Ryan Lawrence is a financial advisor who has a heart to help ministers. In this episode of the Evangelism Podcast he explains why it is important for ministers to start planning for retirement at a young age. He gives some practical tips that will help you prepare for your future and give you options as you complete the calling God has on your life.

Here are some of the questions I ask Ryan Lawrence:

Why is it important for a minister to think about retirement?

Why does it important to start thinking about retirement when you are still young?

What do you say to ministers who never plan to retire?

Is it a lack of faith to put money aside for the future?

What are some of the steps that ministers need to take to prepare for retirement?

1. Get out of debt
2. Build an emergency fund
3. Put 3-4 months worth of income in savings
4. Put 15% of your income into investments
5. Pay off your house
6. Get Life Insurance
7. Open up an investment account.
8. Budgeting

Should a minister pay social security?

What are some of the vehicles that allow a minister to save for the future?

1. 401K – Pre-tax investing
2. 403-B if you work for a ministry
3. 457 Plan – a church or a ministry can put funds directly into a fund.
4. IRA
5. Roth IRA – tax free mutual fund
6. 529 Account for School Tuition

If you have more questions about preparing for retirement, contact Ryan Lawrence: ryan.lawrence@nm.com

For more advice for the evangelist, call Evangelism Coach Daniel King, 1-877-431-4276.

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Ryan Lawrence is a financial advisor who has a heart to help ministers. In this episode of the evangelism podcast. He explains why it is important for ministers to start planning for retirement at a young age, he gives some practical tips that will help you prepare for your future and give you options as you complete the calling God has on your life.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:27):
Well, Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:03):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And I also love helping evangelists and other ministers prepare for what God has called them to do. And so today I have a very special guest with me. Ryan Lawrence is a financial advisor who specializes in helping ministers prepare for retirement. Ryan, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank

Ryan Lawrence (01:34):
You for having me, Daniel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:35):
I think it’s really important for ministers to start thinking about retirement early on. Can you tell me a little bit about your, your background and how you have helped ministers?

Ryan Lawrence (01:50):
Absolutely. Well, it really started many years ago. Like most people when I graduated from college, I just felt like I wanted to do really whatever God had called me to do whatever the Lord had asked me. And when I married my wife, she’s a pastor’s daughter and a lot of the people that I knew at the time and a lot of the people that I became acquainted with were many ministers and got to know several in that group over the years, ask myself the question, what is it that I feel called to do with my life? Since I’m surrounded by so many people that are in ministry and my family and a lot of my relationships and the more I would pray and seek the Lord about what I needed to do, the more he kept leading me back into business, back into sales, back into just into the the areas of course that many people would say weren’t really ministry, but the longer I prayed and the longer I sought the Lord and obeyed, I just these opportunities kept opening up.

Ryan Lawrence (02:51):
I mean, I even tried a few times to dip my toe in the water of ministry. I taught Sunday school and I was horrible at it. I tried to do a lot of things to kind of open the doors, people would say, and it just wasn’t where God had called me. But the longer that I pursued and just you know, line upon line precept upon precept steps of a good man are ordered. He just kept opening doors more and more doors for me to be in business. And I started to understand why later, when I got into financial planning and I started meeting with a lot of these people that I knew and realized that they had never met with a financial advisor. It didn’t matter if they were new to ministry. It didn’t matter if they’d been in ministry for 30 years, many of them for whatever reason, either just felt uncomfortable, didn’t know who to ask. So it was something that very few of them had even broached the subject on.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:44):
So imagine that you’re sitting down with a young evangelist, someone who has a call from God on their life, and they are giving 110% to the kingdom of God. They’re pouring every single moment of their life into reaching people for Jesus. This evangelist is raising money to go do crusades. And it takes every bit of faith that takes that he has in order to, to pull off every crusade. And he’s young. What advice would you give him at this stage in his ministry to prepare for his future as a financial advisor? What would you say to him? Well,

Ryan Lawrence (04:29):
The first requirement that I have when I’m meeting with somebody is not necessarily how much money they ha they earn, or how much money they have it’s do they care about their family? And the answer is, of course, yes, they do. Of course, no matter how ambitious they are you know, for their calling, I know they care about their family. Usually it’s just something that has to be presented to them as one of the things that they’re going to do in order to be a success with their life. You know, we know the verse, we know the the example where Jesus said, listen, if you’re going to give you don’t have to give the full loaf away. You, you, he only asked you to give one of your coats away, not both of them. And he doesn’t ask you to give the full loaf. So there’s, there’s the other half of the loaf that’s meant for you. And of course, he says that because he wants you to take care of yourself and your family. And we feel very strongly that God doesn’t love you more as an evangelist. If you sacrifice everything that you have and die broke or a missionary or anyone else administry there, there certainly is a precedent that says we can do all of those things and do it the right way.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:34):
So why do you think that it’s important for a minister to start thinking about his finances and to start thinking about retirement? Well, yeah,

Ryan Lawrence (05:43):
We want to have options when you get to a certain point in life. And, and I, I mentioned that I married a pastor’s daughter and of course I know for a fact that he was a minister who took the time to learn these things. His board took the time to help him prepare. And when he got to the point where he was ready to retire, he had options. He didn’t have to keep working because financially he was required to, he decided to continue as ministry, but really focus on the areas that he wanted to do because the finances, weren’t a huge pressure at the time. And that’s something that I think allows people options when they get to that point a for themselves and also for their family, because sometimes retirement is about helping you in your latter years. And sometimes it’s about helping your family and what you leave behind as a legacy. So there there’s, there’s always going to be more options when we decide to set aside and do things the right way. Now,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:39):
I think some ministers have the mentality that they’re never going to retire. They’re just going to refire. They’re never going to get out of the ministry. They’re just going to step into eternity. And it’s easy to think that way when you’re 20, 30 years of age, but sure. Later on you want to have options, as you say. And so why do you think it’s important to start thinking about retirement while someone is still at a young age?

Ryan Lawrence (07:08):
Well, that’s the best time to think about it because Albert Einstein said that compounding interest is one of the great mysteries of the universe. And what that simply means is that the, the younger you start on a plan and the more that you’re not even huge numbers, but the more you’re able to divert a little bit of money in the right direction, the more it’s going to pay back huge dividends later in life. And there’s people right now that are in their twenties that I tell them, look, you know, you’re probably not going to stop working until you’re in your seventies. That’s just the real direction. That’s a, if we’re going to live to be in our nineties, we’re probably going to work until, you know, 72, 73. So, you know, when you have 50 years to do it the right way, it’s amazing what can happen if you just make little tiny adjustments. I mean, there’s plenty of analogies about for example, when a plane takes off in Tulsa and he’s, he’s flying you know, thousands of miles away, if he starts to deviate from his path early on, then by the time he gets to his destination, he’s going to be way off his path. Of course, we also know that when we’re young, if we make those small incremental adjustments to our budget to allow us to happen, it can produce great results.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:17):
What would you say to the, to the minister who might say that it feels like a lack of faith in God to set aside money to the future, say, let’s just worry about today that tomorrow take care of itself. What would you say to those who feel that preparing for the future might indicate a lack of faith in God’s ability to prepare?

Ryan Lawrence (08:37):
Well, I’ve never well, for first off, I mean, the fact that the Bible promises that somebody will all die you know, there, there is a certain there’s a certainty to that, that we know that if we’re going to die, it’s, it’s really wise to have certain things in place like life insurance. But, you know, the administrator of the day I met at a breakfast told me he was a, he’s a missionary in Africa. And he came to me and he said, you know, I’ve, I’ve always quoted the verse of scripture seek first, the kingdom of God. But he said, I kind of used it as a, as a way that I didn’t want to have to prepare, but something happened to him. He ended up getting married and he ended up having a baby. And it changed the way that he thought about the future. And I don’t think that there’s a lack of faith to look at your wife and kids and say, you know what, I’m going to do whatever I can to make sure that they’re taken care of. And I know a lot of ministers that have a tremendous amount of faith for themselves, but what I tell them is do you expect your wife to have exactly the same amount of faith as you do at that point in time, do you expect them to carry that on without even talking to them about it?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:39):
So you mentioned some incremental things that people could start doing. What are some of those things you just mentioned? Insurance talk, talk to me about some of the things that someone should start thinking about in order to have a solid financial plan.

Ryan Lawrence (09:56):
If somebody comes to me and says, how do I start a process? This may sound like a it’s slightly counterproductive. But the first thing I recommend they do is buy some life insurance on someone they care about. Usually their spouse. And the reason is, is because it doesn’t produce a huge result for them immediately. But what it does is it shows that they’re committed to the plan. It shows that they’re willing and committed to doing something for somebody else. That’s not going to produce any results for them immediately. It’s amazing how I’ve watched net worth of individuals over the years, start to head in the right direction. Once they make those little commitments. Sometimes it’s very small commitments. We have to make the steps of a good man are ordered. It’s never the next five steps. It’s always, what is the very next step that we need to do?

Ryan Lawrence (10:39):
Not the leaps and bounds, but what’s the step. So when they make that first commitment, we get that done. We get it done the right way. Second thing we try to do is go ahead and open up an investment account to where they’re automatically putting money into it. And if they’re only able to do a hundred dollars a month, perfect, we’ll start with that. For many people. If we’re talking about specific things, a Roth IRA is a wonderful place to begin. If you don’t have a company or a job, rather that matches your 401k than a Roth, IRA is a wonderful place to begin because it’s basically tax-free investing. So let, let’s

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:13):
Give some definitions here. Explain what is a 401k? What is a Roth?

Ryan Lawrence (11:18):
A 401k is what’s called a qualified plan. And that means you go work for a company. They offer a 401k where you can take money before it ever hits your paycheck. It’s called pre-tax investing. And it goes directly into this account. And sometimes your company will offer a percentage of a match. And if they do, you should always take it because it’s free money. Sometimes they don’t. So not every company offers that if they don’t offer a 401k or a 4 0 3 B, if you work for a ministry, then I always tell people, open up a Roth IRA. You can invest either six or $7,000 a year, depending on your age. And in many cases you might even be able to open up one free in your wife’s name. But it gives you the advantage of investing money into a plan that will never be taxed by the government.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:06):
What if someone is leading a ministry, is there a way for their board to set up a compensation package so that a portion of the minister’s compensation would go automatically into a 4 0 3 B or some type of

Ryan Lawrence (12:24):
That’s a great question. And absolutely 100%. One of the areas that I help ministers decide what options to choose. Let’s say you’re a minister or a head of an organization, and you only have two or three employees, or your employees are technically contract labor. And it doesn’t make sense for you to open up a qualified plan, like a 401k or four, three B, because there’s extra expenses involved to open up this plan. There are several different plans that you can do. There’s one plan that I’m particularly fond of called a four or five seven. And what that is is a ministry, a church, especially, or a ministry organization can put funds directly into an account on behalf of an individual like yourself or whoever is there. And because they are a nonprofit organization, the federal government, or the IRS does not monitor them, or does not ask them to abide by the same requirements as a business owner.

Ryan Lawrence (13:20):
They’re non-ERISA is what that’s called. And the government does not put stipulations on the amount of money that can go into that plan or the age that they have to start pulling from. For example, most plans. Now you have to start pulling from by 72 or the IRS will penalize you because they want that money to be taxed. If you work for a ministry or in charge of a ministry, you can actually invest money and not have those requirements. So there’s stipulations. So there are a couple of different, very good options that even ministers have that other companies don’t

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:52):
And then explain what a Roth IRA is.

Ryan Lawrence (13:55):
Sure. Roth IRA is basically a tax-free mutual fund and the government has said, we want to incentivize people to invest in their future. So what they do is they say, if you make less than 124,000 as a single individual, or 208,000, roughly as a married couple, you can invest up to $6,000 a year under the age of 50 or 7,000. Once you hit 50 and whatever that amount of money grows to someday, the IRS will never tax you on it because they have giving you a window that says, if you make below a certain amount, we’ll let you invest this amount of money. Now think about that for a second. If those limitations weren’t on there, then that’s the investment that everybody would use because nobody would really want to pay taxes. So it’s a great thing to take advantage of,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:43):
To at least start out with a Roth IRA, because you’re putting money in that that’s been taxed and then over life of the Roth IRA, you never pay any taxes on that money.

Ryan Lawrence (14:56):
No, never pay taxes on the growth, never pay taxes when you pull it out. Really the simplest analogy I can use is if you go to the store and buy a bag of seed and they say, okay, would you like to go ahead and pay taxes on it right now? Or would you like to go home, plant everything, harvest it, sell it, and then pay taxes. Then most of us would say, let’s go ahead and pay the taxes now and get it over with that’s what you’re doing with a Roth.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:16):
So what are some of the other steps that a minister should take in order to get their financial life in shape?

Ryan Lawrence (15:24):
Obviously budgeting is a huge part of that because it reduces stress and an agreement between you and your spouse to say, okay, we’re going to make solid financial decisions so that we can do these things. It’s, it’s simply the ability to manage your finances and, and be a good steward, not just to take care of your family, but we also want to be generous. We also want to give to ministries like yours. So we want to have the ability to do that. And you come to an agreement that you’re going to budget first, get it done in the right order and make sure that as the Bible says, good measure, pressed down, shaken together. When you’re pressing down, it really means that you’re just producing more room in your bag to be able to hold more later. So I think it’s great to have a well, there’s nothing wrong with just figuring out ways to make sure that you’re able to do all of these things really success in the financial world is, is not necessarily just having a lot of things to show people. It’s the ability to have nice things. It’s the ability to have your finances in order. It’s the ability to have your investments set up so that all of these things are moving forward properly. And the best way to measure that every year is take a look at your net worth. If your net worth is growing every year, that means you’re doing something right.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:34):
So let’s talk about budgeting. What are some percentages of what you would recommend that someone would invest? Like some people may have a big salary. Other people might have a small salary, but if you break it down into some percentages what would you recommend someone should be putting aside for the future? Well, there’s a lot. Yeah.

Ryan Lawrence (16:56):
I don’t have theories on that. I think a general rule of thumb is some people say between five and 10%, I think 5% is a, is a good starting point. If you can manage to do 10%, then obviously you’re, you’re managing your money. Well, because in this day and age, of course, there’s always going to be things that we need and things that we need to do. But when we do it in the right order, it allows us to control our money and control our compulsion’s. If you will, our emotions to where we actually learn how to say no to certain things and come back to it later and figure out a way to get it done. Right. And for many people, it’s usually about the order when they invest, when they give and they invest first, then the rest of the money that they have they’re able to manage their budget very well.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:40):
You’ve helped a lot of pastors and ministers to, to prepare for the future. Tell me some success stories of what people have been able to do.

Ryan Lawrence (17:51):
Well, there’s been really most of the success stories I have probably aren’t overwhelmingly exciting. I think what happens is, is I start out with a couple were literally their net worth is just a few thousand dollars. And within a few years, know, their net worth is well over a hundred thousand and going in the right direction. And it isn’t necessarily because they made wholesale changes across the board. It was very small changes that they decided to make. And it just started to add up in the right direction. Now I know that we’ve heard plenty of teaching on tiding and I I’m very much a fan of tightening. And I think we need to give generously as the Bible teaches, but where I think a lot of ministers unfortunately have missed an opportunity is they haven’t encouraged their people. What do they do after they tithe?

Ryan Lawrence (18:36):
And after the tiling is done, if they learn how to get these other things in order, they’re going to start seeing their finances grow tremendously. They’re going to start seeing their net worth every single year, the gap get wider and wider in the right direction because they’re making very small decisions. And most of the success stories I can say that I’m very excited about are people that I’ve been working with for the last 10 years that started off literally at zero that are now doing very well. And it was a very slow process because the Bible teaches that slow growth is the right way. If we gain, if we earn money too quickly, it tends to sprout wings and fly away. That’s what the Bible teaches because people don’t understand how to really manage it. And, and another example that has been researched and confirmed over and over again in my industry is that when people earn an inheritance or receiving inheritance, usually within 18 months, the whole amount is gone. And it doesn’t matter if it’s $5,000 or 5 million, because if they don’t have a foundation in place, how to handle that money, when they get it, they’re going to continue to spend money the same way they always have.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:36):
So let’s, let’s go through some of these incremental changes that you’re recommending for sure. First of all if you have a wife and kids, sure. Life insurance is one of those foundational things

Ryan Lawrence (19:49):
Should do. Absolutely. You can, you can start off with term insurance and you can you, everybody that I’ve worked with can afford some amount. I recommend, I think that every human being should have some life insurance on them. You know, even if they’re a newborn, I mean, there’s ways to do that, but it’s just simply because we’re trying to plan for the future, the best we can. And it allows us to take pressure off ourselves, allows us to sleep better at night. It allows our wives to feel more comfortable when we tell them, look, this is what would happen if something were to happen. And it’s certainly not a lack of faith to tell your wife that she’s going to be taken care of. I think it takes great faith to believe God for a little bit more money to go ahead and pay for these things more than it does to believe God that he’s going to take care of your wife after you’re gone.

Ryan Lawrence (20:32):
So when I look at all the things that happen, yes, life insurance is usually ground zero because it shows a commitment to your family, the investing portion, and there’s other things, depending on your levels of income, there’s other products out there that people will invest in such as disability insurance that will help them in case they can’t work anymore. Long-Term care. Insurance is something that people are starting to look a little bit more at as they get older. But in, in the beginning, if you’re just starting out, I do think that life insurance and starting an investment account is also very important because it gets your mind focused in the right direction. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:07):
And then another incremental thing that someone could do is get started with an investment account and set up to automatically put at least something in that, in, in on a regular basis, right?

Ryan Lawrence (21:20):
They, they do that simply. You can, you can have every month you can have it, of course pulled out of your bank account. If it’s a Roth or if it’s a 401k, it’s going to come out of your paycheck, but it allows you. I don’t want to say it forces you, but it gets you in a position where you become used to what your budget is. And before you know, it, you’ve already got something started and it’s going in the right direction. But you know, there’s also the ability to drop single amounts. And if you’re having a good year or if you saved a little bit, or you feel like, you know what, I’m going to go ahead and just drop something in at the end of the year, Roth IRAs will even allow you to drop. In a, for example, this is 2021. You can fund your Roth IRA for 2021 until tax day of 2022. So you actually get a couple extra months next year to go back and apply it to this year, if you want to. So there’s a lot of flexibility there.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:07):
What other advice would you give to a minister?

Ryan Lawrence (22:10):
Well, I certainly, as I said earlier, I certainly wouldn’t discount the fact that this is something that God really wants you to look into and be prepared. And I think it’ll only enhance your ministry to be that minister that actually takes care of these things as well. And doesn’t just completely ignore them. I feel like that the moment that you step into this room, I’ve never seen a minister who said, I’m going to go ahead and do this and started down that direction where God didn’t provide extra money for him to take care of his family. It’s just simple and he’ll do it every time I’ve watched it happen. And he’s not angry with you for doing it. It’s something that I feel like is up to you to do it. I feel like that we’re supposed to study the word and come to that conclusion on our own, but I don’t believe, I mean, after God has spoken to us through his word, I feel like that he’s not going to spend any time reminding us over and over again to do these things. It’s really our choice.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:59):
I have two young kids. Caleb is 11. Katie grace is nine, and we’re already starting thinking about paying for college for them. Are there some vehicles that can be used to help prepare for saving for college?

Ryan Lawrence (23:12):
Well, there’s the 5 29 plans in just about every state. I think has one that you can invest in and it simply works like this. You put money into the plan and whatever that balance grows to by the time they get to college, there’s no taxation on it. So it’s a tax free investment. As long as you make the payments directly to the university or trade school or whatever school they’re going to go to, then the government will not tax you. Now let’s say, you’re you put all this money aside and both your kids get scholarships. Cause they’re so brilliant, right? Eh, you can even give it to a relative if you want to at that point, or if you decide, you know what, I have no one else to give it to I’ll go ahead and pull the money out. Well, then you’ll have to pay taxes on the growth. And there is a little bit of a penalty. So it’s not, there’s really no advantage for doing that unless that’s the last option, but there are things available. Absolutely.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:59):
What do you think about social security? Some ministers opt out of paying social security. This is something that is only available to ministers. That’s one of the, either perks or dangers of being in ministry. I know some ministers, they say, I’m not going to pay social security. I’m going to invest it instead, but then they never invest. And when they get to retirement age, they don’t have that social security net to fall back on. What advice would you give to a minister in that

Ryan Lawrence (24:30):
Great question I’ve encountered this many times. Sometimes a minister will get ordained and you’ll have a friend say, look, just opt out so you can earn more money. Well, they’re not really thinking through the process correctly. Now that of course is a 7.6, 5% of your paycheck is pulled from pulled to social security. Now, when you work for an employer, they will match that. So it’s actually 15.2% of what you’re earning is going into social security. If you decide I’m no longer going to put my half in, that means your employer is not going to put their half on either. So you’re not just setting aside. You’re not just taking six point or 7.6, 5% off. You’re taking the whole 15.2. So my advice, if you’re going to do that, you need to go ahead and set up a Roth IRA immediately and put 7.65% into it.

Ryan Lawrence (25:22):
If you’re going to take advantage of that, I have no problem with somebody wanting to invest their money. In fact, if I were given the option to do that, I would certainly do that. Because I know we can do better with that. The problem, like you said is when people say I don’t have to pay that anymore. And they look at it as if it’s a raise, I can earn more money, but then when they get to retirement they’re at the very end of the line, I’ve had CPAs telling me that they have ministers that come in their office at 65, 67, just beside themselves in tears, because the denomination they were with says, it’s signed for them to retire. They have to move out of the parsonage and they have nothing, literally have nothing. And they’re of course their wives are trying to be supportive and they’re honestly asking themselves, what do I do now?

Ryan Lawrence (26:04):
I think that question probably should have been asked many years ago. And that is something that I try to a certain amount of reality that I try to shed on the situation is, you know, you do need to prepare for that. But I even have some ministers that worked before they got into ministry and I had one the other day, tell me, you know what, I’m not sure I want to take that money because it’s from the government. I disagree with what the government’s doing. And I said, listen, if you worked for usually it’s about 10 years before you opted out, you’ll still get something, okay, that’s the rule with social security is it’s basically 40 quarters or 10 years. If you do that, then, then you are vested in if you will. Well, if you know, he came to me and said, I’m not sure I really believe in the government’s vision with this. Do I really want to take this money? And I said, you should go and take it. Number one, you to loan them all that money. And now it’s time for them to pay it back. So you should go ahead and take it. I don’t think that many people have a problem with that, but so I’ve heard several different scenarios and I, I just feel like, look, if you don’t want to opt out, that’s really not always a bad thing either.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:07):
There’s a lot more technical details and specific investment vehicles that, that you have expertise in. Thank you so much for, for being on the program today. But if someone has more questions, they want to get more advice about how to prepare for their future, especially if they’re they’re in ministry and, and have some questions about that. How would someone get ahold of you and, and ask more questions?

Ryan Lawrence (27:34):
Just email me. My email address is Ryan dot Lawrence. That’s R Y a N dot L a w R E N C E at, and it’s in M for Northwestern mutual. But in, as in Nancy, M as in michael.com.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:49):
So ryan.Lawrence@nm.com, that’s correct. I would encourage you if you have more questions about being in ministry and how to prepare for retirement, how to prepare for your future questions about getting life insurance, about making investments putting money aside for your, your kids college, putting aside money for the future, I’d encourage you to, to reach out to Ryan Lawrence. He has a lot of expertise in this area. He also has the heart of a teacher teaching people how to properly prepare. I think that’s one of the, the, the key things. When you’re looking for an investment advisor, you want someone who doesn’t just sell you, you need to do this, you need to do that and, and, and gives you the thing that they’re going to make the biggest commission on to, to invest in. You want to be with someone who can teach you and to help you make the right decision for your future to understand why you are making these decisions and why they’re important.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:53):
And so you really have the heart of a teacher. I really appreciate that. And so I’d encourage you to, to reach out to, to Ryan Lawrence and ask him any questions you have about preparing for retirement now, while you’re still young in ministry. Ryan, thank you so much for being with us. I really appreciate you. You been a tremendous blessing to our ministry. You’ve supported us for quite a few years. Been very faithful, and I really appreciate that you guys are good grounded. So thank you for being with me. I appreciate it.

Ryan Lawrence (29:25):
You’re welcome.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:26):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, our ministry is supported by people like you, who help us go to the nations to preach the gospel. Our goal is every soul. It only costs us an average of $1 for every person. We’re able to tell about Jesus. And so could you do me a favor, go to my website, king ministries.com and become a partner with us for as little as $1 a month. You can start to partner with king ministries and help us lead at least one person to Jesus every single month. Imagine for $1, you can start a party in heaven every single month. So right now, go to king ministries.com and partner with us and help us to preach the gospel to those who need to hear the gospel. The most, the least reach people in the world. Also, I’d like to ask you to go to apple podcasts and give the evangelism podcast a five star review. Your positive review will help other people find this podcast who are excited about evangelism. Thank you so much. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (30:47):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.