes to yourself with your daughter. You forget who you are. And so I go into my room and I say, Jesus, I just, I just need to hear something from you. And he speaks to me very clearly, and he says, the Great Canadian harvest. And all of a sudden I saw these combines lined up all in a row, whoosh. And they would clear a field, whoosh. They’d clear another field, just absolute unity. And now I’m from the prairies. So, you know, we don’t often see a lot of combines on a field at, at once and certainly not lined up. But I understood what the Lord was saying, and it was this, that the proclamation evangelist has come and is coming back into Canada, and we’re gonna see that renormalize in this season. It’s time to go back to mass salvation within our borders and to renormalize the Canadian evangelist. And we’re starting to see a surgeon’s resurgence of evangelism. Right. We’re seeing everybody’s hungry to talk about Jesus. Right. But there’s a proclamation of the gospel that needs to go out. Like it goes out from the mountains and for people to gather around the sound of God’s words and the power of the Holy Spirit to land on those words. And we’re seeing it now. We’re seeing it now,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:21):
<Laugh>. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and you are friends with Brad Meyer? Yes. He’s going with me next month to Ethiopia. Amazing. And we’re going to be preaching together there on the fields. Yes. A harvest fields of Ethiopia. And he’s a great evangelist. He’s got a powerful group, a Facebook group encouraging evangelists in That’s right. Canada and around the world. Yes. He really has a, a gift for that. What are some of the things you’ve, you’ve learned from your relationship with, with Brother Brad?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Absolutely. Hands down is compassion. When you see Brad think of him as just an evangelist, but behind the scenes, I’ve watched him weep at the joy of a miracle. Now, many evangelists, they’ll be like a miracle. But when Brad sees a miracle, he’ll often cry and he’ll tell the story because he knows that a miracle changes the life. It’s not just a supernatural power of God, it’s the supernatural power of God applied to a broken life. And so that’s one of the things that we see, I think with Brad, is the personality of, of our God with the power of God. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:28):
Yeah. So I’m gonna put a, a link to where people can join the, the life group Yeah. Of evangelists. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because if, if you’re a Canadian evangelist, you really need to get connected with other Canadian evangelists who have a heart mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for the gospel. So what are some of the things that God’s put on your heart coming up? What mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what are some of the outreaches that you’re gonna do here in the next Yes. Few months and, and years.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yes. <laugh>, thank you for asking. So one thing that God has really spoken to my heart, and I really wish I had it here right now, but you can see it online is I said to God, I feel like it’s time for the proclamation of the gospel to go out. And I had been thinking about Sastel Center since 2018. And so last spring I said, God, like if this is you, if you wanna see Sast Health Center filled with people hearing the gospel, I said, you put something in my hands today and I’m a hundred percent in, I’ll do it. But if you don’t, I’m a hundred percent out and I will never think of it again for as long as I live. And within an hour a gentleman came up to me and he put two photos in my hands. One was Billy Graham preaching in Sastel Center, and the other was a picture of the promo.
(10:45):
Nobody knew what I’ve prayed. And I said, okay, God, we’re in. So since then we set the date June 2nd through fourth in Saskatoon, at Sastel Center Stadium. Wow. And we have Charity Gale coming. And one of the other things is we had a farmer show up and he said, Terrell, he says, I’ve got a problem. I said, brother, tell me cuz he was the donor. And so we’re gonna pray for him cuz it’s about partnership. Right. And he says, well, I’ve got all this grain and I gotta move my grain. So now I’m thinking, okay, I need to pray into the marketing. Cause you gotta market your grain. I have to pray into the shipping or whatever, and I’m just starting to calculate how I’m gonna pray for this brother. And he says, no, you don’t understand. He says, I need to give you this grain.
(11:29):
I said, bro, what am I gonna do with grain? I grow grass. I’m not a farmer. Right. And he says, no. He says, you’re gonna sell this grain. And so we sell it, and it was enough for the price of the stadium. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And then another person another ministry came and I said, you know, I really feel like God’s telling us to get Charity, Yale to come because she’s not a worship entertainer. She is a worshiper worshiper. Right. And I could not get through to save my life. I couldn’t get through. And so now I’m in Zambia and I’m with this incredible evangelist Rachel Smith, which is funny. We Oh,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:08):
Yeah. Rachel Smith is a great woman of God. She’s
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Amazing, she’s wonderful. And so we’re in Zambia together, we’re having a great time. She says, Terrell, tell me about your event. And I said, well, I feel like I’m supposed to get Charity Gale, but I can’t get through it. And she says, well, listen, I got you. That’s my worship leader’s best friend <laugh>. And then this other ministry steps up and says, I’m gonna pay for the whole bill. Wow. So we still need to raise $200,000, but we’re on the go and we’re just gonna keep moving because Jesus is moving. And people want to gather, not for any big logos or egos, but just to calm into the presence of the Lord and bring somebody else to meet ’em. And that’s just where we’re at. This thing is gonna wrap the ca the, the country is gonna just be wrapped with the gospel
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:57):
And fire. Amen. Well, I believe that this will be the first of many amazing outreaches across the nation of
Speaker 2 (13:04):
God’s doing it Canada.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:05):
He’s doing it. And so if someone’s listening and they want to participate, they want to help with some of the cost of this, this great Canadian outreach what is your website? How can they be a part of what God is doing? Or if they want to come and be a part and, and, and thank you, get their church involved or, or get other evangelists involved, how can they contact
Speaker 2 (13:23):
You? Absolutely. So the event is called Come together.day, come together.day. Okay. You can go on there. You can learn all about the event June 2nd through fourth at Sastel Center Stadium in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. On there you’ll see a donate link. All we need is literally 220 people to give a thousand bucks or 2,200 people to give a hundred bucks so that other people can hear the gospel. And it’s done. It’s done. And we’ll see the kingdom come.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:56):
Amen. And what’s your personal website?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
My personal website is Gospel fire for all nations.org. And you can see come together on there as well. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:06):
Well, let’s finish by praying for the Nation of Canada because I know it’s on your heart, <laugh>. And let’s, let’s pray for, for people to be saved across Canada. Amen. And for God to raise up evangelists across Canada. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
All right. Well, first of all, God, I just want to thank you for Dr. King here in this nation, in these borders. And Lord, I want to thank you for the power of his presence in this nation. And I’m asking God that you release his feet with fire upon our own land, and that you anoint him with great power, Lord, to strengthen this nation when he comes back and as he goes into these other places, strengthen him there as well. And God, we wanna thank you right now in the name of Jesus Christ, that Canada right now is being saved, that you have marked out within our borders, those that you have anointed, that you’ve chosen, that the spirit of God is upon them to preach the gospel to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted and to set the captives free. And God, I thank you that your eyes are on our nation and that our nation currently right now is being stirred by the power of the Holy Spirit and that you are saving our nation.
(15:14):
Now, God, I thank you even for some of the shakings that we’ve had that has ripened the grain. Help us to mobilize collaboratively, Lord, to see the kingdom of God come in people’s lives. And that heaven would be full in your mighty name, in Jesus’ name, God. People say, come quickly Lord Jesus. And I say, God, wait. Our nation must be saved. Have mercy and bless us, and fill us with fire and with the presence of God and anoint us God, to see every soul saved or hearing the gospel in this season. In Jesus name. Bless us, God bless us and make us a blessing to you. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:55):
Amen. Amen. Canada shall save. Amen. <laugh>, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast and
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Thank you for everything you do. I really respect your work. God bless you.
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Jon “Razz” Laframboise | What is Your Unique Evangelistic Expression?
Jon Laframboise is passionate about bringing Revival Fire to Canada. He serves as a staff evangelist at a local church in Calgary, Alberta. He loves to activate believers to share their faith. On today’s podcast he asks, “What is your Unique Evangelistic Expression?”
Connect with Jon “Razz” Laframboise on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Jon.r.laframboise
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me. I am in Calgary, Alberta, up in Canada. And John is a good friend. He’s been a friend for many years, and you’re gonna have to help me with pronouncing your last name. You’re such a good friend. I don’t even know how to say your name.
Jon Laframboise (00:21):
It’s okay. [inaudible]
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:23):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. So you have a calling from God mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from on your life to be an evangelist. That’s right. And you went to Bible school? The same Bible school that my wife went to or that she was associated with the ministry there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it was called WIBI. Do you remember what the initials stand for?
Jon Laframboise (00:46):
WEBI stands for World Impact Bible Institute.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:49):
And so it was the Bible School of Pastor Peter Youngren. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, who is an evangelist here in Canada. And he was doing crusades in many different parts of the world. And I actually wanted to learn from him as a young evangelist. And so I called up his office and said, can I come and meet with you? And he said, I’d love to meet with you, but not here in Canada. Come with me to Africa. And so I went with him to Congo, Africa. And at that time my wife Jessica was working for Pastor Peter as a crusade director. As a festival director. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so she was organized, the festival and everything. And so that’s where me and my wife met. And so you knew my wife ever since the, the webi days.
Jon Laframboise (01:35):
That’s right. Yeah. So she started working for Peter Youngren at the tail end of my time at the Bible School. And then I went to, in Indonesia as a missionary. And that’s, she actually came through Indonesia with Peter Young’s ministry organizing a festival, healing festival. And she stayed with us for a few days in Indonesia.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:52):
And so tell me a little bit about the ministry that you did while you were there in Indonesia.
Jon Laframboise (01:56):
So a lot of it started off just going from village to village. You know, doing these well house to house stuff, smaller house meetings and whatever else. But then we wanna do something a little bigger, a little bit more impact. So we started going villages. I bought a portable sound system that we just bring with us, you know, portable, you know, but bring it with us to different villages. And started doing healing festivals or crusades and just started preaching the gospel and praying for people, seeing people getting healed. So they just, and from there it just, the reputation just kind of grew and grew and grew and grew. And even before the tsunami that happened in 2005 or four we actually went to Acce where the province where it happened, you know, and then we got kicked out pretty quickly. They weren’t sold under Muslim Sri law, you know, they drove us out. But it just kept on going in as much as you could, trying to just preach Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:47):
So you are a Canadian evangelist. That’s right. And you are here in Canada and evangelism is different in every different part of the world. Kind of talk to me about how evangelists are received here in Canada.
Jon Laframboise (03:02):
Well, it’s so funny as like a city like Calgary, you know, you know, the reception will change from person to person. We are a massively multicultured city, you know, so I always say, like, joke around saying, if your city is predominantly Caucasian, then you’re not reaching our city. You know, we have a lot of Africans, we have a lot of Middle Eastern people, we have a lot of Southeast Asians, we have a lot of, you know, Canadians, if you put it that way. So there’s, it’s a, it’s a wide reach. So it depends on what sector of the city. For example, in our city of Calgary, but even in Canada as well, much like the us, lots of vary cultures. So the, lately now we’re seeing within the church, the evangelistic ministry being more and more accepted, more realizing like, oh, we are needed for years and past.
(03:45):
It was almost the, you know, the outcast son, if you would like, yeah, we know you’re part of us, but let’s hold you at bay because we don’t quite trust you yet. But now there’s been a lot of reconciliation in churches in terms of the different evangelistic ministries, you know, and more of an acceptance of it. But even so, the ministry of it, outside the four walls of the church it’s when done right, if I could put it that way. It’s widely well received, I think, where if we really focus on that Roman two force, the goodness of God, that leads people to repentance. You know, when we share the real, true, genuine, raw love of Jesus and not the preconceived notion of the world thinks Jesus is, it’s pretty well received.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:24):
I think it’s really neat what God has done here in Canada, cuz there are so many different nations and cultures mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that have moved here. Canada has been very welcoming to people from many different nations. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And in some ways the mission field has come to Canada. I mean, Canada has always had a heart for missions that the churches of Canada have sent missionaries out mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to many different parts of the world. And now the mission field has come to Canada. And I, I think it would be very valuable for Canadian churches to, to think about it in those terms mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and think how are we going to reach these people that God has brought to our own backyard? Yep. And so right now you are actually serving as a evangelist at a church mm-hmm. <Affirmative> here in Calgary. That’s right. And so you used to be a full-time evangelist traveling around and, and ministering at a variety of different churches and bringing revival and activating people for evangelism. But about a year ago, God gave you the opportunity to start on, on staff at a church mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so what does that look like? Being an evangelist, but fitting into the vision of a local church?
Jon Laframboise (05:31):
At first it was, it was difficult tr to define that and piece it. You know, we’re still defining what that looks like. You know, both my pastor and I, you know, I spent 17 years traveling full-time. He spent several years traveling. So we both had the same attitude, the same mindset of, of of an itinerant ministry. But when it comes down to boiling it down to a local church, you know, he’s a senior leader, the episodic leader, you know, and I’m the evangelist. So it’s we’re still forming what that actually looks like, you know, cause it seems like a new concept really in modern day church. But really what I’m tasked with is creating an evangelistic culture within the, the church. Right. Equipping the believers, you know, for the sake of harvest. You know, and, and really what I’m finding a lot of what I need to do is actually redefine what evangelism looks like to the everyday believer. Cuz a lot of us, we have this, this preconceived notion, whether it’s an early childhood experience or or whatever it is, that you think, oh, when I hear the word outreach or evangelism, it means going door to door and it’s relegated to one particular style, technique or method. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:36):
So people, when you say evangelism, they think, oh, if, if I’m gonna do evangelism, I have to be willing to go and cold call someone, talk to them Yeah. Without ever having seen them before. Yeah.
Jon Laframboise (06:47):
It, yeah. So really, so it’s, and I see evangelism, it, it breaks outside of the method. You know, I always tell people that I don’t win souls because I’m an evangelist. I win souls because I love Jesus. You know, and evangelism in its most purest form, I would define it this way, that it’s falling so in love with Jesus, that you allow the world to look into the intimacy you have together. You know, when you, when you adopt that as a, the, the foundation of evangelism, it takes away the method, the technique or whatever else. And it just opens up for interpretation of how can I share the love of God with someone, you know, however that looks for you compared to someone else. It, it’s wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:24):
So as an evangelist who’s on staff at a church helping to activate the church in evangelism, do you think every church should hire an evangelist to be their staff evangelist?
Jon Laframboise (07:35):
Oh, I would love that. I’d be absolutely wonderful. You know, like it’s, God gave the five fold for the equipping, perfecting and the maturing of the saints. Well, it’s hard for a pastor to equip someone in evangelism the same way. It’s hard for a teacher, you know, to equip people to, you know, in, in prophecy or whatever else. It works better when you have that person called to that area to lead someone and train them in that particular area. You know, like evangelists don’t make good pastors, but pastors make great pastors and pastors don’t make good evangelists, you know, and vice versa, apostles, you know? Yeah. They could.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:08):
And sometimes I think there’s an antagonism between people who have a gift of pastoring and people who have a, a gift of the evangelists. But what we need to really understand is that both gifts are needed in the body of Christ. Well, a hundred percent. And, and so what do you think the evangelist brings to a church? What, what does a church need that an evangelist brings?
Jon Laframboise (08:29):
Yeah. What I think an evangelist really does, it breaks down the walls of separation between the world and the church. Now, there is a separation between the two, obviously. But it breaks down the division between the two in terms of, it puts a zeal in believers. There’s a contagious impartation, a contagious zeal, and a passion for the lost where it breaks outside of the, I’m comfortable in the four walls of the church and allows you to go out into the world to actually reach the loss and show the love of Jesus. It really brings an impartation and a zeal and a passion, but also an activation for spiritual gifts, I believe where, you know, in Acts one, eight, you know, and Jesus says, you know, go into the world and you know, or you know, you’ll be, see power. You’ve been my witnesses.
(09:11):
Right? Well, the power of God is, is meant to be a witness. It’s not meant to put on really cool conferences or revival meetings, which those things are great, but it’s meant to be a witness, right? We’re meant to go out into the world with the power to witness of the resurrection of Jesus. And I really believe that the ministry evangelists brings a drive behind that. It really brings a, a forceful, but yet also with gentle pushing outside the four walls of the church to go be the light, go be the salt, you know, go be that lamp that the world needs you to be.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:42):
So you’ve taken teams down to an area of Vancouver mm-hmm. <Affirmative> where there is huge need. So talk to me about what that area in Vancouver looks like, and then how you were able to, to evangelize there.
Jon Laframboise (09:56):
Yeah. So this area, Vancouver’s called East Tasting. It’s in the downtown’s called the downtown East side. So it’s actually right next to Roger’s place, which is where the Vancouver connects place only three blocks away. So it’s interesting where it’s multimillion dollar real estate all around it. But yet is there, is this really concentrated in a three or four block radius where it’s open intravenous drug use, it’s homelessness to the extreme. It’s massive drug and alcohol abuse. It’s, it’s it’s really a deprived area where it seems that they concentrated all these people suffering with addiction to kind of, they, they pushed them all into one area. So it’s, it’s really almost like the armpit of Canada in terms of just like, what’s, how the devil’s run rampant there. So every couple months we would take teams down there and just love on people, pray for them, you know, display the love of God, and, and just also just bringing value, trying to add an element of value to the individual.
(10:54):
Like as one particular person, I’ll never forget this and I just asked ’em how they’re doing, you know, and, you know, good, you know, very short answers. And then and I just asked him, I was like, Hey, like, what’s your story? Like, how did you end up here? And then he asked me, look at me there in the eyes and says, do you really want to know? I said, I will go. Let’s go. I’ll buy you coffee. Let’s go for lunch and share your story with me. And he starts crying and he says this, but seven years since I’ve been able to share my story with someone, seven years since anyone wanted to talk to me, like really have a meaningful conversation with me. And that’s heartbreaking, right? So we’re going down there, we’re listening to these people’s stories and just sharing and imparting the love of the father. And with them, we will pray for them, you know, and those who we see some love of breakthrough, we’ll try to get ’em connected with a local mission that’s down there, or a local recovery center. And seen some level of success in that as well. It’s been absolutely wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Earlier when we were talking, you had a, a great idea. It, you it the unique
Jon Laframboise (11:54):
Yeah. Finding your unique evangelistic expression.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:57):
So your unique evangelistic expression, and I think you should trademark that. Yeah. <laugh>, your, your u e e, right? That score. And, and, and so talk to me about that concept. When you go into a church and you’re talking to people about evangelism mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what does that mean? That, that each person would have a unique evangelism expression.
Jon Laframboise (12:16):
So I don’t feel like, for me, the way that God uses me, like I, I am bold, brash. I don’t mind walking up to a complete stranger and striking up a conversation, maybe having a word of knowledge for him or a word of encouragement for him. And and just going right into it, into that. But that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Some people hear that and they think, oh gosh, not in a million years uhuh, I have to have like five angels appear to me. Jesus himself has to hold me by the hand and leave me out to do that with someone. But sometimes when you, when you know, train people in evangel, when you teach ’em, that’s the cold call if you would, some people, it turns off a lot of people to it. But when you approach it with the definition I talked about earlier, you know, falling so in love with Jesus, you allow the world to look into the intimacy you have together that opens a door of opportunity for anything.
(13:05):
For example, let’s say that you’re a really good baker. You know, why not ask the Lord what your neighbor’s favorite pie is, or favorite cookie or whatever it is, and bake ’em that particular pie or cook whatever it is that God leads you into. And just knock on the door, Hey, I’m so-and-so, I’m your neighbor. You know, we either you know them, you don’t know them, doesn’t matter. He’s like, I just felt like God wanted me to bake you this pie. Like, do you like apple pie? It’s like, oh, it’s my favorite pie. Like, how do, like, oh, the God told me to bake you this pie. Or you know, or whatever. Maybe you’re really good at hosting parties. You love hosting parties. Invite your neighbors in, you know, just host a really good party and, and get to know them. Be relational with them.
(13:41):
So it’s finding something in a natural that God could put his supernatural dynamic. You know, you look at Moses at the burning bush. God asks Moses, Hey, what’s in your hand? He says, well, God’s his staff. He’s familiar with his staff, you know, shepherds with it. You know, he used as a walking stick, I’m sure probably use it for self-defense. And maybe he has some cool ninja moves he did with it. Who knows, you know, <laugh>. But with this staff that he’s familiar with, God puts a supernatural dynamic behind it. And with it, he delivers an entire nation. So what is it that you’re comfortable with? What is it you’re familiar with that God gca put a supernatural dynamic behind and then use that as an opportunity to preach the gospel or, or bring deliverance to people or healing or whatever else, you know? So it’s finding out how does God use you to preach the gospel?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:28):
One of the unique challenges here in Canada is this concern that has arisen lately about hate speech. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so in the, the Charter of Rights in Canada, freedom of speech mm-hmm. <Affirmative> is guaranteed mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but there is concern that you shouldn’t use freedom of speech to, to speak in a hateful manner against someone. And the the hate is a little bit in the ears of the listener. Like if they feel like you’re, you’re saying something like, for example, if, if, if you’re preaching the gospel and they feel condemned by some aspect of, of what you’re saying, they can label that, that hate speech. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So this is a problem across Canada. Yeah. And specifically here in Calgary you have people that are, have been fined mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for what they’ve been saying. What balance do you think evangelists should have in being faithful to the, the truth of the gospel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but also not getting fined by the government, you know, banging the laws of the government.
Jon Laframboise (15:31):
Yeah. So a lot of these fines especially here in Calgary, just passes bylaw. Like there’s a hate speech. So it’s, this particular law is just within the confines of Calgary where someone interprets it, something that’s hateful, then it’s, you know, up to a $500 fine. But even as Canada as well, a lot of it is geared towards the l gt Q to I’m, I’m not sure I’ll deal the way you put the, properly put it now. But that community where it’s, there’s an anti conversion therapy bill that’s passed. So if you counsel, if I were as a pastor, were to counsel someone, if even if they come to me saying, Hey, I’m suffering with same sex attraction and I don’t want it anymore. Legally, I can’t counsel that person because, you know, if someone found out that I can get fined and potentially go to jail.
(16:18):
So I think that minister’s, pastor’s, evangelists, absolutely, you gotta stay true to it. But in terms of the out outside the four walls of the church and presenting the gospel, you know, is it says that the holy spirits, the one is gonna convict the world of righteousness, oh, sorry, convicted world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. You know, not us, you know, in Romans two, force the goodness of God at leads, people to repentance. So it’s the gospel needs as be centered around the goodness of who Jesus is. You know? And the whole message of repent. Well, the word repent loses so much in our culture. Cause we don’t know what it means. Right? It’s what change the way you think, go a different direction. Right? It’s a thought process change. But unfortunately we, we preach it as a turner burn type thing, which is really not what it is.
(17:02):
So it’s stay true to the message of the gospel, which is Jesus loves you. You know, John 3 16 17, God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son, you know, God, everyone believes in him, should not condemned, be condemned by however lasting life. And so stay true to that fact that, you know, while we’re so enemies of God, Jesus died for us and reconciled us to the Father. Right. So it seems like before we address a sin issue the individualistic sin issue, there is the overarching sin issue that needs to be addressed, which needs forgiveness. So once someone gets saved, and then Yeah. Move into something a little bit more detailed, refined. But I think that we could stay true to the message and the truth of the gospel without addressing a particular sin, and just address the fact that you need a savior.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:49):
Right. And we all need a savior. We
Jon Laframboise (17:51):
All do. Every
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:52):
Last sinners, we’ve all done things that are wrong, and we all need the forgiveness that can Absolutely.
Jon Laframboise (17:57):
It doesn’t matter what sin we deal with, we need Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:59):
And so you feel that there’s a way to communicate the gospel that doesn’t cross over into being hate speech. Yeah.
Jon Laframboise (18:07):
It’s what’s hateful was saying Jesus loves you and he wants to forgive you of your sins. Right. Of course. If someone asks you, well, what’s considered sin, then I think in that, you have to be able to carefully word it where, because what people say, well, is, is homosexuality a sin? What they’re really asking you is am is they’re asking you but their identity. Right. Because people identify with their lifestyle. It’s, it’s who I am. Right? So that’s how it becomes hate speech because you’re now, you’re def you’re speaking against me as an individual. So it’s trying to communicate in a way, let’s separate you from your lifestyle choices, right. And address you as a human being, not your lifestyle. Right. And until you can definitely preach the gospel with, without compromising the message at all, right. And still see, let’s stay true to what sin is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:54):
Well, I absolutely love that you have stayed true to your calling as an evangelist and working in Canada and in other parts of the world, and just bringing revival and bringing evangelism, getting people fired up about sharing their faith with others. And so just very honored to, to have you as a friend. And if someone is listening and they want to reach out to you, maybe invite you to come minister at their church or bring evangelism, maybe a Canadian pastor is listening, they’d like you to, to come sometime. What’s a, a good email that they can reach you at?
Jon Laframboise (19:30):
The best email to reach me at is info i n o harvest culture.com. That’s the best email for me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:38):
Awesome. Well, thank you John so much for being on. Thank the advantage of for Having Me
Jon Laframboise (19:41):
Podcast. Bless you.
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Stephen Strang | Spirit Led Living in an Upside Down World
Stephen Strang leads Charisma Media. They publish Charisma Magazine which had reported on the Spirit-Empowered movement for decades. Today we talk about three books on evangelism being published by Charisma House: It’s Our Turn Now by Mario Murillo; Ignite Your Life by Barry Meguiar; & Spirit-Led Living in an Upside-Down World by Steve Strang.
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Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest, Steve Strang from Charisma Media. Thank you so much for joining me today,
Stephen Strang (00:11):
And I’m excited to be with you. You’ve, as long as I’ve known you, you’ve been excited.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
Well, I love telling people about Jesus. Now, a charisma is a legend. When I was a teenager, I remember my mom and dad were subscribed to the Charisma Magazine and we would read all the stories of what God was doing around the world. And you have really been instrumental in helping ministries tell the world about Jesus for so many years. How did you get started in the whole publishing business and, and with the vision that God gave
Stephen Strang (00:47):
You? Well, I had an interest in writing and journalism going back to high school trained to be a journalist. And you know, there’s a lot of media that don’t even touch anything Christian or spiritual. And if they do, it has to have a, a hint of scandal or controversy or something. So when the heyday of the charismatic movement there was a need for what we did, and I’ve been doing it. And, and by God’s grace, we’ve grown into lots of other kinds of media, especially as a digital age came. I like to tell people that when I started charisma, we were still using manual typewriters, literally. And of course, all that has totally changed. Now, now a lot of what we do are books and we’ve sold millions of copies of books and and a lot of them have to do with evangelism. And really evangelism needs to be a part of everything in the spiritual life. It isn’t like some people are like Christians over here, and then we’ve got these few evangelists, and it’s entirely up to them. No, it’s entirely up to all of us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:54):
And so you have several books here that you are publishing right now. Let’s start by talking about your brand new book. It’s called Spirit Led Living in an Upside Down World. That’s right. What is this book all about?
Stephen Strang (02:08):
Well, it’s about the power of the Holy Spirit, but in a way that’s almost like a cliche in, in especially in Pentecostal circles. Why does that exactly mean? A lot of things have been written about the Holy Spirit, everything from theological books to whatever. I try to take the look that we need that power more than ever. And I see a lot of people, even that claim to be spirit filled Christians, they don’t walk in it, they don’t experience, they’re discouraged. They feel like what I call the other side is winning again and again. And I’m saying that we have to have the power of the Holy Spirit to wa to experience the gifts of the spirit, the fruit of the spirit, just to survive. And I used the example that I heard from a preacher one time. He said that when you scuba dive the scuba gear will not keep you from getting wet, but it allows you to live in a hostile environment that would, that would kill a human being to be underwater for more than a minute or two.
(03:07):
But as long as you’ve got the scuba equipment and oxygen, you can stay down there indefinitely until the oxygen runs out. Well, to be in this upside down world. If we have the power of the Holy Spirit, we can have joy, we can have peace, we can have all these things, and we can live in this world regardless of if things are going right or not. And I think that that’s important. And then of course, if we’re gonna win the world at all or have any kind of impact on culture, it’s got to be through the power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, I tell the story that you know, as several decades ago, we got reports as far back as the 1950s that that missionaries, Christian missionaries who went from America from denominations that denied the power of the Holy Spirit when they got into countries where they had to really battled demonic forces, that they found that they couldn’t get along without the power of the Holy Spirit.
(04:05):
And they, they began receiving the baptism of Holy Spirit, you know, often from maybe meeting other missionaries or whatever. Well, they had the power to confront demonic demonic forces that we weren’t accustomed to the United States. Now granted, we have demonic forces. There’s always been sin, but guess what we are now having, we’re seeing spiritual warfare at a level we’ve never seen before. And I talk in here about evangelizing not as a specific topic, but when I talk about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, one of them is the spirit a word of knowledge. And I tell a story about Reinhart Bonky, the great evangelist who got a word of knowledge that his brother, who instead of becoming a gungho Christian, evangels had entirely gone the other way, almost in an agnostic or atheist. And his brother was going through a very difficult time.
(05:10):
His brother lived in Germany, Reinhardt was in Africa at the time, and his brother had just lost his marriage. He was considering taking his own life. He had a dream about being on a bridge. Well, at the same time, the Holy Spirit revealed to Reinhardt, he had a very similar dream, and he felt he should write his brother a letter. His brother was looking for some kind of sign that God was real. He ended up getting powerfully saved. Now, this was before the days of email, and I tell the story much, much better in the book, but it’s an example of where a word of knowledge caused someone to come to Christ. And that’s only one of many ways that the power of the Holy Spirit can help us. To me personally, it’s the boldness, it’s the confidence. It’s the reassurance that God is with you causes you to be bold instead of timid. So I think that for any, any Christian, I, in fact, I believe that the spirit filled life, or as I call it, the Spirit-led life should be normative. It should be the normal Christian life. It was in the early church. Of course, all kinds of things happen and different denominations and doctrines and so on and so forth. But it ought to be the normative Christian life in the same way the sharing Jesus should be normative.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:39):
You have documented many different moves of the Holy Spirit over the years. What sense do you get of what the Holy Spirit is doing right now?
Stephen Strang (06:51):
Well, that’s a good question, and it leads me to my next book. I believe that something, you know, things have been pretty bad, but we’re starting to see a shift. The revival at Asbury University is one example, but Mario Marillo, who people might know from the Victory Channel, and of course he’s been around since the Jesus movement.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:11):
And Mario is a great evangelist. He is full on evangelistic. He gives the greatest altar calls. In fact, I was just at a meeting he did in Tulsa, Oklahoma recently, where they packed out the maybe center and he gave the altar call. And so many people were getting saved. They, they couldn’t even fit them all into the altar.
Stephen Strang (07:33):
Well, I happened to be at the same meeting, and I went specifically because of Mario. I was tremendously touched myself. And you’re right, he is a powerful evangelist. But he started having, during the Covid shutdown in California, where they were almost dracony in the restrictions they put on, he’s, people would flock to his tents. And now of course he’s going other. But his book, his new book, which just came out, I right after New Year’s says, it’s our turn now with the idea that God’s plan to restore America is within our reach. That’s what the subtitle is. And I, I believe, in fact, he and I talked about it, I did a podcast with him that he, he believes what’s happening at Asbury and a lot of other places is an indication that people are spiritually hungry and they’re coming to Jesus you know, even during really difficult times like Covid was and everything else that’s going on. So I think that this would encourage people, it would give them insight. No book is gonna be the answer to everything except the book, which is the Bible. But our books try to encourage people, give them hope, tell stories that they wouldn’t know otherwise. And Mario is a great example.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:53):
I would love to see God raise up a whole new generation that has the same boldness as Mario Marillo to share the gospel. Now we have another book here. It’s by Barry McGuire and it’s called Ignite Your Life. And it, it’s not specifically about evangelism, but he’s very evangelistic in it,
Stephen Strang (09:13):
Right? It really is on evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:15):
Tell, tell me about it.
Stephen Strang (09:16):
Well, Barry McGuire is from McGuire’s Car Wax. It’s a company that his grandfather founded in 1901. He really took it to great heights to where it is the number one car wax brand in the world. And he was raised a Christian, he’s been a spirit led Christian for many, many years. He tells the story of how he has shared his faith every single day for 40 years. And this is the only book he’s ever written. And it tells his story. And we talked about the fact, and I don’t, maybe I shouldn’t say this, but within the publishing world, books written on evangelism, evangelism generally don’t sell very well. Well,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:03):
I’ve got a, a bunch of books I’ve written on evangelism, and that’s probably true. <Laugh> You, you wish they would because we wanna get people fired up, right? But then a book that has the secret to success does much better.
Stephen Strang (10:17):
Well, you know, there, I could talk since I’m a publisher for a long time about that, but people don’t very often read books they ought to read. People aren’t gonna buy a book that says you need to lose weight, you know, but they’ll read a book on how to get healthy, which may include losing weight. So we, this book kind of masquerades, maybe that’s not the best verb to use, but is his story. But his whole life is about leading people to Jesus and sharing his faith and being happy. He says, you’re so happy when you do this. And, and he talks about how, how he has energy, and he’s gone through some terrible ups and downs in businesses where he almost lost his business. At one point, his, his daughter tragically died as an fairly young adult. But the Lord brought him through because he had this passion to share Jesus and passion.
(11:17):
He, he gives a new definition to Romans 8 28, which is a very common scripture. All things work together for good, and Christians like to quote that. But the rest of the verse says, all things work together for good to those who are called according to his purpose. And why does the purpose of God that none should perish so that when you’re doing God’s purpose, which is sharing your faith, getting people to come to Jesus, that that’s when all things work together. And he elaborates on it much more than I am, tells this story in a very winsome way. And he has been enormously successful in lots of different venues. He had a television program on the Discovery Channel for like 18 years now. It was car crazy. It was about all these guys that love cars and they loved to sh and if they got a car, it’s gonna get the best shine with McGuire’s wax.
(12:15):
And, you know, they talk about all these things, but I’ll give you a personal example as I got to know him. As you know, as a professional, as a friend, before we did the book several times we would go out to eat without qu without exception. Some stranger would come up during the meal and say that, you know, he used to watch his car show with his dad, and they used to polish the car together. And, you know, this is the kind of feedback you would get. But, and often Barry would witness to these people right in front of us. And he also told stories that and he would also witness the waitress or the waiter. In fact, he told a story. He was in a restaurant in Springfield, Missouri, of all places. And he, and he asked the waitress, he said, when the food comes, we’re gonna pray.
(13:11):
We’re Christians, is there something we can pray for you about? And she said, yes. She said that a family member was almost in depression, that his daughter had been raped and brutally murdered, and he was just having a horrible problem and was very discouraged, obviously. And so Barry gave her his business card and wrote his cell phone number on it. Well, she called and told him, turns out he’s a car. Crazy guy. Watched him on tv. Couldn’t believe that the Mary McGuire reached out to him. Wow. And so he called Barry, Barry was able to share with him that he lost his daughter. Now she died of a disease, not a brutal murder, and was really able to minister to the guy. And again, he tells the story much better than I am. But that’s an example. And actually, I learned from his example that when I go into a restaurant, I did it twice this week, I will ask the server their name and say, is there anything we can pray for you about?
(14:18):
And it’s very interesting to see the expression on their face just instantly. Usually they have to think a little bit about it. I’ve had waitresses break down in tears. One lady said she was having a really bad day, and we said, well, we’ll pray for you. You’re better. She came back later and said, this morning I was with a friend, as the friend died. Wow. Now they knew the friend was dying. And she went there to comfort the lady, and she said she really appreciated us praying. One time I was with a friend and we prayed or asked the waitresses, we prayed for her. About 10 minutes later, another waitress came back and said my friend was back in the kitchen telling everyone that you’re praying for her. Would you pray for me? Now, we, we don’t always get that response. Sometimes people wanna pray for world peace or the war in the Ukraine or something like that, and we’re fine.
(15:14):
We’re sometimes we just pray a blessing on people. But that is a way to move people a little bit closer to Jesus. And it opens a door instead of just being strangers, you’re someone who care. And very, very often people say, even the ones who say world, pray for world peace, will just say, I really appreciate you reaching out like that. And it’s sort of a non-threatening, socially acceptable way to do it. And you know, there are some people that are just so hostile to God that they’ll practically curse at you. And I’ve, I’ve wondered if I would experience that. And I’ve done this dozens of times and have ne have never had anybody be rude. And, but it’s also touched me that I could tell that a lot of these people has have nobody to pray for them. And there’s been several that I felt led to to pray for on an ongoing basis.
(16:08):
I mean, as the Lord would bring the them to my mind. And you know, this is evangelism at a very low level, but it’s a door opener. And Barry is a good example. And, and when I first got to know him, I said to myself, how in the world do you share the four spiritual laws with somebody every single day? <Laugh>, I found that a lot of times he would speak to someone about the Lord and it would be simple. Something as simple as praying for a waitress. But I believe that that’s valid. And the fact is he does it day in and day out. He has led many, many people to the Lord from this very simple thing. And anyone, well, first of all, is a good story. I mean, it’s an American success story. And you get to know something about his life.
(16:54):
Like you read about the life of a great man or woman of the past. He of course is still with us. But beyond that, I think that people just can catch something of his spirit. That this isn’t something you just sit in a class and you take an exam and on do, do evangelism the right way. You memorize the script, so to speak. And maybe that works for some people, but it, it doesn’t work for most people. And people just think it’s hard. I’m gonna do it wrong. I’m gonna embarrass myself. No, it needs to be an outflow of everything in your life as we’re led by the spirit of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:31):
Even if you’re passionate about cars, God can use you to bring people to Jesus. And especially in the car world, you have people that would be interested in this book who are into cars that would never go to a church. Absolutely. And so God will give him a voice to reach people.
Stephen Strang (17:47):
And he knows all the statistics when you’re with He He’ll wax eloquent about car guys, which they say include women, women can be car guys too. It’s almost like a huge fraternity or something. And, and he, we talked about this, that a lot of people that know him for television or certainly McGuire’s Car Wax, will read the book outta curiosity and they’ll get the Christian message.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:15):
Let’s talk for a moment about Charisma Media. There are a variety of ways that you help a lot of ministries. You, you have articles that go up every day about what God is doing around the world. You also have a podcast network, and I have several friends that are on your podcast network and, and you’ve helped a lot of people start to have a voice in different areas that that wouldn’t have been able to do it without you. And you have this, this, this publishing. How can people find out more about what you do?
Stephen Strang (18:49):
Well, we have many websites. They could go to charismamedia.com, they could go to my own website, which is stevestrangbooks.com. Find out the books I’ve written. I’ve only written a handful of books. I’ve published a lot more. And but, you know, this is not about us. Yes, we’d like for them to subscribe to our charisma news.com website or our website for Charisma Magazine, so on and so forth. But we’re just trying to do what we can to get out the message. And we’re blessed to live in a great country where people can afford to buy books or they can afford to buy magazines. Although a lot of the things like podcasts and other things, and the websites of course, are absolutely free supported by advertising. But but I’d like to, I could tell people that with my book, it can be pre-ordered on amazon.com.
(19:41):
It, it won’t be released until May 15th, which is just a few days before Pentecost Sunday. Actually, the pre-orders help us Amazon holds onto the pre-orders and then they bill your credit card when they ship you the book, the day it comes out. And it helps get a momentum going. The New York Times looks at all those numbers, so it would help me if you wanna help me by ordering it. These other books are available in stores. You know, we like to say wherever Christian Books are sold, that’s not literally true because you always miss some places going, buying it from some of the online book sellers, including our own. It’s called My Charisma shop.com, where you’re buying directly from the publisher, but it’s usually easier for people cuz they have an Amazon account setup, Duane, Amazon, and these, these are great books. I just got the numbers this week.
(20:34):
They’re both doing very well as new books and, and I’m just you know, we do many books and yes, they’re all important, but I, but I believe so strongly in both of these books, these books that I’m wanting to push them. And I will just say that when I was 20 years old, if you can imagine me being 20 years old, I was in impacted by Mario, who’s a few years older than I am. He was already a dynamic fiery evangelist. And I went to a conference, actually, I went, actually after I was so impacted the first time I made it a point to go to some other conferences he was at, and actually went to Resurrection City in Berkeley, which was what they called their ministry back in the day. I was powerfully impacted by him, had no idea that our lives would intertwine like this. And I’m just really honored to be able to publish his book.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:30):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I I’m very thankful for your life. I remember a few years ago charisma did a little article about our ministry and, and since I’d grown up reading Charisma, I was like, wow, now I’ve really made it in ministry. So thank you so much for your,
Stephen Strang (21:46):
It’s not just a one and done. You know, as, as stories happen, as new initiatives are taking place we like reporting that people are tired of just bad news. People are tired thinking that Christians are always losing. No, there’s a lot of good things going on and part of our place in the media ecosphere is to report these kinds of things. So you need to help us by letting us know what God is doing in your ministry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:18):
Thank you Mr. Strang. Appreciate you being on The Evangelism Podcast.
Stephen Strang (22:21):
Thank you for the honor.
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Lewis Alexander | Great Commandment Network
Lewis Alexander is an expert on discipleship with the Great Commandment Network. He has created a discipleship diagnosis. This tool breaks down the discipleship process into forty distinct outcomes that a Spirit-Empowered disciple needs. On today’s podcast we talk about how the evangelist can connect evangelism and discipleship.
The Great Commandment Network: https://www.greatcommandment.net/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I am excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, Louis Alexander from the Great Commandment Network. Thank you for being on the podcast with me. Yeah,
Lewis Alexander (00:14):
Absolutely. Daniel, thank you for inviting me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Now, you are a discipleship expert. Expert. let’s start, if you could just tell me what does the Great Commandment Network do?
Lewis Alexander (00:27):
Oh, well, we partner with churches and ministries, denominations around the, the great commandment, loving God and loving others, and then fulfilling the Great Commission, which we think the Great Commandments in the Great Commission where Jesus said, you know, make disciple makers and teach them to observe all that I’ve commanded you. And we think the great commandment is something that was the starting point, you know to love God. And perhaps even the starting point for evangelism is to love God, the heart soul minus strength, and then love our neighbors, or so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Now sometimes great commission and great commandment have kind of been separated, but I think we really need to include both in, in what we’re thinking about. And, and then sometimes people separate evangelism and discipleship. Like you say you’re an evangelist and they say, well, what are you doing to really disciple people? But you know, every discipleship begins with evangelism. Absolutely. And so we really need both. We need good evangelism, but then we also need to take the people that respond to the gospel message and begin to raise them up Yes. In the things of the Lord. And you have actually done some really deep thinking on the discipleship process. You’re part of the, the e Empowered 21 Discipleship Commission. Yes. And over the last 12 years, you guys have been working to define spirit empowered discipleship and what that looks like. And kind of talk to me about the process and, and how you’ve been developing this.
Lewis Alexander (02:03):
Yeah, yeah. Daniel, thank you for those questions. You know, we started with the Ephesians for 11 and 12 that God gave some as apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints, for the works of service, works of their ministry. And so we kind of started with the premise, Daniel, that saints serve. And so we we took that word serve and we looked at the Greek and Hebrew words throughout the scriptures. And there were a couple of Hebrew words that we drilled down on and the scripture verse in the Old Testament associated with them. And then several New Testament words. And we did a cluster analysis and they clustered around four dimensions that a disciple, cuz we wanted to explore, you know, what would a disciple look like if one showed up?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:54):
And so you’re trying to define Yeah. What good discipleship looks like. Yes. And, and, and how to help people grow. And so by clearly defining this, then you can measure different areas where maybe a church or ministry is being successful in discipling people and then other areas where they need to work on.
Lewis Alexander (03:14):
Yes. Because we were, we were thinking, our former perspectives on discipleship wasn’t really working. We weren’t making disciple makers, you know, who make disciples. And so, you know, a lot of the models, discipleship models were more of a rational behavioral methodology. And we found that not being effective, it wasn’t spirit empowered. So we ended up starting with a premise that these need to be relational. You know, the great commandment is very relational. Love God, love your neighbor. That’s, that’s very relational, that they could only be fulfilled. Part couldn’t only, could only be fulfilled through spirit empowerment. So there, there isn’t any of our outcomes in there of like a disciple memorize the scripture because you could be a lost person and memorize scripture <laugh>. Now we’re gonna imply that it’s memorizing scripture is, is necessary. But these outcomes, we wanted to make sure they were spirit empowered.
(04:17):
And and certainly as we, you know, as we do evangelism, you know, we want to be led by the spirit and empowered by the spirit cuz it’s, it’s a work of the spirit in which people come to Christ. So that was important to us. And so they clustered around these four areas of loving the Lord when we did this cluster analysis of the word for serve loving the Lord or serving the Lord, serving his word, ministering the word men, loving, serving and loving people, ministering to people and serving his mission.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:50):
Okay. So you have these four different areas, Uhhuh, <affirmative>, that you are evaluating. So you’ve got loving the Lord, living his Word, loving people, and living his mission. Yes. And under each one of these different categories, you have 10 outcomes Yes. Of what it would look like to be successful for someone to, to grow in those areas. Yeah. All right. So let’s start with the first one, loving the Lord. Yeah. What are some of the outcomes Yeah. That you’re looking for under loving the Lord?
Lewis Alexander (05:23):
So, for example, we, I’ll get, I’ll talk about L two, which we call loving the Lord and the kin, number two of learning to listen to and hear God. And certainly, you know, in evangelism, I want to be listening to the Lord. I mean, you know, just give you a couple of biblical antidotes, you know, of Jesus when he tells his disciples, we must needs go to Samaria. And Jesus didn’t, Jews didn’t do that. And that word must needs die in, in the Greek delta epsilon iot is means in, in, in the king, in the King James has translated must needs. We, we gotta go. I’m, I’m listening to him. I’m hearing my father and he’s saying, go, go through Samaria. And Jews didn’t do that. But so right off the bat, Jesus is challenging some of the assumptions of his disciples, and they’re going to Samaria and he’s hanging out by a well, as you would know Daniel.
(06:18):
And, and this woman comes. And so he’s waiting on a woman and listening, listening to the Lord waiting on a woman. And she comes and he has this conversation with her. And, you know, the John four passage. And I’m sure it was a shock to disciples because apparent, you know, rabbis don’t really talk to women, but apparently this one does. But listening to and hearing God, you know, and, and the Lord will will guide us. I mean, Jesus was walking through Jericho and, you know, he stops at a tree and looks up and it’s, it’s that kiss. And he welcomes him down. You know, the welcome Matt’s out and arms open. And but I think that came from any said again that use that same Greek word, we must needs go to your house. And so we think that Jesus is listening to and hearing God, and that that’s probably an important outcome that we would. All right. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
All that is under L two listening to and hearing God for direction in discernment. And so yes, you would want people to grow in that as they go through the disciple Yeah. And ship process. So some of the different categories that you would have are outcomes that you’re looking for under loving the Lord would be practicing Thanksgiving and all things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> experiencing God as he really is through deepened intimacy with him. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> rejoicing regularly in my identity as his beloved. And so you’ve got 10 outcomes there. Yes. And then the second area is living the word.
Lewis Alexander (07:43):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:44):
What are some of the outcomes that you’re looking for under living the word?
Lewis Alexander (07:47):
Yeah. Let’s, so we, we kind of sometimes talk about I’ll put my glasses on here so I can read <laugh> you know, do the book. So I’ll just talk about w two for a minute there. Which is outcome number two under, under the word living the word, being in a living epistle, you know, so that we’re you know, people are reading our lives, Daniel. So hopefully they’re gonna be filling the vibe from me of this guy is a safe guy. You know, we’re if I’m sitting by you on a plane and, you know we’re having a conversation, you feel safe and you feel like you can trust me and we can have this conversation. And I’ve, I’ve led people to Christ on airplanes just by trying to, to have this vibe of being a living epistle, of wanting to know and care about them, you know, in, in my life.
(08:45):
And I remember can I share a little amdo story with you? So I was, I was on a plane from Charles de Gall Paris flying to Istanbul, and it’s about a four and a half hour flight. And I had done it, you know, several times. And so I know what I’m in for. You gotta sit there and you don’t know who’s gonna sit by you. And so having some of these human interest questions like, you know, tell me one of your your most celebratory days. And so I’m sitting by this guy named Moot Lou, and he’s he’s a Turkish businessman. He’d been selling forklifts in Paris. And you know, I know I’m, I’m sitting by him for four and a half hours, so I wanna show interest in his life, you know, try to bridge to the gospel somehow.
(09:31):
And so I’m just asking him, I said, Hey, you know what, tell me about your, you know, one of your most celebratory moments in your life. And so here again, this is a Muslim guy, he’s from Turkey, and I’m an American Christian, so we’re worlds apart, you know, <laugh> and in terms of worldview. But I ask him, tell me about a time of rejoicing. And he tells me about when he got engaged with his wife, and he, you know, where he met her. He met her in a supermarket. Wow. I mean, all of a sudden this kind of me too moment of man, you know, guys in, in, in the states tried to pick up chicks in the supermarket too, you know, <laugh>. And he got her phone number in the line, and and you know, they went out and they dated for a couple years, you know, he brought her back to that same checkout line and proposed marriage to her.
(10:22):
And so he spends 45 minutes telling me this story, and, you know and I’m, I’m showing interest. I’m giving them my contact, I’m listening, you know, I’m, I have a smile on my face. I’m, I’m rejoicing with him. You know, I’m doing the Bible verse of, you know, Romans 1215, I’m trying to make a human connection. And so I’m trying to be a living epistle of Romans 1215. And and after 45 minutes, he said, well, what do you do? I said, well, I teach people how to love each other. And he was <laugh>. He couldn’t believe he was, he was like, what? And so I was able to just kind of tell him about why I do that and the love that Christ has for me, and I’m the beloved of God. And he had, he, I, you know, he was coming from a, obviously a Muslim background and the Quran, and I told him Jesus stories. I spent, you know, probably a, an hour or so just telling him Jesus stories. And he was so intrigued. He had never heard about Jesus, even Washington, his disciples, feet, things like that. And I seated the gospel, he didn’t pray to receive Christ that day, but he got a heavy dose of, of gospel. And that came from trying to be a living epistle on the plane.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:37):
Wow. That’s a great story. I really like how you’ve broken these 40 discipleship goals down into different outcomes that you’re looking for. So how do you measure Yeah. If someone is growing in these areas? Yeah.
Lewis Alexander (11:54):
Yeah. Thanks for asking. Right now we have a self-assessment of a lacker scale of one to five, you know, where going from, you know, I strongly disagree to, I strongly agree. And you just sort of self-identify where you would score yourself. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:14):
And sometimes just asking the question makes people realize like, Hey, I, I could grow. I need to grow in this area. Yeah.
Lewis Alexander (12:21):
Yeah. And then, you know, once you can identify that you know, you, you’re growing your self-awareness of identifying, oh yeah, you know, I, I need to work at learning to and listen learning to listen to and hear God. And maybe I don’t, maybe I need to ask God more. You know, God lead me who, who, who today can I share my faith with? And lead me to opportunities and see, see if the Lord is prompting you. But the more we start, you know, bringing that top mind and I can start moving the needle, you know, from a maybe a, a two mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that I disagree, that I’m listening to and hearing God to, maybe I move it to a four that, you know, I’m, I’m agreeing, I’m, I’m, I’m more consciously aware of that in my life and I’m trying to do that more.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:10):
Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing. Absolutely. if someone is interested in finding out more about what you do or more about the Great Commandment Network, what is your website?
Lewis Alexander (13:23):
Yeah, it’s great commandment, great commandment.net, and you’ll find a bunch of resources on there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:29):
And, and tell me a little bit more about what the Great Commandment Network does. Okay.
Lewis Alexander (13:34):
Yeah. We are a resource training ministry, and we partner with denominations and movements around the Great com, great commandment, great commission. Yeah. and so we provide resources to address freedom adequacy motivation in fulfilling the Great commandment, great commission. You know, sometimes I may want to do that, but I may have freedom issues, I may have my own fears, I may have unresolved pain or sometimes it’s adequacy. And so we create these resources. We have a lot of online resources.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:13):
You have complete courses, courses that people can go through, Uhhuh, <affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and, and learn about all this. And also how they can implement discipleship in their life and in their ministries. Yeah. Well, brother Lewis, thank you so much Yes. For being on the the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you
Lewis Alexander (14:29):
For asking
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:30):
Me. Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Daniel.
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Ron Luce | Reaching the Next Generation for Jesus
Ron Luce was the legendary leader of Teen Mania. For over thirty years he has done stadium events around the world and taken thousands of teenagers on mission trips. He is driven with a passion to reach the Next Generation for Jesus. Today you will hear about his vision for Project 13 and for Jesus Global Youth Day. He also gives me advice as a parent for how to raise my teenager to love Jesus.
Learn more about Ron Luce: https://generationnext.me/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today we have a very special guest. He is a legend Ron Lu. For over 30 years, you have been passionate about reaching young people for Jesus. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Ron Luce (00:19):
Sure. It’s great to be with you, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:21):
Well, let’s start at the beginning. How did you first get this passion from God for reaching the next generation?
Ron Luce (00:29):
Well, there’s nothing I asked for. I just got on fire for Jesus when I was 16. And even in my years right after that, at o u I started reaching out to young people. Cause I figured if God could get to me, I was the worst rascal of the bunch he could get to anybody. So I started in youth ministry while I was a student. And then right after I graduated from oru. My wife and I started in this ministry called Team Mania, which we developed a number of facets. One of them was acquired the fire conferences. And so by the grace of God, he let us stand in front of a lot of young people and, and our whole heart was let’s present the gospel in a fresh way. In maybe a way, even if you’ve been in church your whole life, that you’ve never understood it before.
(01:16):
And if you’ve never been in church a way that you’ve never, it’s never dawned on you. And then invite them to go on the, on a mission trip because we figured if we can get ’em for a weekend at a conference, that’s great, but if we can get ’em for two weeks, for a month on a mission field, we’ll wreck ’em forever in a good way. You know, we’ll wreck ’em for the American Dream and all that. So we took thousands of young people on mission trips over the years, thousands of thousands to some 80 different countries teaching them to share their faith and have quiet time and to, you know, all the, you know, discipleship kinds of things. And then they teach ’em to go back home and go change the world. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:51):
Yeah, team Mania had such a tremendous impact on so many young people. And I remember when I was about 14 or 15 years old, I lived in El Paso, Texas and you were doing acquire the Fire, I think here in Albuquerque. And so I was on a youth bus. We drove up here. There are thousands of people there and you just challenged us to live for God, and you gave an altar call and I was already saved. I grew up in a Christian home and my parents were missionaries, but I wanted to make double sure that I was going to heaven. And so I responded to that. Yeah. even as a, as a young person and just that, that challenge to, to give your whole life for God.
Ron Luce (02:36):
Well, and you know, we were, we’ve ki we kind of got branded as the Oh, you’re the radical guys. Cuz we would challenge people like read through the Bible in a whole year, like the whole Bible in a year kind of a thing. Or break up with your girlfriend or boyfriend and date God for a year. Like radical stuff. And other youth ministries are like, yeah, you don’t need to be that ra we want everybody to go on a mission trip, even if you’re not called full-time, just go one time. And, but think that’s how Jesus was. You know, he didn’t water anything down. He like, like, eat my flesh, drink my blood, or you have no part of me. And then people started leaving, he goes, anybody else wanna leave? Kind of thing. And so there, there is something to, I think the, what we found over the years is the more radical, the more you ask for, the more of their heart and their life they’ll give to Christ.
(03:19):
You know? And so if you ask for less, that’s what you’ll get. And you end up wa wondering why they respect their football coach more than they respect the youth pastor. Well, the football coach demands more out of them, you know, kind of a thing. You’re going to, you’re gonna sweat bullets, you’re gonna sweat blood, you’re gonna, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna, you know, in all of this Eat nails. And then the in mu usually in the youth ministry where they’re like begging people to come back. Coach doesn’t beg people to come back. If you don’t come, you’re off the team kind of a thing. So anyways we just, we found that like even the devotionals that we did, you know, to help young people grow in their faith, the tougher they were, the better kids came back and go, this changed my life, this changed my life. But it was like a whole bunch of memory, scripture, memory and things like that. So.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:02):
And so now your ministry is called Generation Next. Yep. And you’re really still focused on reaching the next generation. Right. How have things changed since you started? It seems like in some ways the, the young people today are dealing with even greater challenges than they were 30 years ago.
Ron Luce (04:21):
Well, there’s a lot of challenges and you don’t have to look very far to find them with technology and social media and pornography and all kinds of things. However if you look at data still, most people come to Christ before they’re 20. You know, the, and the closer you can get to 13 years old, the, the, the more likely, you know, we’ve had this, this thought in kind of youth ministry culture that if you get the cool football players saved at 1617, then he’ll influence the youngers. Well, we keep trying, but we don’t reach those guys that are not influencing. And so, but the data shows that the closer you get to 13, the more likely they are to come to Christ. So one thing that’s really beautiful that hasn’t changed is that sort of, that Bar Mitzvah age 12, 13, 14, the openness to the gospel, the openness to Christ.
(05:06):
And so in fact, one of the things we learned as I, I spent several years studying churches around the world, Lord of the most remarkable at reaching and discipling the young generation. And one of the things that I found they have in common is, I found ’em mostly outside of America, was that they really focus on reaching them when they’re 12 to 14, like the, the sweet spot, reach ’em then, and then put ’em on a pathway of growth, of radical growth in their faith for the next seven years. So that they end up at 20, 21 years old. Like they want ’em like you would hope that they would turn out lot, lot like just get ’em saved and hope for the best or get ’em saved and just bring ’em to church. But they actually put them in a rigorous, we call it deep dive disciple making, like they’re really growing intensely and they’re helping other people grow.
(05:53):
So we call it Project 13 and helping churches to adopt these best practices that we found. Because, you know, we, I love big events. I’ve stood in front of millions of kids, but big events are not enough. You have to have a process that the church falls in love with because it’s a life giving process that takes a new follower of Christ in terms of them into a solid believer that’s then multiplying their faith. Most churches kind of would ascent to that. Like yeah, they’ll nod their head, but they don’t know how to, so this is what we learned from these churches, how to, and now we’re just trying to make it simple for churches to adopt it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:27):
Okay. So let me ask you a question as a parent, last week, my son Caleb turned 13 and he’s already been acting congratulations, like a teenager for about six months. Yeah. And now he is a teenager. And so I’ve just been praying, God give me wisdom on how to raise this young man to love God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> what advice would you give me as a parent to, to raise this 13 year old to be close to
Ron Luce (06:56):
Jesus? Well,
(06:58):
First of all, I would encourage you to start right now a, a a a set of like a, a set of practices or a, a habit or almost fo like spiritual folklore where say, Hey, through your teen years, I want to see you become a better follower of Jesus. So at 13 we’re gonna do this, and at 14 we’re gonna do this. At 15 we’re gonna do this. Part of what that can be is taking discipleship tools and going through them together. So you don’t have to sit there, I’m so wise I’ll teach you. But like, hey, let’s go through this book together and then talk about it once a week. What’s the Lord teaching you? What do the Lord speak to your heart? So some of the tools we develop to help churches do this, and parents are using ’em as well, is like there’s a daily quiet time thing.
(07:44):
So they’ll write stuff down, what does this first mean to you? And then at the end of the week, there’s questions that you can discuss some questions. So what that does is it makes it makes first of all use a parent a sign of respect to your young person. Like, Hey, what did the Lord speak to you? What do you think that meant? You know, and you also get ’em in habit, like of having quiet times and talking about it, having quiet times, applying the scripture and talking about it. So if you do it all through their 13 year, and then they’re 14th year and they’re 15, this is part of what we
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:13):
Do. It’s by the time they’re 18, they’re, they’ve love
Ron Luce (08:15):
Jesus. All the fundamentals. They’re don’t just love Jesus, but they’ve developed character in their life and like they’re, they’re hardcore. You’ve memorized scriptures together, you did all, you’ve kind of been on a journey together. So that’s what I really encourage all parents take your kids on a journey with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:30):
That’s awesome. I’ll definitely do that. You also have the Jesus Global Youth Day. Tell me about that.
Ron Luce (08:38):
Well, we did our first one a couple years ago, we had about 50,000 young people come from 30 different nations. And it’s sort of a it was a global event that we signed Mal Casta to like a hundred thousand churches around the world and where they were gathering young people. And it was a kind of a, a stake in the let’s, let’s let a generation stand up for Christ and let the world see. But it also is a way to make the church aware the global church, like we need to, we, the church need to focus on young people and and let them know they’re important. Let them know they’re valued. And help pastors then have tools to go back to their nation, to their city, to their town and reach and disciple the young generation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:21):
What do you see happening in this generation? Are there signs of hope?
Ron Luce (09:28):
Well, of course in the last few weeks we’ve seen this thing at Asbury and some other schools, and I think that can be a sign of hope a beginning of something. I would just encourage people you know, for a long time what we’ve heard is for a strategy reaching the next generation, just pray for another Jesus movement, Jesus revolution. Which is really not a strategy. I mean, it’s, it’s great that it looks like it may be starting to happen, but sometimes people look back at the Jesus movement back in the sixties and seventies and they see it with rose colored glasses. There were a lot of problems too, like a lot of churches didn’t want those young people and a lot of people got saved that didn’t get discipled. So this is the chance for us as a church to go, okay, if this is really the Lord breathing on a generation, let’s lean in and do our part. They’re coming to Christ. Let’s en welcome them in our church. Let’s make sure they’re growing in their faith. They’ve had an encounter with Christ, but an encounter is not enough. They have to have repeated encounters, but they have to grow deep in their faith. And so the discipleship side of this thing, really helping them grow deep in their faith is essential. And so that we don’t have some of the catastrophes that did happen in the Jesus movement in the sixties and seventies.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:38):
I have so much respect for you and just honor you for just giving your life for so many years, for, for young people, if someone’s listening and they want to connect with you and take advantage of your, your resource, I know you’ve written a bunch of books, you have a lot of material. What’s the best way for them to find out more about
Ron Luce (10:56):
You think? You just go to GenerationNext.me, me and you can find out all everything you’d want to know about our resources, discipleship Tools, project 13, Global Youth Day, all kinds of things.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:08):
Well, thank you so much.
Ron Luce (11:11):
Keep up the good work takes all of us doing our part
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:13):
Right. Amen. Thank you.
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John Albiston | Coaching Churches for Growth
John Albiston is a church growth expert who works with the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada. He grew a church from 300 to 1,500 people in a span of five years. The last year he was there he saw seven hundred salvations. Then he was asked to help the one hundred and twenty churches in his district to grow. Today he shares some simple secrets that are guaranteed to lead to church growth.
Learn more about the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada: https://paoc.org/
Connect with John Albiston: https://albiston.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest with me, John Albertson. And you are with the Pentecostal Assemblies here in Canada, and you are a church coach. And so I love coaching, I especially love coaching evangelists, but you’re going into churches, helping churches to grow, helping them to think strategically about how to reach their community. So how did you get started doing that?
John Albiston (00:32):
Well, my story was my last church our church grew from 300 to 1500 people in the span of five years. And the last we were there, we saw over 700 salvations. That’s when I got a phone call from the Pentecostal Assemblies just saying, John, would you like to show other churches how to do that? And I was like, yes, I would love to show other churches how to do that. And that’s when we got started. I got started doing that in 2017. And when we started here in our district, we’ve got about 120 churches. We ran the numbers and we found that only 18% of our churches were growing. 82% of our churches were either plateaued or in decline. We’re happy to say that within a couple of years, by 2019, we had doubled the number of growing churches and doubled the number of annual reported salvations.
(01:26):
So we, our churches weren’t growing because we were trying to convince Baptists to come to our church instead. But no, we were genuinely reaching unchurched people in our community. Now Covid hit that threw our numbers right out the window. But now that we’re coming out of C O V and started re getting our, our bearings, it’s looking like we’ve got pretty close to 50% of our churches growing. And by the end of the year, we think we might be able to get 60% of our churches are growing, accomplishing real great commission salvation growth.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:54):
And so what are some of the things that you are helping churches with when you are encouraging them to reach out to their community?
John Albiston (02:05):
Well, one of the first things is just to understand their own purpose as a church and what they need to do in order to grow by reaching lost people. Because if you want your church to grow, what you need to do is you need to reach people in your community, bring them in, introduce them to Jesus, and then have them stay and learn how to follow him. Now, when I have conversations with pastors, like, are you doing that? Are you reaching people, introducing them to Jesus and then teaching them to follow him? The answer is, oddly enough, no. You know, we’ve been trained in Bible school and seminary, how to run services. You know, I was trained on how to be an ec eal preacher. I wasn’t taught how to speak to non-Christians. I wasn’t taught how to disciple non-Christians. You know, when when someone accepts Jesus their savior, what’s the first five things I’m supposed to teach ’em? I don’t know that that was never a class. So organizing our Church of War, actually accomplishing our mission is just something that most of us as pastors were never trained to do. And before we were too eager to blame our professors. Nobody trained those guys how to do that either. So if we want our churches to grow, that’s what we need to focus on doing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:22):
I think one of the challenges is that everyone who pastors a church has been around churches for a very long time, and so they don’t look through the eyes of a visitor or a first time guest or someone who is seeking spiritual enlightenment, who just wanders into the church. What would you tell a church to help them to make that person feel welcome?
John Albiston (03:52):
Well, I’d tell ’em a few things. One, just the importance of it. As a general rule of thumb, on any given Sunday, 96% of the people in the room are your own people. And it’s so easy and so comfortable just to focus on that. 96%, only 4% of the people in the room are first time visitors. So if I focus on my 96%, I, I know they’re vocabulary, we’re comfortable through vocabulary. When I use churchy vocabulary words, they like it. We all know what
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:23):
The rows of Sharon
John Albiston (04:24):
Is. Oh, that’s right. Like it, it just like home. Feels like home. The problem is 100% of your growth comes from the 4% and just put yourself in in, in their shoes for a second. I mean, it’s a golden rule. Like Jesus teaches us to do this. Say you’re, you know, Larry from across the street you come home from a business trip and your wife is gone. You thought you had a good marriage, but now the house is empty and you realize everything that I’ve believed about the success of my life is falling apart. And all of a sudden God is speaking to them. And if they’re like, you know what? I’m gonna try something crazy. Maybe I can find hope at church. And so I go in my desperation and need for God, I go to the church across the street and what do I hear is a sermon about Calvinism versus Arminianism?
(05:13):
And then I realize, yeah, you know what? It was a really stupid idea to come here. Okay? We we’re not talking to the people who need the gospel the most. We’re not sharing the gospel. Most churches don’t preach the gospel. Yeah, maybe if you’ve been there for a couple years, you’ll pick it up a bit. But we’re just not focusing on our job, on how we reach our community. We’re just focusing on our frozen chosen. And that’s not good for our people either, because quite frankly, they’re gonna be living kind of a weak and limp Christian life. If you’re living the Christian life where I go to a church where people are getting saved all the time, where I can invite my non-Christian friends in and I know they’re gonna have a fantastic time in their encounter. God, that’s very exciting for me. And even if I’m an introvert, it’s easy for me to invite <laugh> somebody, somebody to something I know they’re gonna love. So if I know that you’re a fanatical football fan and I’ve got two tickets to the game, it’s easy for me to invite you cuz I know you’re gonna love it. And when our churches are places where I know when you come, you’re gonna feel welcome. You’re gonna understand what’s gonna go on, and you’re gonna meet Jesus. It’s easy and exciting for me to invite you to that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:35):
And even to create that culture of people inviting their friends, I, I’m amazed as I travel the churches all over North America, every weekend I, I minister in a different place and I walk into a bunch of churches and there’s no signs showing where the children’s ministry is. There’s no sign saying whether the coffee is free or you’re supposed to throw a dollar in the, the cup there, there’s no sign showing where the bathrooms are. Like you can wander around the church for a long time just trying to find the bathroom. And I’m like, this isn’t friendly for visitors. Like, you’re not even thinking about visitors coming to the church.
John Albiston (07:17):
Oh, absolutely. That, that is a major problem. And it’s, again, we’re focusing on the 96%, we’re ignoring the four. And it, it’s such a tragedy of opportunity. So here’s the math of it. 4% of the people in your church on any given Sunday are first time visitors. Next Sunday it’s a different 4%, and next Sunday it’s a different 4% different 4%. And when you add that up over 52 weeks, you get a 200%. So you take the average attendance of your church, say it’s a hundred, over the next 12 months, you’re gonna have 201st time visitors. What would happen to your church if you kept half of them? You know? But we’re losing them because we’re ignoring them. We’re not putting ourself in their shoes. Yeah. That includes signage
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:06):
Or even know where to park. You come into the parking lot and where’s a visitor supposed to park? Or Absolut? Is there even a parking place for them?
John Albiston (08:13):
Absolutely. And when someone comes in, does anybody talk to me? Does anybody engage? Now a lot of our churches will have greeters, you know, who’ll say, hi, welcome. But I’ve, my local Walmart has greeters who say, hi, welcome. When I walk in, and I’ve been going to Walmart for I think 40 years, and in all those years, you know how many Walmart employees have gotten to know my name? Like Zero. Do you know how many friends I’ve ever made at Walmart? Zero. being friendly, whoopie, doof, we can find friendly anywhere. What we can’t find anywhere is friends. And so we need to actually love and care for those people that God are sending us because they’re already coming to our church. They’re coming in droves, people that God is calling them. And it’s hard for them to get here. Like we need to understand their journey.
(09:07):
I’ve, I’ve heard so many stories of people who would tell me that it took them three or four attempts to come to our church because they drive in, they were parked in the parking stall, white knuckling the steering wheel for 20 minutes before driving away in tears because they were too scared to come in the door. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. We don’t know the journey that they’re going through, and when they come in and we just ignore them and we’re blind to them and we don’t care for them. If you come into my church and nobody cares for you, you don’t feel loved. I can be on the stage standing on my head, juggling fire, talking about the love of God, and you will
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:48):
Not believe I’ve tried that before. I’ve tried to juggle fire
John Albiston (09:51):
<Laugh>. You won’t believe me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:53):
Yeah.
John Albiston (09:53):
But if you come in here and you feel welcome and you feel loved and you feel part of the family and like, you’re not getting just like a fake Walmart greeting that No, I feel included. I’ve never been in a place like this. I’ve never met people like, here, what is going on here? And then I talk about the love of God. You are gonna believe me because you’ve already experienced it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:16):
So walk me through the process as you’re coaching a church, what recommendations do you give them for the, for the ushers, for the song service, for the offering time, for the message, for the altar call, for the follow up process. Kinda walk me through what an ideal process would look like for a visitor.
John Albiston (10:40):
So if a church is at that stage that like, hey, they actually wanna reach people, because sometimes I have to deal with stuff like, we don’t care about a lost people <laugh>, so we have to,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:48):
So that’s a theological and a heart issue. That’s
John Albiston (10:50):
Right. So sometimes, you know, when I’m going into coaching church, that’s what we need to do the work. But they’re ought that if they’re at this stage where no, no, we wanna reach our community, what do we do? The fundamental principle is the golden rule. Put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. When I walk in here, do I know what to do when the service starts? Are you speaking in plain English? So just talk about like, choosing lyrics for your songs. There’s a, a song that’s popular in a number of churches called Reckless Love. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it or not, but if you look at the lyrics of that song, 95% of that song’s gonna make sense to anybody in your community. Like, there’s one line about he leaves the 99, okay? They’re not gonna get the reference, but most of that song makes perfect sense. They’re gonna understand what we’re talking about. There’s another song that are, that is popular. Our God is the lion. The lion of Judah. Our God is the lamb. The lamb. Who is slain? Who’s Judah? Well, he’s one of the 12 patriarchs. Why are we singing about him? What’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Patriarch? Well, because
John Albiston (11:50):
The messianic lion goes through the lion of Judah. Why are we talking about lions? Oh, that’s symbolic. It refers to the Davidic kingdom. Who’s kingdom, okay. You see? So David was one of the descendants of Judah. Messianic line not only goes through Judah, but also goes through through David. Now Lamb saying you need not understand the sacrificial system and the Old Testament, how that pre prefigures Christ and Leviticus and the Lan of course, and Nasco logical figure, we’ve seen a book of revelation. Okay? That’s what you need to know for the song to make any sense. Okay? Did we have to make the climb that steep like half the time when people come in to our churches and don’t encounter Christ? It’s not that they rejected what we were saying, they just didn’t even understand what we were saying. It was just confusing. Gobbly good.
(12:28):
Our sermons are no better. And for our churches who actually do attempt to preach the gospel, we’re preaching the gospel in Christianese gobbly book, and they just don’t understand the words that are coming out of our mouth. So the first thing you want your church to have an impact on, people preach and sing with clarity, not to water things down. And we’re not trying to avoid offending people. I mean, we’re not gonna poke people in the eye, but okay, that’s not what we’re focusing on, is inoffensive sermons. We’re focusing on clear sermons that anybody coming in is gonna understand what we’re saying. So when it comes to the gospel, for example, I understand theologically that repentance and faith kind of a big deal when it comes to accepting Christ. But I also know that the people I’m trying to reach have never heard those words and don’t know what they mean.
(13:19):
Now, I know from studying Hebrew that the word repent, that the Hebrew route is make a u-turn. It’s how you give directions. Like go down fourth Street in repent <laugh>. So I will be on the stage walking one direction saying, I’ve been going down my own road. I’ve been the master of my fate captain of my destiny living my life the way I want to. Well, that ends here. Jesus talking about making a U-turn and following him, even when it’s scary, even when I don’t understand, I’m putting my whole life in his hands. Everything that I am, my hopes, my dreams, my sorrows, my shame, you know, my anger, my hurts. I’m putting everything I am in his hands and trusting him to make me to someone new as I follow him in a new life, in a new direction. So I explained both repentance and faith without necessarily using those words.
(14:13):
Okay? That’s a skillset we have to develop because I was raised in a church. Christianese is my mother tongue. I speak English as a second language <laugh>. So are we preaching with clarity? Are we singing with clarity? When you preach, you know, when you, for your own people, when you preach clearly in plain English, guess what your people learn in plain English. Because if I preach in gobbly G your congregation learns it in gobbly G. And then when they go out to the workforce, when they go out to the baseball game, when they go out to anything else, the only thing they know is gobbly go. Why would we be surprised that our people in our congregation are so ineffective at reaching their friends? But if we preach in plain English and explain the gospel in plain English, we’re equipping our people in plain English to reach their friends and neighbors in plain English.
(15:08):
So you wanna make the biggest difference in your congregation in being able to reach newcomers and actually seeing your own people be more effective at evangelism and discipleship. Learn how to speak in plain, ordinary English. It’s a discipline. It’s hard. People don’t know what discernment means. You, if you have to use the word, take 10 seconds, explain it to explain it. Don’t make a casual reference. Hey, just like Joseph, you know, okay, who’s Joseph? Okay, take 10 seconds to explain, give people on-ramps to what you’re talking about. And that is probably gonna make the biggest difference.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:47):
What about the follow up process for that 4%? How do we close the back door so they don’t just come in and leave, but we can retain some of the 4% that are visiting every Sunday? Well, I think
John Albiston (15:59):
The key is gonna be developing relationships of friendship. So sometimes you know, I talk about, you know, we, in order to have someone follow Jesus, they need to make f make friends with us. Because if you read your gospels, Jesus discipled the disciples within the context of relationship. So when someone say they, they raised that hand When I made that gospel call, I’ve already trained my ushers, they’re already at the back. Everybody else’s head is bowed, eyes are close, not my ushers <laugh>. They’re already at the back and they see who raised their hands, and they’ve already been trained to come up and approach them after the service. Introduce ’em. Hey, my name’s Tom, da da da, da, how you doing? Da da da da da. You know, how long have you been coming here? Da Hey, I would really like to introduce you to my pastor.
(16:47):
Is that okay now? Because I saw their hands, like when they’re my ushers, bring somebody to me. I know this is a new believer. Well then I can have a conversation with them. I can give them a new believer’s Bible and say, Hey, you know what? We’ve got this small group program called Alpha, it’s a free meal. Why don’t you come out? It’s a fantastic way to, you know, to get started. But we want to get them in relationship as fast as possible. So follow up is crucial, crucial, crucial. And we want to connect with them as soon as we, we possibly can. We don’t wanna let that get cold. And again, it comes down to the, the whole love of God experience. If they don’t f experience the love of God from us, they’re not gonna believe in the love of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:35):
Let’s talk about the, the Canadian context here. Most of the churches that you’re, you’re working with here are in Canada. Is there anything unique to Canada that might be different than say the United States or other? Or are these principles, do they work everywhere?
John Albiston (17:52):
So I’ve used these principles in, in other countries and like, like Canada, the United States are fairly culturally adjacent. So if you’re an American coming to Canada, like the least foreign country you could possibly visit is this one. And vice versa. But I’ve seen this work very effectively in Thailand, which is a completely different culture. And that’s because we’re talking about some basic human principles. People need to be known. People need to experience love, people need to experience acceptance. And none of us feel that way when we’re being ignored. So we wanna be certainly culturally sensitive. So if you’re going to Thailand and you’ve got a habit of touching people’s heads, don’t do that in Thailand. That’s considered very rude. Mind you, seriously, dude, that’s weird here too. <Laugh>, you know, but you know, sometimes our own, we have got
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:49):
Little, let’s bring all the visitors up and I’m gonna pray for you right now.
John Albiston (18:53):
<Laugh>, sometimes in our church we develop weird microcultures. Like I remember my, my last church if you were sick, the only way to heal you was to bring you out to the front of the service in front of everybody. We would hit you in the head to try to make you fall over. And that’s how healing happens. Is there anything in the Bible says we have to do it that way? No. And we kind of realized, you know what? That’s actually kind of weird. And people coming in here are kind of terrified by what we’re doing. Maybe we should find like non terrifying ways of doing things. So there’s ways where we can think about, well, things happen in context. So you look at the Apostle Paul apostle Paul said, I am all things to all people. So by all possible means, some might be saved to the Greeks, unlike a Greek to the Jews unlike a Jew.
(19:42):
Well, that wasn’t just words for Paul. If you look at the book of Acts on how he behaves, when Paul’s in a Jewish setting, man, he turns into super Jew, Hey, I’m a Pharisee and you know, I studied on a gamma meal and he’s quoting the Old Testament left, right and center. Like, I mean, he, he puts it on really thick with the Jewish stuff. But when he is talking to a Gentile lobby audience, he doesn’t talk about any of that. In fact at Mars Hill, he starts quoting their poets and using their cultural references to bring them to Jesus. So he adjusts the way he talks depending on who he’s talking to. And I mean, we understand this when it comes to age group. You know, I’m not gonna talk about substitutionary atonement when I’m talking to preschoolers. Okay? So we, we’ve got some kind of understanding of that. Well, we need to know who we’re talking to and then adjust our vocabulary and how we explain and how we act compared to who we’re talking to.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:37):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If someone has some questions about how their church can be more effective at reaching their community, what’s a good way to get in touch with you? What, what’s, what’s your email?
John Albiston (20:50):
They can reach me@justjohnalbertin.com. My last name is A L B I S T O n.com. And there’s some free resources on there, but yeah, anybody can get in touch with me and I am more than happy to help.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:05):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much and I love what you’re doing. I, I love coaching evangelists and people who are excited about reaching the lost, and I think so many churches need to have that heart for their community and, and, and for the lost, and, and not just talk about it, but take tangible steps to make it happen.
John Albiston (21:28):
Absolutely.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:28):
And so, just so much love what you do and so valuable.
John Albiston (21:32):
Well, thanks for having me on here. Thank you.
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Chris Busch | How to Evangelize Through Media
Chris Busch leads LightQuest Media which specializes in media buying and advertising. Today we talk about how a media agency can help a ministry to reach people for Jesus. As a special bonus, Chris Busch shares some miracle testimonies from the life of Kathryn Kuhlman and insights from the ministry of Oral Roberts.
Check out the Light Quest Media website: https://www.lightquestmedia.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Chris Bush is the leader of light quests media, which specializes in media buying and advertising. Today we talk about how a media agency can help a ministry to reach people for Jesus. As a special bonus, Chris Bush shares some miracle testimonies from the life of Kathryn Kuhlman and insights from the ministry of Oral Roberts.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:37):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Chris Bush. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Chris Busch (01:12):
You’re welcome, Daniel. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
And so you are leading a media agency called Light Quests Media. Can you tell me what does a media agency do for ministries? Sure.
Chris Busch (01:30):
A media agency they could do a number of things. What we do is we help people multiply their message through media, and that can be through broadcast television and radio. That can be through print books, magazines, et cetera. Or that can be through the internet, which has opened up a whole new realm of possibilities for, for people to multiply through media.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:52):
And so how did you get started doing all of this work in media?
Chris Busch (01:57):
Oh, man. So I like to think that my start in media was when I was around four or five years old and a guy named Earl Roberts would come on our black and white Zenith television at home. And I would see him on Sunday mornings, and I would just spellbound not only by his preaching, but when he would pray for the sick and people would get healed and you’d see it right there, you know, on, on television. And I had little idea that later I would actually wind up a student at Oral Roberts University, and then after my student years working for Oral Roberts University and being involved in their, their television production to some extent. So that’s kind of how I got my, my start in media was largely through through Oral Roberts who was a, you know, he, he was one of the, the people that was on in the 1950s actually, that back in the day when there were three TV stations, you know, if you had a television, you had nbc, cbs, and abc, you had three choices of channels to watch and or was there on Sunday morning on one of those channels.
(02:58):
And so he became well known and very popular through television in the day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:03):
And or Roberts was very innovative in his use of media. He absolutely, he was one of the first ones to go on television. He was the, the first to have a, a national show. And it’s amazing how many people used to watch, or Roberts
Chris Busch (03:20):
Yeah. Used to be in the millions. And so when I was a student there, he, he, first, he started out on Sunday mornings, but then he started doing primetime specials, four primetime specials a year in in the evenings, which he would syndicate across the country, one hour specials. And he would have special guests stars on to kind of attract an audience, but then he would always give a, a sermon, you know, a 10 to 12 minute sermon that was embedded in the program. And that’s how he reached people. After I graduated from o u I worked at the Evangelistic Association, oral Roberts Evangelistic Association for a while. And it was not uncommon that the, the Monday after one of those specials would air, we would get over 100,000 pieces of mail.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:01):
Wow.
Chris Busch (04:02):
This was in the seventies.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:04):
Yeah. That’s amazing.
Chris Busch (04:06):
So it was amazing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:07):
Now, the media landscape has changed a lot in the last few years. It’s actually a much lower bar for entering media, which, which is actually wonderful. Like even right here, I’ve got a little studio set up right here in my home. And to do this 15, 20 years ago would’ve cost a lot of money. Now you can do it pretty inexpensively and you can use media to reach people. And then you used oral use to have to buy television time to go on television all over the, the United States. But now someone can film a video on TikTok and instantly get millions of views if it goes viral and, and it doesn’t cost anything. Oh, yeah.
Chris Busch (04:56):
The whole landscape has changed. Back when I worked for Oral A, a single camera cost over a hundred thousand dollars. Wow. That was in dollars of those days. So equivalent today would probably be, you know, $300,000 for a camera, a studio quality camera. So today, you know, the cost of production of come down, and then with the internet, and especially now with broadband being as fast as it is where you can transmit video very, very efficiently over the internet, the, the the bar as you say has, has really been lowered for people to be able to get into media. And so it’s, it’s really, it’s the, the shifts in media. We, we like to say that mass media has lost its mass because it used to be media was controlled by a few giant corporations, and they kind of decided what everybody got to see.
(05:42):
And now as, as the bar has been lowered, and more and more people have gotten into it, people can choose what they want to see. And and somebody who has a message and wants to get that message out, the ability to do that now, the, the financial bar to get over is not nearly as steep as it was back in the, in the day. So it’s an exciting time. I mean, media has, everything has changed rapidly with technology. Media has probably changed faster than anything. And I think it’s the most exciting time to be involved in media, in the history of media, perhaps in the history of history. I don’t know.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:16):
Yeah. And, and so what has your organization done to adapt to the change and help ministries to, to reach people for Jew? Because I think ultimately the goal of a very evangelist is to lead more people to Jesus. Yes. Whether it’s through television or TikTok or through doing Facebook posts, I mean, people as evangelists, we want to lead people to, to Jesus. And so what have you done to, to help ministries, and then how have you adapted to the changing times?
Chris Busch (06:47):
No, as you know, as an O R U grad one of oral’s premises was going into every person’s world. And so media just provides us with that ability to really, truly go into every person’s world without having to physically be there and in their presence in, in order to do that. So what we’ve done, we, we really started out more as a traditional media agency broadcast. So tell
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:11):
Us what, what would a traditional media
Chris Busch (07:13):
Yeah, traditional media, legacy media would be more like television, radio you know, broadcasting what we call linear television. Linear television is where you have a set schedule and you had to tune in at that time on that channel, or you missed it. Then DVRs came along in that loud time shifted viewing so people could actually record your show. And we find that, that for a lot of our clients that are on television, as much as 15% of their viewership is, is DVR people that are recording it and watching it their own time. And that’s really what’s shifted is the, the, the power as it were of media has shifted to the viewer as opposed to the broadcaster. The viewer has a lot more control now over what they watch when they wanna watch it. So the legacy media, television, radio is still alive.
(08:05):
It’s still reaching people, but so many other options have come along in the world of media, especially with the internet and the, and the large availability of, of, of broadband now. And I didn’t quite believe that as many people would be watching video on their telephones when smartphones came out, you know, some years back, I thought, that’s a little bit of a stretch that somebody’s gonna go from watching on a big screen like this to this thing. But it’s amazing how people have adapted, and especially the younger generation and, you know, now they can watch what they want when they want, and it’s right there in their hand and they’ve got the earbuds in. And that’s the new face of, of media.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:47):
And now people call Generation Z digital natives. They were born with a cell phone in their hand almost. Right. And they, it is part of their life. They watch all kinds of content, and it’s much shorter, where oral, I think did hour long po broadcast. Yeah. And now you bring it down to about 30 seconds, which means, yeah, you have to really shorten your message, but then you can put out a lot of right short, 30 seconds short content
Chris Busch (09:18):
And reels and things like that. Yeah. Short, short content, whether it’s YouTube TikTok, whatever. Those have gotten to be super popular. And what we find is that people who are able to produce some of that, in fact, a lot of times people will take, you know, a pastor will take his sermon and have somebody go through it, and they can find those little, you know, clips of, of 30 to 60 seconds or something that they can put up his shorts and then have links to the full message. And so it gives you a chance to begin to develop a relationship with somebody through those short messages. And then you always want to have the ability for them to go beyond that. You don’t wanna just stop there. You know, you want to have links for them to follow with from that short message. If you like this, there’s more, you know, you can hear more here. And, and you can kind of grow the, the interest and grow the relationship that way.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:10):
Now you represent a variety of different ministries. Some very large ministries. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, w w what are you advising them to do and and how are you helping them right now?
Chris Busch (10:22):
Well, we’re advi well, Jesus said go into all the world, right? Yeah. And oral said, go into every person’s world. So our thing is that okay, just every available platform that you can be on and afford to be on, try to be on there, you know, with, with your message. So everything from, from the the big tech platforms, you know, like Facebook, YouTube, and that we also are cautioning our clients not to, not to depend on those platforms being there tomorrow. That ultimately you wanna really have your own website, your own app, and you wanna develop a relationship with people where they can get to your content without having to go through an intermediary like, like Facebook or YouTube. Because the reality is, is is that someday Facebook or YouTube could pull the plug on religious programming.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:15):
Very, yeah. And I, I know that some ministries are very curtailed in what they can say on TikTok, for example. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, there are some of my friends are on there and they’ll get thousands of views, but then if they talk about a certain subject, suddenly it drops to zero views. They, they can push a button shadow completely turn you off, and basically controlling the message of what can be said, which is very dangerous from a, a free speech viewpoint. Yeah. But as Christians, we have to be wise in how we talk to people, how we communicate, and, and then we can grab people, hook them, and then bring them over to our website where you said we can have, right? Yeah. Bring additional content to help bring them,
Chris Busch (12:02):
Bring them up to your platform, you know, where, where you can, and then, you know, where they can sign up for an email list. Because you really want to, if you have that person’s email, that’s so much more valuable in terms of the relationship than just having that connection through a social media platform. Because like I said, it could, it could disappear. The message could get suppressed. You could get blocked. You know, we, we know all the stories that are coming out now since Elon Musk bought Twitter, you know, all the stories that are coming out. Or
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:32):
Even the FBI was trying to block some of the messages.
Chris Busch (12:34):
Yeah, yeah. And, and so but the thing is, people are there, it’s like the public square in a way, you know, that you know, Paul went up Mars Hill and there were all these people and he just stood up and began to, to preach there. Well, that’s kind of where, where our people now, well, they’re, you know, they’re Facebook, their Twitter, their TikTok their YouTube, you know, all these different platforms. I mean, YouTube is the number two search engine. And people don’t realize that. Cause they think Google Yeah, Google’s number one, well, what’s number two? Well, is it Bing? Is it duck, duck Go? No, it’s YouTube is the number two search engine in the world. So that just massive amounts of people there. So, so what we recommend to clients is, is you’ve gotta be where the people are, and you’ve gotta make, you know, contact there.
(13:18):
And you’ve gotta have it’s gotta be good content. You know, it’s gotta be well done. It’s gotta be, be well produced. People have become more sophisticated about media. So the quality of the video, the quality of the audio needs to be good. Now, it doesn’t need to be perfect especially if you’re shooting something that’s this kind of live type of thing and you’re using a phone or something, people will give you grace for something like that. But if if they, if the audio is bad, or if the video is just, you know, hard to watch, people are sophisticated one or two, three seconds, you know, and they’re gonna to be onto something else. So you’ve gotta be sure that you put the message out there with, with enough quality so that, that the lack of quality won’t drive somebody away.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:04):
So if someone’s listening and they have a, a small to to medium size ministry, and they came to you and, and said, I need some help with my media, what are some of the things that, that light Quests would do to, to help a, a, a ministry like that? What advice would you give them? Or, or how can you help them out? Well, first
Chris Busch (14:26):
Thing we wanna do is understand what they’re calling is and, and what it is they’re trying to do and, and what, what their purpose, what their mission is. And then we try to, to work within that. I mean, we don’t have like a cookie cutter thing where, okay, here’s what everybody else does, and so therefore you should do this. So it’s really important to understand somebody’s mission, who they’re trying to reach. For instance, we have a, we have a number of clients who really focus more on the United States as their mission field. We have other clients who do, who are in the United States that don’t do any media in the United States. They spend all of their media budget in, in certain foreign countries. And, and they may even have a particular country that they feel a calling toward. You know, we’re where things are focused.
(15:11):
So understanding that type of thing, understanding the, the, the mission and the calling is really important. And then it’s just a matter of developing a strategy. And this is where I also see, whether it’s in ministry, business, whatever, a lot of times people can be a little bit helter skelter and, well, let’s try this, let’s try this. You know, it’s really important, I think, to have a strategy. And that strategy can and will change over time. We’ve seen how technology, you know, advancements in technology, you better change your strategy as technology advances. But you still need a strategy. You still need to, to kind of an idea, okay, we’re doing this, we’re doing it for this reason, and be very purposeful and intentional about it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:52):
And so you really help people to develop that strategy Yes. And then to implement it. Right. That’s extremely valuable. So if someone’s listening and they want to find out more about you and, and what you, you do, what’s your website? How’s
Chris Busch (16:06):
They Our, our website is light quest media.com. So L i G H T Q U E S T M E D I a, <laugh> like quest media.com.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:15):
Yeah. So if you’re interested in finding out more about media and how to be effective at reaching people and encourage you to, to reach out to Chris Bush and like Quest Media and they’ll be able to help you out. And earlier we were talking a little bit about Kathryn Kuhlman. You, you went to her church when you were young. Yes, she was. And you were telling me after growing up a story about how you saw some miracles happen through her ministry. Can you tell us about that?
Chris Busch (16:42):
Well, I had there were a couple of ’em. One, a friend of mine that I grew up with in, in the ministry there, he was born with club feet and his feet were like, just turned almost completely upside down. And my parents were there. They saw his mother bring him to one of Kathryn Kuhlman’s services and they saw his feet and how deformed they were. And then she prayed for him during that service, and his feet became to totally normal. And they saw him afterwards. And I grew up with the guy and, you know, his feet, I’m not saying mine or normal, but his words normal as mine. Anyway, <laugh>. And then another time, my dad had had a really bad back injury from work, and he, we did not think we would be able to even go to church. Cause we drove 40 miles from New Brighton, Pennsylvania to Youngstown, Ohio for Kathryn Kuhlman’s Sunday services.
(17:26):
And so we did, just figured we wouldn’t be going, cuz dad couldn’t. And he wanted to go. He was determined to go. So my, my brother who’s 12 and a half months older than I, we, we helped him get up off the couch and, and get, you know, into the car. And he, he was stubborn German, you know, so he was gonna drive, and he got there and he was standing at the back of the auditorium. And he was one of Katherine Kuhlman’s ushers. And so somebody had told her, you know, that he had been injured. And at one point during the service, she called him to come forward, she says, is Al Busch here? And from the back, my brother and I were sitting down on the first couple of rows with what was called junior ushers. And, and we could hear from the back.
(18:04):
He goes, yes. And she said, come down here. And he came down the aisle right to the side of where we were sitting. And when he got to about the first couple rows, she said, stop. And he stopped and she said bend over and touch your toes. Well, I mean, we knew that he could maybe bend a little bit, you know, maybe 10 or 15 degrees. And that was about it. And he put his two hands up in the air and bent down, touched his toes, and was immediately healed and had no back issues from that day. He went to the doctor the next day, and the doctor, he walked in and the doctor said, what happened to you? And dad told him, you know, and the doctor was kind of skeptical and all of that, but he said, well, he said, you don’t need me anymore.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:48):
Well, what a wonderful story about what God did through Kathryn Kuhlman. What a great woman of God she was. And then you went to Oral Roberts University, and right as you graduated, oral hired you mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And you, you advanced very rapidly by the age of 26, you were a vice president at, at oru, which is pretty amazing. What was it like being around Oral Roberts? What made him effective as an evangelist?
Chris Busch (19:16):
I think what made oral so effective was that he was determined to obey God. And if he believed that God called him to do a certain thing, he was gonna do it. And we were all gonna help him do it. You know, and, and that was the thing there. He would, he was open to hear other people’s opinions and everything, but when the decision got made, then it’s like, okay, we’re all, we’re all pulling the same sled here and we’re all pulling in the same direction. And so he was really a great inspirational leader in that way. He had a great vision you know, for back when he had the healing ministry and the tents, and then to carry that forward into the university and for the Holy Spirit and healing and, and the whole Pentecostal experience as it were, to be a part of a university. You have to remember, oral came out of a, of a Pentecostal background. It was very anti-education. They believed after high school you could go to Bible school and that was okay, but don’t, you know, don’t go to university or a college or something like that because they’ll corrupt you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:24):
Well, he started a college, so I know somehow
Chris Busch (20:27):
He, he was amazing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:28):
He got over that. He got over. But thank God he did, because O R U is such a huge blessing to so many people.
Chris Busch (20:33):
And he did it, you know, coming out of a background, it would say he, he would be a very unlikely person to do it. And, and actually had to fight the leaders of his denomination, you know, who really wanted him to make it a Bible school. And he said, no, God’s called me to build a university where the students will go into every man’s world. And so yeah, he was an, an amazing visionary. And like I said, if, if once he knew that God had told him to do something, that that was it. You know, and he was, he was gonna do it, and he was gonna fight and, and overcome whatever it took to do that and stand. So we can look back on some of those people like Oral Roberts, like Kathryn Kuhlman and others, and, and look at their examples and, you know, they weren’t perfect people and we’re not perfect. And, but look at the impact that they had because they were obedient to the calling that God put on their lives. And they just said yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:31):
Right toward the end of a Robert’s life, I got to go to his house out in California, and I was very young, and I asked him for his advice for me as a young minister. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And he said, Daniel, obey guy. There you go. And so now anytime someone asks me for advice, I just tell ’em, obey God. Yes. You can’t go wrong doing that. No.
Chris Busch (21:52):
No. And, and I think what, what a great thing to have is your life’s legacy. You know, that he obeyed God. And what else could we, you know, what we’re looking for is that when we stand before Jesus, you know, we get that well done, good and faithful servant. And I am just absolutely convinced Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts people like that, that, that walked a walk, you know, through their whole life of, of being obedient to God in spite of flaws, in spite of mistakes and everything else, that when they arrived, you know, that’s what they were greeted with. Well done. Good and faithful servant.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:30):
Amen. Well, I pray that all of us would Yes. Hear the same thing well done. Good and faithful servant. That’s our goal. Amen. Well, Mr. Chris, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. Awesome. I appreciate it.
Chris Busch (22:43):
Be great to be with you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (22:44):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give anar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (25:07):
For more information about how to share your faith, or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Roman Nechay | Youth Crusades in Africa & Asia
In the past year, Roman Nechay spoke over 1,000 times to over 300,000 people and prayed with over 200,000 people to receive Christ in seven different nations. On today’s podcast he shares one of the messages that he uses at Youth Crusades to capture the attention of young people, to present the Gospel, and to lead them to Jesus.
Visit Roman Nechay online: https://www.romannechay.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
In the past year, Roman Nache spoke over 1000 times to over 300,000 people and prayed with over 200,000 people to receive Christ in seven different nations. On today’s podcast, he shares one of the messages that he uses at Youth Crusades to capture the attention of young people to present the gospel and to lead them to Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:37):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
To the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. Have a very special guest with me, Roman Nche. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Roman Nechay (01:12):
Thank you so much, Daniel. I’m glad to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
So you were a student at Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp, and I was one of the teachers, and then we were together over in Tanzania, and you came to me and said, is there anything that I could do to serve King Ministries? And a few months later you came over here and you spent several days with me just helping me to edit the videos for my School of Apologetics. And you put a lot of work into that. And now thousands and thousands of atheists have watched those videos and many of them have made very negative comments. They have said that this Daniel King guy is an idiot. He doesn’t know what he is talking about, but the amazing thing is that they’re listening to the gospel from those videos that you edited. So thank you for doing that.
Roman Nechay (02:06):
My pleasure. I’m just glad to be that part of that experience. And man, this is amazing that what you’re doing is you’re bringing the light of Jesus Christ to the atheist. Not everybody can do that, and not everybody is able, like, capable of bringing the gospel that way. So thank you so much Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:21):
And so last time that you were here, you were just about ready to go on an adventure to go to different nations around the world and do youth crusades. And now here we are, we’re a year later, and I want to get a report. What has God been doing?
Roman Nechay (02:40):
Amen. So last year around in the beginning of the year, around January 2nd, I left out to Rwanda. And Rwanda. We got to preach there for about two two months, and we saw many amazing things happen. So we mostly focused on youth and teenagers. And I remember just one instance where we were in a church and we got to preach on a Sunday morning to about a thousand youth. And then we started taking testimonies. And one gentleman, he came out and he testified that his shortsightedness was healed and in front of all, all his friends, I wanted to check that if, if it was true or not. So I took my Bible, I flipped it open, and I asked him, if before when you had the shortsightedness, would you be able to see this far out? And he said, no, I wouldn’t. And I said, okay, let’s test out your vision.
(03:32):
Now what does it say? And he read exactly from the Bible at a distance where he couldn’t do it before and the whole crowd exploded. They just started shouting and praising the Lord because they saw what Jesus has done. And his, his life was a miracle. So his eyes were completely restored and Jesus had done that. And of course there’s many other instances, for example, where in Rwanda there’s a gentleman who he was he was of a different religion, but afterwards he experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit so strongly that you can see in her his eyes, he was almost tearing up. He was saying, wow, I felt the power of God. I felt something on the inside of me. And now I’m a different, a different man. I’m a different person today because of what Jesus has done for me. And there was so many other miracles. It was an amazing time, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:21):
Well, Jesus is wonderful, and Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever the same Jesus that healed people 2000 years ago can heal people in Rwanda. And so you were part of a Christ for all nations team there in Rwanda doing youth crusades. And I heard phenomenal reports about what God had done. And, and, and so what were some of the results? How many people did the team minister to during the ministry there in Rwanda?
Roman Nechay (04:49):
So collectively in the year 2022, Christ for all nations has seen over 1 million decisions for Christ in the, in the country of Rwanda. We literally hit so many people. I mean, Daniel Rwanda itself has about 12 million population where we hit over a million and a half population and over a million decisions for Christ. We hit one 10th of that country for Jesus Christ. So that was a phenomenal just feat with all the evangelists. And of course, it wasn’t just me on the ground and just people. There was, I think, you know, 20, 30, 40 evangelists that came and went in just that period of three months in the beginning of the year and the last two weeks in December.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:30):
What a great victory. I mean, one outta every 10 to actually pray a prayer of salvation and come to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I I pray that we would see revivals like that happen in nations all over the world. Okay, so you were in Rwanda, but you also got to visit some other places. Where where else did you go?
Roman Nechay (05:51):
So total of seven Nations in 2022. So Rwanda, Uganda, Ivory Coast, Ghana, and then I hopped over to Asia in the middle of the year when I got to minister in south country of Bangladesh. So, and then I got to minister in Thailand and Cambodia. So all of those countries I got to visit last year. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:11):
Let’s talk a little bit about Asia versus Africa. The cultures are very different and the people are very different. In Africa, I think you can go and all the kids will run up to you and they will scream and they’re super excited. And then in Asia they might be more reserved and sit very quietly. What, what were some of the, the differences that you saw in administering in Asia versus Africa?
Roman Nechay (06:38):
Man, definitely what you’re saying is the children in Asia are so much more reserved than compared to Africa. I mean, in Africa, let’s say, especially in West Africa, would just walk through, you know, the town and kids are screaming, they’re touch, trying to touch you, they’re trying to, you know, like touch your skin and all these kids are all around you. In Asia, they’re a little bit more shy, so they just wanna first see, okay, who is this foreigner? What are, what are they doing here? And so on. And some of the culture differences, as I told you earlier, you know, in Thailand it’s not good to touch somebody’s head like that’s, that’s wrong, that’s disrespectful. And I remember one of our evangelist friends came from Russia. He’s just laying hands on these kids as in Africa, and he didn’t know this. And so we had to, we had to tell him, Hey, like we can’t lay hands and just, and kids and expect, so that’s kind of rude. So we had to explain that to them and we were learning so much on the way, like in, in Asia, just about the culture and everything. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:36):
So after this, this full year of ministry, I know that you kept careful track of all the people that you ministered to and the people that prayed with you for salvation. Give me the final numbers and statistics from the, the full year of ministry that you got to do.
Roman Nechay (07:50):
Yeah, so I got to preach over 1000 times in the whole year of 2022. I got to see over 300,000 youth face-to-face that I got to speak to about Christ with. And then over 200,000 decisions for Christ in one year of ministry. So praise God for that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:09):
What an amazing victory just to have the opportunity to, to preach a thousand times. I mean, I, if you think about a, a pastor preaching once every Sunday morning, once every Wednesday night, you know, that would be a hundred times in a year. He would have to go 10 years to preach a thousand times. And here you got to go, you preached over a thousand times. So you basically got 10 years of experience stuffed into one year. And then to have the opportunity to speak to so many people and to see so many people give their lives to Jesus. I mean, there’s some ministries that they may see a few hundred people come to Jesus in a year, and you had over 200,000. So I would say this is a, a major victory. What a tremendous opportunity that, that God gave you. And I I really celebrate with you the harvest and thank you. And it’s, it’s neat seeing you this time versus last time we were together because last time you, you had big vision and he, I feel like God’s calling me to do this and I want to do that. Well, now you come back as an experienced, a very mature minister because now you’ve gone and done it. It’s not just talk in rhetoric. You know what it takes to actually lead thousands of people to Jesus.
Roman Nechay (09:33):
Amen. And what’s also wonderful, Daniel, is not that these people just heard the gospel, but they’re actually being discipled in the process. So a few weeks ago I got a report that in Thailand, they’re out there again visiting these same places where we preached the gospel and they’re bringing, they brought the, the Christmas story to the children. So for example, they would show the video of Jesus being born and coming into this earth, dying and raising from the dead. They, they’re talking, you know, they’re preaching to them, they’re showing videos, they’re playing games with them. So, and also same thing in Uganda. There’s many people, or there’s, there’s some pastors and leaders that are visiting these places. They’re doing bible study with them. I got pictures of kids, you know, open with the Bible open studying the word of God. And so this is not just us preaching one time and leaving forever, but there’s people who are following up with these children, that these children get to grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and they get to be mature Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:28):
Wow. What a tremendous blessing that is. And so Roman, let’s imagine that you’re in Rwanda, you are doing a youth crusade, and in front of you it are thousands maybe a a thousand or 1500 young people, and you have the opportunity to present the gospel to them. What does that sound like? Are you there with a suit and a tie? You have your you know you’re starting in Leviticus. What, what, what, what do you tell these kids to capture their attention and, and present the gospel to them?
Roman Nechay (11:04):
Well, first of all we try to have the African attire or wherever we are. If it’s the Asian culture, we try to have the Asian attire. So we try to be very presentable. And you know, we try to match what, what they’re wearing. That’s one thing. And another thing, before I even start preaching, you know there’s different stories or d there’s different ways that we present the gospel depends. The, the instance, it depends on the age, it depends on the, on the place where we’re preaching at. But this is how something would go. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:32):
So, so why are you using stories to communicate to young people?
Roman Nechay (11:38):
Well, I mean, Jesus used parables all the time. Jesus used the parables of the, of the, of the sower, going out to sow the seed. Jesus always communicated with parables because we can imagine these things, and then we connect these stories into the gospel because that’s way Jesus did it. And again, the gospel is an illustration. Jesus, he died on the cross. Jesus rose from the dead. We see that mentally. We can imagine that. And then we communicate that into our own lives. So this is why we use stories. Another reason why we use stories is because that grabs the tension of the children. You know, we don’t want to just rebuke them and say, you must repent and you must believe the gospel. They don’t understand that. So to grasp their attention, we use stories in the beginning. So they, they’re interested, they maybe they laugh a little bit, and then all of a sudden we go into the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:26):
That’s awesome. Alright, well give us a story. How are you presenting the gospel to this group of young people?
Roman Nechay (12:32):
Once upon a time, there’s this one little boy, he’s walking down the street and all of a sudden he gets this idea, he wants to build a small toy wooden boat. And so he goes to the shop and he, all of a sudden he starts building this boat, and he built it, and it was so beautiful, and he decided to go and take it out for a test. So he ran down to the river, he put this boat into the river, and this boat sailed perfectly. The boy’s so happy, he’s so rejoicing, but suddenly there’s this windstorm that just blows in out of nowhere, and it takes his boat far, far away from the boy. And the boat gets lost. And the boy became so sad, he started crying. But the next day, the boy is walking through the town and all of a sudden the boy spots his own boat in the window of a shop.
(13:17):
The boy, he runs into the shop and says to the shopkeeper, shopkeeper, that’s my boat. I made it. But the shop co keeper says, little boy, somebody gave me that boat yesterday. If you want the boat, you must buy back from me. So the boy, he was determined to buy back the boat. The boy ran back home and he worked hard for three days. He helped his parents, he washed windows, he cleaned the toilets, he did everything possible to get enough money to buy that boat back. So the boy ran back to the store, and the boy paid for the boat and ran out with the boat. So happy. Then suddenly the boy lifted the boat behind the air and said, little boat, little boat. You are twice mine. First I made you, and second I bought you back. And this story relates to the gospel.
(14:01):
We are like the boat, and God is like the boy. God created us in his image and likeness. God put us here on this earth for a reason. God made us. But then suddenly we, because of sin, were separated from God. We all disobeyed God. And we fell short of the glory of God, meaning that we were not perfect and we made mistakes in our life. But then God, he liked the boy, purchased us by sending his son Jesus Christ into this world to pay for our sin. Jesus, he died on the cross. Jesus paid with his own blood. Jesus didn’t pay with gold or silver or with money or with dollars. Jesus paid with his blood dying on the cross for us. So he substituted that, that sin in our place. And then Jesus overcame death. Jesus overcame sin, and Jesus rose from the dead. And today is alive. And I have the kids repeat, say, Jesus is alive, and they say, Jesus is alive.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:55):
Jesus is
Roman Nechay (14:56):
Alive. Amen. And Jesus is the only way to God. So what we must do is we must turn from our shameful acts, from our sins, and we must, must turn to the honor and honor of Jesus. We must turn to Christ himself. And we must say no to all our sins if we lie, cheated, stolen, if we dishonor parents or our friends, if we, if we fo if we’re angry, we must turn away from all those things and follow Jesus with our whole heart. And then we’ll be saved. So then I tell all the children, close your eyes. This is a holy moment. Now you get to make a choice. Your parents, your teachers, your siblings, your relatives, they can’t make this choice for you, only. You must make this choice. And so right now, Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart, and only you can open the door to Jesus.
(15:40):
If you want to repent and turn from your sins and turn to Christ, raise your hand. If you want to give all of your life to Jesus right now, raise your hand. And so these kids all over the place, they start raising their hands with their eyes closed. And then we pray the prayer of salvation. Dear Jesus, I give you my life. Jesus, I turn from sin. Jesus, I turn to you, Jesus. Save me from my sin right now and fill me with your joy and fill me with the Holy Spirit in Jesus name. Amen. And afterwards, they, they say, amen. We say, we wanna celebrate and sing a song with you. And so we dance to this song called One Way Jesus. And they’re in Africa and Asia. They love to dance. And so we worship together with them. And afterwards we encourage them by saying this. Now you made a decision to follow Christ. Please read and re read the Bible every single day. Pray and join a local church so you can grow in the things of God and, and you can grow in your relationship with Jesus. So that’s about how it goes. Just a simple message. It’s all about Jesus. And we bring him to that decision where they get to make a decision to follow Christ themselves.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:43):
I love how sharp your message is. It goes right to the heart of the matter. You’re not wasting time in rabbit trails that don’t matter to the gospel, but you’re telling the story, presenting the gospel, and bringing kids to the point of decision. What a tremendous ministry in, in Roman, I’m, I’m so proud of what you’ve done this, this past year. You have been out there giving your life for the sake of the gospel. And God has given you a, a great reward of, of many souls that have come into the kingdom of God. And so it’s just so exciting to see what God is, is doing through you. So thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If someone wants to get in touch with you or find out more about your ministry, how can they connect with you on, on social media or on the internet?
Roman Nechay (17:37):
So I have a website, roman nache.com, R o m a n n e c h A y.com. Or they can find me on Instagram, evangelist dot roman, or Facebook, also evangelist Roman Nache. Whatever you do, please reach out to me. I’d love to get more in touch with you and just connect with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:55):
And so if you’re listening, I’d encourage you to go to Roman’s website and to help support his ministry. By supporting him, you will be helping to bring people into the kingdom of God. So Roman, thanks so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Roman Nechay (18:11):
Thank you so much, Daniel. God. God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (18:16):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out that Daniel King’s School of Evangelism learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from an observing top evangelist, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start. The Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you, enrolled today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:17):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (20:38):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Podcast Episodes
Paulo Lopes | World Methodist Evangelism
Sean Dunn | Reaching Millennials and Gen Z With Innovative Digital Strategies
Bret Sipek | Crusade Planning in Africa
How to Take a City for God | Evangelist Daniel King
Evangelism Bootcamp Graduates On the Field
Mike Kasonde | Crusade Organization in Gandajika, Congo
Peter Youngren | It’s All About Jesus!
Chance Walters | Best Chance to Receive Christ
Tim Hall | Evangelism in Oceana
Gola Tiruneh | Evangelism in Indonesia
Christine Morgan | Bringing A Living Message To A Dying World
Paul Daugherty | Victory Church Has a Heart for Missions
The Pentecostal Movement in Sweden | Josef Maxson
Humanitarian Outreach in Burkina Faso | Samuel Ouedraogo
Missionary from Ghana to Guinea | James Obeng
Reaching Muslims in Guinea
You Can Make a Difference
You & Jesus Can Shake the World
Will You Do What Jesus Told Us to Do?
What is Your Soul Winning Goal?
The Three Circles Method of Sharing the Gospel
The Romans Road Method of Sharing the Gospel
Take Up Your Cross
Passion for Saving Souls
Let Your Light Shine
Five Steps for Leading People to Jesus
Are You Fishing or Fighting?
Tina Waldrom | Evangelism in Australia
Zach Blickens & Cyprès | Using Music to Draw People to Christ
Rick Willison | Even the Blind Can See Miracles
Michael Sin and the Fourth Dimension | Impacting Asia with Music from Malaysia
Manop Moonsri | Reaching the Youth of Asia with Music
His Pop | Redeeming Music and Culture for Jesus
Bishop Albert | Free Christian Churches
Niclas Wiktorell | What is God Doing in Sweden?
Samuel Jonsson | Building the Local Church in Sweden
Stephan & Anne Christiansen | How to Start a Jesus Revolution
Zac Linton | The Power of a Ministry Sabbatical
Giles Stevens | Church Multiplication in Brazil
Hans Martin | Evidence of Faith
Harald Mydland | The Life & Legacy of Aril Edvardsen
Scott McNamara | Jesus At the Door
The Legacy of T.L. & Daisy Osborn | LaDonna Osborn
Manuel Guardado | From Belize to the World
Joseph Wilson | Persecution in India
DJ Moz | Kubamba Youth Movement in Kenya
Lucian Mustata | Heartbeats Music Festival in Romania
Moses Muguro | Empowering the Local Church for Evangelism
Nick Hurst | Young Evangelist Launches Out
Tom Miyashiro | From Faith 2 Faith
The Call of the Evangelist
Omar Cabrera | Evangelist to Argentina
How to Work with a Translator
How to Tell a Crusade Story
How to Raise Money for Your Ministry
How to Preach the Gospel
How to Pray for the Sick
How to Open a Crusade Sermon
How to Give an Effective Altar Call
How to Cast Out Demons
Cross Cultural Sensitivity for Evangelists
How Do I Find a Key to Evangelize a Nation?
Jonatan Proietti | Nueva Generación de Evangelistas
Reggie van Dinter | Evangelism in the United Kingdom
Clown for Christ | Chagy the Clown
Elias Annacondia | Invasion of Hope
Christopher Beth | The Bucket Ministry
Beat Baumann | The Go Movement
Evangelism Explosion | John Sorensen
The Billion Soul Harvest | Young Cho
Every Home for Christ | David Schaal
Calling All Great Commission Workers to Amsterdam 2023 | Ashley Wilson
Buddy Bell | How to Build the Helps Ministry in Your Church
Paul Fraser | Multiplying Churches in Canada
Waldy Bersche | Saving the Lost
Lako Bedasso | What is God Doing in Ethiopia?
Help Us Buy a Sound System | The Joshua Campaign in Ethiopia
Suraphael Demissie | Prophet to Ethiopia
Barry Meguiar | From Car Crazy to Jesus Crazy
Ray Comfort | So Many Lions, So Few Daniels
Ben King | The Circuit Riders Come to Tulsa
Anthony Greco | The Gospel of Jesus…is Jesus
Tyrella Smith | Gospel Fire for All Nations
Jon “Razz” Laframboise | What is Your Unique Evangelistic Expression?
Stephen Strang | Spirit Led Living in an Upside Down World
Lewis Alexander | Great Commandment Network
Ron Luce | Reaching the Next Generation for Jesus
John Albiston | Coaching Churches for Growth
Chris Busch | How to Evangelize Through Media
Roman Nechay | Youth Crusades in Africa & Asia
Bill Hogg | Advance Evangelists Summit Canada
Pentecostal History | Larry Martin
Larry Martin | Pentecostal Gold
Mikel French | To Russia With Love
Frankie Cortez | Raising Up Influencers for Jesus
Khon Khan | Turning Killing Fields Into Harvest Fields
Kevin Hardin | Building Destinies in America and Asia
Christmas Wonderland | Daniel King
Wild Expectance | Bryan Citrin
Brigada Today | Hacks for Great Commission Christians