1 877-431-4276Merry Christmas from the King Family
Merry Christmas from the King Family! Our family recently went to Branson and took this old fashioned photo of us dressed in Victorian clothing.
The picture reminds me of “A Christmas Carol” written by Charles Dickens in 1843 which is one of the greatest parables about repentance ever penned. Ebenezer Scrooge hates Christmas and everything that has to do with it but he is visited by several Christmas ghosts who remind him of what Christmas is really about. Scrooge changes from a bitter old miser into a person full of joy and compassion for others.
Jesus does the same thing when he transforms old ugly sinners into new creations!
This Christmas time, can you help our family transform lives by telling people about Jesus?
Laos
We witnessed a miracle in Laos, a Communist nation. God opened the door for us to have a music festival in the center of the biggest mall in the capital city of Vientiane. The police gave us strict restrictions and they kept a close eye on us the entire time we were in the country. But Jesus was glorified in the heart of a Communist city. Please pray for God’s protection for the local believers in Laos.
Laos is a Communist nation. During the Vietnam war it was a supply route for weapons used by the Viet Cong. The United States carried out a massive bombardment on Laos, dropping over two million tons of bombs which was nearly a ton for every person in Laos. Thousands of these bombs failed to explode and they continue to kill and maim people to this day. During the Cold War, Laos was supported by the Soviet Union but after the fall of the Soviet Union, they turned to China and Vietnam. Laos is the only landlocked nation in Asia and it has become an important part in Communist China’s “Belt and Road Initiative.”
The Communist Party holds all the power in Laos. They put extreme restrictions on the local churches. Because of their history of being against Christianity we had no idea if we would even be allowed to enter the country.
It took us about two hours to cross the border. The border officials did not want to allow our musical instruments to be brought into the country. They wanted a bribe and we refused to pay them money. They held us at the border, and we sat in the hot sun. One team member described the humidity by saying, “I feel like a dog licked me all over my body.” Finally, the border officials allowed the guitar and keyboard into the country.
We went to the biggest mall in the city and set up a stage in the open area in the middle of the mall. Before we started the police told us we were not allowed to preach. But they said we were allowed to sing any song we wanted to sing. So, we sang the Gospel. We started at noon and had worship groups sing until the mall’s closing time. As the bands sang, uniformed police officers kept a close eye on us to make sure we did not say anything forbidden. There were also secret undercover police that came to watch us.
The biggest crowd at any given moment was only a few hundred people. But everyone who came into the mall all day long could hear the music. I did a juggling show and ended by smashing an egg on my forehead. Since I was not allowed to preach I did a balancing routine with a broom and told everyone. “If you look up, your life will stay balanced. But if you look down your life will fall apart. Everyone say “look up!””
The next morning God opened the door for us to minister at a school to about 1,000 kids. After doing a juggling show, I shared a story about a smart teacher and a butterfly.
One member of the team gave an altar call and many students raised their hands. The local believers were amazed at how bold we were in sharing the Gospel. Some of them were scared but many of them were excited to see what God was doing.
That afternoon we ministered to another 800 kids at a second school. I was asked to deliver the Gospel message. But I was not allowed to give an altar call. I was told I was only allowed to share a testimony. I shared a story about how my mother caught me stealing cookies and I felt bad. That day, my mother taught me three things: God created me, God loves me, and God saves me.
In the evening, we ministered at a college to 75 students. After a brief program, we divided up into small groups and had conversations with the students. I had a conversation with four college age girls. They all had cell phones and were on Tik Tok. But none of them had ever heard about Jesus. I asked them, “Do you know who Jesus is?” One girl said, “Is Jesus an American singer?” So I started at the beginning of creation and shared the entire story of the Bible with the girls.
Please pray for Laos to meet Jesus!
Thailand
Spiritual warfare is real. On the street near our Gospel Festival in Khon Kaen, Thailand there was a Buddhist celebration. I saw a parade of two long lighted snake dragons held up by hundreds of people. A group of young men climbed two tall poles in the middle of the street. Then the snake dragon climbed up the pole and as it encircled the humans everyone celebrated with fireworks. At the top of the pole, the snake dragon looked alive as it surveyed the people’s adulation.
We are in a battle against an invisible enemy for the souls of men and women. “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:2).
According to the Museum of Siam, the society of Thailand is built on three pillars: Nation, King, and Religion. Religion is an important part of life in Thailand. Their traditional beliefs are a mix of Buddhism, animism, and Brahminism. Animism is a belief in spirits. These spirits can be appeased with little rituals or can give blessing in exchange for worship. People also wear amulets to attract or to repel spirits. Fortune telling is done by shaking fortune sticks out of a cup.
There are many Buddhist temples throughout Thailand with statues of Buddha. In some statues Buddha is standing, in others he is sitting, sometimes he is laying down. Each individual pose represents a different moment in Buddha’s life. Monks in orange robes chant in front of the statues. You will also see statues of Hindu gods with people burning incense in front of them.
Thailand has a population of almost seventy million people but only 3% is Christian. In order to reach people who have never had a chance to hear the Gospel, we set up our platform right in front of the main shopping mall in the city of Khon Kaen. The mall was ultra-modern and a huge billboard advertising the newest iPhone model was on the wall behind the stage. But at the same time from the stage we could see a monument dedicated to Buddha. Our event was advertised as an “International Gospel Music Festival,” and we used music from various bands to attract young people.
As I preached on the first night at the Gospel Festival,, everyone listened intently, and many responded. The theme of my message was “Shame & Honor.” In the west we usually think in terms of guilt and innocence but in much of the east they think in terms of shame and honor. In America, we rarely hear a sermon that talks about shame, but the Bible actually has a lot to say on the topic.
What is shame? Shame is when we feel isolated, rejected, polluted, excluded and abandoned. What is honor? Honor is when we are included, accepted, exalted, cleansed and loved. When God created us, He gave us great honor because we are made in His image. But sin caused shame to enter the world. When a thief is caught, he brings shame upon his family. Isaiah 59:2 says, “But your iniquities (sins) have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you…” This speaks to an Asian audience because “keeping face” is important to their culture.
God sent Jesus to take away our shame. He died a shameful death, hung naked on a cross. He took our shame upon Himself. But then God raised Him up and gave Him great honor. “Because of the joy awaiting Him, [Jesus] endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now He is seated at the place of honor beside God’s throne” (Hebrews 12:2b). You have probably heard Romans 10:9-10 quoted a hundred times. But have you ever read the next verse? “The one who believes in Him will NEVER BE PUT TO SHAME” (Romans 10:11). When we receive Jesus and believe in Jesus’ name, we receive the right to become children of God (John 1:12) which is a position of great honor.
Jesus takes our guilt and gives us forgiveness. Jesus also takes our shame and gives us great honor. Jesus is Lord of both the east and the west. When I gave the altar call, many young people filled out decision cards.
Thank you for helping us reach people for Jesus in the nation of Thailand!
Help Us Lead People to Jesus
The goal of King Ministries is to lead one million people to Jesus every year. We can not accomplish this goal without your help. Would you give a monthly gift to help us rescue people from hell? Even a gift of $1 a month would be a huge help.
Over the course of our twenty years of ministry, we have found it takes an average cost of $1 for every person we have lead to Jesus. In order to do large evangelistic outreaches, we need to rent a platform, sound system, and advertise the event. Plus we give away thousands of free books and Bibles to help disciple the new believers.
The Bible says that all of heaven rejoices when one sinner gets saved, so for only $1 a month, you can be responsible for starting a party in heaven every single month. Click here to become a monthly partner with us today.
Cambodia
Cambodia is famous for its Buddhist temple, Angkor Wat. According to Guinness World Records it is the largest religious structure in the world. At one time, Angkor Wat was the center of a great empire. As I explored the ruins of this ancient temple, I was fascinated by what it represented. Inside every human being is a need for God and the temple was an attempt to connect with the Creator of the Universe. For eons, humans have desired to know God.
Cambodia is 97% Buddhist. According to Buddha, all of life is suffering. This suffering is caused by desire. In Buddhism the way to be free from suffering is to free yourself from desire and the way to do that is by following the pathway of enlightenment.
Yet despite Cambodia’s commitment to Buddhism, they have still faced great suffering. In 1975 Cambodia was taken over by the Khmer Rouge, a Communist party. Under their regime an estimated three million people were viciously murdered. The places where people were killed is known as “The Killing Fields.” For many years it was impossible to preach the Gospel in Cambodia. But now the door is open for us to tell people about Jesus. Now the “Killing Fields” have become “Harvest Fields.”
Gospel Festival in Battambang
Our Gospel Music Festival took place in the city of Battambang, Cambodia. Sitting at the entrance to the city is a huge idol holding a stick. The name of the city “Bat-tam” means “losing” and “bang” means stick. There is an ancient Buddhist story about a king who lost his stick then miraculously found it again. To this day, the people of the city of Battambang worship the figure of the “stick-king.” I saw people burning incense and offerings of food and drink to the idol as they bowed down in front of it in an act of worship.
Our team flew into Bangkok, Thailand. Then we took a van to drive across the border into Cambodia. The border closed at 10:00 pm and we made it across at 9:55 pm.
On our first day in Cambodia, we ministered in a prison. There were about 220 prisoners and they all prayed with us for salvation.
We used music to attract a crowd to the two-day International Gospel Music Festival. It was held in a church campground and thousands of people were in attendance. The people enjoyed listening to the local artists and church worship groups, and watching our dance team of teen girls dressed in typical Cambodian clothing doing traditional dances.
I preached on the three greatest miracles in the Bible: God created you, God loves you, and God saves you. When I gave the altar call, many people gave their lives to Jesus.
Discipleship Book Translated into Cambodian
For this festival, we translated my book “Welcome to the Kingdom” into the Cambodian language and gave it away to all the new believers who got saved. There are not many Christian resources available in the Cambodian language, so the book was greatly appreciated. It teaches people how to be saved, how to be healed, how to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and how to walk with God. I wrote the book twenty years ago and now it is available in eight different languages. Over the years, we have given away over 600,000 copies of the book to people who prayed with us for salvation.
In Cambodia, a gift copy of the book was given to the Undersecretary of State of the Cambodian Ministry of Cults and Religions. He is the government official in charge of representing all religious activities in the nation.
We printed extra copies of “Welcome to the Kingdom” and gave them to the local churches who worked with us. Already we have received reports of the book being used in many places to teach people about Jesus.
On Sunday morning I visited a local church that was doing a sports outreach for all the youth in the area. The young people play in a soccer league hosted by the church. But in order to play, they have to attend a special devotional on Sunday morning. The church decided to use my book as the basis for their devotionals. Every week the young people will study a new chapter.
Thank you! It is because of your financial support that we are able to put resources like the book “Welcome to the Kingdom” in the hands of people who are searching for God.
Tina Waldrom | Evangelism in Australia
Tina Waldrom is the host of the Win Win Evangelism Podcast and the director of Evangelism in Australia. She loves to equip believers and churches for evangelism. On today’s podcast we talk about how Aussies do not want anyone to shove religion down their throat but they are open to having spiritual conversations. You will be blessed as you learn about what God is doing on the continent “down under.”
Learn more about Tina Waldrom: https://evangelisminaustralia.com/
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me from Australia, all the way from down under Dr. Tina Waldrom. Thank you for being on the Evangelism podcast.
Tina Waldrom (00:18):
Thanks Daniel. It’s a great pleasure to be on your show.
Evangelist Daniel King (00:22):
Alright, we have just finished recording an interview for your podcast, which is called the Win-Win Evangelism Podcast. Tell me about how you got started doing an evangelism podcast.
Tina Waldrom (00:39):
Evangel. That is a great question. Well, before the Evangelism podcast was almost three decades of evangelism ministry. So I’ve worked with local churches and evangelistic organizations and then I kind of had stepped out to start my own organization as such evangelism in Australia. And one of the things that I felt the Lord speaking to us about was a podcast. And I’ve got to say, Daniel, I’ve never been a person that listened to podcasts up until that stage. And I was like, what on earth is this and how do I go about communicating through that medium? So that’s how it came about with the attempt to do the same as I’ve always done, try to equip the everyday believer to share their faith with the world around them. So yeah, had to learn the whole craft. And now we’re three years in weekly podcast. Absolutely love it.
Evangelist Daniel King (01:39):
Now, if you listen to my Evangelism podcast, I encourage you to go and subscribe to Dr. Tina’s Evangelism podcast because if you like mine, I know you’re going to like hers. We have the same heart for evangelism now you are in Australia and your focus is on training the body of Christ on how to share their faith. And so talk to me a little bit about the spiritual atmosphere in Australia and why you feel it’s so important to equip the church in Australia in evangelism.
Tina Waldrom (02:22):
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think like most Western worlds, a lot of people, the majority of people statistics show us in Australia are not interested in attending church. It’s pretty hard trying to get your regular secular Aussie into church, Daniel. And so my question is always, well, how do we move the church into the community? It’s a very biblical illiterate society that we live in now. How do we get the church there and how do we win the most people to Jesus? How do we get the most people to hear about Jesus? The answer for me is to equip every person that follows Jesus and to give them ways that are natural. And could I say easy? Because if Jesus said go and make disciples, he must have thought that everybody could do that. So trying to uncomplicated it, trying to make it a way that people can see this is doable.
(03:35):
Jesus thought this was doable, and so give them the skills to do that. So yeah, that’s the climate. And pretty much in Australia also Daniel, we have what’s called the tall poppy syndrome, whereas if someone’s really good at something, the Australian culture wants to pull those people down. We want everybody on the same level and we want everyone to feel like you are my mate, you’re my mate, my friend. So talk to me like that. Don’t talk down to me. Don’t come across superior in any way. So we like to have those discussions about how we can do that, how we can land it best in the Australian culture.
Evangelist Daniel King (04:13):
Now, I was looking at your website, it’s found@evangelisminaustralia.com, and you have a variety of resources there. Tell me a little bit about what people can find on your website and how you train people in evangelism and how you coach people who have a heart for evangelism.
Tina Waldrom (04:38):
Yeah, so basically our podcast is a fantastic free gift for people weekly. They can hear amazing interviews exactly like your podcast, and we are trying to ground it to the everyday believer all the time of how they can share their faith. But also we have online courses. So our most, well-known course on mission with god.com is a course that has four modules that people can go through basically to share their faith. And there’s a free sample for that course. In fact, you can go to on mission with god.com/free sample and you can see how it looks, the platform that the learning is on, so to speak. So yeah, brilliant stuff. And it’s all outlined there for you about what you can learn, but we certainly can make it easier for you. We can make it doable. We can give you tips that you go, oh yeah, absolutely, I can do that. So very relational, very personable in the approach. Yeah, thank you for asking.
Evangelist Daniel King (05:41):
Now, you have been involved in evangelism for many years now, but how did you first get started? How did you first develop this passion for evangelism?
Tina Waldrom (05:56):
Another great question. I met Jesus in the United States of all places. I’m actually call myself a missionary to Australia. I met Jesus in California in San Diego in 1992, and I went to church as much as I could go. It was such a game changer for me to realize that God was real, such an incredible blessing. And on a Sunday night, I would go to this church in Mira Mesa and the pastor did this series on evangelism, and he started talking about this thing in the Bible called an evangelist, which was all new to me. And as he was talking about that for a number of weeks, I just knew that I knew Daniel, that God had called me to be this thing, like share Jesus with other people and equip people to do that. I just knew that I wanted to do it in a certain way. So that’s really how it all came about. And in hindsight, you see that as the calling of God. I didn’t really know that then, but then I just walked that out and I’m just passionate. Every day I’ll wake up just thinking, oh, how can I equip someone to share their faith? How can I share my faith? So yeah, just love it. I’ve been arrested by the Holy Spirit.
Evangelist Daniel King (07:24):
Now, I noticed that you completed your doctorate of ministry at Fuller Theological Seminary, which is a great seminary there in California. Tell me a little bit about your dissertation or the project you did to graduate, and what did you learn about evangelism through that process?
Tina Waldrom (07:49):
Yeah, so that was a hard one. I really had to work through what specifically could I write about, it needed to be practical. I ended up doing a lot of research around my area of the church that I attend and how we can best engage with society. But then I articulated that into how do we reach people that are spiritual, but not so much wanting to know about Christianity but wanting a spiritual conversation. And so I love interior design and interior decorating. So I came up with a course so to speak, that people would go to over five or six weeks, they travel around to beautifully styled homes. It was really pitched at women. Not to say that guys aren’t into this, but women, some of us just love it. And you would go to different homes and you would go to a space in the home.
(08:42):
Let’s take the kitchen. And you’d talk about, I would have a stylist there talking about how you style a kitchen, how do you design a kitchen? But then I would talk about the angle of the kitchen is the heart of the home. And so I would have a spiritual teaching on the heart and heart issues to engage with these pre believes, let’s call them that would be there. And so I just loved every bit of it because so many people are interested in a spiritual conversation, not so much the Christian conversation. So putting the tools there for that space of the journey that they’re into. Then there was other areas of the home also. So yeah, that’s what I wrote on. I loved it. Love fuller, love it, love it, love it.
Evangelist Daniel King (09:28):
Now let’s say that a pastor heard about you and called you and said, Dr. Tina, I want my congregation to be better at sharing their faith and to have a heart for evangelism. What would you go and offer that church and tell that congregation that would help them to reach people for Jesus?
Tina Waldrom (09:53):
Yeah. Well, I don’t think it’s not information that you wouldn’t share or I wouldn’t share. And over the years I’ve learned that sometimes we can go in to congregations or you can say to a pastor years they’ll come and do something for a weekend. Actually, the real life change is when it’s consistent. So it’s more like, let’s not do an evangelism seminar, but let’s plan out maybe a six month or yearly plan where people are consistently getting resource and encouragement to share their faith. I think it was Bill Hybels years ago that said, every church has a high value of evangelism, but it’s actually, it’s not actualized, it’s not outworked. Of course, we all want to have encouraged people to evangelism, but we don’t get them to do that because they lose heart or they’re not receiving that consistent encouragement. So it’s more about putting weekly things in throughout a year or over the years that keeps that value outworked highly all the time rather than a, so that’s the conversation. That’s the conversation really. That’s the baseline, I would say. Yeah.
Evangelist Daniel King (11:17):
Talk to me a little bit more about Australia. What are some of the unique challenges and opportunities for reaching people in Australia?
Tina Waldrom (11:31):
Yeah, great question. So what are the challenges? Well, one of them, what I said to you, Aussies, just don’t give a rip about church, to be quite honest. And so the challenge is like never before, how do we get the church into the community? I actually think that Covid gave us some great insight to what God is doing in our nation. We saw the church become highly engaged with the community and pastors everywhere that I was talking to were so excited. They were saying, oh, our people are totally engaged in the community all the time, months and months ago on Melbourne, where I live was the most locked down city in the world. So we were locked down forever and couldn’t do anything. I saw it as a blessing and was praising Jesus in the right way. Of course, it was tragic, but the church continued to, because they couldn’t go into the four walls of the church, they stayed outside in their communities and they reached people for Jesus.
(12:29):
So the challenge is now, I believe Daniel, is that our churches are back open, that we can slip back into that about I love churches, but we’ve got to continue to keep the focus into the community. We’ve got to encourage that going forward. So that’s the challenge and the opportunity to be quite frank, is that there are great opportunities out there. If people are up for a conversation, people are up for a spiritual conversation. It’s not that people don’t want to talk about spiritual things anymore. It’s wide open in my country. So it’s more the upskilling of the everyday person to be able to share their faith in ways that can connect with the Australian society or ways that connect with the United States culture there or wherever you are. But in Western society, there’s definitely an openness never before.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:27):
So how do you start a conversation with someone who says, I don’t care about church. I’m not religious, but I want to be a spiritual person. How would you start that conversation?
Tina Waldrom (13:41):
Yeah, so I love sharing my experience, but I love sharing it in a way that provokes a question. So I don’t want to impose my experience. I want to share my experience and ask people to engage with it. So I’ll share an experience that, oh my gosh, I had all these coincidences happen in my life and my worldview actually is a Christian worldview, and I’m convinced that this is God moving. I’m convinced that he is real and really alive. And then I would just ask the question, what’s your own thoughts about God doesn’t need to be the Christian God, in my mind, I’m just asking the question, what’s your own thoughts about God or spiritual things? I’m always trying to gather information from people so that I know them more so that I know what’s going on in their head so that I can keep engaging. I’m big on trying to keep people on a journey with people. I’m big on discipleship. I want to actually go on a journey with people in the world that Jesus has placed me and I want to walk with them. And over time, they see Christ revealed in my life. I mean, I’m discipling people now. They just don’t know they’re being discipled, but they’re seeing Jesus all the time. So yeah, hope that answers your question.
Evangelist Daniel King (15:05):
And what would you say to encourage a believer who maybe has a heart for evangelism but has never been bold enough to start one of these conversations? What would you say to encourage them to look for ways to start a conversation?
Tina Waldrom (15:24):
Yeah, what I would say is every person, every person is not the person for the conversation. I would say that God is at work. God is at work in people’s lives, and we need to perceive where he’s at work and then engage. For example, sometimes you can have a conversation and you can sense, oh, there’s an ease and it’s natural. Now for me to ask this question and it feels natural, but there’s times where you go, oh, it just feels like this is a brick wall here. And it would be totally awkward if I mentioned something about Jesus. And I would say at that moment, for myself, I actually don’t say anything in that conversation. I’m looking for those places where God is already at work in people’s lives where I’m coming along and building on something that’s gone on their life in the past, and that’s where I engage.
(16:25):
So in my mind, there’s people in my world that I’m engaging with and we’re just building a friendship, me and them or Jesus and them and me. And then there’s people where there’s already work. That’s the holy Spirit’s done in their life, and that’s more open. And so I’ll add a few more seeds, and then there’s next people that are ready for me to say, oh gosh, a lot. Have you ever thought about asking Jesus into your life? So it’s perceiving where God is at work. It’s assuming that he’s the great evangelist, and I’m really just coming along and working with him or partnering with him. It makes it a lot easy for all of us, I think.
Evangelist Daniel King (17:05):
Amen. We’re not doing it alone. God is on our side. Well, Tina Waldrom, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast with me. It’s such a great blessing to meet you and to hear about what God is doing in Australia. He’s working here in the United States and down under as well. And so if you have an interest in evangelism, particularly if you’re from Australia, I encourage you to go to the website evangelism and australia.com and you can learn more about evangelism from Dr. Tina Waldrom there. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast.
Tina Waldrom (17:50):
Thanks, Daniel. It’s been a great pleasure. Thank you.
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Zach Blickens & Cyprès | Using Music to Draw People to Christ
In this podcast episode, Daniel King interviews musician Zach Blickens, the leader of the music group Cyprès. They discuss the power of music in evangelism and how it can be used to draw people to Jesus. Zach shares his journey of discovering his musical talent and his calling to use music to spread the message of Jesus. He emphasizes the importance of being intentional about sharing the gospel through music and not just focusing on praise and worship. He highlights the significance of involving his family in the ministry and the importance of balancing family and ministry.
Learn more about the band Cyprès: https://cypresmusic.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest, world renowned musician and leader of a great music group called Cyprès, Zach?
Zach Blickens (00:16):
Yes sir.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:21):
Well, thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism podcast.
Zach Blickens (00:24):
Yeah, no, it’s a privilege to be here and it’s been great hanging out with you in Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand, which is where we’ve been.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:30):
Yeah, this has been a wonderful three country tour and in all three countries I’ve really seen God use you and your daughter. Praise Jesus. And your wife is here to just, God has used you in such a tremendous way through music. Praise God as a tool for reaching people. Praise God. Talk to me a little bit about how God can use music to evangelize.
Zach Blickens (00:54):
Well, it’s interesting. I got my start in worship right? That was God rescued me and basically I discovered worship. I discovered that I was a musician beforehand trained. I was actually trained in opera, which is crazy, but we’re a pop band now. We don’t sound like that. And I got my start and one of the things that God used was worship. And it’s just this awesome focus. And throughout my journey with Jesus, he just began stirring in my heart that I just knew he began to speak to me and I just became convinced that he had called me and my whole family, the vision spread to my whole family was to actually just set foot on every nation and used music in the spoken word to present the message of Jesus. And I think music is this incredible, incredible tool. I mean, because the reality is everyone likes music, everyone likes different kinds of music.
(01:43):
And it’s interesting, when we started out, we kind of started as kind of a little more traditional, almost like almost like a folk influence worship when we would go out. But I started to realize that there’s an incredible power that comes when you can. We’ve switched over kind of to pop almost in EDM kind of sound. There’s something powerful that happens when you can draw this crowd, engage people, and just basically our goal is to throw the biggest party in town. And it does incredible things as far as actually drawing people, but also music when it’s focused on Jesus. And when you can be intentional with that, it can actually draw hearts to Jesus. So we look at ourselves as the way John the Baptist came saying, prepare the way for the Lord. Our heart is to prepare hearts and minds and draw people for the message as it’s shared the simple message of the gospel of Jesus Christ. So I actually think that for us, I know it’s what we’re called to, but I think that music is an incredibly powerful tool. It’s got to be intentional. And there are a lot of things, there are a lot of mistakes we’ve made and a lot of things we’ve learned over the years. But I think music has an incredible power to draw. People
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:47):
Talk to me about how musicians can be intentional about sharing the gospel, because sometimes musicians get up, they sing their songs and they say, I want everyone to just say, praise Jesus. And they think that is enough of the gospel. But really you have the audience, you should take the opportunity to really communicate how someone can be saved. So what advice would you give to a young musician who maybe wants to use their music in evangelism?
Zach Blickens (03:19):
Sure. And I think that’s a really good question and a really good distinction because the truth is obviously there are lots of functions in the body of Christ. Like I said, there’s discipleship in the church and all that stuff. But our job as the church, the way I see it’s two things. It’s to introduce people to Jesus and it’s to help raise them up as disciples and teach ’em how to follow Jesus. And everyone’s different. But for us, we are convinced that it is crucial to use this for evangelism. And I think what’s really interesting is that I didn’t know that when I started, I didn’t have that conviction. I just knew that I was supposed to go play music. And also that I was a speaker, I talked about Jesus. But early on I felt like God spoke to my heart and challenged me that every time we will play any show, as long as God opens the door and God says yes, but we have to someone even in our writer, that someone in every show has to share the simple gospel. And for me, I just started out of that conviction, started sharing the simple gospel. I mean, it’s simple, right? It can be 30 seconds, it can take three hours, but it can also be 30 seconds. Alright,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:24):
Give me the 32nd version of the
Zach Blickens (04:26):
Gospel. Sure. 32nd version. And I think it’s so beautiful and this is the way what I’ve boiled it down to, but I think there is a God, he’s good. He created us for a relationship with him. That’s the first thing. The second thing that’s really important is to know that every single one of us Bible says all have sinned and fall short to the glory of God. So we’ve separated ourself from God by the bad things, the sin we’ve done. And obviously the good news, the gospel is that God, when he looked at us in that situation, broken and separated it, instead of judging us like we deserved, he sent his son Jesus to die and pay a price that only he could pay. He died, he rose from the dead in order to purchase our forgiveness, our freedom, and our reconnection with God. That to me is the simple gospel.
(05:06):
And for us, it’s also important to say it really is easy to say yes to. Gs as AB, C, admitting we are broken, believing Gs is who he says he is. He’s God, he rose from the dead and calling on his name, committing our lives to him. So that to me is the simple gospel and we’re passionate that that be shared by somebody every single time. And once I started doing that, I started seeing people come to Jesus and I was like, oh, maybe I’m an evangel. I was like, it was that sort of thing. But for me, I think if as we grow in our comfort in sharing that, I feel like one of the biggest things we can do is, especially in these big festivals, is to remember that the whole purpose of this festival is to introduce people to Jesus. And there is a speaker, you or Keith Cook or Reed Saunders or some of these other amazing communicators, their job is to seal the deal, is to give the invitation and all that stuff.
(06:00):
And we can either look at it as it’s about us and hey, thanks so much for coming. Or we can take the attention that we have gotten from the people and we can point it to Jesus and we can point it and say, whatever you do, don’t miss this message. And I feel like that one simple shift of it’s not about me, it’s not about me being a rockstar, which is always tempting, but it’s about this message. I feel like just that simple shift is a massive thing young musicians can learn and do. And we’ve gotten incredible opportunities just because that’s our commitment, if that, does that make sense?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:29):
One of the things that I really like about your ministry is you’re a team player. You don’t come with a big ego, which sometimes musicians deal with
Zach Blickens (06:39):
That. We all fight it, we all, yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:41):
But you recognize that you have a part in the presenting of the gospel using the music to draw people and then working together with other communicators. And you have been really a part of the team of On the Go, which is the ministry of Keith Cook for quite a few years. And one of the things I think is so valuable is mentorship and coming under the wing of someone who’s experienced in evangelism to help us to sharpen our message and get better at presenting the gospel. So with your long relationship with Keith Cope, what are some of the things that he’s helped you with that have made you a better evangelist?
Zach Blickens (07:24):
Oh my gosh. I mean, I’m so grateful. I feel like in my life I’ve been given the incredible, the answer to cry of my heart. He’s given me such incredible fathers, and Keith has been one of those fathers. And for me, I feel like I came in as definitely as a worship artist and communicator, but really I feel like I learned everything. And honestly, as a young up and coming evangelist when I started and stuff, I feel like one of the most valuable things for me was to first of all hear the wisdom that comes from him and not think that I have all figured out. I might have had a lot of experience in the church, or maybe not, which I did, but I didn’t have any experience in the street. And I’ve told people I feel like everyone should have to learn the way I did, which is basically you get thrown on the street in Africa and say, you have five minutes, earn your crowd, share Jesus and give a call.
(08:15):
Don’t lose your crowd. And I feel like it’s terrifying, terrifying, but just facing that and being given those opportunities. And so I feel like humility is one of the crucial things in, and you have to choose humility because you always think that’s when humility really is so evident is when you think you know what the best way is and you have someone experienced and you have to say, you know what, I’m going to trust you on this. And so I feel like that learning from the experience and then learning how to interact with the pastors and learning how to all those things, I feel like it’s been crucial. But I feel like I learned just I was just a baby and I feel like I learned everything from being able to surrender and say, okay, God, you’ve given me this mentor. Let me learn from him. And there’s just so much, so different being, it’s so different when it comes to engaging the crowd, drawing the crowd, doing that stuff. It’s so different from what we’re used to, whether it’s played in a secular, whether you played in clubs or whether you’ve played in church. It really is different. And I’ve learned a lot. I learned everything.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:19):
Another thing I really like about you is that you involve your entire family in the ministry. Your daughters have been singing with you, you’re writing songs together as a family. Your wife is right there right alongside of you helping singing and doing an administration. Why do you feel it’s important to involve the family in the ministry that you’re called to?
Zach Blickens (09:42):
My gosh, actually the short, I don’t know, I’m kind of stumbling over my words because for me it’s like this is my dream.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:54):
It really comes out of you, it’s part of you.
Zach Blickens (09:57):
It’s like we didn’t necessarily go into this being like, okay, we’re going to involve the family. I just love my family so much. And we all developed a desire to travel and go out. And so Kayla, who is basically our lead singer, she’s my youngest daughter and she has been doing this since I think she was 11 years old. And we just go like, Hey, let’s come to Africa or whatever. And so it started that way and then the girls on their own struggled through their own things and prayed. But basically this vision that God gave us, gave me has become theirs. And Kayla just heard God at a young age being calling toward evangelist as an evangelist. And then so we’ve started throwing her in. She’s now just an incredible communicator and it’s just basically, it’s a dream come true for me, but I wouldn’t know. How do you involve your family? I’m just like, love ’em, walk through ’em, have grace and the tough things and do that. How
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:55):
Do you balance family and ministry?
Zach Blickens (10:59):
I think for us, one of the most important things we could do to answer that question is for me, what we do is really, really awesome. And it’s incredible privilege, but it’s also exhausting. For example, I love this country. It’s also the hottest place I’ve ever been in my life. So humid and hot and beautiful, but it’s exhausting. And so one of the things that we felt God kind of challenged us to do early on, and my oldest daughter really challenged me in this, was really to not just talk about Sabbath but to arrest that season of intentional rest, but to really do it. So I feel like one of the most valuable things we can do is when we go on the field we go hard, but then one those times in between the tours and things like that, we really prioritize allowing ourselves to be recharged and refreshed and be a family.
(11:49):
The other thing I think is so important is the intentionality of loving conflict. And that is not fleeing from conflict, getting our stuff right, because there’s so many things, especially on the road that can offend us or hurt us or I tell people in production in the studio, there’s a lot of tears and a lot of them are mine because we’re all sensitive, we’re all musicians and all those stereotypes are kind of true, but the intentionality of just going and saying, Hey, this hurt me. Can we walk through this? And processing that forgiving and repenting and clearing those relationships. I think that all those things are, especially in the fire and the heat of what evangelism is, it’s really high pressure.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:29):
Now how many countries have you your family been to so
Zach Blickens (12:33):
Far? Yeah, so as far as we’ve been to a lot more than this, but this is Cambodia right now is country number 40.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:40):
Wow. Congratulations.
Zach Blickens (12:41):
Amazing. Yeah. Praise Jesus. And so over that time, you might not know about the band in America, but I tell people in a couple of small villages in Asia we’re rock stars, but it’s been hundreds of thousands of people we’ve gotten a chance to be in front of and share Jesus with. And we’ve seen tens of thousands of people come to Jesus probably more by this point. And I tell people it’s like I get to see things in a week that sometimes people might not get to see in a lifetime. And I do not take that for granted. I love watching people come to g. I love people coming from death to life, seeing that. The other
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:12):
Day we were in Thailand and we went to a prison, there were a thousand prisoners there. And you grab their attention singing a song about the goodness of God. Yeah, praise God. Let’s finish this interview up with a few bars from, so good. Can you just do a little
Zach Blickens (13:32):
Bit for us? So the English version goes, you
Cyprès (13:34):
Are so good, so good. You are so good, so good. You are so good. So good to all.
Zach Blickens (13:42):
And that’s the English. And we usually translate, I think we’ve translated in that in probably 30 different languages. And it’s so simple. It’s a song that it’s not even on Spotify anymore. I don’t think it’s on YouTube anymore. We originally did it and then we kind of pulled it as it was from our old catalog, but it’s been a song that has gotten a lot of mileage. So I praise God
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:01):
That’s a fun song. And I thought it was great at the prison because just pointing people to the goodness of God.
Zach Blickens (14:08):
And what we say too, it is become part of our thing that we say, right? But it’s the saying we have that God is good all the time. What’s so powerful about that is that God’s good when we’re doing well, but God’s also good in our brokenness. God’s also good. He’s good. He doesn’t change depending on how we are. And he’s so constant. He’s so good. And so we love to sing that. And it’s so funny seeing prisoners in prison. They’re our captive audience, but they’re in a dark, tough spot. They’re incarcerated. But to still in that prison see them being like, you are so good and giving that glory to God. It’s just such a powerful thing to see.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:45):
So if someone wants to hear more of your music or find out more about you or maybe support you on one of your mission trips, help send you to one of these countries. What’s your website? What’s your YouTube channel? How can they find your music?
Zach Blickens (15:00):
Yeah, so our name is Cyprus. It’s actually spelled, it’s pronounced like the English, but it’s spelled like the French and that’s important. So it’s one E and one s. So it’s C-Y-P-R-E-S. And our website is Cyprus music.com. And our YouTube channel is YouTube at slash whatever cypress music. And so yeah, we would love to check us out and every time I do like to say it’s important to people if you do like our music, if you don’t, cool, great, that’s fine. But if you do like our music and the message, then anytime that you can share that with a friend or repost it or something like that, or just follow us on Spotify or anything as simple as that, it really does help us to reach people eventually with the message of Jesus. And that’s what we’re absolutely committed to do. And you can, if people are listening and they’re interested, please pray for us. Pray for Daniel. And it’s been a privilege hanging with you and actually seeing, we’ve been in the Crazyness, we’ve been together
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:56):
Facebook friends for a while, so now we get to hang out and I mean now we’re good friends. We’ve been three countries.
Zach Blickens (16:03):
We sweat a lot
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:03):
Together. We sweat after you sweat a lot, then you’re good fit. You stick right here. Yeah, I love your music, but even more, I love your heart for Jesus. Oh, praise Jesus and your heart for reaching people. Oh, praise Jesus. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism
Zach Blickens (16:18):
Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for all you do and God bless you, brother. I really appreciate it. Thanks for what you do.
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Rick Willison | Even the Blind Can See Miracles
Rick Willison, founder of Team Jesus Ministries Incorporated and the Extreme Team, joins Daniel King on the Evangelism Podcast. Despite being blind, Rick travels internationally on mission trips and uses feats of strength to share the gospel message. He explains the spiritual meaning behind each feat, such as breaking a baseball bat to represent breaking the devil’s grip and stacking and breaking walls of bricks to symbolize breaking down barriers between people and God. Rick encourages those with disabilities to focus on their spirit and soul and not let their limitations stop them from fulfilling God’s calling. He shares stories of miracles he has witnessed, including the healing of a paralyzed woman in India and the subsequent salvation of her entire village.
Learn More About Team Jesus: http://tjmi.net/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Rick Willison from the Extreme Team. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Rick Willison (00:13):
Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on there,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
Daniel. Now we are here in Cambodia together. Yes, and we have been together for the last few days. We first went to Thailand and did a music festival there, and then we were in Laos together. And yesterday we had a seven hour, well, we had a one hour plane ride and then a seven hour van drive here. And it’s absolutely amazing that you are on a mission trip like this because you are blind, you can’t see.
Rick Willison (00:46):
That’s correct.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:49):
Tell me a little bit about your extreme team ministry and what you do. Okay,
Rick Willison (00:56):
It’s pretty simple really. About 25 years ago we started a ministry. I used to be a youth pastor and an associate pastor, and then my cousin Taylor Michaels passed away. She ran all of Magic Johnson’s companies and we saw the legacy she left behind and it was amazing because she would go on to South Central Los Angeles, find good kids and say, listen, if you will just pull straight A’s, I’ll put you through any college you want. And she did that over and over and over again. Hundreds of kids, she’s put through college and even to this day, magic Johnson has a Taylor Michaels Foundation where they use utilize that to put kids through college. And so it’s amazing. At her funeral, over 1200 people were there and they got up and they just spoke about her and how they spoke into her life. And magic actually was the one who oversaw her funeral that day.
(01:45):
Off of that, my brother and I at the same time, his name is Tim T Dog, we called him. We had this idea that we really need to do more. We need to leave some sort of legacy behind. I mean, I was in church ministry and I enjoyed that, but I was always very evangelistic. I wanted people to really own their relationship with Jesus, not just say, well, I’m a Christian because I’m an American, or, Hey, my parents go to church, so I’m a Christian, or I’ve been in church my whole life, so I’m a Christian. I want ’em to have a clear understanding of that. And so I started a ministry called Team Jesus Ministries Incorporated. And the team is an acronym, I’m a big acronym. You’re the Daniel King. I’m the king of acronym, so it’s an acronym, TEAM stands for Tell everyone about my and then Jesus Ministries.
(02:35):
And so we began to start that. We became a nonprofit, and from that we started our Extreme team. And the reason we started the Extreme team was because I was in church one Sunday, the pastor was preaching, this is all coming together as we’re God’s speaking to my heart about going to beside the church instead of in the church and working and helping the church from the outside instead of just inside. And he said, if you knew you could do anything and know you wouldn’t fail, what would you be doing? And for me, because of my background in athletics and martial arts and the things I’ve done, I thought, well, I’d be breaking things and showing God’s power of sin and it means more than just breaking things. Everything I do has an object lesson involved and everything represents something. And at the same time, my brother was calling me and saying, what do you think about these strength teams?
(03:25):
We’ve seen ’em around the power team, different teams like this. And I said, I’ve been having the same ideas. And we came up with the extreme team and it’s very purposeful because we’ve seen the other teams, but we want it to be a little bit more purposeful even in what we did. And so even when you look at the name on my shirt, the Extreme Team, the X is a cross, and the message of the cross is that Jesus died for our sins, was laid to rest, raised three days later has gone and is preparing a place for us in heaven. And all those who call upon his name shall be saved. And so that’s a really radical message. People are either drawn to it or repelled away from it. And so the T-R-E-M-E and then TEAM, it’s an acronym. It stands for taking a radical evangelistic message everywhere to equip all mankind. And then Daniel, even how long
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:17):
Did it take you to come up with that? About
Rick Willison (04:20):
Five seconds. I mean, seriously, God just gave it to us. And that’s how acronyms work in my head. It’s like I hear something I almost said, I see something, I hear something. And immediately even when I’m preaching, I’ll come up, my wife will come up afterwards and go, oh, I really like that acronym. And I’ll go, what acronym? And she’s like, when you said hope holding on praying, I said, oh, I didn’t even know I said that. And so it’s like these things come to me and I just spew ’em out. But even that, Daniel, you look at our colors and when we have our full outfit on, it makes a big X on us because we believe we’re a target and we’re going to show people how to get to Christ and the colors, the red, the black and the white and all that, that stands for something.
(05:03):
The black represents sin, the darkness of our hearts. The red is the blood of Christ, and the white is what he makes us. When we put our faith in him, if he makes us a new creation, white is snow. And so everything we do, we do with a purpose. You’ve seen me do some of this stuff. I let a baseball bat represent the devil’s arm and the grip he has on humanity. But we know through what Jesus did, the Devil’s grip was broken. And so I’ll snap that bat and then what do I do with it? Immediately I hold it up into a cross because that’s how Jesus did it with what he did on a cross. And so walls of bricks represent walls of sin like fear, pornography and morality, hatred, disobedience, whatever it is. And so we’re bringing down those walls. The same with boards, phone books can represent, materialism, can represent the devil’s book and how he wants to destroy everybody’s name in it.
(05:54):
So everything has purpose and reason behind it because just to go and break things and bend things and do that kind of stuff, that’s useless. That’s just foolishness, right? But what we do is we realize, God just put in our heart that if we can show people the gospel, and this is kind of funny because I’m a blind guy, but I’m very visual in the things I do. And so I thought, man, if we could just show people the gospel message, maybe that would help them understand it better. So they would hear it and see it as well, something here. So they see it as well. And what we found is because we’re able to do that and because we’re very purposeful that people when they go, wow, when they see these feats of strength, whether it’s breaking ice or if you bricks on fire and breaking ’em or just snapping aboard over your head or something, right? They’ll go, wow. And then we can just slip in the gospel message into their life and they can taste and see that the Lord is really good.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:53):
Let’s talk about excuses because people often have a lot of excuses and Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. And some people feel they’re too old. Some people think they’re too young. Some people think that they don’t like being in a hot country and they don’t want to get sweaty, but they have all these excuses and you have an excuse that a lot of people think, oh, that’s a pretty good excuse. If anyone’s accepted from the Great Commission, it would be the blind guy. I mean, how can he travel internationally? But here you are, you’re not letting that be an excuse that keeps you from doing what God wants. But how do you manage to navigate being blind and coming to different countries around the world?
Rick Willison (07:39):
Well, I love what you said because one of the things we use the phone book for is excuses. And I tell people, you might think you can’t see, I can’t hear, I don’t know enough theology. I’m afraid they just have so many excuses. And even when we started this ministry and I started, I had a lot of people say to me, Rick, what if you get lost? Or what if you fall off a stage? Or what if you get arrested or what if this or it’s, it’s like the chicken little right? The sky is falling, the sky is falling. And I thought, what if we take the what ifs and we change it to? So if SOIF, right? And so if is an acronym that hit me as well, because, so if I do God’s will for my life, I’ll receive blessings from God and I’ll be able to help people come to the Lord.
(08:26):
And so if stands for stepping out in faith, and so we say, so if I go instead of what if this happens, I go, so if I go, good things can happen. And so it’s very interesting because as I travel around the world, God just travels with me. And even when I go through airports, they have a program meet and assist. You see people being pushed around in wheelchairs. There’s people who will walk with me or now I’m with my good friends on the same flight. So we just walk and I’ll put my hand with you. You’ve helped me a lot. So I put my hand on your shoulder, you just walk. I follow you. I’m a step behind you. I can feel everything you’re doing. We walk along and it works out perfectly. When I’m on stage, I’ll usually have somebody like you or Daniel’s been up there with me and others and they’ll stand beside me kind of back or whatever.
(09:15):
And even if I’m doing stuff, I can get moving around. If I kind of get turned away from the crowd, they just kind of give me a little nudge or a little turn and I’m back on track. And so I utilize, I mean, I know blind people that are blind out here watching us. They’re going, you’re supposed to be independent. It’s like you are. But I also believe we have to be part of a team. And so I have no problem utilizing my friends around me to help me be effective with how I speak, what I do, how I get places. And I don’t take the chances where I can get lost, get hurt, or anything like that. As you’ve seen, I’ll wait on people. It’s not a problem. I’m not willing to walk out into traffic just because I got to get there first or prove my point. So it’s really just being a part of a team and utilizing each other and whether you can’t see good or whatever it is, I still think Jesus sent ’em out two by two. I don’t think there’s a problem with this being together and walking and doing stuff together.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:09):
Let’s talk about some of the feats of strength that you do and describe the feat for me and then tell me what the spiritual meaning is that you communicate to the crowd.
Rick Willison (10:23):
Okay, so the first one we already said a little bit about, but let’s just throw it back out. There is a baseball bat, American baseball bat. And what I do is I let that represent the devil of the arm, the devil of the arm, the arm of the devil. I can almost speak today. I let that represent the arm of the devil, and then I’ll show it by putting it around. You saw that, I think I choked you with it. You put it around the arm and you say, oh, people think that the devil wants to be their friend. It’s no big deal. Going to point out fun things to do. And I have the bat with my arm around the person, but then I show him, because my job is to show you in a physical way what’s going on around you spiritually. So I pull that bat around your neck and I start choking you.
(11:02):
I’ll lay on the ground, I’m going to beat you with it and all that, but it would stand for the devil’s arm. And then I show what Jesus did on that cross snap the devil’s grip, the arm of the devil off our life, and I’ll press it on my leg and I’ll press it until it breaks, and then I’ll hold it up as a cross. There’s other things. You look at all those walls we talked about, I’ll stack up walls of brick, and honestly, if they want to see some of this, they can go on our Facebook page and they can go just do a search for TJMI. That’s the team Jesus Ministries incorporated the number nine, the number eight, the year we started. So TJMI 98. And it will put you onto that page and there’s videos and all kinds of stuff, pictures even from this trip are up there.
(11:49):
And you can also go to tj mi.net on the, and there’s a bunch of stuff on there as well, and you can see who we are, but everything has to have a specific reason. So the walls, we stack up big walls of bricks and we break ’em. It could be a wall between you and God that maybe you are struggling with addictions or you’re relationship issues or fear or pornography, sexual immorality or disobedience. I mean, any and every sin can go into those walls. Now what’s interesting is when we go places, even here, I’m not just demonstrating how to break and bend things. I’ve picked a fight with the devil and I have people back home praying for us constantly because we go in specifically to destroy what the devil is doing to people. That whole, he is come to kill, steal, and destroy. And so when we do that, the devil fights back and you saw it because you brought it up to me the other day.
(12:46):
You’re like, well, that bat took longer. That’s because we were in front of a crowd that doesn’t know who Jesus is. And the devil doesn’t want them to think that God’s got any kind of power. And it really is a spiritual battle. You’ve seen some bats, bam, they snap, right? Others are a lot harder. Bricks, I’ve broken, and my guys too, we’ll hit a wall of bricks and they’ll all break except for the bottom one. And then we will clear it out. We want the whole wall done. The most phenomenal thing I’ve ever seen, well, a couple things, but I’ll just share. One is we were in South Africa, we were doing our outreach, and one of the guys, boom man, he hit a stack of bricks and it went all the way down to one brick. And a friend of mine, Brad, he happened to be preaching that night and that was left up for some reason.
(13:40):
We always normally take ’em all the way down, but it was left up. And so you have nine bricks broken, one not broken, and it’s way up above where there’s scaffolding to get to it and all that, and it’s sitting there. Most phenomenal thing is he spoke about how the devil thinks he has power. And he said, you know what? And he said, God wants to destroy the whole wall of sin out of your life and God will bring those walls down. And he said, even that wall over there, God could bring it down. He goes, that wall right there. And he pointed at it and that bottom brick broke and the whole thing fell to the ground. And it was amazing because it shows what’s going on spiritually around us. And so you look at everything we do aboard is barriers between us and God. Hot water bottle is persevering as you put your faith in Christ because they’re super hard to blow up until they explode. And the steel is bars of steel that people are behind in jail and how Jesus took care of that. And we bend them into the Christian fish. So everything is very representative.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:41):
One of the things I’ve loved hanging out with you is you have a nonstop store of jokes. Yes, sir. So give us a really good joke.
Rick Willison (14:50):
Oh, okay. Let’s just put me on the spot. That’s awesome. Okay, so that’s kind of funny. I’ll just give you a good, they’re dad jokes and some say bad jokes, but they’re dad jokes. Okay, so what would you call a line of 100 rabbits walking backwards?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:09):
What
Rick Willison (15:10):
A receding hairline. And for some guys out there going, that was more painful than funny, but it’s true.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:18):
Yeah. Alright, speak to people who maybe feel like they have some sort of disability in life that maybe someone’s blind, maybe they have some other disability, maybe it’s just a mental thing. What would you say to encourage them and to help them to achieve everything God’s called them to do?
Rick Willison (15:40):
I think that’s the key right there is where’s your focus, right? Is it on you? Because we can all have something. I mean, as handsome as Daniel is and talented, I’ve seen this guy, you
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:52):
Don’t know whether I’m handsome
Rick Willison (15:53):
Or not. I don’t know any ugly people either. So it’s all good. But as talented as he is and all that, there’s still things that you deal with and maybe nobody knows about it, maybe only your wife, whatever ministry partners, but there’s things you deal with and we all deal with something. Now, I don’t see well, and I often tell people, I’ve learned that some people are blind, some people are ugly. What do you get? I always make fun of my eyes. I always have fun with my eyes. I have a friend that he got in a surfing accident. He’s crippled from the neck down and yet the things he’s done in life, he’s gotten his bachelor’s degree, his master’s degree, he has a camp for disabled kids. He travels all over. Nick Voce is another one born with no arms, no legs, wanted to die, tried to drown himself.
(16:40):
And God pulled him out of that and said, no, the guy travels all over the world. Everybody listens to him because any child born like that in most countries is going to be snuffed out. They’re going to be put to death, right? Because it’s a terrible way to live, they think. But see, God still created us, and you have to get beyond the body and get to your spirit. Get to your soul and go, I am a man of God. I’m a woman of God. I can do great things. And so you can’t let eyes or hearing or being in a wheelchair or anything else stop you because you can still do something for God. Because God created Daniel, each and every one of us with a destiny and a purpose. God does not make any junk. He doesn’t make any garbage. He doesn’t make any throwaways, he doesn’t make any mistakes.
(17:27):
And it’s because of sin in the world that we have disease and sickness and all that. And it wasn’t of God’s doing, it was of man’s doing, deciding that we’d have sin in the world when Adam and Eve wanted to be like God. And so we struggle with that. We suffer with that sometimes, but we should never, ever let it stop us because even with me, when I go into other countries and people find out I’m blind, they don’t know what to do with me. They’re like, how can you be blind and do what you do? How can you be blind? It’s like I’m blind. My mind’s not broken. My mouth works. And even if you can’t speak or you struggle, man, you can write. There’s some way God wants to use you. And so you just dig in deep and you go, you know what?
(18:14):
I’m not a loser. I’m not a piece of garbage. I’m not a piece of trash. I was created with a dessan purpose. I’m going to figure out what that is. I’m going to pray. I’m going to fast. I’m going to talk to God and I’m going to let him open the doors to what he wants me to do, and then I’m going to step into it because if I listen to the world, I’m sitting at home, I’m collecting a government check, I’m eating Twinkies and getting fat and sassy, that’s my life. Instead, I’m out. Over the last 25 years, I’ve traveled around this world. I’ve been in a lot of countries, a lot of places I’ve been a part of leading over 300,000 people to the Lord just through our ministry, not including all these with you and collaborating with others and what goes on there. And if God I figured can use a blind guy like me, he can use everybody. Nothing special about it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:01):
And so in all these years of ministry, I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of miracles, a lot of testimonies. Let’s finish with a story, something amazing that you’ve seen God do.
Rick Willison (19:14):
Oh my goodness, so many. But let’s go back to 2008. Okay, we’ll just jump back there. This was an amazing trip. We were in India, we were in Chennai, Ronnie Pet, Valore City. We’re doing outreaches, we’re doing festivals at night. And every night we go down into the crowd and pray. And things we saw was a man delivered from demonic influence. And I fully expected as this screech came out of him, there was some cattle nearby for them to run into the cattle, and those cattle would run into traffic and get run over. I don’t know, but like the pig thing, right? But we also saw, I prayed for a kid who had a golf ball size thing on his head, and it was a tumor. And I prayed, God, it’s not big, long 5, 10, 20 minute prayers. It was just asking God to heal it.
(20:01):
And he had put his faith in Jesus, and I felt that just disappear under my hand. But the one that sticks out the most was a gal named Priscilla, and it was the same trip and she was so excited. She wanted us to come out to her little village area. She’s a wonderful woman of God. She helps out as much as she can, but she’d been hit by a vehicle three or four years earlier, and she was just crippled up. Her feet were all twisted. She couldn’t walk. She was paralyzed. I mean, it was all this stuff. And so we said, yeah, we’ll come out. And so we came out the whole team, and as we got out there and we started talking to her, they brought her out. They sat her in a chair and we were talking to her and one of the ladies, her name was Karen actually, she was a nurse.
(20:46):
She said, can we pray for her? And I said, yeah. And I had one of the team members pray. I said, why don’t you pray for it? And this gal bless her heart, because we’re Americans, we’re from the West, and we start praying these prayers and she started doing the same thing. Lord, please, if it’s your will, if you want to, we know you can just heal Priscilla. I know she probably won’t get healed today, but I know some days she’ll be dancing with you in heaven. And I stopped the prayer and I said, no. I go, that’s not how God tells us to pray. We’re apologizing for God to do a miracle before he even does it because we don’t think he’s going to do it. I said, we have to pray with authority. And I grabbed the pastor that was there because he was translating already this prayer from English to Tamil.
(21:31):
And I said, will you pray? Will you show these guys authority and pray and ask God to heal this woman? And I don’t know what he said because I don’t speak Tamil, but he prayed with boldness and confidence and he got done. And I was standing right there, and I said, Priscilla, stand up. Now. I don’t see good, but I know because I felt where her feet and all that. She stood up, okay, she’s paralyzed. She stood up and I said, I go, come to me. And Karen was right by me, the nurse. And so I put her right in front of me. I said, come to Karen. And every time she was walking, everybody’s like, wow, wow. And I kept moving. Karen back until Purcell had walked probably 25, 30 feet. And then she gave Karen a big hug, and then she sat down. I told her, no, get up.
(22:19):
I go, you’re healed. Celebrate. That was an amazing miracle. But this was the true miracle because all physical miracles are temporary, right? Because you die. Even Lazarus had to die again, right? We turned around, her entire village was out there watching this. And that gave us an opportunity to say, look, here’s who did this. Here’s who God is. Here’s who Jesus is, and the reason for miracles is to share the salvation message. And we turn and we watch this whole village put their faith in Jesus. That was a true miracle. Now, fast forward, as we’re back in the vehicle and we’re heading back, one of the guys, young guy, he says, Rick, he goes, because we’re celebrating, right? It’s awesome. He goes, Rick, he goes, you don’t understand. He goes her leg. I mean, you might thought that was some cool miracle, but her feet were all twisted up still.
(23:07):
And I go, I told him I won’t use his name, but I said, Hey man. I go, that’s a bigger miracle because she’s paralyzed and you’re saying she’s walking on twisted up feet. That’s awesome. Okay, so now fast forward a year, a year later, one of the guys that was with us, it was a guy from Passion for People. Brett Butcher his ministry. It was one of the guys that used to work with him. He was back in that same place, and him and his wife wanted to go see Prius. So they went to where she lived, she saw the vehicle pull up, and she saw Michael get out. This guy she ran, didn’t walk, didn’t crawl, didn’t have anybody carry her. She rant and lept into his arms and was praising God because her feet, her ankles, her legs, everything was 100%. Again, amazing thing to see. And the village was still all saved, still worshiping God, still doing God’s will for their life. And it was amazing. It was awesome.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:04):
What a great testimony. Well, if you’re listening and you have a church, you want to invite Rick to come minister, or if you want him to come to a school assembly or you want to invite him to come to your country, I encourage you to go find his Facebook page and find out more information about him. And give me the Facebook page one more
Rick Willison (24:26):
Time. So it’s TJ MI, the number nine, number eight, TJ MI 98. Just do a search and it’ll come up Team Jesus Ministries in the Extreme team. So pretty easy.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:37):
Awesome. Thank you Rick, so much for being on the Evangel of
Rick Willison (24:40):
Podcast. You bet. Thank you, buddy.
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Michael Sin and the Fourth Dimension | Impacting Asia with Music from Malaysia
In this podcast episode, Evangelism Coach Daniel King interviews Michael Sin from the band The Fourth Dimension, based in Malaysia. The band combines gospel and secular music to draw in crowds and share the gospel message. They travel around Asia, performing live concerts and also offer workshops on music arrangement and instruments. Michael shares how he felt called by God to take his music ministry outside of the church walls and reach the ends of the earth. He discusses the challenges of evangelizing in a majority Muslim nation and the restrictions on public evangelism. Despite these challenges, the band has seen a positive response from young people in churches and has witnessed a transformation in the spiritual landscape of countries like Thailand, Myanmar, and Cambodia.
Learn More About Michael Sin and T4D: https://www.facebook.com/T4Dministries/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited to tell people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Michael Sin from a wonderful band from the nation of Malaysia called The Fourth Dimension. Thank you so much for being with me today.
Michael Sin (00:16):
Thank You for having us here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:17):
Now, tell me a little bit about what you do.
Michael Sin (00:21):
Well, basically, the T4D Ministry, it’s a music ministry, so we travel around to Asia countries to do live concerts, gospel concerts, but as in many gospel concerts, if it is this purely gospel concerts, people won’t come, especially in these parts of the world. So we mix gospel concerts with secular music. So with that, we draw the crowd in and then we inject the gospel message. So we travel around the ASEAN region doing live gospel concerts, and if an opportunity pops up, we will do worship workshop, drum workshop, keyboard workshop, music arrangement workshops and stuff like that. So we’ve been doing that for about seven and a half years.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:05):
Wow. What an amazing ministry and music. Thank you that you have. And so it’s really an honor to serve the Lord with you. We’ve just completed same
Michael Sin (01:14):
Here,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:14):
A couple of days in Thailand, and now we’re in the nation of Laos, and it’s just so beautiful to see what God is doing. Tell me a little bit about how you got started doing this.
Michael Sin (01:27):
Oh, well, I was pastoring a church back in the late 2010 or so. That’s when I heard a voice and God says, I’m going to take you out of the church four walls and take you into the church without walls to reach to the ends of the earth, to the end Samaria, and to use your gifts and your talents to reach out to the world. So it was like asking God, what’s my gift and what’s my talent? And God says, music and I don’t have a band. And God says, I will give you a band. And that’s how the fourth dimension, the members came together by God’s divine appointment and we’ve got the whole jigsaw together and we clicked and reformed the band. And in 2013, somehow we got invited by Pastor Manop to a music festival in Thailand, Bette. And we made that a gospel music festival instead of just a secular music festival. And that’s how IGMF started back in December, 2014. And that’s what T 40 has been doing, actively participating with the IGMF movement. And while we are not in ministry, we also do corporate geeks back home in Malaysia. Well, to earn money and pay for fa.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:52):
And so the whole band is working on secular jobs? Yes,
Michael Sin (02:57):
We do. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:57):
Then also coming as the opportunities come.
Michael Sin (03:00):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:01):
Wow. That’s right. Now you are from Malaysia, which is a majority Muslim nation, and so there’s actually a lot of restrictions on what you’re able to do. How do you reach out in that context?
Michael Sin (03:19):
Well, back home it is okay to evangelize as long as you stay within your four walls of the church compound. So you can have evangelistic rally in stadiums as long as the rally stays inside the stadium, and you can invite friends into the stadium or the church and do the evangelistic work within that compound on that basis, yes, you’re free to host any rallies, gospel concerts, and evangelistic meetings outside that you can’t.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:54):
And you have been doing events inside churches. And do you find that the young people like the music that you bring?
Michael Sin (04:02):
Oh yes. Like the church that I am attending right now, it is very next generation oriented
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:10):
In What church are you at?
Michael Sin (04:12):
Well, it’s in the Malay language. It’s called the Sid ur. It’s S-I-B-K-L in English. It is translated to Bono Evangelical Missions Church, BEM.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:25):
I’m so excited to hear about what God is doing here in Asia. There’s such a huge population here, so many people that need to hear some good news. And so what do you feel is God’s heart for Asia during this time?
Michael Sin (04:44):
I think not just Asia. I think God’s heart is for every part of the world. But since we are in Asia, I’ll just speak for Asia, and I think a lot of things are happening. And as far as the International Gospel Music Festival movement is concerned, we have been doing this since December, 2014, and we have seen a lot of things being transformed, like the landscape, the spiritual landscape of parts of Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia. Next week we are moving on to Cambodia. We are seeing things beginning to change, and the churches are more bold to proclaim Christ. It’s not a shame thing to say that I’m a believer because it’s cool to say that, Hey, I’m a believer. It’s cool for a Thai guy to come into a mall like this. Sorry, this is Tian. Okay. And to say, yeah, I’m a believer. I worship God and I’m not ashamed of it.
(05:48):
If you look back 15, 10, 15 years ago, if I’m a Christian here, I had rather not profess, I’ll just keep quiet. But today you see a lot of Christians and churches getting more bold to actually step forward and to profess their faith and to even evangelize and start to tell people, Hey, you got to have some of these too. And a lot of training is being conducted. People like you guys and other missionary bodies that are coming in and out of Asia to Asia, a lot of work is being put in. And I think it’s really awesome. And as far as we are concerned, the fourth dimension, we hope to move in the music landscape. Now music, we can do the very conventional way. Piano, hymns, again, we have moved out of that. We have got the drums coming in, and now we are moving out of that. We’ve got digital music coming in where we use sequences and backing tracks, and we use do software, and we do video, music, video and stuff like that. That’s what we are hoping to empower the local churches here to use technology in their worship session, to produce video music videos of their churches, of the new songs that they write, to write new songs of your native language. Don’t just sing what big names sing, sing Thai gospel songs, sing Cambodian gospel songs.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:32):
And so have you been writing some of your own songs?
Michael Sin (07:35):
No, we have not. We have not.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:40):
I think it’ll come, God will give you some that will be a hit all over the world,
Michael Sin (07:44):
Kind of maybe moving towards that well as the spirit leads. But somehow maybe because we are so occupied with drawing the crowd in and then injecting the gospel, it has been working pretty well so far. So maybe that is why for us, there was no immediate need or calling to really to come up with our own materials. Maybe one day we certainly look forward to it. And as the spirit leads, and yeah, I mean, unless the lot builds, we would just belaboring in vain. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:23):
Let’s God now explain to me the meaning of the name, the fourth dimension.
Michael Sin (08:27):
Oh, that’s interesting. See, the fourth dimension is the spiritual dimension, the three dimension, the width, the depth, and the height is that the three D is what you can see, what you can touch. You know that this is solid. You don’t need faith to believe that this is a solid box. But the fourth dimension is the spiritual dimension that you don’t see, you can’t physically touch. You’ve got to experience it. You’ve got to encounter it. So we hope that the songs that we do will touch your heart, not just make you dance, but to also touch your heart and to impact you, and to make you reflect on the lyrics that you’ve been singing and to let it really sink deep in and to really get into the heart of hearts and let those tears just roll down. I mean, you can’t make tears. And if I see you have tears, I thank the Lord.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:30):
Yeah. Well, I so love your heart and I feel it is an honor to serve the Lord with you. Likewise. And it’s so wonderful to meet you. Likewise. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism
Michael Sin (09:39):
Podcast. Thank so much. Thank you so much for this opportunity to share what we do, and we look forward to do more in the days to come.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:46):
Amen. All of Asia for Jesus.
Michael Sin (09:48):
Amen, sir. And all of
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:49):
Jesus for Asia.
Michael Sin (09:50):
Bless you. Amen. Bless you too.
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Manop Moonsri | Reaching the Youth of Asia with Music
In this episode of the Evangelism Podcast, Daniel King interviews Manop Moonsri from Thailand about the International Gospel Music Festival. Manop explains that the festival started in 2014 and aims to reach young people in Thailand and other countries through music. The festival takes place in shopping malls, attracting a broad audience, including those who may not attend traditional evangelistic crusades. Manop believes that music is a powerful tool for reaching young people because almost everyone listens to music. We talk about the opportunities and restrictions in different countries, such as Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, China, Malaysia, Singapore, and the Philippines.
Connect with Manop: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=501520132
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Manop from Thailand. Thank you for joining the Evangelism Podcast.
Manop (00:12):
Yeah, and it’s good to be on your TV program.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:20):
We are in the nation of Cambodia right now. Yesterday we were in Laos, and then a few days ago we were in Thailand. And in each place we are doing a international gospel music festival, which is a vision that God has given you to help reach people for Jesus. So tell me a little bit, what is the International Gospel Music Festival?
Manop (00:47):
Yeah. International Gospel Music Festival started in Ette in 2014, but before that I already do a lot of music festival with different name. But then in puke I invite more bands from international, from different countries like Singapore, Malaysia, Korea, America, and NAMI Beer and a few other countries. So from Pke, I felt that this is a good method to reach out to the people in Thailand and other countries and the location that we choose with the Pke or in Bangkok or in Chiang Mai or in other places we use shopping mall because in the shopping mall there are many groups of people come to shopping. And the target, I mean of course the main target are the young generation. And I feel that with different bands and different messages can reach out to a broad group of people that some of them doesn’t go to the traditional kind of crusade or evangelistic crusade, but for the music festival, they are okay to listen and then to participate.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:08):
And so I really like this strategy. You’re taking the music festival into the mall, which is an attraction point for the entire city. Everyone knows where it is. Everyone comes there for shopping, and you are deliberately attracting young people who like music. And have you had some pushback from maybe older church members, more traditional members? What does the church think about this unique method of reaching?
Manop (02:41):
In some city, the leaders are very open and they understand the young generation, but in some city, they’re still not quite understand why we do what we do. And a lot of them feel that it’s wasting of time. But after we did one festival in that city, then they start to see that in the evangelist thing, we lost the generation between 15 years old and 25. But all these people, they come for our festival first, leaders start to see the important of having a music festival reaching out to this group of people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:24):
Why do you think music is such an important tool for reaching young people?
Manop (03:30):
Almost every one of them will listen to music, whether pop or rock or reggae or hip hop or whatever style. International gospel music festival is not a gospel in a type of music, but it’s wider, a broader and all kinds of musics that in this world I can say.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:54):
Now you have been the go-to person in this part of Asia for production. You’ve helped Franklin Graham with some of his production. You’ve been with Dr. Billy Wilson from Empowered 21, and you have technical expertise. How did you get started in this area of production?
Manop (04:19):
Actually, I was study in technical college before I went to Bible school in Singapore. And after that I went to join YWAM and then come back to Thailand to start church planting. But while we are doing a lot of outreaches, I felt that we need a better system to do a better job for outdoor. So in 2000, in about 2001, I started to get into a more production because at that time I felt God is calling me out to the marketplace. So starting from a full-time pastor, get into a 10 making, we call business for the kingdom. And I started the production company to help with a group organization or churches that need support for production and keep upgrading our system until we become a distributor for speakers brand am mate from Spain. And we also doing some secular job just to get enough fun to continue our ministry. That’s how I started.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:38):
But really the core of what your heart is is evangelism.
Manop (05:44):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:45):
How do you merge the music with evangelism
Manop (05:53):
In a traditional way of evangelistic meeting? We just have worship preaching and then other call. And a lot of people, I mean for some people I say 15 to 25, they don’t want to participate much in that kind of a traditional crusade. So in the secular music festival, in Tale or in Asia, they like to have lots of bands line up maybe 10 to 12 bands, and it’s for the long period. So I get the same idea and I add the messages or the testimony or the preaching in between the band so that the people don’t feel like, oh, I’m come here just to listen to the speaker speak about what they want to speak about their God or something like that. But the difference is when the band, when they’re singers, the singers that they shouting their testimony or even telling the gospel, they don’t feel like, oh, I got to listen to this speaker. Or even you have another speaker come in between the band. They still don’t have the kind of, what do you call it? They still feel easy to listen to it because they expect to listen to the band after these speakers. So in between 10 to 15 minutes we slot in speakers.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:31):
So instead of having a one hour preacher, you do music and then 10 minutes testimony, then music, then a little message, and then music, and then give people a chance to respond.
Manop (07:45):
So we break the message messages into small, smaller one in between the band. In a shopping mall, there are, if we do like six, for example, 6:00 PM or 4:00 PM until 10:00 PM there’s a lot of people that walk in and out. They might sit for the band that they like for one hour and they might walk away. So every hour there’s a new audience come in to the mall. So having a speaker speak 10 to 15 minutes, it is a slot. Releasing out to the new people is not the same audience for the whole day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:22):
And throughout the day you’ll have maybe hundreds, even thousands of people come through and hear the music, even if they’re not all there at one time, they’re passing through. And sometimes the music fills the entire mall. Even the people who are shopping on the other side of the mall, they hear what is happening
Manop (08:43):
In some of the mall, if the light is banned, they’ll stop for maybe one hour and inspect the whole area. So it depend on the band as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:59):
Yeah. Let’s talk about Asia. There are millions of people in this part of Asia and it’s a huge harvest field. There’s lots of people that need Jesus. What do you think God wants to do here in Asia over the next 10 years?
Manop (09:21):
I mean, from my own opinion, I believe that the young generation, we come to know Christ more because their heart is open. And I can see, and even in my local church, the majority of people in my church are 80% of young generation. So I believe that God is bringing in the young generation to the churches and we have to go out and take them in, not waiting in a church for them to come in. So what I do is, apart from the music festival that I do, I also have a youth festival, one day festival where we bring in leaders and youth to come for the training, stir them up, and then send them out the coming February, we have one in Bangkok. And after the one day, one full day, the training or the festival, we will send them out to do prison ministries to do a smaller festival in other cities.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:31):
And I heard you’re actually bringing in Planet Shakers with Russell Evans?
Manop (10:36):
Yes. Planet Shakers have been coming to Thailand almost every year before Covid.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:42):
And so people here love them,
Manop (10:45):
People like the band. So that one day on the 20th of February, we’ll have something from 10:00 AM until 10:00 PM and then the last session will be Planet Shake concert.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:59):
Wow. I believe that will have a big impact.
Manop (11:03):
Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:04):
How did you first come to know Christ? What’s your testimony? And then how did you develop a heart for ministry? Okay,
Manop (11:13):
I was grown up in the Buddhist family and when I was 12 years old, I got sponsors from World Vision because my family cannot help me to study. So World Vision adopt me and I go to church. So I accepted a lot during my time in with World Vision.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:43):
And then you went to ywam
Manop (11:45):
And after World Vision I graduated from high school and then I went to YWAM in Penang. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:55):
Are there opportunities for evangelists to come to Asia and to work here? Would you invite people to come?
Manop (12:05):
Yes. So there’s evangelists, it’s depend on their ki. So if they do a smaller group or big festival or music, they’re most welcome to join us in our festival in each month.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:25):
Wonderful. Your vision ultimately is to be doing festivals every month throughout different parts of Asia or
Manop (12:36):
Yes, hopefully. But to prepare for that is take a little bit of time. So I do it in different country and each country we network with a local church and with the people that have the same heart and then they do all the grow population and we will go in for three days festival and then move to another country.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:56):
Let’s talk about the unique challenges in different countries. Done a lot in a bunch, and every country has opportunities and every country also has restrictions. So we’ll start with Thailand, the country that you’re from, what is the opportunity and what type of restrictions are there
Manop (13:16):
In Thailand? There’s a lot of opportunity. For example, the mall now, they understand what we do and they open anytime for us to go in. So the problem is we don’t have enough people or enough resources to do all the shopping mall in other cities.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:36):
And you’d like to do many different cities.
Manop (13:40):
I like to partner with the local church. So if the local church ready to accept us, we will go in and help them to prepare and continue. Because if I go to the city where there’s no use as well, so I go to the church, to the city where the church are ready to do the follow-up after our event.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:03):
Now, a few years ago you were doing stuff in Myanmar? Yes. Now there’s been a change in government there. Is it possible to do something in Myanmar even
Manop (14:11):
Now? We can go back anytime, yeah. Okay. Because we are not having problem with the soldiers or any politics in Myanmar.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:20):
And we were just in Laos and they gave us some guidelines on what could be done there. But yet they still allowed the music festival.
Manop (14:31):
The music festival there. They’re still allowed. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:34):
Now we are here in Cambodia. We’re going to see tomorrow night. What
Manop (14:41):
In Cambodia? If you get a permit from the local provincial or the mayor, you are fine to do it. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:49):
And what about Vietnam?
Manop (14:52):
Vietnam, we working with local church and they apply for their own permit. So Vietnam is another country that is starting to open more for the gospel
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:05):
And Franklin Graham was just there and had a tremendous event. Just thousands of people came and it would be really wonderful to see God open up the door. Now China, have you ever gone to China is probably
Manop (15:20):
China. There’s a lot of underground churches that we network with, but we haven’t done any music festival there yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:29):
What about Malaysia?
Manop (15:31):
Malaysia? We can go anytime.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:33):
And have you done work in Singapore or Indonesia?
Manop (15:37):
We did Philippines, Malaysia,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:41):
Philippines. It is totally open. Yeah. You can do anything? Yes. Wow. Well, I really believe that God’s eye is on Asia and that we are going to see a great harvest of souls come into the kingdom of God throughout all of Asia. And I think God is also going to raise up powerful Asian evangelists like you. Amen. Who have a heart to reach this part of the world for Jesus.
Manop (16:07):
Praise God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:08):
So thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
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His Pop | Redeeming Music and Culture for Jesus
Today on the Evangelism Podcast, Daniel King interviews DSeven, a guest from South Korea who is part of a band called His Pop. The band aims to use popular music and dancing in the KPop tradition to share the gospel and to bring revival to the music culture. Their vision is to bring popular culture back to Christ and the kingdom of God. They want to connect with the youth and use their music ministry to help young people know more about Jesus.
Connect with HisPop on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hispop_official/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited to tell people about Jesus today. I have very special guests with me, His Pop. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Dseven (00:12):
Hello. Thank you
Translator (00:13):
So much. Thank you for inviting us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
Now you are from South Korea and in South Korea, K-pop is very popular, but you have taken the popularity of K-pop and brought it into the kingdom of God and you call your band his pop. What does that mean?
Dseven (00:38):
Popular culture.
Translator (00:45):
So our is, we want to use his popular music to talk about the gospel and then to bring revival to the music culture.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:58):
And so how did you have the vision to start His Pop?
Translator (01:14):
Because at first there’s a lot of culture right now about music, about many things. So our vision and we want to bring that culture back to Christ, to his kingdom.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:28):
How can we bring the kingdom of God into popular culture?
Translator (02:01):
So yeah, our vision also how to bring to the kids kingdom that actually of course when we doing a music of course about quality, about the skills is very important. But we want to use our life to worship him first. That what is our mission to do so that we to the music as well, that we want to bring that to the basic that is to lead Christ.
Dseven (02:30):
Okay.
Translator (02:43):
So we want to use this mission, our ministry to connect with the youth, with the young generation that they can come and then they can know about Jesus more so that we have the heart for the youth. A lot that,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:00):
So how did you start this ministry?
Translator (03:09):
Even like now you see we all look really shining like that, but not we just start at the small trade. We start at the small trade. That’s time. We have only eight people and then the top leader who lead the team, his pop that he had the vision and they just like three people and then worship, ship the Lord together in Korean actually the top leader, the leader who lead us, he actually, he is the producer. Yeah,
Dseven (03:55):
Speaking in Korean
Translator (03:58):
Yeah. He used to make a lot of music for Korean music
Dseven (04:06):
Speaking in Korean
Translator (04:09):
And then he meet Jesus, he met Jesus and then he started to have a vision and so he started to doing a ministry like this. And then he also gather some B Boy
Dseven (04:28):
Speaking in Korean
Translator (04:29):
About the street dancer a lot. So why he bring them together, together, together. Also, he originally Bboy as well. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:39):
Wow. And now you’re living in Thailand. You’ve come as a missionary from South Korea to Thailand and you have some dancers from Thailand who are working with you. How did you decide to leave South Korea and come to Thailand?
Dseven (05:11):
Speaking in Korean
Translator (05:11):
2009. First time in Thailand, only just for the
Dseven (05:21):
Speaking in Korean
Translator (05:33):
So yeah, at first it just, his boss come from soccer, Korea for a charter mission for one month, and then they got a vision and heart for Thai people. That’s why they commit to come to Thailand because back in Korea, actually they are full-time surf in ministry. So that’s why they all come together in Thailand. And this year is the 11 years already.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:14):
Wow, wow. I’m so impressed with your passion for God and your heart to reach people for Jesus. It’s so beautiful to see. Thank you. And I believe that God is looking at Asia right now and God wants to see a great harvest of souls. He wants to see many people in Asia come into the kingdom of God. What do you hope to see God do over the next 10 years in this part of the world?
Translator (06:59):
Actually as a human, maybe we see, oh, it’s a lot of whole ing and there’s so many things that bake style and there’s a lot of idols right now in this
Dseven (07:16):
Speaking in Korean
Translator (07:21):
And right now we are in the fallen world and there’s a lot of things that turn into things that never be before. So yeah, of course we expect only on God because of right now even everything is going down and they seem hopeless, but because we trust in the Lord. So that’s why we try to try our best to prepare and so do many things. The one who can change is not us, but only God can change. So that’s why we want to step by step from that and hope that God, we do one day in his time.
Dseven (08:28):
Speaking in Korean
Translator (08:28):
Right now we are living in.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:31):
Wow. Well, it is such an honor to serve God with you. I am so happy to meet you, and thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. God
Dseven (08:43):
Speaking in Korean
Translator (08:46):
Thank you so much.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:47):
Thank you so much. That’s good.
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Bangladesh
“It is 4:15, we have to turn off our sound system,” a pastor at our village campaign in ********* told me. Our worship team had just finished singing simple Christian tunes like “This is the Day that the Lord has Made” and “Hallelujah.”
“Why?” I asked, “I am ready to preach to the crowd.”
“Because it is time for Muslim prayers and we do not want to offend them,” the pastor explained to me, “Five times a day the Muslims call people to pray from the Mosque that is next to where we are holding our Gospel campaign. If we make noise during their call to prayer, we might offend them and they will force us to shut down the meeting.”
Our village campaigns took place on the front lines of Gospel work. We were standing on the enemy’s turf trying to take new territory. We were in a majority Muslim country. While I was there, the war between Israel and Gaza was raging. The head of Hamas called for a world-wide day of anger and Jihad against Jews and Christians. In the capital there were demonstrations where mobs of people burned the Israeli flag and the American flag. Thank you for praying for my safety!
Once the Muslim prayers were over, I began preaching. My sermon had four main points: God Created You, God Loves You, God Saves You, and God Heals You. When I gave the altar call hundreds of people prayed with me for salvation right in the shadow of the Mosque!
The amazing miracle is that on the same day when Islam was calling for anger, we saw the love of Jesus manifested in a powerful way. It was on a Friday. Not only was it the day of our biggest attendance at the campaign, but it was also the day when we saw the most people get saved.
Our team did two village-size Gospel campaigns. Each campaign was three days long and also included a conference for discipling young people. We deliberately kept the events small because we did not want to attract too much attention. Even though the events were small, they will produce a big impact. The ministry we are working is sending a pastor to each of these villages to plant a new church so that the new believers can be discipled.
Each of these villages have never heard about Jesus before. Before we came, there were no churches and no Christian believers in these villages. But now there are!
A total of 1,211 decision cards were filled out. Many people were saved and every night people testified they were healed.
Bishop Albert | Free Christian Churches
On today’s Evangelism Podcast I interview Bishop Albert from the Free Christian Churches of Bangladesh. Bishop Albert shares about the growth of Christianity in Bangladesh, which is a predominantly Muslim nation. In a nation with a population of almost two hundred million people, the church has grown from 175,000 to almost 600,000 Christians since the country gained independence from Pakistan. However, Christians still make up only 0.3% of the population. We ask people to pray for the church in Bangladesh.
Learn more about the Free Churches of Bangladesh: https://fccbchurch.org/
Transcription:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Bishop Albert Mirdha from Bangladesh. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Bishop Albert (00:15):
Thank you brother Daniel to meet you this morning.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:19):
Yeah, so we are here in the nation of Bangladesh and God is moving. It is so beautiful to see what God is doing here. Tell me some about what God is doing in this nation.
Bishop Albert (00:33):
Yeah, actually you see that Bangladesh is a new nation, about 52 years old, independent from Pakistan and it was third largest Muslim nation in the world and church was very tiny in Bangladesh after the liberation. But anyhow, the God has started to pour his spirit in the country of Bangladesh and from 175,000 when we are free from Pakistan and until now it is almost 600,000 Christians. So it is couple of times, hundred times increased means that is from the newborn babies in the country and the church is growing by his fire. So churches establishing in the country,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
What would you say is the total population of Bangladesh?
Bishop Albert (01:25):
200 million people in the country and only 0.2% say you can say that Christianity in the country.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:34):
Wow. So I was reading some statistics and something like 91% of the population is Muslim, 92 7%, 8% is Hindu and then 0.2%
Bishop Albert (01:53):
Percent Christian
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:54):
Is Christian
Bishop Albert (01:55):
And this very
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:57):
Small
Bishop Albert (01:58):
Percentage.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:59):
But in the midst of this, it seems like there is a great harvest that God loves Bangladesh very much and Jesus is doing many wonderful things. Can you tell us some about what you see Jesus doing here?
Bishop Albert (02:13):
Actually, look, gospel came in this part of the country 500 years back, but mostly it was in Indian side and very few people has moved to the east part of India. I mean it’s a former India,
(02:30):
But the thing is it’s just a communication problem as well as it was not preached by our own people because we didn’t have any local Christians. The Jisu came and also some Catholic missionaries came and Orthodox people came but it didn’t need to work properly because they work in a very few areas. But actually in 1947 to 1971, mostly the church started to begin on the feet and 1971 when was independent and then there so many missionaries came from the west as well from US Canada and a part of Asia also. And then evangelism started and I think 72 to 80 it was, I mean, is a blooming of our churches because so many churches, new churches established in the country, like our church also, I mean started in 1984, but the missionary from Swedish free mission came or Swedish. Pentecostal churches came in 1970. So this is the way actually the after liberation in Bangladesh, 1971, the church has started to establish the kingdom of the country.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:39):
Now you’re leading the free Christian churches of Bangladesh. And in back in 1972, how many churches were there?
Bishop Albert (03:48):
Actually, 1970, the missionary came from Sweden
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:52):
To support
Bishop Albert (03:53):
To humanitarian areas because we had a tidal board in 1970, 15th of May, 15th of November. And then the missionary came here with social help. And then after a couple of months, just four months later, we had a liberation. We were started or begin in March, 1971. So then all missionaries leap again to their own country and then they came back after liberation in 1972. So this 72 to 1984, there is no mission work started by our missionaries, which Pentecostal missionaries jointly and individually scattered. They work. But lately they decide that they will start a mission organization called Free Christian Churches of Bangladesh. And this is a Pentecostal church from Swedes Pentecost Church. So we started in 84 and then 84 until, I mean now we have so many churches, we have 474 churches with 54,000 people all are from newborn babies. So I mean from 1970 to 1984, we are not existing. That time we didn’t start our mission work. So mission work started in 1984. Wow.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:11):
Let’s talk some about your testimony. How did you become a believer and how did you know that you were called to be a pastor and to lead churches?
Bishop Albert (05:23):
Actually, see, I born in a Christian family. My father was a pastor as seldom he was the mission school teacher of churches of God, US and 1972, actually I came into the ministry when I was fresh young around 15 or 14 plus almost close to 15 years old. I started to evangelize people of our country and I started to give the trust and sharing word of God. This is the way actually 72, I engaged into the evangelism Since then until now I’m voluntarily serving to my Lord.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:00):
Wow, what a blessing. And I had the opportunity this week to see the beautiful school that you have up north and I was so impressed with the children. They were so well-behaved and it was so beautiful to see the vision that God has given you
Bishop Albert (06:22):
Actually, I mean education is the key of development in anywhere else, socially or spiritually. Without education you’re going to do anything. Our church people are very illiterate and they do not have an opportunity to send their kids to the schools because school is very, very expensive. In Bangladesh, you have to pay everything. It’s not free. So I thinking I was praying to God in seventies that I will help to the kids with education if it is an opportunity God given to me. But finally I got this opportunity, 1998, to establish this home of peace that you have seen anywhere there. Actually these children are from orphanage back down. They’re single parents, they are very poor. Marginalist background of the new believers, our main motto to give them education and they can discover the truth of life and truth of heaven and then they will work that independently in the church will be self-supported in the future because the leadership will come from there.
(07:29):
That’s the reason actually 570 children you have seen from different areas and different ethnic group they’re studying over there. So our main goal to make them understand and also give them education and they can stand on their own feet. Otherwise they can be the physical laborer in the field or they can be the domestic worker or they can be the trafficking somewhere else. That’s the reason I know we have started and they’re, well actually they are taught like that. They knows how to behave with the field and usually the 570 kids in the children, I mean in the home of peace and it didn’t found that the noise is there, but they’re playing with joy and they’re very happy to be there. And I mean over 500 children already graduated from this place and they’re now in different areas of life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:21):
Wow. Let’s talk about the future. I met your son John, and he has the same calling on his life that rests upon your life. And I was so impressed with your son. He went and studied in Canada, he went
Bishop Albert (08:38):
To the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:38):
United States and studied and he’s very smart and he could have a job anywhere in the world, but he feels like God has called
Bishop Albert (08:48):
Him
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:49):
To be here in Bangladesh. And you and John and the pastors in this movement have come together and put together a vision for the next 10 years. What do you hope to see God do
Bishop Albert (09:04):
Here? Yeah, actually we are so thankful to our loving Lord and also John, I mean because we thought that he will be staying in USA because he studied in US in Florida.
(09:15):
But after completion, his study and after graduation same day, he returned home and he said that we tried to push him to stay in us, but he denied. And he said, no, that’s my calling to go back home and also I will serve over there. So finally we found that it’s a Gore’s will that he’ll be coming back and he helping to the ministry. And we are planning because I already 51 years I am in the ministry and I’m planning to hand over to him. And since he’s very matured and very capable to run this whole ministry because these 477 churches with lots of people and I think he can manage well and he’s learning our decade of revival and all, we have a vision 2032 that the F C C B, the Serve Pentecostal Church will plant new a hundred churches in Bangladesh within this 10 years of time and 1000 people will be baptized and 10,000 new people will join into our congregation and a whole and 200 leaders will be prepared or raised that they will work for the future generation in the churches. That’s our goal right now.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:34):
I think that is a goal that comes from God. And God is going to do amazing things in the years to come because Bangladesh really is a harvest field and there are so many people that need Jesus in fact, right by where the home of peace is. There are some fields there. And we went and I was watching the farmers in the field, they were cutting the rice plants down and I was thinking, wow, this is a vision from God that Bangladesh is a great harvest field. And I pray that God raises up many laborers here
Bishop Albert (11:13):
Actually. You see that Bangladesh really is right now the harvest field and this is an abundant mission fill of the west. So one day missionary leap from this country and because of no result, but now God is God’s time. He’s giving result to the churches. So this is the harvest time. And if we have few laborer truly speaking that God, Jesus has told that plenty of harvest, but few are laborers. So we actually, this is thing Bangladesh is right now the place of mission and also the mission field and harvest is plenty. So we need to harvest because he’s coming. I believe personally that he’s coming. We are living in the end time. So this is the time for harvest. This is the time for preparing people on earth and we are responsible for Bangladesh. We want to reach to every corner of Bangladesh with the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:05):
Amen. So many believers listen to this podcast. How can they best pray for the nation of Bangladesh? And then how can people help with what God is doing here?
Bishop Albert (12:21):
You see the prayer bind us together and this is actually the spiritual bindings is most important and the time has come to come closer and the believers will come closer and pray for extending the kingdom of God. So Bangladesh is one of the unreached country in the world, number one. So the people, those are actually our brother and sister in many countries, we going to say that
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:51):
Please
Bishop Albert (12:52):
Prefer Bangladesh, that we can win the souls of the country because this is very hard soil. Bangladesh is really hard soil once upon a time, but now God is opening the doors for missions and the local church want to reach to the corner and to every people. So we need your prayer support at the same time, you are most welcome to have the campaign or work together with our church and also supporting with your generous prayer or answer finance if it is possible. This is where we can work together for his glory.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:26):
Amen. Well, there is great opportunity here. There are many
Bishop Albert (13:30):
Villages
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:31):
That need a campaign, that have never had a campaign, no one has ever come to talk about Jesus. And so it has been a great privilege to be here as your guest. Thank you so much for inviting me here and for being here. It has really been wonderful to see what God is doing here. Let’s finish by praying for Bangladesh
Bishop Albert (13:54):
Together. Yeah, Daniel, you are not
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:56):
Guest.
Bishop Albert (13:57):
We are family. The family of God. We are working together for his kingdom because that’s our purpose, that God
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:04):
Has
Bishop Albert (14:05):
Called us,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:06):
God have
Bishop Albert (14:06):
Raised
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:07):
Us
Bishop Albert (14:07):
For supporting and we didn’t know each other, but now we are brother
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:12):
In
Bishop Albert (14:12):
Christ, so let’s work together, pray together, and sub together for his kingdom.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:18):
Amen. So
Bishop Albert (14:18):
You are most welcome anytime in the country of Bangladesh and that we can work jointly for this. And also please pray for
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:25):
This
Bishop Albert (14:26):
Children home where 570 children are there because they’re the future of the country, the future of the churches, because you have seen that they have a morning devotion and evening devotion and they’re learning who is God, how to support him and how to solve him.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:43):
Yeah, they were singing songs, quoting verses, and even being led by other students. I was very, and they did a beautiful cultural program.
Bishop Albert (14:54):
They
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:54):
Danced and they had different groups from different parts of the country, different ethnic groups, and they dressed up in the traditional costumes of their people and did the traditional dances and it was so beautiful. Yeah.
Bishop Albert (15:10):
They’re actually from 17 different tribe groups or ethnic group, including also Bengali, our main motto
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:19):
To raise leaders from
Bishop Albert (15:22):
All different tribe groups and ethnic groups that they can work for their own community in the future. That’s our main, main plan or vision. That’s wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:33):
Well, let’s pray. Dear heavenly Father, we pray together for the nation of Bangladesh. We ask that you would pour out your spirit upon this nation. Lord, we pray for many salvations, many miracles. Lord, I pray for the churches to be strengthened. Lord, I pray that new leaders would be raised up. I pray for more churches to be planted. Lord, I pray that all of Bangladesh would hear about Jesus
(16:07):
The great work that Jesus did on the cross to provide for our salvation. And Lord, I thank you for Bishop Albert, for his son, John Lord. We ask for your blessing to be upon them and give them great wisdom as they lead these churches. This movement of believers in reaching one of the great unreached areas of the world. Lord, we ask you for a mighty harvest of souls here in Bangladesh. In Jesus’ name,
Bishop Albert (16:43):
Amen.
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Niclas Wiktorell | What is God Doing in Sweden?
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell from the Pentecostal Church in Lidköping, Sweden, joins the Evangelism Podcast to discuss the spiritual climate in Sweden. Pastor Niclas shares his testimony of how he became a believer and felt called to be a pastor. He also talks about a unique outreach his church did last Easter, where they filled a local arena for three days. Pastor Niclas also discusses how his church reaches out to immigrants from countries like Syria, Afghanistan, and Iran, teaching them about Swedish society and culture, and offering a Swedish school for them to learn the language. Pastor Niclas emphasizes the importance of Christians opening their eyes to the harvest fields around them and sharing God’s love with people.
Learn more about Pastor Niclas Wiktorell: pingstlidkoping.se
Transcription:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest, pastor Niclas Wiktorell from the Nation of Sweden. Thank you for joining me
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (00:12):
Today. Thank you, Daniel. So glad to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
We are in Asia together,
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (00:18):
And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:18):
We have had a wonderful time this week. God has been moving here, and so
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (00:23):
It’s been
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:23):
So wonderful to get to know you and you pastor a church in the nation of Sweden. Can you tell me first, what is the name of your church and then what part of Sweden are you in?
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (00:35):
Yeah, of course. The name of church is the Pentecostal Church in Lead Tripping. And Lead. Tripping is in the southern part, southwest part of Sweden, close to Goberg.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:46):
Okay. And let’s start with your testimony. How did you become a believer and how did you know that you were called to be a pastor?
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (00:55):
Okay. I think it started all, when my uncle came back from Africa, he was a missionary in Liberia in Africa, and he came back and he told about Jesus and what he did, and that really moved me as a little kid. I was maybe six or seven years old or something like that. And then I believe I saw that, okay, this is what I want to do with my life. But then
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:20):
It took a
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (01:20):
Little while, maybe during the teenager, as a teenager, I forgot about it, but I had my faith and I went to a Bible school. And on that Bible school I decided I wanted to do this, and God spoke to me about it. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:35):
Wow. And how long have you been pastoring?
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (01:38):
I’ve been pastoring for about 20 years. Wow.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:42):
And what is the spiritual climate in Sweden? I know historically there’s a strong church there, but now it seems like Sweden is more of a secular society. What would you say people’s understanding
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (01:59):
Of God is? Yeah, it’s very secular, and I think the minority has the idea that there is no God no at all. Maybe 10% has some sort of notion about God, but very few Christians, maybe two, 3% maybe.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:23):
And so in a secular society where people have a historical understanding sometimes of Christianity, but now believe that there is no God, how do you reach those who are lost?
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (02:37):
Wow. That is a tough question for us to do that. But I still believe that, well, it’s the same thing, even though it’s a secular country, I actually believe that now it’s so secular that when we come with the message of Jesus, it’s like, wow, people haven’t heard it before. So when I grew up, everyone about Jesus, but they rejected it. But now the kids and the young people, it’s like they’re hearing it for the first time. So I think you just have to be bold and you just have to try to reach out and tell the good news.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:16):
And so this year at Easter time, you had a very unique outreach. Tell me what that looked like and what God did.
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (03:24):
Yeah, we did it in a local arena. So we had 1500 to 2000 people in that arena for free days. And it was from the region, our city, it’s a small town. I mean, it’s like 40,000, but we could reach people in that area, in our region. And every night we saw people coming to Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:50):
How did you promote it? How did you invite people to come?
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (03:54):
Mostly through social media, actually. Only through social media. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:58):
Okay. So
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (03:59):
Facebook. And Facebook and mostly Facebook.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:03):
And so you asked your church members to share it and to invite people, and then were you also doing advertising on
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (04:10):
Facebook? Yeah, a little bit of advertising too, but that was what we did.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:17):
And so Easter’s a great time
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (04:19):
To
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:19):
Reach
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (04:19):
Out to people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:20):
That seems very amazing that for three days you were able to fill the place with
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (04:27):
1500,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:28):
2000. I
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (04:29):
Mean, it was such a huge step of faith for us. It was because we maybe do like this in Sweden two or three times a year, and now we thought we would do it in our little town, and it was a big step of faith, but we did it and with God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:47):
And what type of program did you do? Was it like a typical church service? Were you doing an Easter drama? What
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (04:53):
We did a number of different things. It was music programs and then also of course preaching. A lot of testimonies, a lot of testimonies about people that have been in different kinds of addicts and so on, and also some drama. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:15):
I’ve read in the news that there are lots of immigrants that have come to Sweden, and it’s a little bit controversial because some people want to be very welcoming. Other people say that is difficult to integrate them into the society, but your church is actually reaching out to immigrants that have come from many different parts of the world, and you’re reaching them with the love of Christ. What does that look like?
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (05:43):
Yeah, we reach people from Syria and from Afghanistan and from Iran. And every week we have this program Thursday nights when we invite them and we teach them about Swedish society, our culture and so forth. And also, we have a Swedish school for them, so they learn to speak Swedish.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:09):
And many of them coming from these nations are probably Muslim. The majority, the majority are Muslim. And so I think that’s really wonderful that you’re reaching out to the Muslims. In many times, Christians go on a mission to another nation in order to reach people, but really God is bringing the mission field to you. They’re right on your doorstep now, and I think it’s so wonderful that your church is reaching out to them, loving them, and showing them the love of Christ.
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (06:41):
Yeah, we always say that, but God has brought us the mission feel to us, so it’s much more easier now in that way.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:49):
And how has your church responded to that? Have they been enthusiastic about being a part? I think
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (06:54):
It’s been really, really amazing. A lot of people put in their hearts to this and work with this every week, and you see friendships with the immigrants and so forth. So it’s really, really nice to see what God does in people’s lives.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:11):
I think that’s so wonderful. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, we’ve had many Afghan families that have come there, and my father worked in Afghanistan for 12 years, and so we have been working with a group of the Afghans that have come to our city, and some of them actually had a stopover in Sweden, and so
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (07:31):
They
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:31):
Had some very nice things to say about their time in Sweden, and then they left Sweden and came to America. So we’re happy to have them now,
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (07:39):
But
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:40):
I think this is so important for Christians to open up their eyes. Jesus told the disciples, and John Pour is open your eyes and see the harvest fields. Really, the harvest field is all around us.
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (07:52):
And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:52):
If we’ll look for opportunities to talk to people about Jesus, to share God’s love with people, then we can see God begin to do miracles in their lives.
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (08:02):
Yeah, that’s amazing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:03):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast.
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (08:08):
Thank you, brother.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:09):
Daniel, let me ask you, what is your life message? What is the message that you like sharing with people the most that God has given you?
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (08:21):
Well, I think that God is a good father and he wants to invite you into his family. That is the thing that he’s a good father and he cares for everyone. He loves everyone, and he wants to take care of every person, and he sees everyone individually. Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:39):
That’s beautiful. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Pastor Niclas Wiktorell (08:43):
Thank you, Daniel.
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Samuel Jonsson | Building the Local Church in Sweden
Pastor Samuel Jonsson pastors a local church in the south of Sweden. On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast we talk about what God is doing in Sweden, the spiritual atmosphere in Sweden, and how the Pentecostal church of Sweden is reaching out to their communities with the love of Christ.
Learn more about Pastor Samuel Jonsson: www.hovslattpingst.se
Summary:
In this podcast episode, Evangelism Coach Daniel King interviews Pastor Samuel Jonsson from Sweden. Pastor Jonsson discusses the challenges of spreading the gospel in Sweden, a secular and individualistic country. However, he remains hopeful, noting that God is raising up young leaders and churches are starting to reach out and grow. Pastor Jonsson shares his church’s efforts to reach a specific area with a high concentration of broken homes and single parents. They have started a Sunday school and a children’s choir, which has attracted children from non-Christian homes. He also emphasizes the importance of pastors going on mission trips to expand their worldview and gain new perspectives. The episode concludes with a testimony of an 80-year-old man from Pastor Jonsson’s church who returned to a country he had previously worked in and witnessed the growth of the church.
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, pastor Samuel Jonsson from the nation of Sweden. Thank you for joining me today.
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (00:14):
Thank you so much for joining this podcast. It’s wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:17):
And so you are pastoring in the nation of Sweden. You have a Pentecostal church. Tell me what is God doing in Sweden right now?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (00:32):
I think God is doing a lot of things in Sweden. It’s quite, Sweden is quite a tough country in some ways, very individualistic, very secular in some ways. So it’s a quite hard time getting through everything else with the gospel, the message. But I think God is racing up young leaders and I think God is racing up leaders who wants to search the gifts of the Holy Spirit, get more into what God is doing, what God is saying, what God wants to do for the nation of Sweden. So I have hope for the nation of Sweden. I think God will do great things, but maybe we have to go through some tough things also during the way, but we can see some churches starting to reach out more, growing a little bit more. And then some churches of course struggling, especially in the north of Sweden, maybe small churches struggling a lot. And also in the south of Sweden, church is struggling because they’re quite small, some of them. But still I think God is moving in many ways. I can see small, I don’t know how to say it, but small signals of great things to come. I don’t know how to explain it better than that, but a longing for the things of God and a longing for the spirit of God to start to move and talk and speak and direct and heal and so on.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:05):
Now in what part of Sweden is your church located?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (02:09):
We are located in the south of Sweden, not the furthest down, I dunno how to say
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:15):
It,
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (02:16):
But in the south of Sweden. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:18):
And I’ve heard that that area is maybe known as the Bible belt of Sweden. You have many believers in that area, but of
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (02:26):
Course there’s, compared to the rest of Sweden, there’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:28):
Still many people that need Jesus.
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (02:31):
Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:31):
Definitely. In the context of your area, what are you doing to reach out to the lost and bring people to Jesus?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (02:42):
Yeah, if I go to my church, the church where I’m a pastor, we are trying to specifically actually reach out to a specific area where we live. Of course we tried to reach out to all people where we live, but God gave us a heart for a specific, is like a small, I don’t know how to say it in English, but apartment, house area, something like that. Many families live there who have a quite tough situation, single parents and broken homes and so on. And we just received the heart for that area to try to reach out. So the woman who is a child and family pastor in our church, she got the vision together with a couple of other guys to start to have a Sunday school in this area. So on a regular basis they go up there on Sundays first we meet together, all of us in church and we pray together, together with this team and together with the rest of the church, we’ll celebrate.
(03:49):
We have worship in church and then they go up and they have a Sunday school for kids. But the focus is also to reach out to the whole family. So primarily through the kids, but then through the kids to the parents as well. And in this area we also had small, you say small events, gone there, done fun things for the kids, just blessing them, talk to people, get to know people. So we are trying in different ways to reach out to this specific area because we realized that almost none of the churches where we have people coming from this area to their churches. So it’s almost like a small subculture almost in the outskirts of the area. So we are trying to get in there and trying to reach people with the gospel. But then we also actually, I want to tell you about a kid’s choir. That’s also,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:58):
I think this idea is a very unique outreach idea. You were telling me about your children’s pastor and she has started this choir for the children and what is that?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (05:10):
Yeah, she got the vision for that. Also, I think our kids pastor has some kind of an evangelistic heart and she just got a vision to start kids choir in the area. So first we just had kids from our church maybe in the beginning starting to come and they wanted to sing and learn to sing and so on. But then the kids started to take their friends from school into this choir. So a lot of friends came who came from non-Christian homes into this choir. So I think now they can gather on Tuesday evenings and on Tuesday evenings there can be 70 kids, sometimes 60 to 70 kids and maybe half of it are from non-Christian homes. So then we have added special services Sunday services on a regular basis during the semesters where we try to, we invite everyone, all of these families to come because the kids’ choir will sing and we try to give different kids and the choir specific roles.
(06:24):
So the families really will come because they want to see their kids and then they come and listen to their kids singing. And we just try to incorporate dramas into those services and incorporate a simple gospel message just to present the gospel in Jesus Christ to these families. And we have not yet seen the fruit we are praying for, but we are just trying to continue in that direction because just recently actually we had this kind of a service for, I think it was two weeks ago or three weeks ago. And then a grandma who had followed the family to the church, she told one of our leaders afterwards, I don’t think she was a Christian or had any Christian heritage in that way, but she said that these services means so much to me. It was like something touched her heart, but maybe she could not spell it out what it was. I believe it was the spirit of God of course, but maybe she could not spell it out. So we are trying to reach out also through this choir. And then the church where I’m a pastor is really, I told you in the car, I think it’s a really entrepreneurial church, many entrepreneurial people. So there are more ideas than we can almost do so many ideas, so many visions. But it’s really fun.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:57):
I think that’s really wonderful. I think in the years to come, some of those entrepreneurial ideas will result in grapefruit for the kingdom of
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (08:05):
God. Yeah, I hope. I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:07):
Sure hope. Let’s talk about your history. How did you become a believer? How did you know that you were called to be a pastor?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (08:16):
Yeah, I grew up in a Christian home. So I grew up in a Pentecostal church and both of my parents were a part of the church. My father was an elder in the church, but when I was quite young, I think I was nine years old, I remember quite vividly that my sister came home. I don’t know where she had been or maybe she had been to a camp or something. But she came home one day and we sat and we ate dinner. And I remember my sister started to talking about God and saying things about God that touched me in a special way. I had never experienced that because I remember looking into my sister, I was only nine years old, but remember it still, I was looking at my sister and I realized she has something that I don’t have. I had some kind of faith in God.
(09:13):
I remember, I mean we prayed together as a family. We prayed in the evening and so on. We could read the Bible together. And I had a children’s kind of faith maybe, but I saw something in her eyes and I realized she has something. And later on I realized that she had in some way accepted Jesus entire life. And that made me think at an early age think like what is this? And I started to pray. I remember in my own room like Jesus, I also want what she has. But then the specific moment came when I was at a big conference and I remember I had decided in my heart that tonight I want to really spell out a prayer that Jesus, I want you here in my heart. So I said to my mother, we were sitting in the front row seat that the conference, and I remember still that I turned to my mother at the end of the service and I said to her, I want to become a Christian. And then she followed me to what you call it when the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:20):
Altar, the altar,
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (10:21):
Exactly to the altar. They had an altar called people were coming in front of the preacher or what? It
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:32):
Was for the altar time. Yeah,
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (10:35):
For the altar time, exactly. So I was just following my mother, and then an old man came up to us and he asked, what do you want? And I said, I want to become a Christian. And I remember praying that prayer, not feeling very much. I did not have a specific feeling in my body or anything, but from that moment, I have never looked back. It’s like Jesus has been the biggest part of my life since that moment. And then I got baptized a couple of years later when I was 11 or 12 or something, 11 years old. I think I had to wait a little bit. And then I got baptized. And then when I was in seventh grade, I experienced the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues for the first time at the church service, like a prayer service or something like that in my home church. I was sitting alone and just feeling the spirit, starting to draw me to him and then giving me words, speaking of tongue.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:35):
And then how did you know that you were called to be a pastor? To be in the ministry?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (11:41):
It’s a quite long process actually. But when I was in seventh, eight, nine grade somewhere, I started to think a lot about what am I going to do with my life? And remember quite early that sometimes when I thought about that, I started to think maybe I should be a preacher or maybe I should do missionary work or maybe I should. I started to have those thoughts in my mind, but I was pushing it away because I thought that pastor is always not for me. It’s like old men in strange clothing and I don’t want to be that. So I pushed it away. But then when I came to, I think in the states, you call it senior high school. In Sweden we call it gymnasium. So when I came to gymnasium when I was like 16, 17, 18 years old, then I started to become really passionate about serving God.
(12:45):
So we started a group in school, me and some friends, we had a group in the school, we were going to a Christian group and we did outreach and gave away books and gave away Bibles and did different events. And the passion to serve God just grew in me during that season. I could not say that I have a calling to become a pastor, but I just knew I want to serve Jesus. Jesus is the best thing I want to serve him. So that grew in my heart really during that period. And then when I came out of high school, I was still quite confused, what am I going to do with my life? But then I had some different events happening that pointed me in this direction. First it was actually, I worked at an industry where my father worked just for a short period of time.
(13:37):
And one day when I was standing there and working, I actually heard a voice. I think this was almost the first time where I can say I heard almost a clear voice. I almost jumped because I heard a voice saying that when you come home from work, your pastor are going to call you and he will offer you a yoga church to be a youth youth leader. And I was like, what is this? I remember going to the toilet and being like, God, was that you? It was so whoop. But then when I came home, I went up to the tv, put on the tv, and then 30 minutes later the phone rang and I just immediately knew my pastor is calling now, my mom picked up the phone and she called me Samuel Michael, our pastor is calling you. And I was like, yep.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
It’s like God calling Samuel in the Bible, Samuel.
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (14:34):
Yeah, it was so specific, I just knew it. Okay, yes, I will take this. I took the phone, hello, Hey, we have been thinking do you want to work as a youth leader here in the church? And I was like, yeah, I’m going to think about it. You had a word from God, you knew he was calling. Let me pray about it a little bit. Yes, let me just pray. But I knew the answer of course. So then I worked at my home church for a short period of time. And then one year later or half year later, I went to Peru actually with a friend. We were on a short mission trip together, me and my friend. And in Peru, I once again heard that clear voice. And that was also very specific. I remember one night when I was laying in my bed, I just suddenly heard a voice say, when you come home, you are going to go to Bible college.
(15:29):
And he also told me what bible college it was. You will know when you get home why you are going to that specific Bible college. And in that bible college you will get what you call it. You will get direction for where and how you will serve me. So then I came to the Bible college. I met my then soon to be wife early on in the Bible college. And we started to date and see that we experienced, we felt that we should be together. And then at that bible college, in the beginning of it, I once again a third time heard the voice talk. And I remember the voice said that in the spring you will get an offer to start to work at the church and I want you to say yes, and then you will continue in that direction. So when the spring came, once again, that situation occurred.
(16:29):
So we got an offer, me and my then soon to be wife. We had an offer from a church in the north part of Sweden, far up north to come and work together with them quite broadly. We worked as some kind of youth workers, youth and kids workers, maybe you could call it, but also very evangelistic and also quite pioneering, but also preaching, teaching and everything. We had to do everything. So it was a great school actually to be there. So we was there for three years and then I felt, okay, this is what God has laid on my heart to work, to be in church, to be in ministry, continue as a pastor in different capacities. So then I went to study theology. So then we went to Stockholm in Sweden, the capital, I studied theology and leadership, and my wife studied to be an OB optician.
(17:25):
I think you can say. She had had that on her heart for a very long time to become that. So we was in Stockholm studying. And then I actually once again heard that voice. I’ve been hearing, of course God speaks all the time, but sometimes you can hear it more specifically, I believe. So I heard the voice when I was studying, say that the church where you are practicing now, they will ask you to become their senior pastor. And also once again, I want you to say yes. And I was like, I can’t be a senior pastor. Of course I can be on staff, I can be in a team, but can I lead the church? I had, it felt too big almost for me. I was only like 27 years old at that time or something. So I was like, oh no, that’s too big.
(18:16):
But then it came later on, a year later from that time because their pastor sadly became quite sick. The one I worked together with him in a small, I had a small percentage. I was paid a small percentage. So I worked at the church together with him, and then it became sick. And then they asked me, and then we just felt, yeah, God has prepared this, so let’s stay. So when I had studied, I continued in that church outside of Stockholm, a suburb of Stockholm. That’s like a long trajectory, but small steps where God has led. It
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:53):
Is beautiful to see how God has spoken to you at several key moments in your life and given you direction. Now, right now you and I are together in Asia, and I don’t want to mention exactly the particular country that we’re in, but we are here telling people about Jesus. Now I have a question for you. Do you think that pastors should regularly go on mission trips to different parts of the world? And what benefit would that be to a pastor?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (19:31):
First, I just want to say definitely I think you should go if you have the possibility. And the church may have the economy to send you away sometimes once in a while, I think you should do it definitely. Because especially when you come from the West, and maybe if you come from Europe who is quite once again quite individualistic, quite secular, it’s a quite tough place sometimes to be spiritually, I think. But then to also come to other places and see other kinds of soils almost,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:08):
They have a different set of problems. Yeah,
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (20:10):
Yeah. Every part of the world have their problems, but sometimes it can be good to change the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:16):
Problems
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (20:17):
To see something else and see how other kinds of churches are thinking to see how they are working, to see how they are reaching out to the neighborhood. And when you come to places like this, we are now in Asia or I have traveled to Africa several times and you see, you can see, especially maybe when I was in Africa, you can see their hunger for God and their hunger to pray, their hunger to seek things of the kingdom, their hunger to lay hands on the Sikh and pray for them and believe that something actually can happen that stirs something in your heart that you have to take home. I mean, you can’t leave it there. You have to take it home
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:04):
At the very least. It gives you some good stories to tell next time.
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (21:08):
Yeah, exactly. Definitely good stories to tell in your service. But I think, yeah, I always recommend, I had actually, when I was in Stockholm, I was the pastor of a satellite church and I had senior pastor working, leading me of course, and leading all the satellite church pastors. And he once said that you have to travel as a pastor from your country to other countries because you have to expand your world, otherwise you will become very narrow-minded and just thinking that you have all the answers and you know everything. So you have to, on a regular basis, expand your world. And I have carried that thought with me. If I have the chance to go away for a week or some days and you see something else and experience another culture, another church. And then I take it. And then I also love to travel, so it’s nice to travel, but I like that idea to expand the mind and expand the world and not become too narrow.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:20):
Now, there is a really wonderful testimony that has happened this week in this part of Asia. The Swedish Pentecostal church has actually been working for many years, and you brought with you one older gentleman from your church. He’s 80 years old, and he actually was here in this country working back in 1985.
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (22:46):
Yeah, somewhere
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:47):
Early eighties,
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (22:48):
84, 85 until I think 87 or something like that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:52):
Yeah. And so at that time, the church in this nation was very small, and now it is growing. They have gone from only a handful of locations to now over 450 different congregations with over 50,000 believers just in this one network of churches. And it was so beautiful to see this 80 year old, great man of God, come back and see some of the fruit of what the seeds that were planted so many years ago.
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (23:32):
It was so beautiful. And he both were a part of the leadership seminar we had. And I mean, his English is not so well right now, but still sitting there and listening to him teach. And you think about how he planted that seed for like 35 years ago or something like that, more than 35 years ago, and he now gets to sit in front of young leaders in the north part of this country and teach them the word of God. I think it was so, it touched my heart, but then also to see him lead in the prayer of salvation yesterday at the campaign, it also touched me so much because you can see the faithfulness of God and you can see how he has walked with Jesus all his life, and he still has a passion for the kingdom of God. I mean, he’s seen a lot. He both have seen the good things and the ugly things in church and in the Christian life, and he’s seen everything of that. But still, he has a passion, a soft heart. A soft heart for God, and a soft heart for
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:43):
People. Now tell me his name. How do you pronounce it?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (24:49):
Sorry, not the common name in the States.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:52):
Yeah. Well, it was so beautiful to see, and it really encourages me because it means that the seeds that we plant today, imagine what God will do 30, 40 years from now. Can you imagine being 80 years old and coming back to some of the places where you have sowing seed
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (25:11):
And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:11):
Seeing a great harvest?
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (25:12):
Yeah. That’s a dream. That would be a dream.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:16):
Amen.
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (25:17):
Could be in that place.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:18):
Amen. Well, brother Samuel, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate it.
Pastor Samuel Jonsson (25:23):
Thank you. Thank you, Daniel. Good to meet you.
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Stephan & Anne Christiansen | How to Start a Jesus Revolution
Stephan & Anne Christiansen pastor Jesus Church and lead a Bible school in Oslo, Norway. They love to equip young people in local churches to reach their cities with the gospel. This summer they led a team of young people to over fifty nations across Europe. Today we hear about how they are trying to start a Jesus Revolution.
Learn more about The Jesus Revolution: https://jesusrevolution.com/
Buy a copy of Anne Christiansen’s book, Love Story: https://jk.no/produkt/love-story-english-2/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:01):
Stephan & Anne Christiansen pastor Jesus Church and lead a Bible school in Oslo, Norway. They love to equip young people in local churches to reach their cities with the gospel. This summer, they led a team of young people to over 50 nations across Europe. Today we hear about how they are trying to start a Jesus revolution.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:38):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist, Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:02):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited to tell people about Jesus. Today I have two very special guests with me, Stephan and Anna Christansen from Norway. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Stephan Christiansen (01:19):
Thank you so much. It’s great to be here. And Stefan, by the way, is how I would say my name in Europe.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:24):
Okay, well, right now you’re in America, Stefan.
Stephan Christiansen (01:29):
Yeah, exactly.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:30):
Well, thank you so much for being with us today. Now you have been taking young people on mission trips across the continent of Europe, and this summer you did something very exciting. You took a group of young people to every nation in Europe. Tell me what did God do?
Anne Christiansen (01:51):
Wow, that was amazing. What we saw in Europe. It actually was all of spring and summer going into summer. And we visited 48 nations. We still have two nations that we’re going to do this fall because that’s the Pharaoh Islands and Iceland. But other than that, we went to every single nation together with a team of 60 young people. What a privilege. I mean, Stefan, you were there almost in every, I did
Stephan Christiansen (02:23):
The whole tour. I think you did the whole tour. I felt I had to be a part of the whole thing. And through the years, we’ve been working a lot in Europe. We’ve been in about 1100 cities since 1997 and doing evangelistic outreaches all over the place. We’ve sent out about 10,000 young people on short-term missions in Europe through the years as well. But then this dream came to us after the pandemic. How can we see a whole continent impacted at once? How can we see a harvest of souls across a whole continent and a whole generation of young people on fire for Jesus? So the 60 of us went in nine vans, equipment, light band preachers, everything. And it was probably by far, I think the greatest endeavor. If you think about logistics and all the practical matters. And 48 nations is a lot. So we typically did one major event in some of the smaller nations. In some of the bigger nations. We might have done two or three cities or for five in the uk, one of the largest large nations. And it was so encouraging. It was like really sparking the flame of youth revival on the whole continent. And we were so blessed to see what the Lord was doing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:50):
And so tell me, what is the spiritual atmosphere like in Europe right now? A lot of people are saying that Europe is a post-Christian area, but I like to say that Europe is pre-Christian. It is ready to come to Jesus very quickly.
Anne Christiansen (04:10):
Oh, you are so right. It is ready. So it’s exactly that. Europe does not understand religion in connection with Jesus. Jesus is religion is not interesting for the Europeans. So it’s a great time to show that Jesus is not religion. It’s completely different, it’s relationship. So that’s the message that Europe really needs Everywhere. Some nations, we see that there are so many believers and they go to traditional churches, but they do not have a personal relationship with God. And they do not even know that God wants that. So I mean, Europe is such a wonderful mission field. So when we go, we go in the streets, we are in the schools, we are on the screens of course, but we really see that people are like, wow, I can have this personal relationship with God. You mean that Jesus came for that? Because religion, we think in many parts of the world that we have to climb up to God and become good enough for him to accept us. And something like that has been the understanding in Europe, I think for decades, ages for generations. So the message that we come with that Jesus is alive and well, and Jesus is ready, Jesus came down to become like us. That is a message that goes all across Europe and that is received everywhere. And we see the Holy Spirit lift up Jesus, drawing people to the cross and people having a new start, a new understanding really who Jesus is and what it means for them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:00):
And so the name of your ministry is Jesus revolution. And a revolution is a radical change in society. What does a Jesus revolution look like?
Stephan Christiansen (06:12):
Well, if anything has ever been a revolution, it’s what happens when you are born again. When your sins are forgiven, you become a new creation in Christ Jesus. You are filled with the Holy Spirit. You go from darkness to light. You go from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God, you become a part of his church. I mean, if anything was revolution, that’s revolution. So the interesting thing was that when we were seeking God for the name of this ministry back in 1997, we were too young to ever have heard about the Jesus Revolution in California back in the days. And we were just seeking God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:46):
Yeah. Now it’s a popular movie, which I actually watched recently, and it made me cry because people were being baptized. I mean, it’s amazing how revolutionary the gospel is.
Stephan Christiansen (06:56):
Yes, it is. And here’s the thing, I mean, the gospel works everywhere. And so even though gospel Europe has got quite a rough spiritual climate compared with other parts of the world, but the gospel always works. So that’s why we need to preach it. We need to make it accessible to the young generation. And the special thing with Europe I support is that most young people have never really heard it really. So when they hear it preached in a way they can understand with power, with conviction, and through the presence of the Holy Spirit, so many young people are opening up their hearts. So we believe that it’s time to evangelize Europe. Of course, many, many nations of Europe, there’s 2.3% evangelical believers throughout Europe, 11, 12 nations, even less than 0.1% evangelical believers. So it is a continent that needs a move of the Holy Spirit. Many nations have never really seen, not just the revival, many nations have never even seen a reformation of any kind. So we need to sort of bring on a gospel army all across Europe and the world really. And we believe that together with believers like yourself, an evangelist all across the world, it’s time to really bring in the harvest of souls all across the world. And Europe is no exception.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:16):
Amen. Now you are from the nation of Norway. Yes. And the most famous evangelist from Norway is Aril Edvardsen. Did I say that? Right? Exactly. And he was a great evangelist from a very small village in Norway, but had a powerful ministry that impacted nations all over the world. And recently I was there and I was looking in their magazine. I saw a picture of a very young Anna and Stefan, that’s where they’re ministering. And so you grew up in some sense under his ministry. What are some of the lessons that you learned from him?
Anne Christiansen (08:56):
Oh, that’s many.
Stephan Christiansen (08:58):
That’s a lot.
Anne Christiansen (08:59):
Come on, Stephen. I mean, you traveled with him for how many
Stephan Christiansen (09:02):
Years? 10 years approximately?
Anne Christiansen (09:03):
Yeah. And we’ve been so close to him. We’re so thankful. We’ve learned so many things. First of all, you never start a meeting with a lie. You always have to be on time in everything you do.
Stephan Christiansen (09:19):
I think what I think first and foremost, there’s so many things that you can extract from his life. But the number one thing is probably how coming from a small place, a small nation or a small village is not a hindrance for a big vision. The Lord called Aril Edvardsen to be a world evangelist. He comes from a town or a village of 3000 people in that village. He built a center that could see at 4,000 people. He had 24 7 television satellite preaching the gospel in Arabic to the Arabic speaking world. He had crusades all across the world. He supported, I think about 20,000 or maybe more indigenous evangelists and church planters that he paid for. And he had five, 6 million students on his correspondence course. So those who got saved, he wanted them to do a 16 week course. So he had offices around the world, and this was the old days.
(10:18):
So you would typically have a lesson, write assignments sent into the office, get a reply back in the five, 6 million students fulfilling that. And so he wasn’t just content with response. He wanted to make sure they were disciples and all these people who were also saved, they had radio programs in 180 nations around the world. And all of this happening from a microscopic village, seven hours drive from the capital of Norway, really shows if God is calling you, if God has given you a vision, your nation, your geography, the size of your area is no hindrance. God can do exceedingly, abundantly above anything that we ask a think according to his power that is at work in us. And his life is just a great example about that really.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:09):
Now you have a church in Oslo and also a Bible school, and you bring young people on these mission trips to Europe and to other parts of the world. And so when I was hearing about your mission trip this year, my son Caleb is in eighth grade. He’s 13 years old. I was thinking, oh, that would be so wonderful to send him on an adventure like this. So if someone is listening and they want to get connected with you, maybe they want to come to the Bible school, maybe they want to send their young people on one of these great mission trips with you. What is your website? How can they find out more information about the Jesus Revolution? Well, they
Stephan Christiansen (11:48):
Can just go to jesus revolution.com and they can join in the summer. We are going to Prague in 2024, and young people are usually coming from 25, 30 nations. And also increasingly young people from over here, from the US are joining in. And this is in the end of July in 2024. And then if they want to do a year for God, they can do it through our training center in Oslo. They can do it from Rome. They could do it from Sofia and Bulgaria. They could do it from Belgium. They can do it from, sorry,
Anne Christiansen (12:20):
Did you say Rome?
Stephan Christiansen (12:21):
Rome, Italy. Yeah. Or from the Ukraine. And so there’s different opportunities also in plugging in. If people would like to set aside a year and evangelize in Europe,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:34):
What a tremendous opportunity. Alright, last word. What do you feel that Jesus is saying to the church during this time?
Anne Christiansen (12:43):
Oh, when people follow me, that’s the most important thing that we can ever do. And that’s the most challenging word as well. Follow me. Jesus said, and I will make you fishers of men. I think we’re coming back to discipleship. Really, it is like the word that in Antioch, it was the first time that the disciples were called Christians. And why? Because they reminded people about Christ. And now we call ourselves Christians and it’s time for us to come back to being disciples. And Jesus actually promised us that if I focus on the following, he’s going to do the making in me of becoming a fisher of men. This means stepping out of my comfort zone and really starting to come into the love of God for people, for others that will make me being so interested in others, being willing to listen, being willing to take part of people’s lives in our neighborhoods, schools, universities, streets, wherever in the workplace. So I think that’s a word for the church all over the world. It’s about everyone, isn’t it? And it’s about reaching everyone. And it can only be done when everyone gets involved in reaching everyone.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:11):
You sound like a true evangelist.
Stephan Christiansen (14:14):
And thinking about the need for the gospel to be preached all across the world and how God needs ordinary Christians and believers of all kinds and evangelists and churches to just reengage with the great commission. Anna, you were saved because an American evangelist, Tia Osborne came to preach the gospel in our city Oslo. And you were a 22 year old girl. And that’s the beginning of a revolution.
Anne Christiansen (14:40):
There were posters all over my city Oslo talking about this campaign, these meetings with TL Osborne. I had never heard of him. And I got so provoked actually because I was invited by people everywhere come to this crusade campaign. I went there to find more reasons why I would never ever become a hallelujah. And one guy actually said, you don’t dare to come, do you? Yeah, that’s the thing that he was so smart. He said, oh, you’re not coming. Oh, so you don’t dare to go. And I was like, come on. No one is going to ever have that on me, that I didn’t dare to go. So I went there and I never planned to stay. I was just going to be able to say, check that I went there. No one can say I didn’t dare. But I stood there and I listened to the gospel message preached by Teal Osborne, and it was so special when he was calling people forward to receive Jesus.
(15:41):
I was running forward receiving Jesus as Lord of my life. And he was pointing at me and he was saying, you are a Jesus woman now. I was like, what? I’m a Jesus woman. Now what am I going to do? What does a Jesus woman do? How does she live? What is she doing? I went and bought myself a huge big Bible. I thought a Jesus woman must have a big Bible. At least I was sitting in my home, I was smoking cigarettes. I was blowing the smoke away to see the scripture. And I felt, and then I felt one day the Lord spoke to me and said, Anna, can you picture me with a cigarette in my mouth? I was like, no, no, Lord, of course not. You’re Jesus. You’re the Messiah. Of course, you’re the son of God. You don’t smoke cigarettes. I understand that.
(16:34):
He said, but Anna, I do now because I live in you now. I was like, what am I going to do? And he said, turn it over to me and I’ll help you. And since that day, I never smoked a cigarette. And I also, I met the Osborne many, many years later because Stefan was asked to interpret for him. And he said to me, Anna, write a book. Call it love story and I’ll write the foreword in it. And he did. I wrote the book. I was in prayer writing that book, and he wrote the foreword in it. And it’s in English, in English now for the first time in it’s been in Norwegian, but now it’s in English. And my story is there a story of God’s love revolution in somebody’s life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:30):
Amen. Well, we’ll put a link to the book in the description on the podcast. So if you’re interested hearing more about Anna and Stefan Christensen, you can learn more about them. And thank you guys so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. Thank
Anne Christiansen (17:44):
You, thank you, thank you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (17:46):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real. You’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more Is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? In his powerful, easy to read book, Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen to good people? In proof, God is real. Daniel King shows you, God is there and he caress for you. Plus how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order proof God is real today by calling 1-877-431-FOUR 2 7 6 or find the book on Amazon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:50):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (20:10):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Zac Linton | The Power of a Ministry Sabbatical
Why are ministry sabbaticals important? Today we talk to Zac Linton. He has been a successful evangelist for many years, but this year he decided to slow down and take a sabbatical. Today we learn why times of rest are important for ministers.
Learn more about the ministry of Zac Linton: https://www.overflow.global/
Key Verses on Taking a Ministry Sabbatical:
Exodus 20:8-10 (Fourth Commandment – Sabbath): ”Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it, you shall do no work…”
Genesis 2:2-3 (God’s Rest After Creation): ”And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.”
Mark 6:31 (Jesus’ Invitation to Rest): ”And he said to them, ‘Come away by yourselves to a desolate place and rest a while.’ For many were coming and going, and they had no leisure even to eat.”
Matthew 11:28-30 (Jesus’ Call to Rest): ”Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Psalm 23:1-3 (The Lord as Our Shepherd): ”The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul.”
Isaiah 40:31 (Renewed Strength): ”But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.”
Psalm 46:10 (Be Still and Know): ”Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations; I will be exalted in the earth.”
Leviticus 25:4-5 (Sabbatical Year): ”But in the seventh year, there shall be a Sabbath of solemn rest for the land, a Sabbath to the Lord. You shall not sow your field or prune your vineyard.”
Jeremiah 31:25 (Refresh the Weary Soul): ”For I will satisfy the weary soul, and every languishing soul I will replenish.”
Psalm 34:8 (Taste and See): “Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good! Blessed is the man who takes refuge in him!”
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:11):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited to tell people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me. Zac Linton, thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Zac Linton (00:27):
Yeah, great to be here. Thank you Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:29):
All right, Zach, you lead overflow ministries and you have a great heart for evangelism. Tell me a little bit about how you got started in evangelism.
Zac Linton (00:43):
Well, there’s a much very long story, but the brief version is I gave my life to the Lord at age 21 after growing up Christian, but backsliding from the Lord for quite a number of years. I was involved in a car accident, which was a very serious situation at the time, and God used that to wake me up spiritually. And so from age 21 until now, and I’m 42 now, so it’s been actually exactly 21 years since then I’ve been walking with the Lord. I was a part of a vineyard church for a number of years in northern California, which is where I’ve spent most of my life in my ministry. And then I spent a couple of years up at Bethel Church in Redding getting some ministry training and equipping. And then I was a part of a church in San Francisco from 2008 into 2013.
(01:29):
So I would be a part of the team that would lead outreaches across the city of San Francisco. I’ve done a lot of street ministry and so on and so forth. But even from a young age, I’ve always had a heart for Jesus. And even when I was much younger, I remember telling some of my friends about the Lord. So I guess you could say it’s always been a part of my d n a and I believe who the Lord’s called me to be. And then in 2013, about a decade ago, I felt the Lord called me to begin my own ministry, which is called Overflow Ministries. And I’ve been doing this now for a decade, an independent evangelistic ministry, traveling and speaking around the world, winning people to Christ. And so that’s how it basically all happened.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:10):
So tell me about the name of your ministry Overflow ministries. Talk to me about the overflow.
Zac Linton (02:18):
Well, John 10 says that the thief comes to steal, to kill and to destroy. But Jesus says, I have come that you would have life and life abundant. That word abundant can also be translated as overflow or as more than enough. One of my favorite scriptures, two of my favorite scriptures that are still life scriptures for me to this day are Psalm 23, 5 and John 15, five, Psalm 23, 5 says, thou anoints my head with oil, my cup runneth over and John 15, five, Jesus says, I am the vine. You are the branches. He who abides in me and I in him will bear much fruit for apart from me. You can do nothing. And so I really felt from an early age that the Lord, those are very foundational scriptures for me, not only for the ministry, but really for my own personal walk with Jesus Christ.
(03:10):
I believe that religion, check this revelation. Religion tells people to try to bear fruit in order to abide, but relationship with Jesus. And the gospel says, first you abide that you’ll bear much fruit. And so what I learned was a lot of people are stuck in trying to do all these things for God. And that’s really what Paul addresses in some of his epistles of you who began in the spirit are you now being perfected by the law or by the flesh? And I feel like some people, depending on your background, maybe you really want to be a good Christian or you really want to follow the Lord or you really have a value for holiness. And all those things are wonderful and those things are from the Lord. But what the revelation that really set me free in my own personal walk is that God wants us to have an overflow of the Holy Spirit that begins with our faith in Christ and what he has done for us on the cross, which none of us deserved and none of us could ever earn, but it’s a life empowered by the Holy Spirit that truly is a glorious and a joyful and a victorious one.
(04:06):
And so I just named my ministry that so I could constantly remind myself to never get into striving, to never try and do it in my own strength, my own thinking, my own human ability to always rely on the overflow of the Holy Spirit. And I really try to impart that whether I’m preaching in churches or mentoring or whatever, that’s really a core value that I want people to understand from my ministry as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:28):
Now, you’ve done a lot of ministry in California. You started out preaching on the University of California, Berkeley campus, and there is a real mission field there, a lot of people that really need Jesus. What are some of the questions that people are asking these days and how do you answer them?
Zac Linton (04:53):
Wow, that’s a whole podcast in and of itself. Yeah, it’s funny. So let me tell a little bit of this story and I’ll answer your question as well. So I mean, I began the ministry by going to uc, Berkeley. That’s kind of the target that I felt the Lord called me to in the very inception of the ministry. So I would go out into the center of campus, I’d bring my Bible with me, and I would just begin preaching the word of God, open air. And it definitely stirred up some feathers, a lot of demons manifested. I mean, I was cursed at, I was yelled at. I had people hiss at me a few times and I definitely had some people listening. So it was sort of a little bit of everything that you found. And it’s funny because I think no matter how much we prepare, and there’s nothing wrong with apologetics, we absolutely I think should study certain questions and certain people are called more specifically to those kinds of ministries.
(05:44):
But what I really found worked for me was just saying, you know what, Lord, I don’t have all the answers to all the questions. I know you’ve given all of us to mind, but Jesus said to his apostles that when you’re brought before kings and governors, don’t worry about what you’re going to say because it will be given to you in that hour what to speak because it will not be you speaking, but it will be the spirit of your father. And so my prayer literally, I mean this sounds simple and sorry to give you guys an answer that isn’t a formula, but it’s just reliance on the Holy Spirit and literally saying, Lord, would you give me the spirit of wisdom and revelation so that when these people come to ask me these questions that I have some sort of an answer that’s of you?
(06:21):
Now, a few of the questions that I did encounter regularly or objections you might say. The other thing to encourage anyone who’s just getting started in evangelism or college ministry or whatever is that Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes that there’s nothing new under the sun. And I think what you’ll find is after I’ve been doing street ministry and preaching in churches in various places around the world for a long time, and after a little while it becomes like this well-worn path where you’re like, okay, I’ve heard that objection before. Okay, I’ve heard that excuse before. Okay, I’ve heard that problem before. So one of them is, well, what do I need God for? I’ll just find my own path. I’ll find my own truth. I believe in Buddhism, I was raised Muslim, I was raised Catholic. I don’t believe in the Bible because of X, Y and Z.
(07:07):
And so it’s sort of this, I feel like at the core of a lot of objections nowadays, Daniel, is this what I would call war on just truth in and of itself that this idea that there is no one truth, that there are many different truths, and really truth is subjective, it’s no longer absolute. And when you look at the laws of the universe, it says in Romans one that since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities have been made known. So that man is without excuse and no serious common sense person would argue with gravity or with all these things in the universe that are so consistent, that are so absolute that we know we can rely on these things. And yet when it comes to God or it comes to the path of salvation, it’s just amazing to me how people are so self-deceived into thinking that I can just, I use this example all the time.
(07:53):
I say, okay, if I’m in northern California and I want to get to la, are you telling me I can just point my car in any direction I want to go in and I could just drive as hard as I want and I’m eventually going to get to la? And they would say, well, that’s ridiculous. I’ll say, well then it’s literally that’s no more ridiculous than you telling me that you can just find your own path to God or you can just do whatever you want and that’s going to be good enough to get you into heaven. So that’s a big objection. The other thing I noticed too, a lot, Daniel, is that when people are offended or upset at you for preaching the word of God, there’s usually a root issue. I’m sure you’ve seen this as well. You have a lot of experiences in the ministry.
(08:28):
And usually what I try to discern when I’m speaking with somebody is what’s really going on with this person? Sometimes they’ll be giving me this philosophical argument of if God is so true, then why is there suffering in the world? Why did this happen or why would he allow? Those are very common types of objections, but often what I find is that’s not even the real objection. The real objection is I’m angry at God because my sister has cancer or my sister has down syndrome. I’m angry at God because my parents are divorced or I’m angry at God because my boyfriend left me or hurt me, or my girlfriend left me. And so it’s like people project onto God, all the pain they’ve been through in life for whatever reason, God gets blamed for that, and then that becomes a wound inside of them, and then that sort of becomes a barrier to God.
(09:12):
And so a lot of times when I’m speaking with people, I think there’s a place for intellectually answering their questions, but we need to go deeper. And that goes back to what I said earlier about wisdom and listening to the Holy Spirit. You have to say, okay, holy Spirit, what does this man or woman really need? Number one, are they even open to your gospel or am I just having an argument with somebody? Because one of my rules is the moment I feel like I’m just getting into some argument with somebody who really isn’t open at all to the gospel, they just want to argue and debate with me, I’ll usually exit that conversation pretty quickly and I’ll tell you why. First of all, it’s generally not fruitful at all. And number two, the more time I spend with Joe argumentative over here, the less time I have to keep reaching out to other people on the campus. And so all I can say is, I mean, there’s so many other questions and objections probably that I could talk about, but I’d say the biggest ones are, I’ll find my own truth, or I think I’m a good person, so therefore I don’t really need God. I think I’m good enough to go to heaven. And again, these are not new objections.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:14):
Now you’re doing something very unique this year. You are taking a ministry sabbatical. Talk to me about why you’re doing that and why you think it’s important for ministers to take sabbaticals from time to time and to have a time for spiritual renewal.
Zac Linton (10:37):
Yeah. Well, first of all, I’m from the western world in America, and for all of America’s great qualities, I would say that there’s definitely kind of a workaholism that’s pretty inbred into our culture. And so really, God kind of brought this sabbatical upon me. I’ve read through the scriptures a number of times, so I know that God rested on the seventh day, but I hadn’t really dug deeply into what I would call a deeper, more extended sabbatical. And frankly, I’d never heard anybody teach on the subject ever. I mean, I never heard a sermon on a Sunday about you need to take a year off to seek the Lord and to rest. And so the way it came about for me was at the end of last year, which was going on my ninth year in ministry with Overflow Ministries, I was at my parents’ church in northern California just visiting around the Christmas holiday season.
(11:29):
And I ran into an old friend of our family and we were talking, and she just asked me a simple question during our conversation. She said, Zach, I really focus on helping minister to ministers because oftentimes ministers themselves are very neglected, they’re burned out and they’re always giving, but most people are blind to the fact that those folks need ministry as well. She said all that to me. And then she asked me this question, she said, when was the last time you took a sabbatical? And as soon as she said that, it was like I knew it was the Holy Spirit talking to me like a ton of bricks just kind of hit me right in my chest. And I paused and I said, I haven’t. And it was like the Lord used that conversation and the woman was so nice, she wasn’t scolding me or, oh man, you’re going to burn out you.
(12:12):
This is wrong. You need to hurry up and repent and do. I mean, she didn’t say any of that. She just asked me one simple question and the Lord used that. And so after that I just realized like, wow, Lord, the more I thought about it, I realized if the biblical rhythm is once every seven years, and where that comes from is if you study the Old Testament, the Lord actually tells Israel to rest, to allow the land to rest for an entire year. And what’s amazing is when you study that, Israel freaks out because they say, well, wait a minute, God, are you kidding me? If we rest for a whole year, if we don’t plant crops and plow and do all this work and do all this stuff that we usually do, we’re going to starve to death. And the Lord says, no, you’re not.
(12:51):
I’m going to provide for you. I’m going to bless you. I’m going to bless you double. And we also see that in the wilderness when the children of Israel are going through the wilderness for 40 years, that the Lord began to send the manna every day, and on the sixth day he sent them a double portion so they could rest on the seventh day. And so we see this principle, this is part of who God is and who his character is. And so as I began preparing for this, I started praying and saying, Lord, I don’t even know how to do this. What do I even do? Am I just supposed to hang out and watch Netflix for a year? And I was like, of course. That’s not what I’m supposed to do. And as I prayed into it, and again, I hesitate to give a formula. I want to give principles. I do believe the Lord can uniquely tailor it for each and every person, but I think that the principle is God is a God of rest. And that when we go through ministry, I don’t know about anyone watching this podcast, but somebody needs to hear this. I’ve been through betrayals, I’ve been through heartbreaks, I’ve been through hard times, I’ve been through persecutions. I’ve seen God do amazing things like salvations and miracles and healings, but I’ve also been through a lot. And I feel like in other
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:52):
Words, you’re doing real ministry. I mean, that’s the story. If you’re in ministry long enough, you are going to experience some of those things. It it’s never easy. And if yout, and it takes an emotional toil on people.
Zac Linton (14:07):
Yeah. Amen. And so I think I remember also right around the time I was having this conversation with this lady, a friend of mine who’s a pastor out of Chicago. He said, Zach, I just heard some recent big church-wide study that was done in America that 40% of pastors are thinking of quitting the ministry. And when I heard that statistic, I said, wow, Lord, something is really wrong with that. And I’m not saying that there’s just one simple answer to that, but I would argue that one of the big, big reasons for that is I really believe in our American culture. We have neglected the command and the gift I will add of Sabbath that the Lord has given us. And so as I was praying about it getting ready, this is what I felt like the Lord said to me, he, Zach, pull back from public ministry for the most part.
(14:54):
Okay, obviously we’re doing this podcast, but for the most part I canceled. I had an international trip invitation to Pakistan this year that I had to call the gentleman and say, you know what? I’m so grateful for this opportunity, but I think we’re going to have to put it off till another year or a couple years from now. And I said, I’m not really looking to preach or teach in any churches. I’m not going to be doing any street evangelism, at least not leading a bunch of teams in street. And so it was like just pulling back from the public ministry in order to focus on the private ministry. And so the Lord gave me six goals for this year, and I’m going to share them briefly. My first goal, and I believe this is for anyone who takes a sabbatical, is that Jesus Christ has to be your first love and he has to be my first love.
(15:38):
In Revelation we see that, that there’s churches that are doing so amazing and they’re winning the loss and they’re resisting false teachers and they’re doing all this hardcore stuff and even resisting persecution. And Jesus literally says, but this one thing I have against you, you’ve forgotten your first love. And I want to tell you something that is so grievous that when you read that passage further, he says, if you do not repent, I will come and remove your lampstand. That’s how serious our relationship and our intimacy with Jesus should be to all of us. And so I think one of the dangers is we get so focused on ministry that ministry can actually become an idol, and we can be so focused on ministry and Oh, I got to do this event and I got to raise money and I got to mentor my team and disciple this and get a building and do this and dah, dah, dah.
(16:20):
And again, nothing wrong with those things in their proper places. So that’s the first thing is that Jesus would always be our first love. Secondly, and thirdly, the Lord told me to read through the whole Bible this year, which isn’t really even that big of a goal. But the third one that he said was, Zach, I want you to memorize scripture a lot more intentionally this year than you have previously. And just sharing this to whoever may see this around the world in America and the Western world, at least up until now, we’re so blessed with the fact that we have very easy access to the word of God and to Bibles. But I’m sure that Daniel has seen this in some of his ministry. I mean, you go into some nations and you don’t get easy access to the scriptures. A matter of fact, some people, if they’re caught with the Bible, they can be put in prison or arrested for it.
(17:03):
And it was like the Holy Spirit was convicted me like, Zach, you take the Bible for granted because you think you’re always going to have it. What if you didn’t have it like a year from now? What if you didn’t have it five years from now? How much of it would you actually have within you memorized? And so I’ve really felt convicted this year to really press in more to memorizing the word of God. So those are my three first three goals. The last three is just kind of going through inner healing. I call it healing and wisdom, just processing the stuff that we all go through in ministry and life and not just feeling better about it, but really looking at it through the lens of Jesus Christ, looking at it through the lens of God’s redemption and the cross. And even being able to say, like Joseph said, though, maybe that person or that situation was meant for evil against me.
(17:45):
The Lord can turn all those things into good. And that’s a process, and I just want to encourage somebody watching this. I have spent time in nature, I’ve spent time praying and worshiping, and the Lord will just kind of peel back a layer. Sometimes when I’m in those places, I’ve spent time talking to pastors and friends like Daniel or many others that I’ve had the privilege to know around the United States. And God just, he’s so amazing. He weaves it all together where he brings healing in those places that we need it. But I feel like you have to make room for it. And that’s the purpose of Sabbath is you’re taking a step back in order to listen more to the Lord, in order to allow the Lord to do those deep works, those deep surgeries within us that we need. And then my fifth and sixth goal is number five.
(18:24):
God would establish me. I feel like I’m in a transitional phase right now where I’m really seeking the Lord about where he wants me to be located for the next 10 years of ministry. I’m feeling like my hour in California is coming to an end, so I’m just praying into that. I’m asking for the Lord also to just connect me with the right team and the right people that I need to run with for this next decade of life. And then my last goal is to finish writing my book. So that’s what my sabbatical has looked like. And I’ve had the privilege to travel across the us. I’ve stayed in homes, I’ve stayed in Airbnbs, I’ve even been homeless a couple days this year. But to God be the glory, and for me, I feel like it’s just been this incredible adventure with the Lord where he has shown me his faithfulness again and again, this is the other crazy thing.
(19:07):
When I was getting ready for my journey, I was getting ready and I was packing everything and I grabbed one of my credit cards. I thought, what if some crazy emergency happens? What if my car blows up? Or what if some unexpected thing happens? I need this credit card as a backup just to take care of everything. And as soon as I put my finger on that card, I felt a check in my spirit. And the Holy Spirit said to me, Zach, are you going to trust in debt or are you going to trust in me?
(19:36):
And that just wrecked me. And so I said, okay, Lord. So I put the credit card back in the desk and I just said, I’m not going to bring it. I’m not going to have a plan B. Now that seems really foolish and reckless if you don’t have faith and if the Lord has not spoken to you, but when the Lord has told you to do something, he will supply everything that you and I need in order to accomplish that. The day before I left on my sabbatical at the beginning of the year, I got together with a gentleman who’s a friend of our family for coffee. He wanted to meet with me. We had a great time of prayer fellowship. And right before we were ending, he said, I have something for you. Don’t go anywhere. He goes to his car, he comes back and he hands me an envelope with over $5,000 cash in it.
(20:16):
And he said, this is manna for your journey. And I just sat in my car, Daniel, and I just wept for probably 15 minutes after that because I just thought, Lord, why would I doubt you? I feel like the Lord wants to challenge all of us, and I’m just sharing this testimony to stir all of our faith up. God is so much bigger. God has a better way than our way. God has a better way if we’ll actually trust him. And I feel like one of the words of the Lord to the American church is that we’ve trusted too much in marketing schemes and fundraising schemes and man’s plans and programs instead of really listening and depending on the Holy Spirit and doing what he has told us to do. And so anyway, I could continue on for another half an hour, but this sabbatical has changed my life, Daniel, seriously, I feel like a young child again in my spirit, I can feel the Lord peeling back layers of my heart healing me.
(21:06):
I feel more in love with Jesus now than I have been in so many years. And so I want to encourage you, if you feel burned out, I would argue you need to take a sabbatical. If you have the faith, take a whole year off and watch God do miracles for you, but at least get away for a couple of months and say, Lord, help me to be re-centered. Help me to remember why I’m doing what I’m doing. Fall back in love with Jesus. Spend time with your family. If you’re married and you have kids, get out into nature. Just slow down because like I said, when we’re so busy, we don’t have room in our spirits to just listen to God. I think a lot of people are busy doing stuff, and I liken it to a car stuck in the mud. You can be busy but not moving anywhere.
(21:46):
A car in the mud is running and spinning its wheels and it’s trying really hard. And maybe that’s you right now watching this podcast. Maybe you feel that way. I want to encourage you get unstuck by just getting on the mountain with the Lord like Moses to get away with God. Like Samuel in the prophets. And this is the last thing I’ll say about it, Daniel, when Jesus was at this beautiful moment of his ministry just preached the sermon on the Mount, thousands of people are listening to him multiplying the loaves and the fish, and everybody’s looking for Jesus. And then he says to his disciple, let’s go away for a little while. Let’s just go on the mountain side and be all by ourselves in America. We’d be like, wait a minute. You mean you’re not going to do another conference? You’re not going to go do another outreach. You’re not going to go preach another big. It’s like, no, we’re going to do that in its proper time and place, but we need that time to rest. So anyway, I pray that ministers to you, whoever you are watching.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:37):
So if you meet a minister who is on the verge of burning out and just been overwhelmed by the stress and strain of ministry, what advice would you give them as they consider going on a sabbatical?
Zac Linton (22:54):
Yeah, I would say number one is probably do a one to a three day water fast and just really ask the Lord to speak to you concerning what he wants your sabbatical to look like. I can’t overemphasize how important that is. I have a lot to say on this subject, Daniel. I really believe. So one of the key scriptures for me this year, and I would argue for all of us as we press more into the heart of God, I call it running at the pace of grace, and Jesus said that my yoke is easy and my burden is light. That’s Matthew chapter 11. Now, one of the theme verses for this year is Isaiah 40 31, and it says this, but those that wait upon the Lord will what? Will renew their strength, they will mount up with wings like eagles that will run and not be weary and they will walk and not faint.
(23:42):
I literally believe, I’m not saying we don’t go through persecutions. I’m not saying we don’t go through difficulties and hardships. All of us do, but I don’t believe the will of God for you or me is to be in a place of extended discouragement or weariness. I absolutely do not believe that’s from the Lord. That’s why we have the comforter. That’s why we have the advocate. That’s why we have the fire of the God in our spirits. And I believe that people get into that place of discouragement and weariness and wanting to give up for two reasons. One, they’ve allowed willful sin into their life somehow, whatever that might be. Okay? And there’s a very simple solution to that. You need to repent, amen. If you’re doing drugs, if you’re doing anything behind the scenes that the Lord has said that’s wrong, you need to repent and let me encourage you to find a brother or two in Christ that you can be accountable to.
(24:28):
I think a lot of people in ministry feel alone. They feel two things. One, they feel alone. Two, they feel like if I actually get open and confess, it’s going to ruin my ministry, it’s going to ruin my marriage. And not to say there aren’t any consequences to sin depending on what it is that’s been going on behind closed doors, but I want to say, I think it’s a lot better to just come out and just be upfront with it and say, you know what, Lord, whatever it is, whatever issue’s been going on, just confess it. Get it in the open, and God, I believe God will have a path of restoration. I’m not saying it’s always going to be easy, but the alternative is you’re going to die anyways. If you stay in that sin, God’s eventually going to bring judgment on you and your ministry and trust me, it’s going to be way, way, way worse in the end.
(25:09):
And so that’s number one. But the other one is that I think people become weary and discouraged because they’ve disconnected from the source. And that’s why it goes right back to the whole idea of this overflow ministries, John 15, five, Psalm 23, we can’t bear fruit by ourselves. And I feel like a lot of people are branches that have disconnected from intimacy with the vine, and they’re striving and struggling to try to keep their ministry going and their marriage going and win the loss and do this. And it’s like, guys, that’s insanity. Please, Lee, stop. Don’t do that anymore. Just get alone with Jesus. Allow him to restore your soul and restore your heart. And I really believe Sabbath is God’s methodology. It’s kind of like a honeymoon. It’s like an anniversary. You’re married to your wife and you want to renew that intimacy. Guess what?
(25:52):
You’re not going to do it if you’re both just crazy busy all the time just missing each other like ships in the night. You have to be intentional. Amen. You have to pause. You have to say, wait a minute, where did we disconnect? When did that happen? Oh, a year ago. Oh my gosh. We need to look at this. And because my conviction, I already shared when we wait on the Lord, when we seek his face, when Jesus truly is the thing that I’m after more than even my ministry. And I feel too, like somebody watching this might need to hear that our ministry is not our identity. Okay? I’m not Zach the evangelist or Zach the prophet. I’m Zach, the child of the living God because of his great mercy, because of the blood of the lamb. Amen. And you’re a son or you’re a daughter of the most high God you see.
(26:33):
And when we understand that that’s our identity, we’re no longer performing for acceptance. We’re not performing in order to feel good about ourselves in order to prove anything to anybody. We’re simply overflowing with the love of Christ, with the gospel, with the good news and with the truth that a dying world desperately needs to hear. And I’ll be the first to confess that no matter how much you think, you’re never going to somehow stray back into some sort of weird performance mindset. I feel like it’s just part of, sadly, the fleshly human nature. And so it’s good to have these rhythms of saying, you know what? Let me pause. Let me have an intentional time of checking in with the Lord and allowing him to renew my soul, to answer that question and recap fast and pray and ask the Lord what your sabbatical should look like, and then address one of the two issues and really try to identify, is there sin in my life I need to deal with and or have I disconnected from the vine? Have I let ministry or the stresses of life or other things literally become God to me instead of making sure that Jesus is God?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:32):
As you come out of this sabbatical, I believe your ministry is going to be stronger and more powerful than ever before. More nations, more preaching, more people reach than you ever have before because there will be a new strength that is coming. If someone is interested in learning more about your ministry, what is your website? How can they get in touch with you?
Zac Linton (28:02):
You can just go to overflow.global is the website address. I also have a YouTube channel, and you can reach that by going to zach linson.com, or you can look me up on YouTube by just typing my name in. But you just put zach linson.com, your browser, it’ll forward you to my YouTube, and that’s spelled Z A C L I N T O n.com, and then overflow Do global. There’s not a.com on it. It’s global. So those are my two websites. I mean, I am honored to connect with other people. If you feel called by the Lord, you have a question. If you want to somehow participate in Global Missions or join our pro team or do whatever, then I’m happy to be a resource to you. But please check out Daniel’s ministry as well. He’s doing an incredible work, and you guys, Jesus is coming back soon, and so I just feel like, you know what?
(28:53):
If I could say this last word to all of us, man, we’re all on the same team, and I really do believe that as we get closer and closer to the coming of Christ, and I do believe we’re starting to see a lot more and more and more of what we would call birth pains in the earth and in the nations leading up to that, I feel like let’s be more unified if we can agree on Jesus Christ crucified and raised, the Bible’s, the word of God, and that everybody needs his salvation, otherwise you going to heaven or Hell. I feel like if we can unite around those essentials, we can lovingly maybe have discussions about the other peripheral doctrinal disagreements perhaps we may have, but let’s do it in love and let’s do our best to pray for believe in speak well of encourage and labor together in the harvest of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:38):
Now, you told me earlier that one of the things that you’re praying for is a spouse to join you in ministry, and so if there is a cute girl who’s listening, what’s the best phone number for her to reach you at?
Zac Linton (29:53):
You know what? I don’t know if I want to give out my phone number on
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:55):
This podcast,
Zac Linton (29:57):
But you can. I mean, if you want to send me an email and just say, hi, I’m more than happy to meet you. Yeah, I mean, just send me an email. My email is Zach Zac c@divineoverflow.org, or you can send me a message to my website and say, I saw the podcast. I’d love to talk to you sometime. So I’m open to some of those conversations if you’re so bold as you want to send me that message.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:20):
I was totally joking, but I actually met my wife on the mission field, on the border of Rwanda in Congo, and so when you’re doing what God has called you to do and running after him, if you find someone who’s running in the same direction, that could be the right person for you. So amen. I know there’s a lot of godly women out there that are just praying that God’s in them, a godly spouse too.
Zac Linton (30:46):
Yeah, and I’ll be honest with you on that note, anybody who’s single men or women, it’s like a vast wasteland out there, to be honest with you. I mean, I tried the online dating thing a couple of times, really, really didn’t like it at all. And so maybe there’s people like me that you just feel like, man, I would like to meet somebody amazing who I feel like is a good compliment to who I am without compromising your values and your beliefs. And I think that’s one of the reasons why I think I’ve, I’m still single at this point. It’s not the only one, which is a whole separate podcast in and of itself, but I want to encourage you that, yeah, I mean, just stay true to the faith. And like Daniel said, I believe that if you pray and you wait on the Lord, whether you meet ’em at church, you meet ’em through a podcast, you meet ’em on some conference, you meet ’em, go door to door evangelism with a group or something, that God has those people out there and yeah, I wish it was a little bit easier though just to connect people.
(31:37):
I wish there was a Holy Spirit sort of matchmaking service that wasn’t creepy or weird or awkward where they could help people get matched up. I’m sure there’s a lot of other people out. We
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:47):
Should start a website though. Holy Spirit hookup. In fact, if you get any emails out of this podcast, I’m going to change the name to the Evangelism and Christian Dating Podcast. That’d be great.
Zac Linton (32:01):
Yeah, there we go. That’ll be awesome.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:03):
Hey, Zach, thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast. So good to hear about your ministry. I know God has big things in store for you, and thank you for sharing some of these really important thoughts about the power of taking a sabbatical.
Zac Linton (32:18):
Yeah, amen. God bless you. Can we close with the word of prayer?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:22):
Please go for it.
Zac Linton (32:23):
Yeah. Father, I just thank you for those who are watching. If somehow you’re watching this and you’re either on the fence or a churchgoer, but you haven’t given your life to Christ, just say yes to him right now. Say, Jesus, I want to make you my Lord and Savior. I believe you died for me and Rose again. I repent and put my life into your hands, and God will guide you. Find a church, get a Bible. If you need resources, please reach out to Daniel’s ministry, or if you’d like to reach out to mine, we’d love to help you. And Father, for everyone else, God, we just release encouragement specifically to anybody in ministry, Lord, any leaders, any associate pastors, worship leaders, pastors, evangelists, missionaries, whoever, business leaders, God who just feel discouraged, who feel like they’ve been fighting an uphill battle with little support.
(33:07):
God, I just pray in the name of Jesus for a breaking to take place for a wave of encouragement. God, I pray you will show them where and if they may have gotten stuck somewhere, Lord, release this revelation that you are the God of rest. Lord, your word says that you give rest to your beloved Lord. Your word says that as we wait upon you, we will renew our strength. So we just speak a renewing of strength. We rebuke discouragement, we rebuke fear. We rebuke every lie. The devil that would try to take you out because you are needed in the end time. Army of God, you are important and you’re not important because of your performance. You’re important because you’re a son, because you’re a daughter of the most high God. So Father, we give you the honor and the praise, Lord, we say, let your work continue throughout America, throughout the nation. Scott, thank you for Daniel and his ministry as well. Lord, I pray for an overflow. God, I pray for the funding, the resources, the team, and the expansion, Lord, in the years ahead of souls, and we give you the honor and the praise, Lord, in Jesus name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:03):
Amen. Thank you, Zac. Appreciate it.
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Giles Stevens | Church Multiplication in Brazil
Giles Stevens is the evangelism pastor for a huge network of churches in Brazil. His goal as an evangelist is to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. You will be amazed as you listen to his story about how the church grew from 70 people to tens of thousands.
Learn more about Giles Stevens: https://gilesstevens.com/
Learn more about the church GIles Stevens is part of: https://www.igrejavideira.com.br/
Buy the book about “The Eleventh Question”
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Giles Stevens from Great Britain now in the great nation of Brazil. Thank you for joining me today,
Giles Stevens (00:15):
Daniel, a joy to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:18):
Alright, you are passionate about evangelism. Tell me a little bit about your testimony and how God has brought you to where you are now.
Giles Stevens (00:27):
Well, I’m the first believer in my family. I like to say I got saved by mistake. I was looking in all the wrong places for life and for adventure. I’d rather thrown out the idea of Christianity as a young teenager because of my rather negative sort of traditional church experiences. And so I went to look for life and adventure outside of the church and that took me down all sorts of wild and paths and so forth. But thank God in his rich mercy, he sent along a couple of nice friends of friends who preached Christ to me and it kind of tricked me up, woke me up, brought me out of my lost state and showed me what life was all about, where told me the truth. And it just radically changed my life. And I think the fact that I’d come from a family where we didn’t know Christ personally and didn’t have that relationship and the fact that I suddenly realized there was an eternal realm and the decisions we make here during our lives affect where we spend our eternity.
(01:29):
I kept thinking to myself, well, how come nobody’s ever told me this before I could have died and if I’d have died, where would I be today? And so in a sense, I became a natural evangelist. I just thought there would be thousands, millions of people out there just like me who had no idea about these eternal consequences and destinations who’ve never heard. And so I just began. Once I was saved and knew the Lord, I just thought, boy, I’ve got to tell everybody else. So I preached at everything that moved. That’s how it started.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:56):
So you definitely have the call to be an evangelist on your life. And now you’re living in the nation of Brazil. How did you end up going to Brazil?
Giles Stevens (02:06):
Well, I married the girl.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:09):
Where’d you meet?
Giles Stevens (02:10):
Well, my wife, who is Brazilian as I’m indicating, she had won a scholarship to go and study in a Bible school in London, a place called the International Bible Institute of London, run by the quite well-known church, Kensington Temple. And so she was there and I was a full-time evangelist traveling around London at the time and other places with a big gospel tent and putting it up in downtown parks and using music and test me and other things to bring people in. And then preaching, there was no tomorrow to the crowds. And her church brought in the whole tent and all the equipment. I noted her in the kind of gang of young people. But being a classic Englishman, we have this slight reserve on us. So you shouldn’t really in decent society introduce yourself. So I saw this girl wanted the local pastor to introduce me and he didn’t. And so in the end, at the end of this mission, I went away having seen her thought, well she looks lovely and she’s full of the spirit and there’s something different about her. But I didn’t get introduced. But interestingly, a year later I was in a Reinhard Bonky fire conference in Birmingham and I saw her again. And thankfully by then I had more kingdom culture than British culture and I thought, I’m not going to miss my chance. Second time round,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:34):
God is the God of a second chance he brought her back.
Giles Stevens (03:37):
So I made a beeline for her.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:39):
Oh well that is a good place to meet your wife at a Reinhardt Bonky fire conference. I know you know that here is someone who loves Jesus.
Giles Stevens (03:47):
Well that’s right. People who go to those fire conferences, they have to have a certain are type of believer. They love the fire, they love evangelism. And so I like to say it’s a good place to find a partner better than the pub.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:01):
Alright, so you met her, you got married, how many years have you been married now? 23. Wow, congratulations. And she’s from Brazil, so you ended up going to Brazil with her?
Giles Stevens (04:14):
Yeah, we married in England. And so it was only really after our marriage that we went down to Brazil to meet the extended family. And we have completely different upbringings. And this is one of the challenges, but also one of the exciting things about our relationship is I was brought up, my father was a general in the British Army. I went to private schools, studied at Oxford, been traveling around the world ever since. My youth,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:43):
A classic British gentleman. Well,
Giles Stevens (04:47):
I trying to be, be gentle. Anyhow, Sylvia, in contrast, she was brought up out on a ranch in the back end of nowhere. I think you Americans, if you can picture in your mind the little house on the prairie, then you’ve pretty much got how Sylvia was raised. She’s the oldest of four girls. Her father and mother had this ranch literally miles and miles away from the big city. And they were brought up without electricity, without a car, without telephones. They would go to town once a week in a horse and cart to go to church and buy a few supplies. And she tells these incredible stories about how sometimes in rainy season to get to town you’d have to cross rivers and if if it had risen through the rain, they would have to sort of camp by the river until it had gone down so that they could cross over in their cart.
(05:39):
And so it was completely different upbringing. But as I’ve often said to young single people who are looking and praying about their married marriage partner, I’ve said, look, it’s not the past that counts. It’s the destination, your future that counts. Scripture says how can two walk unless they are agreed. And so when you’ve got a similar vision, a similar heart, a similar passion, then I believe that partnership can be a success. And thankfully, like we were talking about Sylvia being in a fire conference for evangelists, I knew that’s somebody with a similar vision. So it’s been a great, great marriage.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:16):
And what city are you living in? Brazil?
Giles Stevens (06:20):
Well, it’s a place that nobody knows and nobody can pronounce even if they know it well, certainly us foreigners. It’s called Goya. And it’s actually a large city, 1.5 million. So it’s big, but it’s kind of, it’s cowboy country. So people think when they think of Brazil, they either think Amazon or they think of Rio de Janeiro and the beaches kind of carnival football on the beaches. So we are more than a thousand kilometers inland, if you know where brazilia is, a couple of hours drive from there, right in the heart of Brazil below the Amazon and to the east of the Panol, which is the equivalent of our Everglades or your Everglades. And it’s a lovely region, beautiful countryside, jolly hot, but great place to be. Goana itself has no tourist attractions apart from an old zoo where there’s zebra that’s lost its stripes, there’s a lion who’s forgotten how to roar. And an old bear who strolls around. That’s our only tourist attraction. But Ang is not known for a tourist center. It’s known for something much more superior. And that is the move of God that’s happening there. It’s an extraordinary, it’s a city of revival.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:29):
Wow. Tell me about the revival.
Giles Stevens (07:32):
Well, I mean my experience mean in general. I can tell you about Brazil. I mean, it’s just extraordinary really what’s happened over the last 20, 30 years. I mean, Pentecostal, the Pentecostal missionaries came in and we’re here at an evangelist conference. So these sorts of conversations we’ve been having. But Swedish Pentecostals came in 112 years ago to the Amazon and started that sort of whole Holy Ghost move. But it didn’t really take off numerically until the last 20, 30 years. And so we’ve seen multitudes coming to the Lord in a general sense. I mean literally millions and millions, remembering that Brazil is a country of 230 million people. So that’s a big, big country. But I’ll give you more of the context with the network of churches with whom I’m based and principally work for, even though being an evangelist, I’m a kingdom man. So we started that church, which has now grown into a large network. About 24 years ago, I joined up with one of Sylvia’s youth pastors, my wife’s youth pastors, who had started this new church with a group of people, 70 people in a garage or on a veranda. And now that church is over 30,000 people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:51):
And what’s the name of the church in port in
Giles Stevens (08:53):
Portuguese? It’s called Reja Viera, which translates directly as the Vine Church. The Vine Church. So we’ve now got over a thousand churches. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:01):
So there’s many branches all over Brazil.
Giles Stevens (09:03):
Yeah, I mean originally we just, the growth is so organic, the thing just kept growing and growing. And then before we knew it,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:15):
Well, if you name your church the vine, you figure it kind of spreads. We used to have a vine on our house and it would cover the entire thing. And so I think that’s a good name for a growing church. Yeah,
Giles Stevens (09:25):
I agree. I agree. I agree. It’s very biblical John 15. Of course. Yeah. But we did mean we were intentional as well. I mean some of the growth came just because people would get saved, become a member. And we have quite a strong church culture. So the people who sort of like what we teach and the way we do church, we’re a cell church. We have a lot of encounter weekends, and it’s a very busy active church full of young people. And so people who have been in that environment, if they get moved to another city for, I dunno, work or something else, they tend to, because of the culture they carry, they love having church at home as well as in a big building. So they’ll automatically start a group at home, a cell group. And so we just found these new groups growing up in other cities as well. And then we thought, well, we better send a trained pastor or a leader down there to help them. And suddenly we found that we had a network and then we did become a bit more intentional saying, well, let’s get a church into every one of the capitals of each state that 26 states. And then we thought, well, let’s get a church into every city with over 200,000 and so on and so on. And now we’ve become actually a growing international movement as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:31):
Wow, that’s amazing. And so tell me your position and what you do.
Giles Stevens (10:37):
Well, I kind of wear two hats really. I’m on the one hand an evangelist, and that’s really my principal.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:46):
The reason I’m asking this question is because a lot of evangelists who listen to the podcast are wondering how do they fit into the local church? Not every church makes a place for the evangelist, but I think an evangelist really needs to be part of a church and plugged in doing evangelism as part of a local church using their gifts. So how has that worked in your life? Well, I
Giles Stevens (11:11):
Think I really agree with you, and it’s not only good for the evangelist, it’s good for the church. It’s a two-way thing and it’s good for the family of the evangelists. You can’t just be out there on your own all the time. You should be in a community of believers. And in a sense, I mean I’ve always operated like this. My call as an evangelist is principally to my local church or to the group of local churches with whom I’m based. But obviously evangelists are kingdom people as we referred to earlier because we’re preaching the gospel to get people saved and to join a church. So we work with other churches as well. But for me, I think every evangelist needs to champion the local church. Christ is coming back for the church, it’s the church that will be raptured, the church is his bride.
(11:57):
And so the idea of having, even if you have a parachurch organization, you’re not building up that organization. You’re actually using your parachurch organization, your charity, your not-for-profit to build the local church. And I think pastors, they’ve had an uneasy relationship with evangelists over the years. They perhaps felt threatened by them or they feel that they might be pulling their flock away. But I think if evangelists express that and show that pastor I’m here to do a campaign so that your church grows so that new families come in, then obviously pastors are going to open up their hearts and their doors to them as well. So yeah, it’s always been a passion of mine. And I think also that coming back to the way we do church is that as Ephesians four says, the primary purpose of a five-fold ministry gift is to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. So yes, I do campaigns, big campaigns, but actually I spend just as much time, if not more time training all the believers to be evangelists as well, all the believers to share their faith.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:05):
Yeah, that’s so much an important part of what the evangelist is called to do. So you said you wear two hats. One is the evangelist and are you saying the other one is the equipper or you have another hat? Yeah,
Giles Stevens (13:18):
Well yes, we might have a few hats here. We start breaking this down. But what I wanted to say was I do run an evangelistic association. It’s called the Great Mission, and that is to serve the body of Christ and the local churches at large. So I am an evangelist doing that within the Vine Church itself, I’m part of a presbytery or an apostolic team. I kind of serve as the director of evangelism. And so I train all the members of those churches. I prioritize that multiplying my own gifting and giving them tools and strategies so that they can be fruitful as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:58):
And so what does that training look like? Often in church, people want to do something for God and they have a heart to share their faith with others, but they don’t really know what to say or what to do. So in the Brazilian context of where you are, how do you equip believers to share their faith?
Giles Stevens (14:19):
Well, it’s great question. I really like that it’s right at the heart of what I feel like I’m called to do. I think firstly, local churches need to have a structure which allows them members to be sharing their faith and encourages them. It’s one of the reasons I really believe in cell groups where it’s not just now the pastor who’s doing the preaching because in cell groups, all the members of the church and that cell group can get involved in preaching and starting their own groups and so forth. So you are sharing what you’ve received, you are teaching what you’ve learned. And I think that produces healthy growth in the individual believer as well. If the believer is just receiving, then in a sense he grows lazy. If he’s just giving, then he’ll dry out. But you’ve got to be having both sides receiving and giving learning and teaching.
(15:08):
So we need to have church structures where that can happen. But as you rightly say, often people have a heart to win. Others, they just dunno how to start the conversation. They dunno what to say, they dunno how to do it. And so I think one of the things that the Lord has anointed me or gifted me to do is to create tools and strategies that help ’em to do that. And Daniel, you know how it is the evangelist as a character, one of the characteristics, the traits of an evangelist normally is that he’s quite extroverted. He preaches with ease. He burns all the time to share the gospel. And that’s great, but not all believers are like that. Like I say, a genuine believer, somebody who’s born again has a new nature, they’re going to have a heart to see others saved. Of course we are, but they perhaps just dunno how to take that step.
(16:02):
And so one of the things I’ve done is produce tools or materials that help people to share. Back in 2008 now I launched, or 2007 I launched a strategy called the 11th Question, a little booklet I’d spent some time with Reinhard, actually this is an interesting story. And he’d been down to us, he’d come and visited and preached in our conference and he was talking about in those days, I think his vision was to win 50 million people for Christ. Now we were really, really growing. We were really growing. I mean our churches were exploding, but when he started talking about the millions, it kind of makes you feel like you’re doing nothing in comparison. And I remember just lying on my bed after he’d been there and I’m just wrestling it out with the Lord. I’m thinking, Lord, I’m excited about winning 5,000 and he’s winning 50 million.
(16:53):
I said, I’ve got the same Bible as him, the same spirit as him. There’s something wrong here. And I felt like the Lord said to me, Giles, it’s one thing to have a vision, it’s another thing to have a strategy. I think we all tend to have a vision of winning our generation for Christ or something like that. But you’ve got to go beyond the vision and actually have a strategy in place that then fulfills the vision. And it was clear that Reinhard had his strategy of big crusades and all this kind of stuff. So I prayed that through and I felt like the Lord said to me to do two things, write a book for believers to equip them to share their faith, but also write a little booklet for unbelievers so that they can hear about Christ in a dynamic way. And I mean, if you think about it as well, you go to a Christian book shop, there’s pretty much nothing written for the unbeliever.
(17:44):
It’s all for the believer. And that’s got to be wrong because we are the salt and the light of this earth. So anyhow, I wrote this booklet called The 11th Question, A Spiritual Self-Evaluation Test. There are 11 questions, you have to answer those questions. The 11th is the most important, and the way you answer the 11th will determine your future. And what I did, it’s a little booklet with these 11th questions in, and we equip believers to share those 11 questions with friends. Now what happened was, this is back in 2007, I equipped 10,000 believers to do this test with seven people over the course of one month. So we evangelized 70,000 people in one month and we baptized at the end of it, 3000 on a day. So that was the beginning of this.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:29):
That’s like the day of Pentecost, 3000 people getting saved in one day.
Giles Stevens (18:33):
Well, we’ve gone beyond that. I then launched more recently another little booklet called Seven Good Things that maybe you Don’t know, same kind of idea. Because remember what I’m doing is I’m helping believers witness to their friends, to their neighbors, to their colleagues. So it’s not me doing the big preach. I mean, I do do the crusades and things, but this is getting the body to do it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:55):
So let’s talk about the 11th question. What are some of those questions that people are trained to ask?
Giles Stevens (19:00):
You have to buy the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:00):
Book to find out now is it on Amazon? Yeah, it’s on Amazon. We’ll put a link on the podcast so people can find the book The 11th question. But tell me some of the questions. No, I won’t.
Giles Stevens (19:12):
I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:13):
Really won’t. The thing is,
Giles Stevens (19:15):
Like I say,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:15):
Because otherwise it
Giles Stevens (19:16):
Takes the kind of thunder out of it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:18):
I mean, I’ve got a book, but I only got three questions in my book. You’re much more complex money. I just get them there much quicker. I’ll tell you some
Giles Stevens (19:25):
About my last one called The Seven Good Things. And that’s been really effective, which we launched just before the pandemic. And interestingly, when the quarantine came for us evangelists, most of us turned like tigers in a cage. We didn’t know what to do with ourselves. We love being out there doing crusades. You can’t have big gatherings. And I just was praying about, I just thought, Lord, what do we do? I just refuse to let not just kind of regulations shut me down, but also that kind of spirit of fear that was in the air, that everybody
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:56):
Was afraid
Giles Stevens (19:57):
That they were going to die and so forth. And I felt that classic story of David and Goliath. Saul ran from the Giant, but David ran at The Giant and I just thought, I’ve got to run at this thing. I’ve got to do something sort of bold and courageous at a time like this. And so I created a network on WhatsApp and for a hundred days I challenged this big network, thousands of young people to share their faith with one person every day for a hundred days. And I gave them different things to do. But one of the things was this booklet called Seven Good Things that Maybe You don’t know. And they would share these messages. And so some of those things, I’ll tell you those no matter who you are, you are much loved another one. No matter what you’ve done, there’s forgiveness available. I’m a real good news preach. I believe that Jesus Christ came as a friend of sinners to tell them the good news that their sins had been forgiven through his blood and by the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:56):
Cross. And so over the course of those a hundred days, what were some of the miracles that you saw? Well,
Giles Stevens (21:01):
I mean the biggest miracle as we evangelists will say, is the miracle of salvation. And so actually at the end, it was in October, beginning of October during the pandemic, we baptized 10,000 people in a day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:12):
Wow, that’s amazing.
Giles Stevens (21:14):
And that was in swimming pools and lakes and rivers and seas. Anywhere there was water because we couldn’t gather them together. We had this online meeting through YouTube and so forth, and all the different churches and places, the cities that were holding these events were baptizing. So we ran at the Giant.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:32):
Wow, what a miracle. Let’s talk about the spiritual atmosphere in Brazil. What do you see God doing in the nation of Brazil?
Giles Stevens (21:41):
Yeah, I mean we really have to talk about that because again, the tendency when we think about church growth and winning souls is to immediately go to strategy. But I think it was moody or one of these guys said, it’s not so much how you present the gospel, just make sure you present it hot. It’s got to be anointed, it’s got to be full of fire and life. And really, if you’re full of fire and life, it doesn’t really matter what sort of strategy you use. I mean, I teach young people these days. I say, look, be filled with the Holy Spirit and then do whatever you like because if you’re filled with the Holy Spirit, life is going to flow through you. So we work, how can I say? We’re very conscious, I suppose, as church leaders of creating spiritual atmosphere, culture, a revival culture.
(22:30):
And so I almost want to talk in tongues. So difficult to put into words this, but you’ve got to have that atmosphere where people are just going after God, where the presence of God is liberated and manifesting the whole time, and a fire will naturally go out unless it’s fed. And so we see that as well. It’s very easy for a move of God to stop very easy unless you make a personal decision. I think this is one of the roles of a church leader. You make a decision that your meetings, your church, whatever you do is you don’t accept anything but a manifestation of the presence of God. Whether it’s in a prayer meeting, a Sunday church, a crusade, an encounter weekend. We are going to pray to have that presence. We’re going to preach. Until we get that presence, it just becomes our life source. We need the living water. Because of that, there’s life manifesting. And of course growth comes because of life. Most people go after growth. I always say, no, no, go after the spiritual atmosphere and growth will be the result.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:37):
Wow. I know you’re a very proud father. Your son is at Oral Roberts University right now. My friend Rubens Konya took him over to Ethiopia for a crusade. And so God doesn’t just call individuals, he calls families. Talk to me about balancing family life and ministry life.
Giles Stevens (24:00):
Well, yeah, I mean that’s really interesting. Again, I’m really enjoying your questions, Daniel. We are a missionary family. I’ve got four children. Titus is the oldest, so 21, 19, 18, and 15 little girl at 15. And so let me say it like this. Sometimes you hear Christians say, God, first, family second, ministry third or those kinds of things. But I’ve never seen it like that. For me, it’s all one thing. So it’s not just about Daddy Giles being the minister and everybody else following me. No, we’re a ministry family, we’re a family of priests. We are all in this together. And so also for us, church isn’t a building, church is a body of Christ. And so we’re just as much in church at home as a family as we are if we’re in a pulpit somewhere. And I think that atmosphere and that way of life has just meant that what the gift and the call of God on my life has just been naturally spontaneously shared with the children.
(25:03):
And so they are all involved in the ministry with me. I mean, I was listening to a message that Titus preached the other day, and I had to post it on a pastor’s group. I just had to, on a WhatsApp group that I’m part of, I said, just listen to this coming from a 20 year old boy. Because what he preaches in this message, I think is wiser and more anointed than most ministers I’m hearing who’ve been in the ministry for years. And I don’t say that as a proud father. I’m just trying to say that when you’re brought up in revival and it’s just in you from the get-go, then it just sort of gushes out, doesn’t it? And so it’s just been a joy. Obviously, they’ve all got slightly different and giftings and so forth, but all of them are just full of the Holy Ghost. That’s great.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:52):
That’s awesome. What advice would you give to a young evangelist who really wants to be used by God?
Giles Stevens (26:00):
Well, yeah, really good question. Again, boy, you’ve done this before, haven’t you?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:06):
You’re my 290th interview on evangelism. Fine. Yeah. Have I got anything new to say? No, it’s good. I mean, it’s so neat seeing how God uses different people, different personalities. There’s so many different methods of evangelism, but God is so wonderful. He uses all of us. Yeah, yeah. I mean
Giles Stevens (26:25):
Advice to a young evangelist is if it burns in your heart, preach it. I started out pretty shortly after I got saved. I remember reading the scripture that Saul, who became the Apostle Paul, he preached Christ immediately. The scripture says in the synagogues immediately after his conversion. So he didn’t hang around to start sharing about Christ. And I think when you’re faithful with the little, God will give you much. And so you can see how Paul’s revelation just grows and grows and grows. He was constantly giving out what he’d received. So I think there’s a principle there. If you’ve been anointed, to be honest, if you’ve got saved, start talking about it, start testifying. At least that’s what we’re empowered to do by the Holy Spirit. But I think really, if you’ve got a call to the full-time ministry and you dream of the multitude, so to speak, I think probably the best thing you can do is something rather like Elijah did with Elijah, serve a man of God, a more experienced evangelist.
(27:25):
Because there’s a certain amount you’re going to learn in the classroom, and obviously you’re going to learn through your own relationship with the Lord principally and the study of the scripture. But so much is transferred in that discipleship process when you’re actually under the authority and you’re serving a man of God who’s already doing it. There’s just lessons there that you wouldn’t get anywhere else. And I again like to teach on that particular story in the Old Testament that scripture gives detail and it says that Elisha, he poured water on the hands of Elijah. And I read that and I thought, that’s really strange that it would say that, but it’s clear that the detail is in the scripture, I think, to show us that if he was doing the menial tasks of just even helping Elijah Elijah wash his hands before dinner, that really meant that he was disposed to serve his master in any possible way that he could be helpful.
(28:21):
Remembering that, of course, Elisha was a rich young farmer, and so he was the rich young ruler, let’s say, who gave up everything unlike the rich young ruler who Christ called and went away. So he served this rather strange prophet. He saw the anointing of God upon him. So if you’re a young guy, then you kind of need to let go of sometimes of your natural world and your natural relationships and get around somebody who’s really anointed, but serve them in practical and menial ways. And you see, this is the glory of this revelation is that as Elijah poured water on the hands of Elijah, what he didn’t realize perhaps at the time was that Elijah was pouring spiritual water upon the head of
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:08):
Elijah. I love that story. And then one of the most tragic stories in the Bible is the next one of Gaze who was called by God, I think, to be the next prophet of Israel, but failed his test, and he was serving Elisha, but then for a little bit of money in a few sets of clothes, he gave up his anointing in his bad trade dollars because he didn’t know that being a servant is just a stepping to the destiny that God has for you.
Giles Stevens (29:43):
Yeah. Sold himself out. Oh, dear.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:46):
Tragic. I’m going to put a link to your book on the podcast, but do you have a website, a way that people can connect with you?
Giles Stevens (29:59):
Yeah. The ministry that I run, the evangelistic ministry I run is called The Great Mission. Put a.org on the end of that, and you’ll find us or Giles Stevens, old English name, G i l e s, Giles Stevens with a v.com. You can find me there and you’ll find materials. Like I said, my heart is very much to equip and empower others. I’ve often said, what’s best? One guy speaking to a thousand or a thousand preachers speaking to their multitude. So I’m very much about helping not just teach, but giving other young evangelists and teachers and preachers and pastors sermons to preach and strategies to use so that you can be fruitful in your own life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:42):
My passion. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate
Giles Stevens (30:46):
It. Daniel, it’s a joy. Thank you for receiving Titus when he’s been to help you as well and your crusades, and I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:52):
Hope we can, he’s a blessing. Hope
Giles Stevens (30:53):
We can do more together.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:54):
Thank
Giles Stevens (30:54):
You. Bless you.
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Hans Martin | Evidence of Faith
Hans Martin has been leading people to Jesus in Burkina Faso and Mali. He is on the board of the Association of Campaign Evangelists. This network of evangelists has ministered in over 80 village campaigns in Burkina Faso. During the time this ministry has taken place the percentage of Christians has in Burkina Faso has grown from approximately 2% to 11%. Today Hans Martin helps to lead Evidence of Faith (Troens Bevis), the evangelistic ministry started by the famous Norwegian evangelist Aril Edvardsen.
Learn more about Evidence of Faith: https://evidenceoffaith.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Hans Martin, thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Hans Martin Skagestad (00:10):
Thank you for having me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:12):
Now you’ll have to tell me how do you pronounce your last name?
Hans Martin Skagestad (00:14):
Yeah, ska Gestad. In English it would be like SCAD or something like that. So I don’t usually when I’m out, I never use my last name. I usually just use my two first name Hans Martin.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:29):
And so we are sitting on the historic grounds of a great Norwegian evangelist. Tell me about him and what he did in this place.
Hans Martin Skagestad (00:40):
Yeah, this is the base that was built and founded by Evangelist Aril Edvardsen. It started in 1960 where God called him to have a worldwide mission organization. So that’s where we are. It’s a small place in Norway called Quinol. It only lives maybe around two, two and a half thousand people here, but it’s being become a big center of Christians all over. Scandinavia has come to this place to be inspired to go to Bible schools and sent out to preach the gospel all over the world and also this organization. And through the work during these 60 years that the organizations have reached out to millions of people all over the world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:30):
It’s seeped in history here. It is so wonderful to be in a place where revival has gone out all over the world. And we’re actually here for a conference with the Association of Campaign Evangelist Ace, and you’re one of the board members for the organization. And we’ve actually met in many different countries. Last year we were in Turkey together and we are here with campaign evangelists who have a heart for preaching the gospel. And you have spent a lot of time going to different nations around the world and preaching the gospel. Tell me about some of the countries that you focused on and what God’s done there.
Hans Martin Skagestad (02:13):
So I have been traveling to many different countries having campaigns. I think I’ve been to preaching in maybe around 60 countries the last 13, 14 years. But there are some countries that I have had my main focus on when it comes to campaigns and crusades. And that’s two of them are Burkina Faso and Molly, that I have spent most of my time the last years having campaigns there. Yeah, so Burkina Faso is the main focus together with Molly.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:46):
And so over the years, how many campaigns has Ace done in Burino Faso?
Hans Martin Skagestad (02:55):
Yeah, it’s around 75 to 80 I think. Somewhere between that we have had in Burkina Faso the last, I think it’s 20 years and I have had 35 myself since 2012. So we’ve really had a great impact. And what you can see with Burkina Faso, it’s quite interesting, is that for 20 years ago there was around 2.5 Evangelical Christians in Burkina Faso, and now it’s around 11, 11 and a half percent evangelical Christians in Burkina Faso. It’s not only the work with the campaigns that we have done with Ace and my organization and others, but it is several things that happened. But it’s actually a great revival in Burkina Faso especially to see when Burkina Faso has been a troubled country with a lot of terrorism, unstable politicians situation. And also to see how Burkina Faso is the second country with most terror attacks in 2022. It’s only Afghanistan that had more terror attacks than Burkina Faso.
(04:05):
But still in that environment the gospel is growing and there is a great revival happening. So for me that’s really inspiring to see that we can sometimes look at the environment and we think, oh, it’s tough, especially in Europe. And I would guess it’s the same in America. We look at the environment and the politician situation and we think, oh, it’s difficult, but God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and power of God is shaking nations. And that is what we see in Burkina Fa. And we have seen thousands of people giving hundreds of thousands of people giving their life to Christ. And it’s really, really inspiring and to see in these difficult situations how God is working. And we also work very closely with what we call local missionaries. We support local missionaries because we plant churches. We have planted hundreds of churches in Burkina Faso the last 20 years. And it’s amazing what’s happening there. And most people have never heard of Burkina Faso, but it’s actually a country with 23 million people. And it’s amazing to see what God is doing in these nations.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:16):
I really love the strategy that you have had for Burino Faso because over the years doing over 70, 80 campaigns in one country, you’re able to systematically go from village to village to village. And so some of the campaigns aren’t huge, but you go to a small village and for that village, it’s the biggest thing that’s ever happened in that place. And so talk to me some about the strategy and the process of what you’re hoping to accomplish. Yeah,
Hans Martin Skagestad (05:51):
The goal or the thinking we had was that we want to go to new places. We want to go to places where there have never been a gospel campaign where maybe even where they’ve never been preached the gospel before. And we did that when we started 20 years ago. What we see now, it’s quite interesting, is that we have been now to between 70 and 80, 80 cities around and villages around in Burkina Faso and some of what was a village 20 years ago is now become a big city because the growth of the population. So when we were there 20 years ago, maybe there was 20,000 people. Now it’s 150,000 people in the village. So we actually now also we’re thinking of maybe some of the village that we have to go back to because they have grown so much and they’re a new generation. But also our thinking is that we want to go to together with our local that we work with, we say that we want to go to every city and village in Burkina Falls. So that’s our goal. About
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:00):
How many would that be? Oh,
Hans Martin Skagestad (07:01):
That’s thousands. So also
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:04):
You’re really only just getting started.
Hans Martin Skagestad (07:06):
But the thing is that we don’t see that we have to go to all these thousands of, I think it’s 2000 villages and cities that have never been preached in Burkina Faso. So we are not thinking that we have to go to all that, but we also train that what we use also the local missionaries, the local evangelists, we want them to go out to these villages and preach and have their own mini campaigns in the small villages. So when I say between 70 and 80 campaigns that we have had, that’s the people in Ace. But if we take the local missionaries that will be hundreds more that has had campaigns. So we want to be really strategic in what we do because we believe that it’s important for the nation. And we work also very closely with the local denominations and we never plant our own churches where we plant through the local denominations.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:06):
So I pulled out my calculator here and you said there’s 24 million people in Burino Faso. And so 24 million times 24 million, hold on. Times 0.025% would’ve been around 600,000 believers. And then over the last 20 years, it’s gone from about two and a half percent to
Hans Martin Skagestad (08:35):
Around 11 and a half to
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:36):
About 11 and a half. So I’m going to put these numbers in. We got 24 million times point 11 five. So now over 2,700,060 believers, 60,000 believers. And so over the course of 20 years, see almost 3 million people that now serve Jesus. I mean, it’s an amazing revival. I mean hardly anyone’s ever heard of what God is doing there. But when you think about it, over 2 million people giving their lives to Jesus, that is a great revival.
Hans Martin Skagestad (09:14):
You could put in a context if that happened in America, that almost 10% increase, that would be how money lives in America. America, like
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:23):
300 million, that
Hans Martin Skagestad (09:24):
Would be 30 million that got saved in 20 years. And same thing in Europe, it would be a revival that the newspapers would speak about and write about every day. But also what I think is good because it have been a quite tough Muslim country with a lot of terror attacks, a lot of things. I think also it’s good that in some way that it’s not opened the news and talked about what happened there because you have to, there can be tough times also for the locals we work with in some areas it’s quite tough, especially in the northern part and the eastern part has been very difficult the last years. But even to see now that there are happening so much, it’s really inspiring.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:14):
And then you’ve also been going, Tom, you have a great heart for Molly. I’ve been to Bamako, I think the capital there and I got to participate in a campaign there a few years ago. But many Muslims in Mali, yeah,
Hans Martin Skagestad (10:33):
It is totally different from Burkina Faso. In Mali, there are 0.66%, so less than 1% Christian Evangelical Christians. It’s a very, most of them are Muslims have some animists and so on. But most are Muslims. And what is quite strange when Mali is that Mali had had a lot of missionaries, a lot of mission work for a lot of years, but there is not happening a lot in Mali has been quite closed, quite, not so much happening, but what we have seen when we work with the locals to support locals, the fruits of it, it has been quite good. And also the campaigns, I usually, because also some of the challenges that a lot of mission work is happening in Bamako. You have a lot of Christians in Bamako, but not a lot of, most of the Christians are in Bamako. But when you go out of Bamako, there are not many Christians.
(11:38):
So I have had my main focus on the towns and the villages outside Bamako in the east and the west in the middle and in the north has been quite difficult because there have been very strict Islamic ruling system there. And also the UN soldiers have been there fighting with the is and Buko Haram and all these different Islamist groups. But to see also now we see in towns and in villages around Mali, there are happening. People are getting saved. We see thousands of people given their lives to Jesus, we planting churches. And so it’s really, really amazing to see.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:18):
I pray that in 20 years we will see another great success
Hans Martin Skagestad (12:22):
In Mali. Yeah, that’s my prayer because what you can see with the Malian people in the Burino Falls, so as they call themselves Burkina base, that’s what they call themselves. But what you see, they’re almost the same people. They’re very similar. They’re very, very alike. It’s like a Scandinavian, we say the Swedes and the Norwegians are quite the same people. We speak the same language and it’s the same, but you don’t see the same revival and the same impact that the Christianity has in Burkina as in Mali. But my prayer is that it will be a breakthrough in Mali. And I believe so. I believe that Mali will be the next nation that has a breakthrough in West Africa because it’s the border to the North Africa and it’s just the Sahara is on top of Mali, and then you go to North Africa, and I believe that revival will come in Mali. And that’s my prayer.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:21):
And so approximately how many campaigns have you done in Mali?
Hans Martin Skagestad (13:26):
In Mali, I have done, let me see, I just have to maybe 20, 25 campaigns in Mali. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:37):
Wow. Now let’s talk about this ministry here. Tell me the name in Norwegian and then tell me what it means in English.
Hans Martin Skagestad (13:45):
The name is, and if you would just translate it straight on it’s evidence of faith.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:52):
And actually there is great evidence of faith right here. The founder Ariel Everett.
Hans Martin Skagestad (14:02):
Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:03):
He comes from this small village, less than 2000 people. And in the auditorium here, there’s room for over 2,500 people to pack it there. And so you build a bigger auditorium than for, but ever since the early 1960s, people have been coming here for revival every single summer. And so the focus of this ministry kind of talk to me about historically what’s been the focus of the ministry.
Hans Martin Skagestad (14:36):
The focus has started with and then always been our main focus is of course on reach. That’s the beginning. Reaching the unreached. Yeah, reaching the unreached. And then the next have always been through the local missionaries. Local evangelists. We’ve always been like a mission organization that focus on the local missionaries. And in the beginning that was a big discussion. A lot of Christian leaders didn’t like that because if you are a missionary, you have to be white, you have to be in teach in the right way, you have to be in this or that. But Arnold always thought that the best way is to send out the local missionaries. We have a saying that the local missionaries, they know the language, they know the culture and they like the food. And for us who have been traveled to many countries is not always, we know the language.
(15:29):
It’s not always, we understand the culture. And I can say it for myself, it’s not always, I like the food. So that’s what we’ve been thinking that to send out and give support to the local workers, it’s really important because we believe that of course we believe in western missionaries we believe to send people, but we believe also in helping the local ones. So that has been the main thing. And we have done a lot of things during the 60 years. We have had TV channel, we have one we call a correspondence course, a new Life that’s introduction to the Christian faith that was written in 1972 by our Ledson. And from 72 to now, there are 7 million people that has given their life to Christ through that correspondence course. So it has been one of the tools that we have used and the local missionaries have used. We use it often in our campaigns. So we give it to the people that comes. So they have an introduction now. In the beginning of course it was in paper, now we have an app and we use also digital things to use that correspondence course. And then of course campaigns also is a part of our ministry. We have done, I don’t know, hundreds of campaigns during the of ministry and also been important door opener into nations, into towns and into villages. So that’s also a part of what we have done,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:11):
What a tremendous legacy. And just recently you were named to help lead the organization, which is you’re standing on the shoulders of spiritual giants, which is amazing, but you’re 36 years old. So what is that like to suddenly be given this mandate, this vision and you’re a steward of it, but then also looking to the future?
Hans Martin Skagestad (17:44):
It has been some ways also challenging because after Orel, there was his son Runa who took over the organization when he died. And he has been leading it for 15 years. He’s a totally different person than his father. And I think that’s a strong, strong thing. We say Norwegian, that he has not taken his shoes, his father’s shoes, but he’s walked in his own shoes, not trying to be his father, but to be himself. And this summer in our summer conference, I was prayed for and I was named the next leader, me and Runa will. And I’m very happy for that because we are going to lead it together for some years. And then I will take over after him. We don’t know how many years that will be. It can be two years, it can be five, but we’ll see. But for me it’s been really good because I think it’s good to have a good transitions.
(18:48):
And for me I think that’s really great. But of course I’m very humble in going into this leadership and to take over, as you said, I’m 36 years old, but for me it has been really important to, it’s about the calling. It’s not about necessarily the gift, all the gifting and all these things, but it’s the calling. And I have known this for many years that I’m going to be the successor or takeover after him. But we have talked about it maybe in five years. But for me, it have been a long process for me because this is a big organization. It has been have great impact in the whole country.
(19:37):
But I have felt like God has called me to do this and I think I’m really looking forward for the future. But as the question you ask, what I see in the future, to be honest, I see, I think it’s the same thing in America as it is in Europe. You see a generation growing up now that don’t know much about mission, at least they don’t know about reaching the unreached. And for me, I feel that’s probably my most important calling, is to really reach the next generation with mission, to get them to understand the importa of Jesus commandment, of going out to the nations and reaching those who have never heard about Jesus. Because I think we need generations growing up now, really going after the souls, after the unreached. So that’s probably what I see is the most important thing for me is to really reach the next generation.
(20:43):
Because like our organizations who have been 60 years, the last 10 years we really worked on, because we have our supporters. A lot of have been from the beginning when it started for six years. So we have had a lot of old supporters, but the last 10 years we have really changed and really reached younger supporters and that are connecting with our mission work. So that’s also one thing that I’m working on and spending a lot of time to, we have what we call partner churches. We partner with churches in Scandinavia, Scandinavia group. We also have some few in America actually that we work together with. And that’s also important because we really believe in the local church. We believe in the local church in Europe, in America, but we also believe in the local church in Africa, Asia where we work. So we really want to connect with the local church. That’s really important for us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:42):
And so when someone chooses to support you, they’re helping to support missionaries in different countries, not Western missionaries, but national missionaries. And so what does that look like? How long would you support someone for how much does it cost to support someone in a nation in Africa? Yeah,
Hans Martin Skagestad (22:09):
So we usually say that we support a local missionary for five years. Then we want them to be self supported, that they have built a church or built the ministry so they can self-support themself. So we support them. But in some areas where it’s more difficult because there are different areas, some are tougher and in some areas they can have, in two years they can have a church for 200 people. In some areas they can be there for five years, but still the church is maybe 30 because it’s a tougher area. So some we also support longer, depends on the situation, but we always work with local leaders. We have a local leader in every country that we work together with, and he’s in charge of that country. And then we support through his ministry or her. We also have some women that are leaders in different countries.
(23:12):
So that’s how we work. We support locals. And it depends on the country how much it costs because we say that we don’t give them a Norwegian salary or American salary, but what we give is that so they can support themselves and their family with food and what they need. So we often go on the average salary in the country depends. In some countries it can be a hundred dollars in some it can be $70. Some countries $200 depends on the country and the costs of living in the country. So that’s very different. In China, it’s a totally different number than in Burkina Faso for
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:53):
Example. And you’re really focusing on the most on reach parts of the world.
Hans Martin Skagestad (23:59):
We work mainly in what we call the 10 40 window with the most unreached countries are the most unreached people groups are. So we work in those countries. So we have always done that. I think actually evidence of faith have worked in almost every country in the world now as maybe some few we haven’t been, but during our 60 years of history, we have been in almost every country. But now we work in 25 countries, I think it is that we work in now.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:32):
And approximately how many national missionaries would you support?
Hans Martin Skagestad (24:37):
We have 1,400 national missionaries around the world that we support.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:43):
That’s amazing. And I’m sure they’re seeing amazing fruit.
Hans Martin Skagestad (24:47):
Yeah, that’s the thing. If you take the last three years through both our local missionaries during and through our campaigns and the different work we do, the last three years, we have planted 6,000 churches the last three
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:06):
Years. So if someone is listening and they say, oh, I want to help support a national missionary, how can they get in touch with you? What’s your website?
Hans Martin Skagestad (25:18):
You can go to evidence of faith.org. That’s where you can find, contact us. If you are a Scandinavian, you can go to tones. But for those who are not speaking our Scandinavian language, it’s evidence of faith.org and you can read more about our work and you can contact us there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:42):
Well, such an amazing ministry, such an amazing history here. And I believe that the best is yet to come. I think that the greatest harvest of souls in history is going to happen in just the next few years. And so we’ve seen great things happen in the past, but yet in the future I think we will see many more millions of people come into the kingdom of heaven.
Hans Martin Skagestad (26:08):
And I totally agree. And you can just see in the population growth of the world for us who are 60 years, if go 60 years back, the population has doubled almost. So the population growth in the world are great. So what we need is more workers. That’s why also I think local national workers are really important because we need more workers. We need also American workers, European workers. We need more workers out in the mission field. And what I think is very different, because sometimes I feel like I’m living in two worlds. You have the western world and you have what we do in Africa, Asia, north Africa, and all this. Often we don’t maybe see so much fruit in the Western world, we don’t see so many revivals, we don’t see a lot of people coming to Christ. But it’s a totally different thing in the 10 40 window and in Africa, Asia, because there are longing for the gospel. And it’s just a question, how many workers can we send? What it’s about? It’s to send more workers and to send out more workers because the harvest is great.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:23):
Yeah. Even Jesus said the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. We just need more laborers.
Hans Martin Skagestad (27:28):
We do that. We need that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:30):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I appreciate
Hans Martin Skagestad (27:34):
It. Thank you so much to have me, Daniel.
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Harald Mydland | The Life & Legacy of Aril Edvardsen
During his lifetime, Aril Edvardsen was the most famous Scandinavian evangelist in the world. Today I interview Harald Mydland, who wrote a book about the history of this great evangelist. On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, you will discover the exciting faith and visionary thinking of one of God’s heroes.
Read the Book: https://www.akademika.no/humaniora/teologi-og-religion/fra-sarons-dal-til-jordens-ender/9788230202708?popup=close
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Harold Midland. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Harald Mydland (00:12):
Thank you so much.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:13):
Now we are sitting in a very historic place in the nation of Norway. It’s a very small village. And help me with, what is the name of the village
Harald Mydland (00:24):
Kvinesdal
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:25):
Okay. And we are in the headquarters of a ministry of one of the greatest European evangelists who has ever lived. And so tell me about how this place got started and what God has done.
Harald Mydland (00:42):
His name was Aril Edvardsen and he was born in this place. He grew up as an ordinary kid, a young boy. And in the age of 17, 17 years old, he received Jesus. And he was saved in a very powerful way because he was supposed to go to see a movie at cinema. But a guy convinced him to come to a meeting in a local church. He came with him and was listening to the message. I think he was called by God listened to the message. And when they gave the altar call, he came forward. He gave his life to Jesus. And when he explained afterwards what happened, he said that he felt that God’s power hit him in such a powerful way that he understood if I let this happen to me, I will never be the same. It’ll be so. It was so powerful. It was so, he knew very well, I have to make a decision. Will I go for this or will I stop it to happen? So he surrender himself to Jesus. And he was born again in a very powerful way. And the same evening his wife were at the local hospital.
(02:05):
She had just given birth to the first child and she was laying in the room, ar came into the room and said, Curry, I have given my life to Jesus and you have to give your life to Jesus as well. And she was totally shocked. But he prayed for her and led her to Jesus the same evening. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:27):
Then so the first person he led to Jesus was his own wife, his
Harald Mydland (02:29):
Wife, his wife. And then very soon he started to preach in the local area. And God’s power were really over him. He was anointed in a powerful way. He was very bold. So he started to do campaigns in the local area, but the tent campaign, he had the tent oral, put it up many places and went around. And then in 1960, he was 21, 22 years old, came to my place, my church, my home place, just one hour from here by car. And he was, they called him to be an evangelist to staying in our church for four months. And then in March 26th of March, 1960, in the afternoon before he was supposed to have a meeting in the evening, he was staying in a room and God’s Holy Spirit came into that room. It was so powerful. He just laid down on the floor and go start to speak to him. I said, I call you to be a world evangelist, to go to the nations and you are going to do it by supporting and working together with local native people around the world. Very powerful. So the same evening, he decided to start support his first national evangelist in Brazil. And after that,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:04):
So how did he know about the evangelist of Brazil?
Harald Mydland (04:06):
He found a paper, a Christian magazine. So he continued to preach. He also went also to Europe in a pioneer journey to see the mission field in Europe. He came back in 1961, but in 1962, something very special happened in a dream. One night he was dreaming and he saw himself in a dream walking up on a mountaintop close to this area. On the other side of the, well, there is a mountain top. He saw himself walking up on that mountaintop and he stood there watching and he saw this area. He saw this well in his stream. God showed him that. Well, it was like a journal at that time, many Ian bushes and nobody had thought about using it to anything. So God spoke to him and said, from this place, you’re going to put up a mission center and it’ll be a mission center to influence the whole world. It’ll be a place for the people in Scandinavia to come together in unity and to show Jesus Christ as a savior, but it’ll be a mission center to all the world from this place.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:20):
And so we’re talking about the place we’re sitting now. The place
Harald Mydland (05:23):
We’re sitting now in
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:24):
English, it’s called the Valley of Sharon. How do you say it in Norwegian. And it’s evidence of great faith because here in this place, there are more seats than there are people in the village. And so to make a place like this in a small village and to trust that God can fill the place, it shows that Ariel was an evangelist who had great faith.
Harald Mydland (05:50):
He had, it was not immense vision, it was not a vision. It was God’s vision given to him. And he really took it and made it his own. So the next day he went off to the mountain and saw the place and he saw the place. And then he went to, the two brothers owned the place. So he went to them and said, I want to buy your land. And he paid $3,000 at that time, a huge amount of money. I had no money. He had no money. He said when he said, I will pay it, give it, I will buy it and the money will come. So he started to give a magazine and write about it in a magazine. And people started to give. And he also came as volunteers because they made a first hall in the beginning. And they used it for many years, a small hall in the beginning. And the first summer convention took place in 1963. Not in this place because even was not prepared, they were not fulfilled. But 1963, there was some convention for the first time in the town, just over here. But from 1964, every year, one week, every year there has been an annual conference and get many people from many nations. But step by step earlier as written in my book, this is the story about, yeah, you have
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:14):
Really become the historian of the
Harald Mydland (07:17):
Movement. Yeah. This is the story about from year you can follow the work and the waves in a way, year by year, everything what happened, the main lines and also summary for each year, what happened. Now
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:30):
Your book is only in Norwegian.
Harald Mydland (07:32):
Yes. I’m sorry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:34):
You must put it in English so that the English speaking world can hear the story because I think still this story has the power to inspire
Harald Mydland (07:43):
People. Yeah, it’s so inspiring by it because he has supported thousands after thousands of native workers. He has done crusades, he has done seminars and conferences. They started with radio, radio, Luxembourg. If some people know about radio Luxembourg, it was very famous radio. Many years ago, he started to broadcast on radio Luxembourg Evangelical message. Yes. And then step by step, he had his own radio work. And then after a while, television, when television came, he saw in the beginning there was only state television, only one channel. Not only all those channels we have today, but in the beginning only one channel. But God talked to him in Nairobi, in a hotel in Nairobi, 1970s, God spoke to him or eighties, God spoke to him and said, very soon mon, you say monopole, it’ll fall and he’ll be able to cover the world with the gospel using television. So he started to broadcast and he prepared and made a studio in this place below in the basement. And they were able to, Visian was to cover the world with the gospel from this place within two seconds, broadcast from here in two seconds all over the world. So he started, and from this place, they have been able to influence or impact almost all the world, more than 200 nations, radio, television campaigns, native workers, supporting them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:26):
And so at the height of the ministry, how many native workers would they have supported?
Harald Mydland (09:36):
They have tens of thousands altogether. I think today they have, I’m not sure because I’m not follow it so close today, but they have thousands in many nations. They have very, and so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:48):
Over the course of the ministry, tens of thousands. And what does that look like? Is it finding people that have just graduated from Bible school and helping them to go plant a church?
Harald Mydland (10:02):
The first thing is they need a calling. They need a passion. They need the calling from God to go out to raise the people in their own country. And then by that time got that vision. It was not common in Norway to support native workers. A missionary was a white man crossing the borders and coming to Africa or some places not using the natives. So he received a lot of opposition and doth because people didn’t believe in him or that kind of ministry. But it has proven itself so many times, very effective. And they have reached thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions, and planted so many churches all over the world, very effective.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:50):
Wow. Talk to me about what he was like when he was preaching. What was the main message that he preached?
Harald Mydland (10:59):
I will call him. He was the Norwegian or the European Billy Grham. Very simple gospel message, simple to understand, but at the same time, very deep. But he was able to preach it very simple in a way like Jesus. He used the parables and all, used a very, very simple language. But he was not formal educated, but he was able to talk with any professor in so many, many topics because he read books. He was really clever. And so he had a simple gospel Methodist, very powerful. And he was very clever to preach it. And also at the seminars, this is a second part of his ministry, the seminars. I follow him, many masons. I listened to him and he gave his sermons and teaching at the seminars. And he was not only given a seminar seminar in a way, he gave you his passion. When you sit, you sat down and listened to him. You received the teaching. And then also his passion, his power, his anointing. At the same time, it was very special. It’s not always, you can listen to a person and you receive not only his words, but his life, his passions is everything. Very interesting. So he has been able to influence so many people all over the world, many, many times again and again with seminars, Africa, India, Pakistan.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:41):
So what were some of the countries where they had a great effort in
Harald Mydland (12:46):
Africa? Of course, many, many places. I was with him to Rwanda. We were in Malawi, many places. He supported people in Kenya for many, many years. Kenya is one of the main in Africa, but also in India, in Pakistan or China. Nowhere is the are in China. They have been in Vietnam. They are all over the Asia, Myanmar or Burma, Bangladesh, many, many places in Asia or in Africa, all over the world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:21):
What were some of the things that he would say to people that would really connect with them? Do you remember a particular story or some of the things that he would say that would really inspire people?
Harald Mydland (13:39):
I think the main thing is the simplicity of the gospel. Because he was so centered on the cross of Jesus. He had many messages about the four persons close to his cross, Mary and Mary and all the four ladies. And they representing the four corners of the world. So he was so close and he was so concentrated on the cross of Jesus. So he’s preaching about Jesus. That was his main, that’s the power of the gospel of course. And he was very centered at the cross of Jesus, preaching Jesus up and down and describing everything. This is on the cross before the cross, all the pain. He went through all the suffering, everything. And he described everything and he was really painting it for you so you could follow it. You follow his steps and follow everything. So the cross of Jesus and the center of the gospel, that was all
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:40):
I heard. He had a very unique way of working with Muslims and building relationships with them. Talk to me about
Harald Mydland (14:49):
That. RG said that we have a common world, a common earth to share so we can cooperate with any person to make the world a better place for everybody. So he never spoke against any religion. He respected all the religions. He even wrote a book called Priests to the Kingdom where he described how you can approach Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims. So you have to know the culture, have to, he said many times you have to swim in the culture. You have to communicate with them in a nice way. So he had a passion, he had a capacity. He was so able to communicate with so many people. And I was with him several times. He arranged those peace conferences. Here we were in Pakistan, we had the Taliban people sitting in the conference. The extreme Muslims came to the conference because it was a peace conference. He was talking about peace and working together in unity, respecting each other, et cetera. And they sat down all these Taliban people and many extreme people came. And he did the same in many places in Africa as well call it peace work. And I was with him in 1998 when we went to Arafat to Gaza
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:22):
Erfa? Yes. Head of the Palestinian Authority.
Harald Mydland (16:25):
Yes. We went to his headquarter. We had some meetings in Israel and also in the Palestinian areas, GAA Bethlehem. We had a meeting in Bethlehem in the city center. And the mayor gave his love to Jesus where he was preaching. And then we went to Gaza. And while we were just walking on this beach, there’s a beach in Gaza, somebody called him from the office of aat, Joshua Rafat and invited us. We were 105 Scandinavian people in buses and a invited all of us to his office, the famous office. We came there and ar and Arafat, they sat together and Ariel spoke and said some words. And when we left that office, he went through the door and he took the hands of everybody and shake our hands. I know some of them felt a little bit, it was a little bit tough afterwards. We have shaken the hands of Arafat. But when I saw Arafat, I saw that little, he was in a way trembling and he didn’t look like he was 100% well. So I felt compassion with him in a way. This is the man who has terrified so many people. If we can say it, I dunno, we can say it on television, but when I saw him, I felt the compassion felt sorry for him.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:14):
And you come with peace.
Harald Mydland (18:17):
We came with
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:17):
Peace in the Prince of Peace.
Harald Mydland (18:19):
Yes, in the Prince of Peace. And we greet the people with peace.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:23):
And so evangelist er, he said he never wanted to retire. He wanted to go out with his boots on. Yes. And it turned out that that’s
Harald Mydland (18:32):
What happened. And what happened that happened, he went to Africa and he had a campaign outside Africa and it was the last campaign. And he was so tired, very tired. And he and his wife were supposed to have some days free off after the campaign, had to go to Mombasa. But he was so tired. And during the campaign several times he asked his son, Runa, who is in charge now, to come and take the article and take the finish of the meetings because he was so tired. But nobody was thinking that he was at come to the end of his life. But after the campaign on sbar, they went to Ka, went to Mombasa to spend some few days together before they came home. But during that day, the first day they said they made a summary, where are we now? What happened with our family?
(19:39):
And they were talking about all their grandchildren and the grand grandchildren and everybody. And they did a kind of a summary what have of their lives. But that night, that night after that, he suddenly became sick and Ka understood something is happening. So he died in Mombasa after that last campaign at Sanbar. Sorun was in Africa. Rooney son was in Africa. Kari called Ro and Rooney came to their place and he has talked about that many times. And also at summer conference this year, he came back to the same things that happened when he came to the place. When he saw his father laying in a terrible place. He saw his father there and die had died. And his mother stood at his side and car said to, can you feel what’s happens happening in the air? And Carl said, the calling is here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:57):
The calling is
Harald Mydland (20:58):
Here. So you have to take over. The calling is still here. The calling to go to them. Well with a mission.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:06):
And so the ministry has continued to have a big impact around the world. And so Ariel has gone to heaven now. But talk to me about what the ministry continues to do today.
Harald Mydland (21:20):
Well, we can see it here today because the founder, Richard Gunney from Belfast, he founded Ace Association of Campaign Evangelist Lists in 2002.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:33):
Yeah, I read Richard Dunning’s autobiography. And he from Ireland came here and learned Norwegian went to Bible school here. And that was really the start of his ministry was being influenced
Harald Mydland (21:48):
By the ministry here. It was the start. And he came as a student at the Bible school, opened the Bible school in 1968. And through all the years there’s so many evangelists and pastors and leaders has attended the Bible school. So Richard Gunning came to the Bible school in the 1980s. And there was a man from Africa, from Kenya because by that time they sent two people from Kenya. They came here for free to the Bible school. And Peter Carrano was one of them. And Peter rha became good friends. Rich was able to talk Norwegian and understand Norwegian. So he was the interpreter for Peter when he came in of the teaching at the Bible school. And after they finished the Bible school, they felt the calling both of them to go back to Kenya and to establish that reached the unreached ministry. And they started that ministry over 25 years ago up to today.
(22:49):
They have now by their work they have been doing all these years, they have founded 1400 churches in Kenya. But it started here at the Bible School. And then something very interesting happened because I started to work here in 1998. In year 2000, I went to Kenya. I met Peter, I met many other persons. And then I said to Arle, when I came home, can we invite Peter and Richie to the next convention and all? I said, yes, you can invite them. And they came here in 2001 and they shared a meeting. After the meeting they asked Arle, can you lay, put your hands on us and bless us. And he did. And after they went to the room and then God spoke to them, to Richard and said, now you’re going to expand your ministry. And that was the foundation that was in a way that how Ace became a reality.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:50):
Yeah. So we’re actually here for an ACE conference. Ace is the Association of Campaign evangelists. And many, it was in this place. Many Scandinavian evangelists are part of it. Yes. And yeah. Wow.
Harald Mydland (24:03):
It was founded. It was founded in the heart of Richard. But it happened here. After a meeting in this hall, he went to the room, spoke to him. He start to call some few of us. I was there the first time, the first year in 2002 in Belfast and some other guys also. And from that, it’s 21 years now. So now I think this is the biggest conference. After 21 year, 50 people for many nations and so many have come and they’re not here today. They come to be influenced and inspired. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:37):
So when you look at the history going all the way back to when Arro was 17 years old and gave his life to Jesus for the evangelist today, a young evangelist who wants to go and reach the world, what are some lessons that a young evangelist could learn from his life in ministry?
Harald Mydland (25:00):
There’s many thing, of course, but the main thing is that God can use anybody. It doesn’t depend on us. It depends on the calling. If God has called you, he will give you the ability and he will give you the power. He will give you the message. So we need to be open to receive his calling and say yes to his calling and follow Jesus. Jesus said, follow me. I will make you physic of man. Live close to Jesus. Read your Bible and open your heart to receive from him and follow in his footsteps. He can use anybody to change the world. Why not? Bunker did many big, big crusades in Africa. And he’s a very famous example for us nowadays. And of course Daniel NDA and many other many also people here. Also you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:51):
I, well, I’m so inspired by his life and ministry and it’s really wonderful to come here and to see the vision. I mean, this is a place where revival has spread around the world. And I think maybe he is one of the greatest evangelists. Even the airline of Norway. I saw a picture, they painted his face on the tail tail of one of their huge planes. And I think he might be the only evangelist to be honored in that way
Harald Mydland (26:29):
In history. In fact, we have two, that’s a second, but early is there. So it tells about, and when,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:38):
I mean what a thing to say that the evangelist was so good that the national airline honors him in such a way. Yes.
Harald Mydland (26:45):
When we had the funeral of our, in this place, the national tv broadcasted life, everything
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:56):
Across the whole country. Yes. Wow.
Harald Mydland (26:58):
They were here. So many guests.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:01):
If God can use a man from a small village in Norway, he can use anyone. He can
Harald Mydland (27:06):
Use anyone. Absolutely.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:08):
Wow.
Harald Mydland (27:08):
Yeah. His life is a testimony. Yes. Very simple person, but well, it’s, it’s like Mary more than Mary. Why did God choose Mary? Nobody knows what he did to us. Nobody knows, but he make us. I will make you physicians of man. So a willing heart. He will make
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:32):
A, what was he like in person when you interacted with him?
Harald Mydland (27:35):
He was so informal. When you come home to him, he will be relaxed like that. He was very informal. Very informal. And he was himself. I think when he talked with presidents in head, head of states, many places he at rest him like we are sitting here, not as the big man, but he talked to him like a human being. He was normal. I dunno how to explain it in English, but I think he moved their hearts. He reached their heart because he was so a human being and totally relaxed and very nice person, personality. He respected everybody and he behaved in a very nice way. He could talk to anybody. And they liked him. They liked him. So he became a friend to many, many people high up in the society, head of states. Wow. He was a friend. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:47):
Well, thank you so much for sharing his story. I think we can all be inspired that God can do something great even from somebody who starts out in even just a small village. Yes, exactly. Thank you for being on the Evangelism podcast. Okay.
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Scott McNamara | Jesus At the Door
Scott McNamara developed a powerful training tool for witnessing named, “Jesus At the Door.” On today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast, he shares how to use “Jesus at the Door” to lead people to Jesus. You will also learn about his innovative strategy for bridging the gap between when someone accepts the Gospel until they start attending church. Scott calls it the ABC’s of the Gospel: First they Accept the Gospel, then you provide a Bridge, finally they start attending Church.
Learn More About Jesus at the Door: https://jesusatthedoor.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Scott McNamara. Thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (00:10):
Thank you, Daniel. Great to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:12):
So your ministry is called Jesus at the Door, and you specialize in taking Jesus to the door of every person’s heart. Tell me a little bit about yourself and how your ministry got started.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (00:26):
Yeah, so Jesus at the door, this is kind of what it looks like. It’s framed around the picture of Jesus knocking on one side with the handle on the inside of the door. And then on the back we have nine imagery laden PowerPoints that articulate succinctly the message of the gospel. So really on one side is the image and the other side is the message. It’s a real simple way of presenting the gospel. I got into this, I guess accidentally. I was a musician, came to the Lord, wanted to continue to be a musician, and the Holy Spirit said, no, I have other plans for you. I want you to be an evangelist. And I wrestled with the Lord akin to Jacob, wrestling with the angel of the Lord, and he came away blessed with a hip replacement. I kind of feel that way. I came away blessed with Jesus at the door and also a hip replacement.
(01:08):
I realized that to be hip is to be holy, humility, integrity, and purity. The Lord began to speak to me about the hipness of my heart to say, only with a pure heart will you really see the things that I want you to see working through you. So yeah, I guess the Lord began to do surgery in me in terms of having a heart that ss to be humble, having purity inside of my heart. So that was the building blocks for becoming an evangelist and then becoming an evangelist. I guess it was just accidental. I just talked to everybody that moved about Jesus and somebody told me there’s a title for that. It’s called an Evangelist, and my pastor employed me to be an evangelist in 2014. He told me to stand on the street corner every day, all day. And I did that for three years.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:50):
And where was
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (01:51):
That? That’s in Northern Ireland.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:52):
Northern Ireland. Well, and so you stood there, you’re talking to people as they’re walking by and from all of your conversations you came up with some really great lines and ways of presenting the gospel to people. Talk to me how that process went.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (02:09):
Kind of. I mean, I can’t really take credit for it if I’m honest. I was sharing with people as best as I could, but the Holy Spirit would drop phrases into my heart and the phrases he dropped were the phrases that compiled Jesus at the door. So I don’t think I can take credit for it. I was more of a conduit than a creator, but I just received what the Lord gave me and I would write them down in my phone as the person walked away. And that’s what, over a number of months, we ended up with this and then it kind of grew legs and run around the world. Really
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:40):
Pretend that I’m someone that you’re talking to on the street corner and you’re using this tool in order to tell me about, just kind of walk me through how you would do it and how you would train someone to use this tool.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (02:52):
Yeah, I will do so. Obviously, evangelism is partnership and partnership is power. If we bring the partnership, he the power. So everything we do in Jesus at the door is in partnership with the Holy Spirit. I don’t believe you can do evangelism without partnership, but it is very significant for us to understand that this is not just some kind of scripture reading. This is an invitation into partnership. That’s kind of how I view it, because the Lord gave it. So with me going through this, I’m already locking in with the spirit, and that’s the most beautiful thing about it. So I would approach you, I’d say, excuse me, if you’re on the street, excuse me, sir, can ask you a quick question. Now if you say to me, no, I’m good, then I don’t believe he’s drawing you, John 6 44. Nobody can come unless the father draws them. I’m saying, Lord, you are my evangelism partner. Who are you drawing? So even down to that detail, I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:41):
Let the Lord show. So you’re not pestering people, you’re giving an invitation, and then if they respond, then you’re ready to start to talk to
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (03:47):
Them. Yeah, yeah. Because important that we don’t possess, we partner but don’t possess. So I’m going to just partner and say, Lord, where are you going? So if you agree to allow me to talk to you, I would say, have you seen this picture before? Do you pray is what I would ask you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:01):
I pray sometimes. I don’t know if I’ve seen this
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (04:04):
Picture. You don’t recognize it. No. So this is Jesus knocking at the door of your heart. The handles on the inside only you can let him in. Now lots of people pray, praying can be like talking through the door. He’s there somewhere, but you don’t know him personally. And then I’m going to pause because for the born again believer, if I challenge you on the street as you and me as me, you would probably bring some rebuttal there. You’d say, well, I do know Jesus personally, so I’m going to let that simmer. But for the individual who doesn’t know Jesus, that’s going to sit and they’re going to think, man, I don’t know him. So there’s a couple of moments where they’re born. Again, believer can out themselves as it were, and say, I do know Christ. And that would be one of them. So then I would say, visualize wearing a backpack. If we filled it with all of your sin, would it be heavy?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:47):
Yeah, it
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (04:49):
Would. There’d be something in there. And that represents your debt with God. It stops you having a relationship with him. So if you owed the bank a million dollars and I gave you a check for that amount and you gave it to the bank, what would happen to your debt?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:04):
They paid off.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (05:04):
It’d be paid off. It’d be clear. Huh? That would be a good day for you. That’s what Jesus did when he died on the cross. He wrote your check, signed in his blood with your name on it. What is your name, sir? Daniel. Daniel. So he wrote you that Check Daniel in his blood, then he rose again, and today he’s standing at the door of your heart wanting you to cash it. If Jesus were here right now, would you let him in?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:26):
Yeah. If he showed up.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (05:28):
If you knew it was him. Yeah. So if we took a walk outside, can you see the wind? Can you visibly see the wind?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:34):
No. You can’t see the
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (05:35):
Wind. You can’t see it, but you can feel it, right? So like the wind, I believe Jesus is here right now. Could I pray for you to feel his presence?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:42):
Sure.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (05:42):
Yeah. Can I put my hand on your shoulder? Sure. Which obviously we don’t need the Holy Spirit, don’t need your hand. But I’m a tactile guy. So Lord, I pray for Daniel right now by the power of your Holy Spirit. Would you touch his heart? Let him feel your presence. Let him know you’re here. Let him know you are real. Change the atmosphere as he sits here and reveal how personal of a God you are, how personal of a father you are. You love him like a son and Him reveal you loved him in this moment, in Jesus’ name. Then I would ask you, what did you feel when I prayed for you? What did you feel?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:10):
Well, peace.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (06:12):
Peace. Come on. Amen. And Jesus was the prince of peace as we read in the Book of Eyes Eye. So what we’re doing is in essence we’re saying, if Jesus were here, would you let him in? And they’re saying, yeah, and then we have to prove that Jesus is here, but we can’t prove that, but the Holy Spirit can. So we give all control so that he can take full control and let the Holy Spirit do what he does best, which is shine. So after that moment, do you believe he’s here? What did you feel? Yeah. Okay, great. The last thing, now you’re on a road of life going this direction without Jesus, you need to turn from your sin, change direction and follow him. My question, I want to ask you and think before you answer, do you want to follow Him?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:53):
Yes
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (06:54):
You do. Praise God. So the Bible says invite him with your mouth, mean it in your heart. So just echo this prayer with me. Just say, Jesus, Jesus, forgive me for my sins.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:02):
Forgive me for my sins. I
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (07:03):
Open the door of my heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:04):
I open the door of my
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (07:05):
Heart. I make you Lord of my
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:06):
Life. I make you the Lord of my life.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (07:07):
Fill me with your spirit. Fill
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:09):
Me with your spirit. Amen.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (07:10):
Amen. Amen. So our prayer, we call it repent, believe, received just a simple way that we break down that prayer. Now after this is why I believe Jesus at the door is one of the most exciting evangelistic techniques on the planet. Because the Holy Spirit has not only given me a gospel presentation that is so easy and works with anybody, but he’s given me the part that happens next, the part that you do next. So Rahar, who’s a great inspiration in all of our lives, evangelist Bonnke said, he talked about the ABCs of evangelism as in the simple gospel, simple nuts and bolts of the gospel. I took that, sat with it, and the Holy Spirit fleshed it out for me. The A is the acceptance, and C is church, but B is the bridge. And there’s a lot of people who are saying amen on the acceptance, but they’re not coming to church and they’re not coming anywhere after because we have a great chasm, because we have no bridge, that we have nothing to walk them across.
(08:04):
So the Holy Spirit began to give me a bridge, a training materials. We have another card that is like this, that I train my team in how we access this bridge. Quick example, after you say amen, a lot of people will say, here’s a church card, let me send you a text or whatever. But in that moment, right, there is a very special moment like akin to the golden hour moment, the magic hour when the sun’s coming down that last hour, it’s a holy moment. It’s a moment where the sun is warmest to the horizon. It’s closest to the horizon. Your new believer, the sun, Jesus is warmer and closer than he’s ever been probably in their life. And we move past that moment quickly instead of hitting the pause. So what I’m going to do, I’m going to pause there. I’m going to say, sir, now you said you want to follow Jesus.
(08:48):
The last thing you said is you want to follow Jesus. You can’t follow somebody if you don’t move and you don’t follow with your words, you follow your feet. So you need to put faith to your feet and walk it out. If you can’t walk it out, don’t talk it out because talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words. And I’ll just use some phrases like this, which ultimately what I’m doing is flipping the script and saying that instead of this mentality of come to my church, come hang out with me, can be my friend, it’s about you. Now, you said you want to do this. You said that this is the life you said you want to follow. Let me help you do what you said you want to do. And that really, really helps creating a bridge for these individuals to walk across. And we do this through Jesus at the Door app where we have access to send the person. Just real quick, I’ll show you. So here we have,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:30):
Okay, so this is Jesus at the Door app, which is free. So how would you find it? You would go to the Apple app store,
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (09:36):
Go to the app store, type in Google, Jesus at the door, type in Jesus, Jesus at the door. And literally you just download that, it’s free and you can click onto, we have an equipping card and a follow-up card on the follow-up card we have. When this thing gets geofenced in a community, if we have a partner church there, right here with Nations, we can click on that button of the partner church, and we have a custom made follow-up card at a drop of a button we can send to a brand new believer that connects them to that local church. Now, what’s really important about this is the equity that I have with you is pretty much non-existent. You didn’t accept the Lord because I’m a nice guy. You accepted the Lord because through this picture, the Holy Spirit enlightened your soul to accept him.
(10:13):
So the equity lies here, not here. And what we’re trying to do is use equity. We don’t have be my friend, come hang out with me. We don’t have that, but this has it. So as soon as you say Amen, I say, I want to send you a picture of this image so you can remember the day you accepted Jesus. And then I send you, I get your name and number in front of you, and I send this image to you, but like a carrot with a stick hanging on the end of that stick is the carrot. And that’s what we want them to really have. And that’s all the information for the local church. And then we begin our follow-up process that way.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:43):
Wow. So this app is really valuable and people can go download it for free,
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (10:47):
Download it for free,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:48):
And then they can have access to the script, to the picture. They can use it on their phone. And I think this is brilliant. Everyone has their phone everywhere they go. And so maybe you’re in a line at a coffee shop and you feel prompted to share the gospel somewhere. You can pull it out and say, Hey, have you seen this picture before? Definitely. And the picture creates curiosity. So people start looking at it and then you can start the conversation. Amen.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (11:10):
And a picture paints a thousand words here. And we have, if you go to a equipping card and the globe in the top right corner, we have multiple languages in many countries what individuals can use. We now have users in 129 nations utilizing this app with accounts. If you go to new Believer’s info, you’ll store the name and the number and the date of your last salvation, it will log it right here and it’ll log all of them in date form. And then if you go to Jad stories, it drops a pin of an apple in the location with accepted Christ. And we have pretty much most continents around the world, apples that have been dropped by individuals.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:45):
And so you’re the evangelism director here at Nation’s Church in Orlando, Florida, pastored by Daniel Kalinda from Christ for All Nations. And so talk to me about what you’re doing here in the church to activate people for evangelism.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (12:01):
So what we do is we run trainings where all the everyday individuals, I mean our tagline is equipping everyday believers to win everyday people. That’s what Jesus the door is about. We’re not just equipping evangelists, we’re equipping Starbucks workers, single moms, doctors, bankers, dentists so that they can go back into their sphere of influence. This is not a hard presentation to begin with. It’s not offensive. It’s a picture that’s very anointed. This image was illustrated by a Manny woman and Oscar last year. This year the Oscars, Charlie MCee won an Oscar for the best animated story. He illustrated this image, very famous artist, people. We’ve seen people cry and say things like, I saw that in a dream and get saved just from looking at the picture. So what we do here is we train everyday believers in our church and then we send them back into their sphere of influence to be fruitful. And we have a new believer group. So when people get saved, we don’t just obviously leave them there, we invite them into our new believers groups. And in those new believer groups, we filter those people through into the Sunday service where we have a reserve section on a Sunday morning at Nations Church for all these new converts to come in and feel like part of the family.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:07):
And then you also go and travel to other churches, help train them in evangelism. And you have teams that have been trained in Jesus at the door and they go and teach other people how to get involved. So what does that look like if you go into a church and do a training?
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (13:23):
Yeah, so I would go in on a, we call it evangelism made easy weekend. I’ll go on a Saturday and we do an all day training on a Saturday that involves classroom training, involves role play. So the individuals get a chance to go through it to try it. And then we take ’em onto the streets for a couple of hours, do a breakout session. We come back, we have glory stories, share what the Lord did and people’s lives. And then I preach on the Sunday morning at the church as well. So that’s kind of like the evangelism made easy weekend.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:49):
And if someone wants to connect with your ministry, find out more about you, maybe download the card or support your ministry, maybe invite you to come to their church. What’s your website?
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (14:00):
So jesus@thedoor.com is the website. And then you can get us on Instagram, Jesus at the door, Facebook, we have a YouTube channel with many training videos just to Jesus at the door. Again, many resources available there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:13):
And what would you say to someone who they feel like they know they should witness, but they’ve never really gone out there and actually talked to someone. How would you encourage them to take a step of faith and to actually start up a conversation?
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (14:28):
Well, first of all, I would look below the hood or look at the root level. Why should we share you? Maybe you hear evangelist saying, go and share. Go and share. But the person hasn’t really captured the heart of why should I share? Well, Jesus, when he gave the great commission, he didn’t give it to evangelists for starters, he gave it to disciples. So every disciple has been mandated, commissioned, and to share the gospel and to make disciples not just share the gospel, but to make disciples. So this is something that we all have to do and one day we’re going to look our Lord in the eye and we’re going to have to give account for the talents and how we stewarded that which he gave us. So Jesus at the door is the way that I’ve seen in my life the easiest way that is the most anointed, that you can share the gospel in a matter of minutes.
(15:13):
I’ve seen children who’ve read this thing and people have started crying and got saved. When my boy, my son was seven, he read this to a family of four. The mom was covered in tattoos. He got two steps down. The man started crying and my seven year old son led them all to the Lord. I baptized free of that family on the same day. I baptized my son in a parking lot from a seven year old boy shaking and nervous and whispering this card, but it was the power of the Holy Spirit that he released and that’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:41):
What happened. And so if God can use a seven year old, he can use anyone. Amen. What if someone that you’re talking to with the card is more antagonistic than I was? I was pretty acceptance saying yes. But some people want to get into argument or they want to start discussing more philosophically some of the different questions. How do you bring them back to the gospel?
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (16:01):
So first of all, it’s key to note that Jesus does what we call a reaping tool. Now, when I first entered onto those streets of Northern Ireland, I didn’t know what I was doing. I wouldn’t have called myself an evangelist. But the Holy Spirit spoke to me within the first two weeks. He said, imagine all these people are like apples on a tree. So I did that. I saw all these people walking around. He said, when you share, I’ll shake. And I had a revelation of what evangelism was. Up until that point, I thought it was about how good or bad or able I was, but the law was showing me. It was about how available I was willing to make myself. You see, some apples will fall, some will move a little and some won’t move at all. My job is not to make those apples fall or not. All I have to do is be willing to catch them when they fall. We’re all priceless apples that one day we were apples on a tree until somebody caught us. And the Lord is shaking people’s lives. And all he asked us to do, like the apostle Paul told Timothy, preach the gospel in season and out of season. So all we need to do is be willing to share faithfully. And I believe the Lord will do miracles in that way.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:01):
Amen. Well, I think it’s absolutely brilliant what God has given you, and it’s such an important tool for sharing the gospel. I think it’s a great way to start out for someone to just have the bullets. If you have something in your hand that you can read, even if you forget, you can look down and read it and go through the pictures with people. I think it’s a very powerful tool for people. And so if you’re listening and you want to be used by God, especially in personal witnessing going out, I encourage you to go find Jesus at the door, download it to your phone, get the app, go to the website, get the cards, and use them to lead people to Jesus. Amen. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast.
Scott McNamara | Jesus at the Door (17:45):
Thank you, sir. Thank you for having me.
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The Legacy of T.L. & Daisy Osborn | LaDonna Osborn
T.L. & Daisy Osborn were great evangelists who had a profound impact on my life. Today I talk about the Osborn legacy of faith and ministry with their daughter Dr. LaDonna Osborn. From the moment she was born, she was involved in their worldwide evangelism efforts. On this episode of The Evangelism Podcast, she shares some of the secrets to their amazing success.
Learn more about Osborn Ministries International: https://osborn.org/
Order T.L. Osborn’s Books:
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Dr. LaDonna Osborn. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (00:12):
It’s a wonderful privilege to be with you, Daniel. You know I’m one of your fans.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:17):
Well, Dr. Osborn, you were born into the premier family of evangelism. You’re the daughter of Dr. T.L. Osborn and Daisy Washburn Osborn. And you have been involved in evangelism from your very earliest memories. That’s right. Tell me about what God has done through your life.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (00:41):
Dr. King. I love to say that you’ve achieved so much. Your influence is tremendous. I’m just honored to know you. Anyone who knows the story of my mother, father, the Osborn Ministry, they would remember that there was a real turning point in their lives that transitioned them into what they’re known for today as the pioneers of mass miracle evangelism all over the world. Now, it happened that the year I was born is when that transformation took place. So because of my mother’s decision, we traveled as a family. So my brother was a couple of years older than me and myself is nine months old mother, father. We began traveling the world. So I grew up on the platforms of world evangelism, moving from nation to nation, living among the people of the cultures of the world, going to the river to wash our clothes, boiling our water, going to the market. This was my life and almost every day we were on a crusade platform in the evening, four or five in the evening, in front of a multitude of people, my father or mother preaching about Jesus and seeing miracles of healing. So imagine from, can I say babyhood? This was my norm. What a wonderful heritage. So I didn’t live in the United States until I was 14.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:06):
How old were you when you first preached on a platform and prayed for people to be healed?
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (02:13):
It was in Ghana, Accra. When I was 10 years old, it was 1957 and during this great crusade, my father and the pastors there organized what they called a kid’s crusade and they put up a huge tent. Now, we didn’t use tents overseas, but they had this big tent and I’m told that about 10,000 children packed in that tent. And so my brother and I were both told to preach. Now he was a little bit older. This was in 1957, so I’m 10 years old, he’s 12. And it scared me to death. Only God knows how timid I was. What I do today. It’s only by the grace of God. So I went to my father and I told him I was so scared, but of course he didn’t excuse me at all. I said, what will I preach? And his answer was so profound, I love it. He said, find an example in the Bible of Jesus with a person, a sick person. And when you preach, just tell the story. And when you’ve told the story, tell them Jesus will do the same for them. They’ll accept Jesus and then pray for the sick. That was so simple. Do you know I can say yet today this would be how I minister among
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:47):
The, and that’s good advice for any evangelist. Find what Jesus did, tell the story and then pray for people.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (03:53):
That’s right. And so I know that it looked like all these children were accepting Christ and the miracles of healing. Now I didn’t do anything but say, Jesus will do this for you and anyone’s sick. I did what I saw my father do. Lay your hand where you want Jesus to lay his hand. And they did. And then of course, the platform full of these children giving testimony. I just stood there listening to their testimonies because it had nothing to do with me. This is the work of Jesus among people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:22):
Well, your father had such a tremendous impact on my ministry. I remember when I was very young, my parents were missionaries in Mexico and I found some copies of his books, the book on soul winning the book on healing the Sick. And they’re very simple, but just read through those and planted such great faith in my heart. And then there were so many pictures in the books of all the different countries that your family went to, minister and the big crowds of people. And God used those pictures as a seed in my heart to ask God to open those same doors in our ministry. Isn’t that wonderful? And so now we’ve taken some of the same messages, some of the same ideas, the concepts and seeing that it works all over the world.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (05:15):
It works. Jesus hasn’t changed. And if we’ll talk about him, he’ll do the same things I’ve learned long ago. If you talk about Jesus, he shows up.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:27):
Now, Osborn Ministries has had an impact in many more lives than just my life. In fact, this year you’re doing a series of videos documenting a hundred years of impact around the world, and you’re telling stories of what has made Osborn ministry so effective over the years. Let’s talk about some of those things. I think one of the first things that people know about is the Mass Miracle Crusades and praying for the sick. How did those start?
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (06:03):
Well, the Mass Miracle Crusades began after Jesus appeared to my father. That was the turning point that really changed him from being an ordinary evangelist or pastored, really transformed him into a Jesus man. That was the only label that he would wear. And so when we began, or they began in 1948, these mass evangelism events, it started, started very simply because there’s lots of people and if you’ll get all the pastors to work together, and one of the things they inaugurated was to go to an open field, not a stadium, not an enclosed auditorium, but go to an open field like a soccer field where everyone is level. No one is elevated, no v i p section, no aisles, no chairs. It’s an open field. And then advertise, bring the sick. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. So that was always the theme of their crusades.
(07:15):
And the sick would come. It just shocked the pastors that my father or mother would be so bold as to tell the people if Jesus is the same today, he will do miracles today. And if he doesn’t, we’re liars and you can run us out of town. Oh my goodness. That made pastors nervous because many of these in those days, as you would understand, they didn’t really have miracle ministries. Most would believe that Jesus could and might, but they could never be confident that he would or why he would. So this was how the miracle mass miracle Evangelism began. The miracles became the hallmark of this ministry from that early beginning. So miracles, you talk about Osborn, anything, its miracles are part of it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:10):
Another very successful program that you had was supporting national missionaries, and today you pulled out some of your books and your history to show me we’re looking at pictures of missionaries in these nations. They were national missionaries supported by Osborn Ministries. And over the years you’ve supported over 30,000. That’s right. Exactly. And they have gone on to found great churches, some of them huge denominations. Talk to me about why that program was so effective.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (08:48):
Well, part of it was because it was timely. It was at a time that denominations who were sending missionaries to various nations, they were building Bible schools and they were graduating these wonderful students, men and women, and yet there was no way for them to support their families after graduation. So the timeliness of the vision, the Lord gave my parents to come into this environment, into this gap and provide temporary financial assistance to a Bible school graduate recommended by their leaders so that these evangelists would go into unreached villages, unreached areas, and give full time to gospel ministry. That was an insane idea because it was at a time that number one, what we would call nationals, they were not respected the dynamic of foreign missionaries. The system at the time was not really to appreciate the national. It was more to depreciate them that they were inferior and it was the effect of the colonial epic.
(10:07):
We’ve talked about that, that under colonialism, it was just the mentality that these people are inferior, they’re not educated, they need our help. We have to come in and help govern them because they don’t know how to do it. So of course, different European powers who colonized, they had different models. Britain was very benevolent. Other European nations like Belgium or France, not so very exploitive. So that was the mentality of the day in which the National Missionary Assistance program began. So to come in and say, you are important, we’re going to call you a missionary. You’re not a foreigner, but you are a missionary. You’re going someplace with the gospel. And then with just a little assistance, they would be able to establish a completely self-supporting work. Usually within one year, sometime 18 months, two years will be a long time. And so it’s through that program, Dr. King, that we can calculate more than 150,000 churches have become completely self-supporting all over the world. Now, all of these, they don’t have our name. This was assistance funneled through the denominations who had missionaries in these nations. So every church that was established, it would carry that denominational name. These were all Pentecostal denominations. So wonderful things were happening. Isn’t that beautiful?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:45):
It’s amazing. Now, another major area that Osborn Ministries has had impact is through literature distribution. I remember I was in Congo, Africa and I was preaching at a little church. It was a small building, but it was packed full of people and it was dirt floor. Chickens were running around. But I looked over at the pastor and he had his Bible that on top of his Bible, he had a book covered in duct tape. And I said, what is that that you’re reading? And he showed me, it was an Osborn book. He said, 20 years ago, Tal Osborn came to my country. They distribute this book and my father got a copy. He became the pastor. And for 20 years he preached from this book, he says, now I’m the pastor because my father passed away and now I’m preaching from this book. That story has been duplicated time and time again around the world. You have printed literally tons of material and distributed them around the world
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (12:46):
For many years. The statistic we were able to calculate, we were not only printing in about 132 languages, but we were distributing to the tune of one ton per working day. Wow, isn’t that amazing? So this scattering of gospel seed was just one of the things we did. And do you know Dr. King in that book? I’m talking by this time, the sixties, the seventies when these massive distributions were happening. It was said, I don’t know who decided this, but it was a missionary statistic that every tract was read by an average of five people. Isn’t that amazing? So that was in that same e book that gospel tracks were being produced. I remember once we were in a country, it was an African country, I don’t know which one. And we were visiting in villages and we were just going down the paths and we were visiting people in their huts and we were just being there inviting people to come to an event.
(13:54):
And I went in one of these huts and I saw on the wall of a very disintegrating mud wall inside the Hutt, there was tacked a gospel track, one of our tracks, and it looked like it had been handled by a thousand people because the edges all had finger oil. The edges were all frayed, the edges had been torn off a little bit, but that track was up there. The only thing on that wall. And I remember thinking, my God, thank you that in this village there’s that track that’s probably been read by everyone, read by everyone. Isn’t that see what we are talking about, these ideas that God gives people to proclaim his gospel among people who are often forgotten, who otherwise will never hear of Christ. These ideas, every idea reminds me how big our God is and how much he cares and how creative he is and how he will drop ideas in the heart of anyone who just caress about people, wants to do the work of Christ and fulfill this great commission. So these ideas, these are just ideas that came at the right time. Did you know Dr. King? I think I can say this and you’ll understand. Through the decades of this ministry,
(15:32):
New programs for evangelism have been developed and launched throughout, such as you’re talking about the tracks, the audio recordings, the equipment to play, we call lingua tape units, the Docu miracle films, the projectors, all of these were programs that we could share, empower, equip others. Do you know every program began because we had more money than we knew what to do with. Is that amazing? In this day and age, I’ve
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:08):
Never had that
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (16:08):
Problem, never had that problem. No one does. These days times have changed. A lot of it had to do with mission opportunities for people. But when money would accumulate, my mother and father, I can remember because I was part of these prayer meetings, go to their knees and say, Lord, we have this money. What should we do with it? And out of those prayers, a new idea would be birthed. I love that as a record that God will give ideas when you ask. Well, I believe ideas are the opportunity to involve people. So then they participate and that’s the money. We don’t keep it. We pass it on. Invest it in the work of evangelism. So there’s never a money shortage as long as we have God on our side and we represent him properly.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:59):
Another secret of the success of Osborn Ministries was really the philosophy behind the ministry that you did. I remember that when Dr. Osborn came to speak at Victory Bible College, when I was 18 years old, I was a student, he would stand up and start reading off the names of all the different places in the former Soviet Union, all the different, and when your mother went to heaven, he took, as I understand it, some of the money from his. He
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (17:37):
Took all of her insurance money, insurance money, and I talked about it. She had $50,000. That’s not much. But all of that was invested in resources in Russian, a country we had never been in, a language we had never published in.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:54):
And so you went and you did events across the 11 time zones. Yes, exactly. Of Russia. Exactly. And in every time zone proclaiming that Jesus is alive, that even during a time when communism was the philosophy of the land in telling everyone that God is dead, that your father would take the books and show the pictures, says, while people were saying God is dead all over the world, God was proving that he’s alive by doing miracles in the lives of people.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (18:32):
Exactly. And we were able to translate and print. I’m sure we spent more than the 50,000, but we distributed, we gave every attendee 10 books, a library in Russian of gospel materials. And just because you’re an evangelist, I share this with you. I had just as you have ministered among people in so many nations, so many different cultures, in so many religious environments like the Muslim people, the Buddhists, the Hindus and people of deep religions, that six weeks that I was ministering across the former Soviet Union, I had a brand new experience. Because when you look in the eyes of people who’ve never had a concept that there’s anything out there, not a pegan idea, not they’re worshiping an alligator or a tree or Muhammad or Allah or any of the Buddhist deities, all of these people of faith have a concept of a cosmos and a spiritual something, a deity.
(19:45):
Now that deity may not have a compassionate heart, may not be involved in their lives, but they have this concept. It was a brand new experience, may look in the eyes of people that had been told they were nothing, no concept of anything out there. When they die, die like a dog. Can you imagine this? What impressed me so deeply, and it still does when I’m minister into communist in communist areas, the communal value is all that exists. And yet we come with a message saying, you can make a personal decision for Jesus Christ. That’s a brand new thought. Whoever told them they could make a decision. No. It’s the communal that you can have a better life. We know how to relate to the Hindus who can’t believe that because they might come reincarnated back as a lower being animal cockroach. We know how to deal with that. But when you think you can’t even make a decision, your personal value is nothing. And then he comes and God loves you and he comes to welcome you into his family. He cares about you and what a revolutionary concept. So it was in that environment that I began to develop. It wasn’t where it was first birth, but where I really developed the message of God’s big picture that you know very well where I present the message of scripture in these four scenes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:25):
Yeah, you have God’s creation, Satan’s deception, Christ substitution and our redemption.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (21:33):
Hallelujah. Restoration, our restoration. Think about that, that we don’t just leave people crying at the foot of the cross. After you’ve made that decision for Christ, your life’s restored, restored to what God intended in the beginning. What a beautiful message that relates to every person in every circumstance of life. But we tell it in a way that they can grasp it and believe on this, Lord Jesus. Oh, have you ministered in Russia or the China?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:05):
I was in the city of St. Petersburg many years ago with Pastor Billy Joe Doherty. He was doing events there right
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (22:14):
After. Yes, I remember that. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:15):
Communism fell and it was in the stadium, the Olympic stadium and filled with people and they would run forward for the altar call. It was so beautiful at that time.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (22:26):
So beautiful. When we’re talking about the National Missionary program and you ask about its success, I mentioned it was the right time. This is what we look for in evangelism. My mother used to say that revolution in any country is the time for evangelism. So we don’t wait until everything’s safe. When things are uprooted and there’s change, that’s where we come in and bring the truth of Christ. But you see in the Soviet Union, as soon as that wall or a curtain, was it a wall or a curtain? I never can remember the bamboo curtain, I guess, and the Soviet wall. Okay, we’ll agree on that. There was so much opportunity. Now with the opportunity, it was a lot of strange teaching. Everything floods in when there’s space. But it’s okay because then the gospel supersedes everything. The gospel works, every message doesn’t work. The gospel works.
(23:26):
And so at the right time, we flood. Let me tell you, we flooded those 11 times zones. Actually that’s just Russia. But all of this area, the Poland and Ukraine and Yugoslavia and all of the Bal, the Slavic, the Kazakhstan, all the stones, I should say, all the Uzbekistan, all of these, they were all speaking Russia at that time. They don’t speak Russian. Now, only Russia, the rest have reclaimed their own national languages. So look at the timing. When we were able to come in and saturate that land with gospel truth, I see God at work in these things. So it’s not just a method, it’s not just a country. It’s God’s timing. In the midst of political and religious and social dynamics and evangelists who are motivated by the spirit of God, they sense the timing. And that’s why we support evangelists and we affirm evangelists. We are in relationship with evangelists because we’re walking to a different drummer. It’s not just about building an empire for ourselves or no, no. This is about the timing for expanding the kingdom of God. That’s what you do all over the world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:49):
What were some of the greatest lessons you learned from being around your mother and father?
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (24:56):
Oh my. So many. One of the main things that I would say I learned a lifestyle of consistency. See, we traveled, we were moving all the time being countries many months. But then we would move on. And so our family had a schedule, the consistency of schedule. We went to bed at the same time every day. We woke up at the same time. We would make our beds, get dressed and eat breakfast, clean up the kitchen, whatever there was to clean up, did it to altogether. And then we had family devotions after family devotions every day. My father would do his thing, which was studying and preparing for ministry, be later that day. And my mother taught my brother and me school, now it’s called homeschooling. Then it was correspondence. We had a military program, a wonderful program. And so we would study from nine to noon and then we went to work.
(26:02):
So my mother was brilliant at keeping us busy. So as soon as we could do anything, we were involved. We had assignments. We could pick out letters on a typewriter. We went to the post office, collect our mail. Remember we had an office to run magazines to produce, and we were out of the country a lot of the time, pick up our mail, answer correspondence, and then go to the crusade field and at four or five in the evening every day, that was a schedule. So that consistency, putting God first, there was never an opportunity to be moody or to not feel like doing something. It was just a different time. So that consistency I learned through our lifestyle. And I think that that pattern of consistency kept us feeling safe as children because we were always with different people. Names will never remember eating new kind of food and new languages, new cultures, but we felt safe.
(27:07):
And I’m sure that it was because of that framework of our family life. A lot of families now are ministering together with their children. And I hope they all understand that you can create safety for your children. And then of course, I learned always to prioritize the word of God, the scripture. Our pattern was as soon as my brother and I could read, we would go around and each read five verses starting in Genesis, going through the Bible and starting over again. And after every five verses, it was usually my parents who had commentary. They were teaching us consistently just and discussing principles in the scripture. For example, the principle of how God doesn’t like grumbling and complaining. Every time we would get to that part of the children of Israel’s story, the myriad times they grumbled and complained. My father would lecture a little bit, and so it was drilled in me. I don’t think I’ve ever complained in my whole life because God doesn’t like that. So these are things you learn. My mother,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:16):
That’s a good lesson when you’re traveling a lot and sometimes things don’t go quite right. Exactly. That’s a good lesson to know. You
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (28:22):
Just don’t complain. There’s no room for that. My mother primarily taught me to look for principles in the scripture, not rules. She taught me that everything that’s in the scripture is relevant. You look for the principle. What’s the message God’s trying to give us? And to this day, I cherish that kind of teaching, looking for Jesus in the scripture, modeling our lives after his character, his words, his demeanor. Because if you read the gospels over and over as we did, you pick up his character and his emotions, his style, his attitude. And these were things that teach us how to live. I learned that from my parents. Of course, obviously I learned that the gospel is the power of God. I read it in scripture, but I saw it demonstrated every day. I saw that miracles are as relevant today as ever, that there’s nothing God cannot do.
(29:33):
I was an adult way, an adult, and I had the thought because here I tell people, I have forgotten more miracles than most people have ever seen. And yet one day the thought crossed my mind. You’ve never seen a miracle. And it shocked me. And I began to put myself back on those crusade platforms, this parade of miracles. And I saw that’s right. What I saw was the miracle. I saw the person who couldn’t walk before and now they’re walking. I saw the person whose clothing still smelled like cancer, that now they’re completely healed. I saw the eyes that were already opened. I didn’t see when they were blind. And I had a smile thinking about that, just that the faith that was planted in me as a child, God can do everything. And yet all I saw was the end result of his grace and his miracles.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:31):
One of the great philosophies behind the Osborn Ministries was the value of every individual that you are important, that God’s hand is on you. God wants to use you. You are God’s best. That without, if God had someone better, he would use them, but the one he has. And so God is going to use you. That’s absolutely. Tell me the story about what the pastors in Russia said when Dr. Osborn came to
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (31:03):
Is so beautiful. When other people say things in a unique way. This is one of those statements. Of course, we had been, you heard the story. We had been across those many cities and the ministry was tremendous. We gave the books. We ministered daily, daily, daily, multiple times every day. After we left the leader, one of the primary Russian leaders was discussing with these Russian pastors, and they wrote to us and said, you’ve got to hear what the pastors have said about you. And the quote was this, after communism fell, many ministries came to Russia.
(31:51):
And when they left, we knew they were great. The Osborn’s came and when they left, we knew we were great. Doesn’t that just say it? Doesn’t that sound like something God would say? Almost chastising. We, let’s just talk about ourselves. We’re Americans, we know the system, we who boast of our achievements and may put ourselves on a pedestal and feel that we’re really special and people then know we’re special. Wow. God then comes on the scene and he says, no, it’s not about you. It’s about what I do in the lives of ordinary people to cause them to qualify, to represent me in their world. Yes. That is one of the fundamental philosophies of this ministry. This ministry is. And we didn’t make that up. If you read the Bible, that’s everything about God. He was the greatest missionary. He came. What did he do?
(33:00):
He didn’t cut in greatness. He came wrapped in our flesh, walking in our dust, relating to us on our level, talking our language. So he comes low to lift us up. There’s a verse in Isaiah that I just love. It’s talking. It’s a prophetic verse about the coming Messiah. And it talks about how he lifts the beggar out of the dunghill, lifts them and sets them among royalty. I have lived in those dung hills. I have walked among the beggars of the world. I have seen all of my 76 years, I have seen Jesus when he’s presented as he really is, lift the beggars up and make them special. That’s not because of us. That’s because of him. Do you remember the story of Papa Mu soke? Tell me the story. Papa Mu soke was a beggar in Uganda. This was the event. My parents, I was there as the photographer actually in the early eighties.
(34:10):
And it was after the rule of Iin. He was a real butcher and he had destroyed the nation. Incredible. It burned the libraries, killed every professional doctors, all they were afraid. We came, in fact, my mother and I came in advance. We stayed there seven weeks just working with the pastors. The streets were so full of potholes. One of the little cars we used was a Volkswagen wagon bug. There were streets. We couldn’t drive it because it would just fall right in the hole. There were curfews, wild dogs everywhere, eating the bodies that were on the street. Just a most depraved situation. And we had a historic event. It was in Luogo Stadium, we call it Luogo one because they went back later for Luogo two. And so this was a walled facility specifically to help the people feel safe. They came. I wish you could have seen what we saw.
(35:14):
The pastors didn’t have shoes, any suits that they had, they’d be so proud of. But they were just thread bare. Everyone was skinny. They’d had no food. There was so much pain. Every family had seen atrocities right before their eyes within their own family. So this was the condition of Uganda when we came. Okay, so this amazing, amazing event. In fact, we produced a series after that of messages and we titled it, you Are There. Because we wanted people to come and experience this. Hear the ministry. I heard my parents preach in ways I’d never heard them preach before. And so one service after we were leaving, we were packed in this little Volkswagen and we were with this massive crowd of people trying to get out the one gate that was available, the opening in the wall. And as we’re coming near the wall, can you just picture this?
(36:15):
You’ve been in these masses. Picture it. And my father looked down and he saw this man, Papa Maki. And he was a beggar and he was paralyzed. He was laying there and his legs were out in front of him. And my father said, stop the car. And he got out of the car. I followed him. I knew something was getting ready to happen. I had my camera with me. He came to who we now know as mu, we call him Papa Mu soke. My father looked at this beggar man. He had been paralyzed. So his family kicked him out of the house. He couldn’t do anything to support his family. And he lived among the dogs because he could sleep with them and stay warm. It’s a very pitiful situation. And so I remember my father’s words. He looked at this, man, can you picture the dust, the debris, the dazed expression, the tangled hair, the dirty body and the smell.
(37:25):
Can you see it? My father looked at him and he says, Papa, what are you doing on the ground? And of course, Papa Mercedes looked at him and said, who are you? What are you? And he says, look at me. I’m a man. You’re a man. I’m not in the ground. Why are you in the ground? And of course, Zuki is just looking at him, not comprehending. And my papa took his hand and he says, Papa and the name of Jesus Christ, get up and walk because I’ve got this all documented. It’s in our books. Papa Osakis story. That man got up. He was healed. He began to walk. Now, here’s the rest of the story. My mother and I went back. Daisy Washburn Osborn, that’s a name to remember. She and I went back one year later to do follow up on some of his amazing testimonies from Lou Ggo one.
(38:27):
And we looked him up. That man was all groomed. He had on a business suit. He had opened a business in the market. He had his own kiosk. He was so happy. Look at this. That’s why we say restoration. The gospel doesn’t just forgive sin and heal bodies. It restores people’s dignity. This man, he wasn’t a beggar in God’s eyes. God lifted him up out of the dust and set him high. That’s what the gospel does. And of course, this is one of thousands of stories, but I love that story because it’s perfectly expressed is what you’re talking about in the dignity of humankind made in the image of God. And our ministry has always prioritized the value of people. We treat them often in these nations. Dr. King, you’ve been there. They don’t treat themselves well. The leaders are not always kind to their people. Pastors are not always nice to their people. Some cultures, they don’t mind hitting them or pounding them with a stick. It’s just kind of culture and how beautiful to come and treat people gently treat them with care and respect.
(39:50):
It’s, it is a priority. I remember I was in one of the cities in the Democratic Republic of Congo. One of the wonderful miracles was a woman who came to testify skin and bone. Her testimony was that she was a prostitute and she had attracted aids, contracted aids. And the clinic had just finally told her to go home and die. There’s nothing more we can do. Well, her pimp brought her to the crusade thinking, oh, she can make a little more money as long as she’s alive. And she accepted Jesus. What happened to her was so frightening. Her pimp ran away. We learned that later. So she came to testify. Her story was so precious, the way God had shown himself to her and forgave her and loved her. Now, I’m giving you an example. I told the pastors who were there with me, I said, someone has to take this woman, take her, give her a safe place, help her get clean new clothes. And the first thing I saw was a man pastor come and kind of grab her.
(41:05):
That went all over me, and I just stopped right there in front of everyone. I says, stop it. This is a woman, your daughter, your sister in the family of God. And I called one of the women pastors to come, and I helped put her arms around this new convert. Gently say, she’s been abused enough. Can you take this woman and love her and show her the love of God and help her have a new beginning? Now you see, that’s one person among hundreds who were coming to testify, but that conveys the heart of our ministry, that always, it’s not our heart. It’s Christ’s ministry. He cares about people, and he’s gentle with them, and he reveals a God of love and compassion, not a God who rules and controls, not our God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (41:58):
Amen. Osborn Ministries has such a amazing legacy of ministry, but now God’s raising up a new generation of evangelists. Oh yes. What advice would you give to those who feel a heart for evangelism and want to be used by God to bring people to Jesus?
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (42:18):
Oh, that’s wonderful. God’s people, his soul winners, those that take on a personal responsibility to share what they know about Jesus, that’s what we call evangelists, those that I think all of us should be. But there are some that are very just uniquely passionate. I think from my experience and from what I see in the scripture and from the legacy of our family, the first thing I would tell this new generation of passionate evangelists, don’t try to copy everybody else. Listen for new ideas. Because wherever God sends you, that’s a unique set of circumstances. That God has a specific model for how to draw attention to himself, and he does it. He does it through notable miracles and things. So that’s the first thing I would tell them. I would tell them, practice develop Christ’s love for people. You can’t be an effective evangelist if you’re just trying to chalk off the numbers and keep track of how many people you’ve led to Christ.
(43:28):
No, no. You’ve got to love people like God, love them. We can’t do it on our own. They’re not always lovable, but we let Christ love them. That’s so important. And I think that’s one of the secrets of my father and mother’s ministry. They’ve always loved people. They’ve loved people. As a matter of fact, my father was invited by the late Dr. Oral Roberts. Dr. Roberts was having one of his Holy Spirit classes in the beginning of the university. And this one semester he had invited a lot of his ministry friends. I won’t name them, but all of his ministry friends, he had invited them just to come and have one session with the students. Among that number, my father was invited. I know this because now the pastor of our church, Dr. Shana Anthony, an or U grad, she was in that class that day and it was opened up for questions. And these young students, they were asking, and the big question was, what’s the secret of ministry? You can imagine you’ve been a young student. What’s the secret of effective ministry? And my father told the story of Papa Mu soke.
(44:50):
And by the time he was finished, I don’t know how many of those students heard his answer because he didn’t say, the secret of effective ministry is he told the story and there was not a dry eye in that place. He conveyed this dynamic divine principle of God’s intervention into human debris, how he loves people. And so I don’t think my father and mother ever read that in a book or had anyone tell them that they learned it by being among hurting people and carrying the same passion that these new evangelists carry of wanting them to know Jesus. Well, the way they need to be introduced to Jesus is through a savior who loves them, the Muslims. They don’t know anything about a God who loves most religions of the world, pagans with the witch doctor who puts curses on. They don’t know anything about a God of love.
(45:56):
Love is the message that penetrates these hearts. So I would always say, focus on Jesus. I would always say, focus on Jesus, because there are so many messages that proliferate now, if you just focus on Jesus, everything will be all right. I would remind them. Always expect miracles. You cannot do evangelism without miracles. That’s the proof that what we’ve said is true. That’s what Jesus did. He went around preaching and healing. And so these are fundamentals that I would always encourage young evangelists, love people, focus on Jesus, expect miracles. What was the first one? I missed it. I forgot my first one. Lift people up. Lift people up. Oh my goodness. Yes. Yes. You shared several. Yes, that’s a good one. But these are fundamentals, and these are things that don’t change with time. See, I’m representing a ministry that’s now in four years, we’ll enter our eighth decade.
(47:09):
That’s a long time. The whole world has changed. Nations have changed. Names of nations have changed. Politics has changed. Everything has changed. Technology has changed. But if we hold on, I would tell young evangelists prioritize the things that don’t change. Then everything else can change. If you’re in a village is one thing. If you’re in a city, it’s another thing. If you’re on the radio, it’s another thing. If you’re on your iPad, if you’re on WhatsApp, that’s another thing. If you’re face-to-face in a village, in a lepper colony, if you’re touching sick people, that’s another thing. But if you will focus on the things that do not change, your ministries will endure. The scripture talks about everyone’s work will be tested by fire. The apostle Paul warned us, it depends on what we build with whether our ministries will stand the test of fire. I think part of that testing is the testing of time.
(48:14):
If we want ministries to endure, look at my father and mother. They’ve been with the Lord now a while, but their ministry continues. Why? Because it’s built on the things that don’t change. It’s a secret to the longevity of ministry. And back to what you said, let me just add here. What we’re doing this year, these video pieces, we’re taking advantage of 2023. My father was born in 1923, so this would be 100 years. And so we’re celebrating his life ministry influence, not his life, only because that’s past. His ministry continues, his influence accelerates. And so this is a wonderful way to stop and reflect in my purpose in these videos is to identify milestones. When were major decisions made, when were crises faced, how do they deal with them and out of it to pluck principles that apply today. Otherwise, we’re just talking about history. That’s fine. But if we can learn from it in ways that’s relevant in this century, that’s what we’re looking for.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (49:40):
And I think in this century, God is accelerating what he’s doing in the world today. Isn’t it true when your father first went to Africa, there were so many places that had never even heard about Jesus. That’s right. And now some of the greatest churches in the world are on the continent of Africa.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (49:59):
That’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (49:59):
Exactly right. And so God is raising up people who are passionate about bringing the lost to Christ, right?
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (50:06):
That’s right.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (50:08):
It’s such a privilege to be a part of it.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (50:09):
My father’s book, you mentioned it as part of your early exposure, his book, Soul Winning. It was not a book about mass evangelism. It was a book to challenge the ordinary. Can I say ordinary Christian? That’s an oxymoron. I’m sorry, Lord. I didn’t mean that. There can be no ordinary follower of you, but one who doesn’t feel that they’re special. And this book was to challenge everyone. If you have the Holy Spirit, you are empowered to be a witness of Christ. It was a challenge to get the people off the pew onto the streets because he wrote it when he released this book, gave it to every preacher he had on his mailing list. I think he sent to 25,000 preachers at the time in 1963. And this is the book that began the revival of personal evangelism. Before that, only the pastor could win souls or only the known called evangelists.
(51:16):
It was a unique thing. You wouldn’t think the person in the pew, they just taught to pay their tithe and show up and do what they’re told. And so this book came as a revolution, a revelation, really. And out of that, so many ministries have launched and people look at you 18 years old, whatever God was doing in your heart, you knew you had the equipment to do it. You had the Holy Spirit. You had everything that Jesus had, and you could do everything that God put in your heart to do. That was to the I give my father the credit. God gave him a way to say it. That was so simple. And so that revival has spun what you’re describing, this massive spread of the gospel and the founding of churches and denominations all over the world. Massive. I’m not giving my father all the credit for that. You understand? But it was that I idea that was at the right time. It took hold.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (52:20):
Yeah. I remember I had the opportunity to go to one of Dr. Osborn’s crusades in Costa Rica. I had tried to meet with him here in Tulsa, but your office told me that he was always traveling and not available. So finally, just in order to learn from his ministry, I found out he was doing a crusading Costa Rica. I went to the crusade, sat in the front row of the pastor’s conference, and he spoke for five days, morning and evening for many long hours. And the pastors would just sit there and take notes, and they would listen. And I remember in one of the services, some of the pastors got tired and stood up to leave, and he says, sit back down. He says, this is the last time in my life that I’m coming to your nation. I’m very old. Good for you. He says, sit down. You need to hear what I am going to say
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (53:12):
To you. He was probably in his eighties by that time. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (53:14):
But in that meeting, I was there. I was influenced In that meeting, I think was the first time that my friends, Michael and Christina Lust met Dr. S. And so now they have a tremendous ministry. And then I have another friend, his name is Alejandro Arias, and Alejandro was in that meeting. He was a young preacher at the time, only a young teenager, but already preaching and was impacted. And so from just that one meeting, sitting in one of the rows, three ministries that are now impacting the world,
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (53:48):
And look at what you’re describing, each of these were young people. That’s who we look for to pass the flame of evangelism to the next generation. Old people have their methods, but the young people, they’ll catch the fire.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (54:06):
They’ll take the vision and run with it.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (54:07):
Yes. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (54:09):
Amen. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Osborn, for your inspiration and your example over the years and just your love for people, and we’ll continue to have an impact for many years to come. Amen.
Dr. LaDonna Osborn (54:24):
I love you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (54:25):
Thank you for being on The Evangelism Podcast.
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Manuel Guardado | From Belize to the World
Manuel Guardado helped us organize one of the largest outreaches in the history of the nation of Belize. Ten crusades in ten different cities simultaneously. On today’s podcast we talk about what God has continued to do in his life and in the nation of Belize since our big outreach.
Connect with Manuel on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Manuel360Guardado
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have my very special guest, pastor Manuel from Belise. And how do you say your last name? Gudo.
(00:14):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. You and I have been friends for several years now. We first met in the nation of Belize. God put it on our heart to do an event where we wanted to reach the entire nation of Belize and we invited 10 different evangelists to come down to Belize and we did 10 festivals simultaneously and you were very instrumental in helping to organize that. You’re from Orange Walk, which is part of Belize that has a large population of Spanish speaking people. And so as I remember, you were helping us to coordinate all of the Spanish speaking churches across the nation of beliefs. And it was marvelous to see what God did. What do you remember about that? What was special about that event?
Manuel Guardado (01:07):
Hey Daniel, it’s a pleasure to be here with you. I am so glad for your ministry and thank you for allowing me to share with you. I never going to forget a moment between you and I in the B T L park in front of the Sea of Belize City. The plan was to do an event, a crusade in Belize City, the biggest and the old capital of the country of Belize. But then you was there and you say, the Lord is putting in my heart that we should go to the whole nation of Belize and I see you thinking processing, but then you tell me, take me to the whole nation. I want to go. I want to see. And I think that was the moment when I realized that the Lord have something amazing for the country of Belize to the point that we will be able to take it everywhere in the country. So yeah, I never going to
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:00):
Forget. Yeah, and we drove everywhere. We drove up north to the border of Mexico all the way down south to the border of Guatemala and the islands. We went everywhere and we took the boat to the islands. And the ministry that we got to do in Belize was just amazing. We had a great event in Belize City. And then between the attendance at all of the events and also the people who watched online from Belize, we had over 10% of the entire nation in our services that week. And so many people were saved and touched by God. It was really amazing what God did. Now, another thing that is really exciting to me is that God is continuing to work through you. Ever since we were there in Belize, the evangelist who came to do the festival in Orange Walk was my good friend Will Jones, who leads Awakening Ministries International. And I love Will and his wife Jen, they’re close friends and I remember he came down with us and God really put Orange walk on his heart and you helped organize that. God moved in such a great way and afterwards Will came to you and asked you to start working with him. And so since then you’ve done a bunch of things with Brother Will tell me some of what you’ve been doing with him.
Manuel Guardado (03:27):
Yes, will is a blessing for the body of Christ, the way he’s, he’s an ex-athlete in basketball. The Lord called him to be a minister of the gospel preaching the gospel. And thanks to you I was able to meet him in that whole week that we was traveling all over the country of police Will was in charge of Orange Rock, the whole city. We was able to do that event and then after that it was a connection between he and I and my family, his family. And we was able to organize four more festivals the next year to be exact with you for the first time in history in Orange Rock. Normally the big events happening in the city, but we’ll choose to go to the communities where normally nobody goes. So we was able to do four that year and then another, then the other year we was able to do two more. So we did six festivals in total and we have an amazing time, great response because everything was done through the empowering of the local church. So many people comes out from their walls and just go into the communities to preach the gospel and we was able to see the grace of God during the whole process in so many souls come to the Lord.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:46):
So with Brother Will, you recently went to the nation of Ecuador and what did you see God do in Ecuador? Talk to me about the strategy of what you did there and what God did.
Manuel Guardado (04:58):
Yeah, so when we finished the events in Belize, will Jones called me and tell me, Manuel, I would like to for you to consider and pray if you could be a Latin America director for festivals, thinking about all the experiences that we have together, that was a great moment for us to go out. So we start to find all over Latin America, places where the gospel is not so much preach and we find a location called Esmeralda Ecuador where it is the most poor area of the country. It’s like abandoned. Nobody want to go there. And we was able to reach that community and there was an amazing group of leaders that receive us on the first trip, we call it the Pray Trip. And we was able to meet many leaders including the Alliance of pastors that represent more than 320 pastors in that specifical city.
(05:56):
And we begin the conversations about the possibility of doing a massive evangelistic effort for a whole week in that city. So understanding the hunger of these people and understand the hungry of the church to see people being saved. I think that’s where everything start. We work for nine months in total to prepare this festival, to empower the local church, do a lot of trainings. We have a great team in place, 12 committees in total mobilization, transportation, ushers, counselors, and we work with other many four different organizations that provide tracks, evangelistic materials. So for a whole week we bring 37 Americans to the place, also three people from Belize that came with me. And we was able to impact more than 28,000 people in a week doing outreaches in school prisons, and also preaching from a stage to one of the most surrounded places like so many people all there in that area. It’s the center of Esmeralda, it is like the main park of Esmeralda. So we did the event there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:14):
And a lot of people there are Afro-Caribbean,
Manuel Guardado (07:18):
Afro Equator,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:19):
Afro Equator, and they’re really in many ways an on reach people group.
Manuel Guardado (07:26):
Yes, that’s correct. Is one of the groups that have left behind in that area. The government, if you ask about what type of programs the government’s doing there, it’s not so much effort. Even part of the main streets are not paved compared to the other parts of the nation. So yeah, there was a lot of need in that specific ethnic group in that part of the country of Ecuador.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:49):
Wow. Now another ministry that you’ve been working with is my home church Victory Church from Tulsa, Oklahoma. And it’s really neat how they built a relationship with you. They came to me and they said that they had a heart to go to Belize and they said who would be really good to work with in Belize? And I mentioned a few of the different ministries that we had worked with there and you were one of them in Orange Walk. And so they came down, they met you and they started bringing teams of teenagers to work with you. And how many years has victory come down to work in Belize? Now
Manuel Guardado (08:30):
It’s close to four years. I’m talking about the pandemic time. So yeah, four years in total.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:37):
And I’ve just heard so many great testimonies from the young people at Victory that come down to Belize and you’ve even done a crusade with my pastor, pastor Paul Doherty and seen God do really amazing things. And it really cool because we went one time to Belize, God gave us an assignment for a season, but many different ministries have been continuing to come and God’s really given you tremendous favor as you’ve opened the door for so many people to minister all over Belize.
Manuel Guardado (09:16):
I think that when moments like 2016 when you came to the country of Belize, I believe that the event, the Festival of Hope that happened on 2017 was a big door open for the country of Belize. I am talking about that spiritual part of it. I see because it’s not only me. There is so many great people in the country of Belize that believe on the vision of the Festival of Hope and was a big part at the moment. I am seeing them very active on their cities. They love their cities, they’re trying to do something for their cities. I could tell them by name. They love so much the country of Belize. And I think the Lord used you, Daniel, to do that big part. And incredibly after seven years, the fruits still going, going, going, going until now about victory. Thank you for trusting in us and sending your home church to us in Belize. We love victory. We love the missions Pastor, pastor, the senior pastor,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:25):
Pastor Tachi Wilson.
Manuel Guardado (10:27):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:28):
Wonderful woman of God.
Manuel Guardado (10:29):
Yes. And also your pastor Paul. We have been able to work specifically with schools in Belize, CarePoint partnering with Children’s Cup in Belize and also doing great work in the communities focusing on evangelism to the new generations. So we love it
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:48):
Now. Right now we are actually together in the nation of El Salvador. And the reason that you’re here with us is because I’m going to be doing a big crusade in Santa Ana and it’s part of an initiative by the Global Evangelist Alliance. So this is a group of evangelists from all over the world that have come together and we have a vision to reach everyone on earth with an authentic encounter with Jesus Christ before the year 2033, which is the 2000 year anniversary of the original day of Pentecost and the resurrection and the ascension of Jesus up into heaven. And so over the next decade, the next 10 years, the Global Evangelist Alliance wants to reach every single person on earth with the gospel. And so one of our key leaders is the evangelist, Nathan Morris and Nathan has been coming down here to El Salvador for several years and seen God do amazing things, had really great crusades here.
(11:58):
And so we were in a meeting and we’re talking about, okay, we need to find a country that we can reach the entire nation for Jesus. And it can’t be too big a country. I mean we can’t do India. That’s 1.2 billion people. It’s too big. Even a country like Brazil would be so big, but where is God working? Where is there an opportunity? And Nathan Moore said, let’s go to El Salvador. God has opened up great doors in El Salvador and so the Global Evangelist Alliance has agreed to come here to El Salvador. We’re going to have seven different zones in this nation and the evangelists are going to go and do seven different crusades in these seven different zones. And so today we were here for a pastor’s conference getting ready for all of that, and it was really amazing. We had, I think there were over 500 pastors and these are top level leaders from across this nation that came together for the Pastor’s conference.
(13:04):
And they’re just so excited hearing that El Salvador is going to be the first nation that the Global Evangelist Alliance is going to join together in order to reach people here. And so when I was in this meeting, they asked which of the evangels want to be involved. I immediately raised my hand and said, I don’t know how much it costs yet, but I want to be a part. Just put me down on the list. I want to be a part. And then Pastor Tachi Wilson, the missions director at Victory, she was talking to me and said that Pastor Paul Dougherty wants to start doing more crusades. And so she said, where would be a good place for us to partner with you to come to a crusade? And since I was coming here to El Salvador, I said, well, why don’t you come to El Salvador, but don’t bring just Pastor Paul.
(13:58):
Let’s bring all of the young people from Victory Christian School to come down. So every year, victory Christian School sends hundreds of young teenagers out on mission trips and it’s actually really cool. My family was instrumental in helping to get that started because the very first mission trip that Victory Christian School sent out was probably when I was 12 or 13 years old. They brought the seventh and eighth grade from Victory Christian School down to Juarez, Mexico to work with my mom and dad. And so I was working with them and I was just a young teenager, but I went and helped do all the ministry and then Victor Christian School came down to work with my parents every year for like 13. So every year they would bring people. One year I remember we had over 96th graders just from the sixth grade that came down and we took them into the streets of Juarez, Mexico and these kids are running around door to door just inviting kids to come to the church and we would block off the street in front of the church.
(15:12):
The church was too small for everyone that came block off the street. And we would have a big crowd of people there. The kids from the school would do dramas, they administer, and then we’d give an altar call and a bunch of those kids would get saved. And we helped plant more than 40 churches that we were helping to grow and increase in Juarez over the years. My parents were there for about 20 years. Amazing. And so now it’s really neat because Victory has continued that over the years. I mean of all the churches in America that have a heart for missions, victory is one of the greatest churches because every year they send out hundreds of missionaries. They support missionaries all over the world. God has given victory such a great heart for reaching out to the world and they do it to nations around the world. But then they also love reaching out to people right there in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And so it’s such a beautiful church. I love being part of Victory.
Manuel Guardado (16:13):
Amazing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:14):
So anyways, we are talking and they’re going to send 130 teenagers from eighth grade, which my son is in eighth grade this year. He’s going to come down on the trip all the way up to 11th grade. And so when we heard that victory was going to come and bring the group, you have helped to organize some of the group activities in Belize. And so Victor said, well, why don’t we invite Pastor Manuel to come to El Salvador to help out with organizing the team because doing the logistics for 130 people, you got to keep them fed, lodging, transportation, everything. It’s a lot of logistics. And so I’m so excited to be here with you working together again. It’s like God has a big plan
Manuel Guardado (17:02):
After seven years. Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:03):
I know God has a big
Manuel Guardado (17:04):
Plan. Wow. Yeah, yeah, about that. When Tati, the emissions director of Victory, shared with me that they’re coming to El Salvador and with that large number of kids, she was like, can you help us to connect with some people and also bring in a team together so we could build a team in El Salvador to be a great host for the whole team and they could serve the most amazing way in the country of El Salvador. And I was like, my gosh, it’s my country. I born here. Danielle
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:38):
Born here. Yes. And your sister and brother-in-law lived just very close by to where we are now. That’s
Manuel Guardado (17:43):
Correct. So I was like, yeah, I going to go and I will connect and serve in some kind of way. Of course there is so many responsibilities up there that I have to do specifically in Africa right now with E M I, but just facilitating some things for the love that we have for this country because I really believe that what the Lord going to do in this country going to be amazing. Nothing that what is happening politic in the political arena and also in the different systems that are happening in this country. I think everything is prepared for the church to take control of this country and just reach so many thousands of people for Christ. I am so in love with that. And I pray that the Lord use you, Daniel like, oh, the Lord is able to use you in so many years. And also the other evangelists for the great work that you guys are doing in this country
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:36):
Today. In our pastor’s conference, we are there with Mauricio Canales who is the associate evangelist with Nathan Morris’s ministry and also with Elias Anaconda. He’s the son of Carlos Anaconda, one of the great Latin American evangelists. Really one of the greatest evangelists who’s ever lived. And the pastors responded really well. What’d you think about how the pastors responded to the messages today?
Manuel Guardado (19:05):
I think when I think about all this, and I try to bring a word to my mind on this, I see the word hunger. I see hunger in the life of pastors. I see that there is the openness to see God act and do miracles and see the reality of the church in action. And I see that availability of the pastor. So I think if you guys have a seed in your hand, I think El Salvador is ready, is ready for that seed to be planted. And in the next months years, you guys are going to see a big tree with so many fruits. That’s my prayer, I believe in on that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:47):
Amen. Let’s talk about what comes next for you. You are continuing to work with Will Jones in Awakening Ministries International. And they switching their focus away from Latin American countries where there’s lots of churches and really starting to focus more on the least reached parts of the world, places where the population of Christians did you say below 3%?
Manuel Guardado (20:19):
Below 3%,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:21):
Yeah. And so that is where an evangelist loves to go, the place where Christ is not known, and you are going to be involved in that. And so you’re going to actually be a missionary sent out from Belize to the least reached parts of the world. And one of the neat things that you’re doing is you’re actually raising support in order to support your family, support the ministry that God has called you to from within the nation of beliefs, which is amazing. Will Jones has really challenged you and increased your faith because sometimes it’s easy to say, well, if you live in America, it’s easy to raise money, but here you are, you’re living in Belize and there’s a lot of need in Belize, but you are actually raising support to support the ministry that God has called you to right from the nation of Belize. And you’ve been doing this for a while. And what percentage have you been able to raise? What commitment levels so far have
Manuel Guardado (21:30):
You at the moment is 69%.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:33):
So you’re at 69% that you’re supported. And so you have about 30, 31% more to go. And talk to me about that process. I know you’ve seen so many miracles as you’ve been sharing the vision with people. What are you doing in order to ask people to be involved in reaching people for Jesus?
Manuel Guardado (21:58):
Daniel? I will say that I have been able to know Jesus, know God little by little.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:06):
Can I say that? Do you feel like God has increased your faith through this
Manuel Guardado (22:09):
Process? I will say yes. I think that he’s my Lord and Savior, but I am experimenting his wisdom and grace and love through the different steps of our levels of faith and life. And I think our leader, will Jones in this case have do such a great job in the organization to help us to understand how amazing is our God that he could provide for our call for the vision that the Lord have give us. I am talking about the vocational of life. In my case, I’m doing pastoral ministry for 12 years and then going more out from the local church to be in the community, specifically doing festivals, organizing, pastors, conferences all over the country of Belize and also outside of the country of Belize. And then being challenged about why not be full time, why not believe that the Lord could raise your support from people that love you, that believe in you, and also monthly giving towards that. So we could go and be like, how you say missionaries being sent by our country was not easy. I was thinking that this is for someone else, not for me. We like comfortable, we like to work for someone to receive a check every month, and that’s okay, but this really challeng, but that
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:40):
Doesn’t take any faith to do that.
Manuel Guardado (23:42):
No,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:43):
That’s so easy.
Manuel Guardado (23:45):
Exactly. So I think to come to the point of understanding that the Lord will is for me to go in this direction with my wife and my three kids was one of the most hardest part of my life. Because we start to read books like the God Ask and many other books that speaks about God could be our provider, so we could do the ministry that the Lord is calling us to do. And in this case, I really believe on the vision of the Lord have give to e m I to awake the nations, to see the nations arise for Christ and go to that places. Daniel, where it’s really hard to go. There is countries in West Africa right now like Senegal, like Guinea, like Sierra Leone, that close to 97%, 95% is Muslim and just like 3% or less is Christian. So at the moment in this countries, it’s possible for us to preach without get to jail.
(24:47):
It’s possible to not do it. If you go to other countries to the top of Senegal, you will see that if you preach, you could go to jail. So why not take advantage of this moment in this part of the world where yes, there is a lot of Muslims, there is a lot of other religions, but we could preach the gospel. So we are called to do that. And I remember Danielle, when we invite my friends to come to the fundraising event for this, everybody was so excited to see that a Ian person, Ian Salvadorian is going to left his country for some times to organize festivals that we’re going to be able to preach the gospel for so many people is so excited because people could go, but also people could send someone like me to go to the nation. So we are so glad to see the 69% and we are believing to reach the a hundred percent. We have still some months, and that’s our goal in the name of the Lord.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:56):
I think your story will help inspire other people from Central America to become missionaries. Because in the past there was this idea that people would go from the west, from North America and they would go to other countries as missionaries. But now instead of the west going to the rest, I think what we’re going to see is the best from every country being sent by God to the rest of the body of Christ. I agree with you. And so you’re part of that. And if you can do it and God can do miracles through you, then God can do it miracles for other people here in Central America. And I really, I love the passion and the enthusiasm here in Central America. The churches know how to pray. They know how to cry out to God. And now I think it’s time for the church here to rise up and to start sending out missionaries, especially to the Muslim parts of the world. People from the United States of America sometimes can’t get into nations, but there’s an open door for someone from El Salvador or from Belize that they can go in to these nations.
Manuel Guardado (27:15):
And also I have been able to be in that country already at the moment. We are working on two festivals for this year and more to come next year. And we see a lot of hunger. Like hearing El Salvador, the pastors are ready to go. I am so amazed that the way you have to preach the gospel there is you got to do it different, but the church in some kind of way adjust the ways, but never change the message. And I love to see that, love to see how the church adapt to the realities of the cities of the nations. And many people are coming to Christ through that dynamic that the church is doing in Guinea. It’s a French country. I was trying to find someone that speak English. It’s not easy to find someone, but thanks God, we have an amazing partnership in that country that have receivers and we have a long-term work to do in that country.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:13):
That’s awesome. Well, you’re at 69% support and if someone’s listening and they feel prompted by God to help support you and to help send you as a missionary from beliefs to the nations, how can they find a way to support you? Can they do it at the Awakening Ministries website? Yes,
Manuel Guardado (28:34):
Yes. Yes. I would recommend to anyone that we like to support this vision is to go to www awakening mint tl.work, awakening mint tl.org. And yeah, when you go to the donation part, you could find out for who specifically you want to do at donation. Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:57):
That’s awesome. Well, brother Manuel, it is so wonderful to be here with you again in Central America and hopefully we can work together somewhere, maybe Africa, maybe Asia, but we’ll see. It’s just so appreciate your heart for God and your heart for reaching people for Jesus, and it’s an honor to serve the Lord with you,
Manuel Guardado (29:23):
Danielle, Jesus is coming.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:25):
Amen.
Manuel Guardado (29:26):
We have to continue preaching the gospel and encourage the local church to keep up. So it’s a pleasure to serve with you.
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Joseph Wilson | Persecution in India
Joseph Wilson pastors in the nation of India. Recently his church was burnt down by radical Hindus. Today we talk about the persecution the church is facing in the nation of India and about how he is reaching the lost despite the opposition.
Connect with Joseph Wilson on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joseph.wilson.92372
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Joseph Wilson pastors in the nation of India. Recently, his church was burnt down by radical Hindus. Today we talk about the persecution the church is facing in the nation of India and about how he is reaching the lost despite the opposition.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:31):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:55):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, pastor Joseph Wilson from the Nation of India. Thank you for joining me today.
Joseph Wilson (01:08):
Amen. Such a wonderful time that the Lord has given me and I’m so honored, excited to be over here and to be part of this podcast. And I tell you, my life was so much transformed with this man of God and I say one of the reason for me to be where I am today is this man of God has spoken a word over my life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:32):
Amen. Well, how long do you think we’ve known each other? When was the first time that we met? I
Joseph Wilson (01:39):
Have met you in the year 2005.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:45):
Wow. So we’ve been friends for a very long time now. It’s
Joseph Wilson (01:48):
A long
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:48):
Time and at that time we were doing many gospel festivals in the nation of India. My wife and I have such a great love for India. My wife Jessica actually lived in the nation of India for almost two years, and then I’ve been going and talking to people about Jesus and it’s so amazing the nation of India, 1.2 billion people. It’s a huge nation full of people that need Jesus.
Joseph Wilson (02:22):
Absolutely. And now the recent census of our country says we are with 1.4 plus billion people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
And so India continues to grow.
Joseph Wilson (02:33):
It’s continuing to grow, and as it continues to grow, it is giving us a lot of challenges to reach the people where our nation is needed to.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:43):
Now, the first missionary who went to India was the Apostle Thomas.
Joseph Wilson (02:50):
Apostle Thomas. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:51):
The same doubting Thomas who doubted that Jesus came back to life, but after he became convinced of the Jesus’s resurrection, history says that he went to India.
Joseph Wilson (03:04):
He went to the India. Yes, you are right. He came to India and to his amazement, there were so many rituals taking place and there were belief and there were system that was not of God. They were in search of God, but in many different ways. But when Apostle Thomas came, he knew the real God. So he made excitement and then he performed the miracles where the people encountered God first. Ever since then, the kingdom of God is getting established in India,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:38):
And there’s actually many different religions in the nation of India. You are multi religion, multi-ethnic groups. So you have Christianity, you have Islam, you have many, many Hindus, many, many Hindus. You have the Sikh religion, Jainism and many other religions,
Joseph Wilson (04:03):
Many other religion. What amazes us is India is such a huge country with such a big religion aspect. Everyone in India are devotees to God, but they have different religious to teach them. And there’s Hinduism, Muslims, Jainism, Sikhism, and I tell you there are very different groups as well in India with hundreds and thousands, to our amazement, 33 millions of and goddesses our nation. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:35):
Let’s talk specifically about Christianity because there has been a lot of persecution that has come against religious minorities and in India, Christianity is a minority. Do you know what percentage of India would follow Jesus?
Joseph Wilson (04:55):
The census says that it is closely to 3% out of 1.4 billion people follows Jesus. Now, when I say 3%, I don’t mean that everyone loves Jesus out of this 3%, there are Catholics, there are atheists, there are people who are far away from Jesus, but just a name. Take Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:19):
So some of the 3% are only Christians in name only. But there has come a lot of persecution recently against the Christian churches in India. In fact, I was just sitting down a few days ago with one of my friends who is a pastor from Manipur and he was telling me that many of the churches in Manpo have been burned. Even the houses of some of the Christians have been burned and the Christians have had to flee from the cities up into the hills and they’re in hiding.
Joseph Wilson (05:57):
Yes, they are in hiding. This was happening up in the month of May. This is planned way beforehand for the persecution, being honest with you all. There were so many things that happened. The churches were burned, you were right. Many people left the houses and their houses was burned and to management. There were many women who were raped, paraded, naked, and I tell you, there was no words spoken by the government in behalf of them to ask them to be protected. But these riots have taken place and this is making chaos in our nation. Let me tell you, this is not the first time that has happened in the year 2008. There is a state called Ora where the same thing happened and let me be honest, with the same kind of a government which was running the state at that time. So there is on and off persecutions that are happening up. Evidently what I could say is it started with the little, but now it’s getting bigger. Bigger and the worst.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:06):
That’s very sad. And it’s not just the churches in Manipur that have been affected by this. You pastor and your church actually was burnt. Tell me what happened.
Joseph Wilson (07:20):
Yes, with the vision of God that I moved from my native town to a new city, which is called Miser, which has 1.3 million people and hardly 120 churches in the entire city. And out of that only 2% of them are Christians and out of 2%, when I say Christian, there are only 0.5 people who believe Jesus, not even 0.5. So God with the vision I have been to the city with the family. We planted a church. Our church is three and a half years old and we pray to God, take us to the people where you want me to serve. And we never knew the city. We don’t know anyone in the city. By faith, we moved as a family and we started a church through a plumber who comes to us. His aunt was with the cancer and that was a good opportunity. He said to me, this is what the conversation, who are you?
(08:18):
Then I said, Hey, I’m a pastor, pastor, what do you do? Then I said, I pray for the people. You left everything to pray for the people. Then I said, yeah, why? Then I said, I would love to see happiness in the life of people. I love to see blessings in the families. That’s why I came. He was amazed. We exchanged our numbers. He goes back after two days he calls me, you said you pray for the people. My aunt is with the cancer. She’s diabetic. She’s on the deathbed. Would you come and pray? I said, I would come. We went there. I tell you, we prayed. She’s still alive. The Lord healed and they took us to three new Hindu families and that’s how the church grew in our house. We began our church at house. As we were growing to 28 people, the neighboring people began to complain against us.
(09:14):
They complained to the police and the men in the families were against us and they wanted to put us in a prison. So the police intervention and the group of people intervention, we were forced to stop our church at home. We stopped our church, we began to zero. Then again, we started the church. That’s what our life is. We are called to reach the people. So we began the church at home again after eight months, and then immediately God helped us to rent a building. We went there. We started the church. As we started again, the Lord started to do signs, wonders, healings. Then the church began to grow. Now I tell you, 80 to 85% of the people who come to our church never heard about Jesus before. They were Hindus. Now as the church was growing, we started our church in February, 2020. Then 2021, July the second. People were so angry against us because they tried to stop us, threaten us, but we were not. We went on to do the church. Finally they did. They burned our church because we were not listening to their threats. They burnt our church. We lost the sound. I tell you, we lost everything. Everything but
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:41):
All your musical instruments, the sound system, yes,
Joseph Wilson (10:44):
Chairs,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:46):
Everything was burnt.
Joseph Wilson (10:47):
Everything was burned to the ashes, everything was burnt and the same night the police came. Now that city is new to me. I don’t know anyone. When the police came, I expected them to support me because I was the one who is in loss. But the police, they were more than 20 plus people and they said, who are you? Then I said, I’m Joseph. The response from them were, are you a Christian? Then I said, yes. What are you doing here? Then I said, I have a music class. Then they said, music, no, you are doing something. That’s why people have set fire on you. You have done wrong. That’s why people are upset on you. Now you come to the police, we are going to file a case against you and you need to fight it in the court
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:34):
Or And the police, after your church was burnt, they came and said that you are doing something wrong.
Joseph Wilson (11:41):
Absolutely. I was mistreated by the police. They interrogated me for more than three hours.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:49):
Wow. It’s really sad because according to the constitution of India, you are supposed to have freedom of religion.
Joseph Wilson (11:58):
Absolutely. The constitution of our nation gives us all the rights to speak. We have a freedom of religion, freedom of speech, but yet because of the power and the abuse, you of power and because of to gain some popularity, people are always throwing stones against Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:21):
Wow. So what ended up happening with your church, you had everything burnt, so you had to close down for a little bit, and then what happened?
Joseph Wilson (12:32):
We needed to close down. The police were against us. The people were against us. We lost everything. And the saddest part was they wanted to take me to the prison. But that night I was literally feared, but I saw the invisible hand of God helping and protecting. Then the Lord helped me to come out of that night and the next day the wise thing I did was to leave the city and go to the city where I was born. So I stayed in that city for more than one and a half month away. Then we closed our church after the issue was closed down, I came back. I started to clean the church and began to restore the church. The issue was done, but God intervened in such a way. There was a person whom I came in contact and they spoke to the police officers telling that he’s our guy, so he’s doing good. So because of the political influence and the word that I received, the police were subjective to the command of the authorities, and that is how God led us to come out of that kind of a situation. But they burned the church. It took us five months to restore the church and we closed it. But by God’s grace in December the 2021, we opened the church again, but glory to beat God that we haven’t lost anybody.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:57):
Wow. And how many people are attending your church right now? Right
Joseph Wilson (14:01):
Now our church is three and a half years old. We are with 80 people in the church, and I tell you, 30 people, we baptized them and there are more than 80% of the people were Hindus who never knew Jesus before.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:18):
Wow. What a great miracle. And I have to commend you for continuing on in what God has called you to do even in the midst of persecution. I know it’s not easy, but one of the things in your testimony that you have shared with me was the impact of one message that I preached many years ago and you heard the message and ever since it has been one of the defining messages of your life. Tell me about that.
Joseph Wilson (14:50):
Absolutely. I cannot leave this program without speaking that word. In fact, before I could say that statement, let me tell about a brief testimony. I was going through terrible times in my life. I never had anybody to support me or to strengthen me or to be a friend. I was going through such a deep down life. I was broken, my soul was broken, my future was blinded, and I failed my education and I was the only son to my parents, huge expectations, and I was growing up. There was no future for me. And there was so many things I tell you, nothing was going my way. Neither nothing was happening. What I was planning to do, everything was chaotic. At that moment of time, I decided to die. I decided to commit suicide because I don’t have future. I don’t have vision, I don’t have anything in my life.
(15:56):
So what I did was when I thought to die myself, one word that changed my life was Jeremiah 29 11. One of my friends sent me a text at the time where I was wanting to commit suicide that says, the Lord has plans to prosper you, to give you a future and a hope. When I read that s I felt peace in my heart, and that’s the time I saw new things beginning to happen. Right after that transformation, I come to a crusade in 2007, November the 11th. I still remember November the 11th, and there were more than 500 people in the auditorium. You were speaking in a conference. I was sitting on the tro. You were speaking about obeyed Iam. You were speaking about his origin. It was so great. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:55):
So Obed Edam is an obscure Bible character, but his story will change your story and it’s one of the messages I love to preach. In fact, I wrote a book about it called The Secret of Obed Edem, and he was the guy that was living beside the road, which led to Jerusalem. And one day, king David decided to bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem. And so they passed in front of the house of Obed Edam and a tragedy happened. A man fell over dead when he touched the ark. And so King David said, forget about taking the arc to Jerusalem, put it in that house right there. And he pointed to the house of Obed Edam. And so they carried the Ark of the Covenant where the presence of God dwell and they placed it in the living room of Obed Edo. And in first Chronicles 13, it says that the arc of God remained in his house for three months and it says that God blessed his household and everything that he, so when the presence of God came into his house, he was blessed.
(17:54):
And so when you invite the presence of God into your house, you’re going to be blessed. But his story does not end there. It’s mentioned seven more times in scripture and he becomes addicted to the presence of God. Edam follows the Ark to Jerusalem and he starts to serve in the house of God. He starts out as a gatekeeper in the temple, then he becomes a heart player in the temple worship group. Then he becomes a leader. His entire family is serving God. And then the last time he’s mentioned, he’s the keeper of the temple Treasury. So we see this great promotion in his life. His story didn’t end at the beginning. He continued on.
Joseph Wilson (18:38):
Yes. And that’s what when us speaking, that was fascinating. My heart got connected to the word, and I still remember as you were preaching intensely bringing the word, you saw me, and this is the turning point of my life. You saw me in the middle of everything you just said, Joseph, stand up. I was shocked. I stood up. And this is the word that you said. Your story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:09):
Your story is not finished yet. Not
Joseph Wilson (19:11):
Finished yet. I was so thrilled the moment I was thinking my story is over, I don’t have any life. That’s the time you said your story is not finished yet. And you said, the way the Lord has blessed, obeyed I, your life will be blessed. Get ready for the promotions. And I tell you, I began my life from that situation. And from then on, I hold it onto that word to that says to me, my story has not finished yet. This is just the beginning. And I tell you today, I still look around myself and say, my story is not finished yet. And thus the way that the Lord blessed my life and for the past 16 years, I’m holding that word which I wanted to die, but that word gave me a life. That word gave me the vision. That word gave me a family. That word gave me future. That word gave me ministry. That word gave me friends. That word gave me such a confidence. Whatever I am doing today, it’s that word that put a foundation for my great faith in Jesus
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:23):
Christ. And so even when it was difficult to start a church, even when your neighbors were complaining, even when your church was burned and you lost everything, that prophetic word from the Lord, your story is not finished yet has continued to inspire you and motivate you, and you have to seek after the will of God for your life.
Joseph Wilson (20:50):
Absolutely. That word made such a terrible transformation, I tell you as obey was blessed step by step. And you said to me the same way, Joseph, your life God is going take you step by step. I remember sitting down and I became a worship leader. God started to upgrade me, update me to a translator. And I tell you, I was sitting in this man of God’s crusades and God made me to lead worship for his crusades and also to translate the word of God. So I am the example of how a prophetic word when we receive gets true. And I am very honored that I received it through this man of God. And I am the true example of that word. Your story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:39):
Amen. Well, that is a tremendous prophetic word that I believe will continue to work in your life. Amen. Because Joseph, your story is not finished yet. God has more for you. And I believe that God has more for the nation of India. Let’s talk a little bit more about the persecution that has happened in India. The constitution of India guarantees religious freedom. In Article 25 of the Indian Constitution, it says, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess practice and propagate religion. And so that is enshrined in your constitution, constitution. And so India is the largest democracy in the world. They have many elections and they’re supposed to guarantee freedom of religion, but that often has not happened. Often militant Hindus have harassed, they oppress, they attack Christians, and they even make laws restricting the freedom of Christians. They attack churches, they persecute people who would want to convert from one religion to the other. And they even have kicked missionaries out of the country and they have shut the door that anybody who would want to talk about Jesus, they refuse to give them a visa. So in effect, there is not freedom of religion. And so what do you think the church should do in the face of this persecution?
Joseph Wilson (23:29):
This is very much interesting in the face of persecution the churches are really going through. But one observation that I have made as it in the Book of Acts, when such kind of a persecution are going through it is dividing who the real people who are called to serve. There are people who are going back. There are people who are struggling, there are people who are giving up, but there are people who are marching forward to do what God has called to do. Now among all these persecution, definitely every tongue in India are praying for God for miracles to happen. Now, one thing that persecutions are happening up is, I’m sorry to say, because of the government, because they back up the people, the vanity groups, because of their political gain, they use the groups to attack the church and they want to win the elections or be in power in the name of religion. So that’s the biggest optical the church is facing. But among these things, it’s very hard to confine our growth only to one thing. It’s a challenge. We are accepting in reality about the challenge, but still we are commended to preach the gospel and to reach the people. So that’s the thing that we are doing in spite of all the things what’s happening up around.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:06):
And many of the states in India have passed what they call anticon conversion laws. What are those?
Joseph Wilson (25:15):
My state? My state was ruled by the government, which is running the country now. When they were in power, they were so much against the Christians and the churches. They finally brought an anticon conversion bill. Now I need to tell this, this anticon conversion bill is so, so cruel. If I go and share my faith to someone else, if they don’t like it, they can go to the police, file a complaint against me, and I would be put in prison non bailable warrant. I would be in prison for more than seven years.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:00):
Just for talking to someone about your faith in Jesus.
Joseph Wilson (26:04):
Absolutely. Now, not only that, if I preach gospel to someone, if they get saved and they come to church, their whole family has the power to go to the police and say, Hey, somebody spoke to my son or my daughter, and they manipulated them so they can go and write a complaint against a pastor or an evangelist and they would be considered and the pastor or the evangelist or the churches would be put in prison. That’s the severeness of the law. We prayed. We prayed. But I tell you, God is so powerful in this year, in the month of May, 2023, the governments got changed. And the first thing the present government of my state has done is they have revoked the law forever.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:53):
And so in your state, in which state do you live
Joseph Wilson (26:56):
In? I live in the state of Karnataka. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:57):
In Karnataka. Now the Anticon conversion law is not on the books? No,
Joseph Wilson (27:04):
It’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:04):
Not on the books. But in some of the other states continues to, some
Joseph Wilson (27:08):
Of states still continue. I tell you, wherever the government is ruling the states, every state which is ruled by this government has been subjected for the Anticon conversion bill. And I tell you, it’s going to be hard if you run a church in a house, it is considered as illegal because you are getting people to your house and converting them. If you run a church in a rented buildings or the hotels, it’s not going to be considered as a church because that is a social gathering place. Now the government is bringing the law.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:43):
And then if you own the church, sometimes the churches get burned down.
Joseph Wilson (27:46):
Absolutely. If you own a church, they say, why are you getting people now? They are taking even the census of the church, how many people you have. After a year, they come back again and check the census. If they find out there are more number of people, they’re questioning who are they? How do they come to you? And if they come to church, the believers, they are cutting the access of provisions which are from the government for the poor people. That’s the saddest part. What’s happening up?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:20):
Wow. Well, we need to pray for the Church of India. I think even in the midst of persecution, it just makes the church to grow more and more and more because people will turn away from a hopeless religion to turn towards the hope that is found in Jesus Christ.
Joseph Wilson (28:42):
Absolutely, brother Daniel. We need our nation. Our churches need prayers to back us up. We need more prayers than ever before because we are in more danger than ever before. I say this word because from the politicians, the seed against Christians is now spread all across the nation where everybody are so passionate against the church and to see the end of the church or to see the destruction of church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:17):
Amen. Well, let’s finish by praying for the nation of India. You said that now the population is 1.4 billion people, a huge number of people, many who need to find Jesus Christ, the hope of Jesus, and to have the opportunity to be saved. So would you pray for the nation of India?
Joseph Wilson (29:41):
Absolutely. It’s my joy to pray for our country. We need prayer. We need Jesus. We need the kingdom of God to invade. And there is no greater power and strength than prayer. I would love to pray. Let’s pray. Dear Father, we thank you Lord for your unmerited favor and unconditional love towards us. Father, you are the same yesterday, today and forever. You love us the same. And Lord, we are here praying for our beautiful nation, India with 1.4 billion people. They need you, father. They need your kingdom. And we pray today how mercy on our nation, how your grace upon our nation, Jesus, let your kingdom rule and reign. We pray for all the people who needs to be saved because you shed your blood on the cross of calvary for the remissions of sins of every one. Oh God. And we pray that you would have mercy and grant salvation to our nation.
(30:56):
We pray whatever ways are being made hard to preach the gospel, that you will make a way for us to reach the communities, to reach the people. Lord, open the blind eyes to see you. Open the hearts to receive you. Father, let the word of God shine upon people and let people get saved. We pray for more people to serve you. We pray for the freedom of our religion of God. We pray for the freedom of our speech. We pray, father, that you would make roots to reach the people. And we pray for the politicians. We pray for the leaders. We pray for all the groups who are against your church. God, you transformed soul to Paul and that’s your power, and that’s what we pray. Transform the hard-hearted leaders and the politicians who are against your kingdom, who are against your gospel, and may your kingdom establish. Thank you for your saving grace and saving power. In Jesus’ name we pray, father. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:06):
Amen. Well, brother Joseph, I have a word from God for you. Your story is not finished yet. God has more for you.
Joseph Wilson (32:17):
Amen. I receive this word with joy and gladness, and I begin my journey again with a higher altitude of life telling to myself, my story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:31):
And so we are standing with you in India. We are praying for you in India. And I know that God will give us a great harvest of souls across the great nation of India.
Joseph Wilson (32:44):
Amen. I receive that. We believe that. And also I witness the crusades that you ministered thousands of people. What a joy was it for us to see you sacrificing your place in America, coming over there and preaching the gospel and ministering so many villages which never had Jesus before, never had church before because of you were yes to the Lord. Today. I see as a witness, there are hundreds of churches, thousands of people in the kingdom of God. And that’s what enlightens me, challenges me. When a man of God sacrifice and come to my country to speak. What am I doing? What are we doing? So your life is always an encouragement to me. Influence to me. And I tell you, words fail to describe how much impact you have created in me. One of the reason for me to go to the lost places and the lost people is you looking at the crus. That’s what my life has been in transformed. And here I’m as an example, doing what God has called to do. And that’s why again, I say my story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:01):
Amen. Thank you brother Joseph. Are
Evangelism Podcast Host (34:03):
You called by God to be an evangelist? Do you want to lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and is seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give antar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you want to be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:05):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (36:25):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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DJ Moz | Kubamba Youth Movement in Kenya
DJ Moz leads the Kubamba Youth Movement in Kenya. These young people are using upbeat music and dance to reach school children with the Gospel. You will be amazed and inspired as you listen to his story of how DJ Moz went from DJ to evangelist!
Connect with Kubamba on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Kubamba.Tv/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, DJ Moz, from a tremendous ministry in the nation of Kenya named Ku Baba. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me today.
DJ Moz (00:17):
Thank you, Daniel. Thanks for having me over. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:20):
Tell me a little bit about your ministry and, and what you do. I I was just exposed to your ministry yesterday. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I went with some of your team members out to one of the schools here. Mm-Hmm. Near Embu. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, Kenya. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you had a team of young people Yeah. That went into the school. They had some kick in music. It was that they had a DJ who was playing music Yeah. And they were all dancing. Yeah. And they captured the attention of the kids. Yeah. And then they ministered to them led them to Jesus. Yeah. And it was so beautiful to see what God was doing. And this is just one of, of many different teams that you
DJ Moz (01:00):
Have. Yeah. Yeah. First man, I love your energy. <Laugh>. Guys need to know, just waking up, you know, it’s excellent, man. You should join Kuku Bamba <laugh>. You have the right energy for it. So but thank you for having me on your podcast. So what Ku Bamba does, and first let me explain what Ku Bamba means, just in case for guys are wondering what’s, yeah. What’s Ku Baba? Ku Baba is a slang word from Swahili. So young people in Kenya you know, people have different lingos, you know in their, from their ba in their community. So we have a language that’s called Shang, and Shang is the language young people use. So it has like Swahili and English and Chinese and Indian. Like, it has a mixture of things. And so KU Baba is a word from that, and it means something catchy, something attractive, something cool.
(01:44):
And you know, God allowed us to start this 23, 23 years ago. And what you got to experience yesterday, it’s not something that we really had sat down and planned. And we are like, you know, this is what we you know, when we look back and see what God has allowed Ku Bamba to do, it’s not something we are sat down and strategized and say that this is exactly what we want to do 23 years down the right down, down the road. It’s just how God opens up your eyes and shows you what can happen. But a background is I’m a DJ by profession. I love music. And I used to work in the clubs. I got saved when I was still in the clubs. And I’m a product of music. Like music has had a, a significant influence in my life.
(02:27):
And so Ku Baba is pretty much built around music like urban gospel music. So we so when I became a believer I started looking for gospel music. That was the kind of music that I used to play in the club, something that would relate, I could relate with. And I was happy to come across, you know, albums from guys like Kirk Franklin and Mary Mary, and there was an amazing gospel hip hop crew called Cross Movement. I don’t even know if you remember them. They were like our Wutang clan at that time. And there was Toby Mac, you know, just come across the album by d dc talk that had, that’s called Jesus Freaks Now, that Jesus freak was like, man, I like this title. You know, that’s who I want to be. And so when Ku Baba started you know I believe in my heart that God, you know, God showed me that I needed to go back and reach out to my younger brothers and sisters who in the clubs and, you know, because I’d seen the impact the music had had on my life and their life.
(03:22):
And see how we can drop them in.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:24):
So, all right, now I want to take you live to the festival from last night so you can hear the music and feel the energy that Ku Baba brings when they minister.
DJ Moz (04:21):
And so I just, you know, when I became a believer, I told God, this is the gift that you’ve given me. I’ll give it back to you and use it for your glory. And so of course, you’re a new believer. The church doesn’t know what to do with you, the club where you’ve come from, they don’t know what to do with you. So you, they’re stuck somewhere in the middle, but was a beautiful journey. And I thank God that when he opened the first door for me to get on, let me say, let me let me say radio was a key significant part because media influences lives. So when that opportunity came up for me to get into radio May 15th, 2000, it was a turnaround point, not just for my life, but for the lives of many young people, because young people said, listening to the show and engaging and listening to what was you know, to loving the music, they’re like, oh, man, I can’t believe there’s such cool gospel music. So as they’re
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:13):
Doing that, so you didn’t really go into ministry having a specific plan of what you wanted to do. You just had the opportunity to do a radio program. Yeah. And you had a love for music mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And you started bringing the gospel music Yeah. Here to Kenya. Yeah. And young people started listening to it, and their lives were changed. I just come from
DJ Moz (05:32):
The clubs. So I have, and before that, I’ve never been to church for nine years, so I have no idea what ministry is. In fact, ministry was a term that I’d never heard. And I come from a Presbyterian background, which is very,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:44):
They don’t have your type of music in the Presbyterian
DJ Moz (05:47):
Church? No. My church my mom’s church where we used to go when I was growing up had no guitars and keyboards and things like that. Those were things of the world. <Laugh>, you can imagine I’m a DJ from that kind of having come from that kind of background. So but you know, the, what, when young people are engaging with this kind of music man, I can’t, from the first day when I did the altar call, you know, just inviting young people to come and experience what I had experienced through Christ, the listeners would call and giving their lives to Christ. And it, it was amazing. And so as this, as this continued, we’re like, okay, a couple of my friends now came and joined me a year later. And we said, okay man, what do we do to, to continue engaging with these young people who are listening to us on radio?
(06:34):
And one of them said, you know, he’s calling Gush. He said, you know, why don’t you go to the high schools? And so we went to high school and the impact, you know, those alliance girls, the impact was incredible. The young people dancing to the music. So, of course, I’m a dj, so, and dancing is a big thing in Africa. So the kids were dancing. The music helped us break the barriers, and we shared the gospel and the kids gave their lives to Christ in the droves. And it also helped that I had a cool dance crew that had met along the way that called All Lova who were amazing guys. And so together with the logo, we say, going around to the schools and then ano a music artist some of the few gospel music artists were say, rising up at that time.
(07:19):
They would come alongside us and join us to go for these tours. But it’s incredible. And I’m really glad that God opened up our eyes to allowing us to see the opportunity that lies in the high schools. The good thing about music, and I was, I was sharing with you yesterday, is music breaks barriers. I mean, it crosses borderlines. And, you know there’s one person who said the word, one good thing about music is when it hits you feel okay. And you know, music carries you through places and you know, it brings out emotions. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. But if you have godly music, the spirit of God moves. And, you know, he just you know, he, he changes. You start singing you from the inside out and the music carries you through those spaces when you’re going through a difficult time or when you’re having a good time.
(08:03):
And David, in the scriptures, you remember there’s a time when King Soul would be tormented and David would play the music and he would settle, king Soul would calm down. That’s the power of music. And so I’m so grateful that you know, God allowed us to use music. And we say the music is our tool of influence as Ku Bamba because we have seen the power of music. And now through this journey, as you got to experience yesterday in the high schools, I mean, the energy is electric. It’s just like being in a concert, just a smaller concert.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:36):
The energy was absolutely huge. Everyone was dancing, they were celebrating. Yeah. But then I noticed that when the gospel was shared, everyone quieted down. Yeah. And they listened very, very intently. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And the message that your young evangelist was there Yeah. Speaking mm-hmm. Went right into their hearts.
DJ Moz (08:54):
Yes. And the good thing is, and you thank God that, you know, once you’ve done that concert you’ve connected with them, you’ve bonded with them, you are now, they’re now that now feel like, man, I can listen to these guys. And we don’t take it for granted that they would actually sit down and listen to us because they don’t have to. You need to remember that among some of those kids who are sitting in that space, some of them are Muslims, so this, this should be offensive to them. But they do sit down and they listen to the gospel. And what we’ve gotten to experience is young people from different religious backgrounds coming and accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior. And so, and that’s the beauty about what sees that God has allowed us to do. And that we can be able to share the gospel with them in a manner that’s relevant in a timely way.
(09:44):
And they can be and hopefully they’re like, man, this Jesus, who these guys are talking about, I want to have a relationship with him and some of the young people who I dunno if it’s Erica, who was sharing yesterday at the school that you went to. Erica was a crazy kid. You know, in high school he gave his parents drama, <laugh>, he was kicked out. He was, I think he was expelled from five different high schools. Wow. Just from being truant or being rebellious. And so when he shares, when he goes in that pulpit or on that platform and shares with the young people he’s experienced, ’cause he was there where they are. And some of them are thinking about being rebellious. You know, they’re able to see their lives you know, through the guys who they’re seeing on stage ministering to them.
(10:29):
So I’m very grateful again, to see what God has allowed us to be able to do. And and maybe Daniel should let you know that the other thing is now seeing other other people from, you know, young people from other African countries reaching out to us and saying, man, we’ve been following you guys for a while. Wow. And we’ve started doing something similar to what you guys are doing in our country. Man we just wanted to know that what you’re doing is going beyond your borders, <laugh>. Like it was, it was interesting about maybe three years ago getting a getting a, a message from some young guys from Burundi who were doing exactly ministry, like how we started here, about 20, 20 something, 23 years ago. But I was so happy because that journey is so fulfilling. Like, they would go and set up their sound system in the, in the community, like in the marketplace, and they do a gig for the people in the market and share the gospel. You know? So it’s just encouraging them and telling them, man, where you, what you guys are doing right now is exactly where we started.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:32):
Wow. Yeah. Let’s talk about your team. How many team members do you have?
DJ Moz (11:36):
So I have about team of 69 that’s including myself and <inaudible> are the co-founders. We, 69 people,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:42):
And the team divides up into several different groups about how many would go into one school at a time.
DJ Moz (11:49):
So we have about 10 people per team who go out and so we have about, we have six vans. Okay. like you got to see the there’s some big vans, they’re called, you know, the Mercedes printers or the Volkswagen Crafter vans. So 10 people per team. But then when we get to a place like here in bu, where we are this time around is we also do get a couple of people from the community coming alongside us in advance to go to, to go to the schools. Because once we’ve been to a school, it’s the local churches that follow up with with the young people who give their lives to Christ. And what we try to do is we take the names of every single young person who gives their life to Christ. And we follow up with them now beyond that, like on social media and also sending them messages of encouragement. And, you know, we’ve come up with that like a discipleship plan for the young people. And it’s the same young guys who you see going around in the high schools from the teams. They’re the ones who who check on them during the holidays. They’ll come and do a gig for the young people in the communities here. So we try to make sure that we are always constantly engaged with the young people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:57):
Yeah. I was very impressed yesterday mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, because you collected the Twitter and Instagram and TikTok Yeah. Handles for all of the students Yeah. That were in the school. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so that allows you to continue to have influence Yes. In their lives even after you’re gone. Yeah. You can disciple them mm-hmm. <Affirmative> 30 seconds at a time on TikTok.
DJ Moz (13:24):
Yes. And you know, the thing is, that’s the, that’s their world right now. That’s where they, they’re gravitating towards. That’s how they, those are the new communities that they’re making, that they’re building. And that’s a new space of influence for them. And so we try to be intentional being in the spaces where they are. And and I think I’m really glad that the church is also waking up and realizing that we cannot ignore those spaces. And so, man, we cannot afford not to be with them on those social media platforms.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:54):
Let’s talk about results. Last night you were sharing with me that about a year ago you set a goal of reaching 425,000. Yeah. Students. It
DJ Moz (14:06):
Was about two years ago.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:07):
Two years
DJ Moz (14:08):
Ago. Yeah. We wanted to reach out to 450,000 students by June of this year.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:12):
Okay. Yeah. And so you’ve just completed that time period, and you’ve looked at your numbers. What results have you seen in this two year period? Oh man,
DJ Moz (14:22):
<Laugh>, it’s unreal. It hit me, so hit me Good. Because you don’t even realize it. But we had just crossed the 1 million mark.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:35):
Wow. So you more than doubled more than initial goal. Yes. 450,000. Yes. You’ve already hit a million.
DJ Moz (14:42):
We’ve already hit a million. Wow. God is good. God is good. And it, it reminds me of, you know, when Jesus Christ says that the open your eyes, the fields are white, the harvest is plenty, but the laborers are few. That’s very, very real with what we are experiencing. And I know there’s some people who might be like, you know it’s responsible what you guys are doing, but be like, man, Jesus Christ said that the harvest is plenty, but the laborers are few. All we are doing is harvesting what we need are more laborers in. And what we also do need is for the church to rise up and to come and walk along and be able to disciple the young people and not just here, you know, it’s happening all over the world, like sitting with you and you’re telling me that you’re planning to go to El Salvador and you know, God is opening those doors. Think about the highway that’s gonna come.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:33):
Amen.
DJ Moz (15:34):
You know? And so some really, my mind is blown away. And I know we are just starting off in terms of so we, we, we, as we were dreaming about what to experience in the next two years, the 450,000 we’re believing in trusting God that by 2030 we will see. Because when we’re coming up with this plant, it was in 2019, then Covid hit <laugh>. So our plans were delayed by like two years. When we were dreaming, we wanted to reach out, wanted to see 10 million young people coming, giving their lives to Christ through our ministry. And from what we’ve seen we know that in order for us to get to those numbers, we need to reach out to at least 20 or 30 million young people through the school tour that you’re seeing. And so I know that we are just starting off, but it excites me because I’m like man, that number, God has shown us that it’s actually possible, it’s achievable. It’s not by power, it’s not by might, but by his spirit. But then the other thing is we can never sit and settle because Africa has a population of 1.3 billion people. Daniel, out of the 1.3 billion people, 70% are below the age of 30.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:46):
It’s a very young continent. It’s a very young, young. So if you want to reach this continent for Jesus, you have to have a strategy for reaching the young people.
DJ Moz (16:53):
Exactly. So if and even to break it down farther, 41% are below the age of 14.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:02):
Wow.
DJ Moz (17:03):
So if you’re not speaking to this young generation, then who are you speaking with? But I share those numbers just to, just to highlight that even though we are thinking of reaching out to 13 million young people, that’s like an a drop in the ocean. Yeah. Because there’s such a huge population of young people to reach out to. And so my prayer is that that God would raise more and more ev you know, evangelists and you know for more churches to be planted where we can be able to do life together with the young people who are giving their lives to Christ. And maybe even a bigger challenge is to challenge those who are listening to the podcast that don’t just listen to the podcast. I believe that God has called each and every one of us to be actively involved with sharing the gospel.
(17:46):
Otherwise how will they come? Amen. You know, how will they come? And so for those who are listening to the podcast, I just want to say you know, just do not look down on what you have or the spaces that God has placed you in, where God has placed you. He was intentional to place you there because there are people who need to see your lifestyle being lived out of about being a believer. You have an opportunity to share your faith with people when they come and ask you, what’s different about you? Why do you do things this way? Those are such good opportunities to be able to share the gospel or when you do life with them, when you celebrate birthdays with them, or you know, when they’re having weddings or when they’re going through a difficult time, your presence just being there speaks a lot. And they’ll be like, you are different from other people. What’s happening in your life?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:31):
Amen. Yeah. Well, it’s impossible to do what you’re doing without partnership. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I see that you are partnering with Love Kenya Festivals with Andrew Palau. Yeah. You’re also partnering with One Hope. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you’re distributing some of the literature from One Hope. Yeah. And Rob Hoskins leads such a great ministry. Yes, yes. And I saw even you’re partnering with the First Lady of the Nation of Kenya. Yes, we
DJ Moz (18:57):
Are <laugh>
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:58):
What a tremendous privilege. And so she’s opened up doors into the schools. Yes. Yes. And, and it’s impossible for, for you to do what you do without partnership. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so for people who are listening mm-hmm. <Affirmative> who maybe want to invest in helping to reach the young people in Africa mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, they, they want to become maybe a, a partner, a friend mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with your ministry. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, how can they find out more about you?
DJ Moz (19:24):
So they can log into our website that’s www.kubambateens.com.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:29):
Alright. You’ll have to spell Ku Bamba so people can find it.
DJ Moz (19:33):
It’s K U B A M B A. That’s Kuku Bamba and teens like teenagers teens.com.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:40):
Yeah. Mbba teens.com. Yes. And so I encourage you, if, if you want to help reach young people here in Kenya, and now you’re expanding, you want to go to other nations in Africa. Oh bro. I encourage you to, to find out more about DJ Moz. Yeah. And, and support this ministry because what a tremendous impact that you’re having. Thank you. I mean, this team over a million people now. It’s unreal Minister too. <Laugh>.
DJ Moz (20:05):
It’s unreal. And I’m really excited about, you know meeting and just hearing what’s happening and the beauty about working together with like global network of evangelists is meeting fellow evangelists, you know, being able to encourage each other and be able to rally each other around and just see how the great work that God is doing out there. I believe that God says, the Bible says that, you know, we’re seen abound, grace abound even more. And so the world is getting more darker, but then grace is even more readily available. And the thing is, God will never stop pursuing people to their last breath. He’s intentional. He’s intentional man. And the way that God turns people’s lives around is through individuals like you, like me and others who are out there reaching out. And so again, my great call to, you know, again, people who are listening to this podcast is, man, the harvest is plenty.
(21:05):
Whether it’s one that’s a celebration in heaven or whether it’s a million, that’s a celebration in heaven. We just need to be intentional and to engage with God in the task that he’s calling us to do. And we are not alone, bro. You know, God is with us. And if God before us, man, we’re more than conquerors who can be against us, we can be able to raise that culture that we call the culture of the unashamed of in where we’re not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Because the Bible says every knee will bow. So it’s not a matter of if, but when.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:36):
Amen.
DJ Moz (21:36):
And every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Let’s give people the opportunity to do now, to do that now while they’re on this side of the sun. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:45):
Wonderful. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast.
DJ Moz (21:49):
No, thank you so much, man. And keep, keep doing the work that you’re doing. Keep this podcast going on. And I’m really grateful for the platform and the opportunity to be part of this.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:58):
Yes, sir. I’m bless
DJ Moz (21:59):
You now. God bless You too, sir. Thank you, man.
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Lucian Mustata | Heartbeats Music Festival in Romania
Lucian Mustata leads the Heartbeats Music Festival in Romania. He has a heart to spark a revival that will spread across Europe. He was born an orphan but with God’s help he became a successful business owner. Now he has decided to use his success to fuel a movement to reach people for Jesus.
Learn more about the Heartbeats Music Festival: https://heartbeats.events/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, Lucian Mustata. Yes. Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast.
Lucian Mustata (00:15):
Thank you for invite me and I want to send you regards and God bless you. And it’s nice to me also to be here. Thank you for invitation. It’s a very big honor to be with you, Daniel. I, I am like your, my friendship with you and a big honor for me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:33):
I am so impressed with what you do. You started several years ago, Heartbeats Music Festival in the nation of Romania, and it has now grown, grown to be the largest Christian music festival in all of Eastern Europe. And so it is really impressive what God is doing through you. Tell me what gave you the idea that you wanted to start The Heartbeats Music Festival.
Lucian Mustata (01:06):
Heartbeats Festival starts six years ago. Because of my background of in it field, I was traveling a lot in Europe and serving in a church and how God work in my life. I have a lot of I all, what I have is from God and I ask God what I can do more for to serving the kingdom. And that come in my heart for this young generation who’s coming to, at East and I mean so often in Europe traveling, many young people who’s coming at East agnostic, I’m so shocked.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:49):
And agnostics,
Lucian Mustata (01:50):
Atheist. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:51):
Yes. Secularism is very strong in your part of Europe.
Lucian Mustata (01:56):
And I was afraid we become minority and I’m making an image in exercise how will be Christian in 10 years where I will be. And they have a bad image about Christian. We are too traditional. We are too conservatory. We are too a block in something. Now that is not true. I want to show them we can be a real cult Christian, we can join Jesus. And I ask God what I can do for this generation, how I, we can speak, and then contemporary languages because generation A non-conservative, non, they, they don’t like traditional stuff. They don’t like, they don’t. Got it. Some of them don’t, haven’t trust anymore. In church, we don’t, I don’t speak specifically for ev Evangelic side Catholic Orthodox. It’s a, a generation who wants a real authentic relation with God. They want a real argue. They don’t like what’s his parents. They, they want to experiment is by serve the relation with God directly.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:08):
Yeah, I I agree. Absolutely. Our generation is looking for an authentic encounter with God. Yes. The traditions of the past don’t impress them anymore. No. But if they can really meet God for themselves, then they can have a good relationship with
Lucian Mustata (03:25):
Jesus. Yeah. And that is coming the idea because it’s a big demands in Europe, people spend bunch of money from festival, from entertainment in the secular side and in Romania, each festival die, four young people because of drugs.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:46):
Wow.
Lucian Mustata (03:48):
And I says, I, I should do something people had demand, they would love to do, to enjoy. And this is a real need. Why we not to have a festival that can, people can feel encouraged, we can together and gathering in Jesus and feeling they can see a big community, nice community, nice music workshops speaker, why not do that? All the domination congregation that’s coming in, my dear God provide me this vision in one of my dreams. And after that, he give me the name and God guide me by day by day open doors, I will show how God help me to that. And now we are in the third edition.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:35):
Wow. I’m so impressed with you. You were a successful business owner. You run an IT company, you do branding, you help develop websites, lots of great business opportunities in your life. And you’re very successful at that. You have 20 employees who, who work with you, but you saw the condition of the young people and you said something needs to be done to reach them for Jesus. And so you started the Heartbeats Festival and you festival is not a small festival. You’ve actually had some of the largest names in Christianity come as, as guests to, to speak and to sing at the festival. So I watched your video. You had John Maxwell, great leadership expert. You had Nick Hall. I also saw that you had Lecrae this year as one of the singers. Who are some of the other musicians that have come?
Lucian Mustata (05:32):
Jeremy Camp? We are messenger unspoken who should come for King and Country. We already was confirmed, but was postponed because of c
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:45):
So you had Evan Craft who I’ve worked with before.
Lucian Mustata (05:48):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s unbelievable how people respond. It’s not easy to, to ask people to come in the other side of the world, many people in all the countries as well. Is Romania on the map of the world? I’m afraid to come and it’s not easy. But with God, they’ll great relation and step by step, God will will help me to,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:12):
Let’s talk about some, about how heartbeats music festival has impacted lives in Romania. What testimonies have you seen come out of this event?
Lucian Mustata (06:25):
The first edition we saw over than 800,000, 800 people who decided to follow Jesus. Wow. We have in I think
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:37):
For Rome, for Europe. That that is an amazing number. Yes. Like here in Africa, we’re, we’re in Kenya, Africa right now, you know, we see 800 every day. But, but for Europe to see 800 young people make a commitment to follow Jesus, that is a miracle for the continent of Europe.
Lucian Mustata (06:55):
But also it’s a benefit for the awareness society. Yeah. I heard a benefit after six months or one years after the festival, one church told me, ah, we had 200 people more. Our church was grow because of the festival. And we had other church told me we had 10 people who back in church and there was not anymore coming in our church over than 10 years. And we, what is our how God work, I’m shock and I’m accomplish side of his love. And the secular side start to promote us, the, the one of the most influence of Romania, the Catholic church, the radio in the secular side. I don’t, I don’t understand what happened. I just happened. It is not my credits. It’s just God credit.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:46):
So even the secular radio stations were Yes. Were advertising Yeah. The
Lucian Mustata (07:50):
Event by free.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:52):
Wow. That now that’s a miracle, you know?
Lucian Mustata (07:54):
Yeah. They are four, 4 million people each day. Wow. And this is unbelievable. I think people need Jesus. And they, once our peace inner and anytime all what you try in this world, money, drugs, sex, never be happy. The only one who can really, and you can find your peace. And this is the creation. And I think people, it’s a, it’s starting to be become a revival Europe. And we are one of the most evangelic country in the Europe.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:29):
The, the country of Romania is one of the largest Yes. Evangelical Yes. Populations by percentage.
Lucian Mustata (08:34):
Yes. And I, I’ve, I have a vision and God told me will be a big revive to, for Europe, through Romania, we start a fire fate from, from Romania, from all the Europe.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:48):
So you wanted to start a fire in Romania and spread that revival across all of Europe.
Lucian Mustata (08:52):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:53):
That’s amen. Lord, make it be
Lucian Mustata (08:55):
So. Amen. Let’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:57):
Talk about your testimony, because when you were growing up, you didn’t have the most ideal circumstances. Tell me about what your life was like when you were a kid and, and you were a actually an orphan.
Lucian Mustata (09:12):
That is true. And I love to share my story because it’s a, it’s a real wonder for my life. And God makes so many he love me and he’ll help me to be where I am. I was growing originally from where I was in the beginning. The, the family leave me alone in the, from beginning when I was born in hospital, they abandoned me. And orphan from the government took me. And there was growing there until 18 18 years old was very tough life. I was not love. I was not, never say mother, father was a, in a, an environment, very violent. And the results, when you have take care of 50 people, you are object. There, you, you’re not a soul. And was, I was trying to work with myself to educate myself from people who I meet. Was
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:22):
You had no father, no mother, no one who loved you?
Lucian Mustata (10:25):
No. And nobody tell who what, what you do. How are you? And I’m trying to find my, my family. My father die and then result results of rape, repent. I’m results of the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:39):
You, your birth was the result of your father raping your mother. Yes.
Lucian Mustata (10:44):
But is my real father is not in my identity card.
(10:50):
And I still have a, a problem with ab feeling with abandoned and trauma of this when people my friends, it’s not still stuck with me. For me, it’s more hard because it’s activated trigger of abandon from my heart for my life. Mm-Hmm. yes. And when I stay alone on Christmas without family, I have period without to have to eat. Because sometime people steal from me, them food or money. Mm-Hmm. I need to work from when I had eight 14 years old. I need to survive was very tough. But I was an I down and I wake up every time people call me like a fighter. And God, I’m trying to chasing why I live in this heart, this live this, this life, this life. Why God give me this life. I was fairly very, I feel very discouraged, very disappointed. And why I live, I, it made no sense to live this, this life to be alone, to see people who, in my school, I was very stigmatization how I, I dunno how it call in English.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:12):
Stigmatized,
Lucian Mustata (12:13):
Stigmatized people from school even I was very good in in school. They, because I was growing and that’s there, they don’t give me good Mark Transp. And also the, with a vulnerably group, who is that? People told me every time, you are stupid, you are stupid. And can sometimes can make in know heart. I’m real stupid. It was very, very hard. But when I, when I had 18 years old, because I stay alone on Christmas, and it’s very hard because I see everybody’s family. I decided to see in a concert every Christmas, a Christmas, a secular Christmas concert. But this, that period, I didn’t have money. And I saw on a, on a paper in a city, on a Christmas free one, and I was, there was in a church events. I didn’t know it was a church.
(13:21):
And after this Christmas events concert, I preachers speak 15 minutes what meaning of Christmas that make me to, to say, wow, I didn’t know this is means Christmas from my side, my word. It was just Christmas party gift, commercial. And that time make me to, put me to ask who you are, what you do here. And I’m starting my working with God to learning. I’m going this church every Sunday. And I, I, I was very hangry to read to, to see the lesson from Bible because it’s very authentic, even in our day. And the God changed my heart, my mind, and I find a real peace for my heart. And that way I understand my father is directly God and Jesus I find to be, I, I feel I’m love and God has a real plan with my life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:26):
And he will never abandon you. Yes. How old were you when you heard that Christmas message that made you to start thinking about God?
Lucian Mustata (14:34):
18 years old.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:35):
Wow. Yes. And so you started your pathway towards God, and God began to bless you.
Lucian Mustata (14:43):
Yes. In that moment, I find how I need to live in this world. I find Christian is a lifestyle and I understand how can, can to be in the coordinator of God and God teach me how I can be blessed if I respect the rules and the Bible to live like that, Jesus to be on me, to live with Jesus and God because it’s directly Father, he provide me all that I need every time. I just have faith. And he helped me to finish college cybernetic to finish, to master degree sign political and project management. And I didn’t have money to pay for college and guide God helped me was 20,000 people for this test to enter in a college. I didn’t have money to pay to apply for this college. But because I was orphan, I was by law of allowed to have a free test. But the people from, there was nobody history to come in our college orphan to
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:57):
Receive. They never had an orphan take advantage. Yeah, yeah. Of the opportunity before
Lucian Mustata (16:00):
Our, by our rules in college, this not meant adaptable for that. They were shocked. They received kind of this request, but they make it to have this test and was just 20, was 20,000 people applying just for 600 places in this college. And 300 was scholarship and 300 after we, we need to pay 2003 years Euro. And I was crying when I saw I was 312. I was shocked. I don’t know how the lady from commission make it to have this test, but God help me to, to have a pleasure. But after two weeks, I should pay all the amount for the years.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:53):
And, and you didn’t have the money. No. You were an orphan. You were hoping to get the scholarship. You got into school out of 20,000, you’re one of the 600, but you just fell short of getting the scholarship for the 300. This is
Lucian Mustata (17:07):
So what happened? This was my chance for my future. I, I know it. If I will not, I will, I will show all the people who stole me. I’m a stupid, I can make it and God help me to do that. And I, I need to pay to every day to cook, for me to clean, for me to work every day. And study was so hard to, I didn’t, was too over my power. And I was growing and I was to church. I am praying and I ask, God, please help me. I I have trust in you. I do my, my part. Please God, do your part. And the last day I receive a call. I, I loaned someone, but not enough. I was so scary. I will lose my places, my chance for the future. And then the lady who received me from the commission to, when I applied for, to enter the, the test, she called me and, Hey, you are Lucian. Yes. do you want money from me? From the test applying? Says, no, no, no. Don’t worry about this. This guy was scared. She wants more money from the applying. She says, have a big problem. Then you’re thinking, oh, what happened? She says, Lucian, over the three, three nights, God wake me up three o’clock in the morning, I’m crying. And God told me to pay all the school.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:32):
Wow.
Lucian Mustata (18:33):
And I was over crying. And I don’t understand how God’s working this unbelievable. She meet me just two minutes in all my entire life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:45):
And God spoke to her. Yes. To pay for your schooling. Yes. What a miracle.
Lucian Mustata (18:49):
Many kind of, this was in my heart, in my life. I can all what I have is because of God. And for that reason, I decided to all what I say with my company to invest in, in a ministry for the next generation from the kingdom. I can be selfish. I can buy parchments, rent people, and I can enjoy my life to be selfish. Like what? Dominican many business people. But no, I decided it’s not, it is not correct. All I have is because of God and I need to, because when God give more people, he’ll request to much overlap for people. And then I, I feel honored to serving the kingdom and God will provide. It was very hard to do this, a big sacrifice to do this festival, the budget. It’s insane. It’s very hard in, even in Europe, it’s more expensive in other country. And this is a tough country that we are in a Baptist of 60, the traditional church. Some people, some of church believe we are too earth.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:50):
And so the, the church in Romania very traditional. Yes. And they don’t necessarily know what to think about having lights and smoke and, and loud music.
Lucian Mustata (20:01):
Yeah. Our heart is to go to the secular side and God was stay on the, on to, to eat with the people out of the church. And our heart is to, to become our dream, dream of God, to save the lost people. And we need to be with them and to encourage them. It’s a fighting of generation now. We need not need to stay in our bubble to make a our world is perfect because in our round in church is perfect. That is not true. The the realities, the young generation, they don’t anymore believe in God. And we need to make something. If fer not do something will be very hard for us. And we have a real, we have a real Jesus. We need to make it something for that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:51):
Amen. Well, it requires a lot of money and resources in order to pull off a music festival at this level of quality and professionalism and bringing in such amazing guests from all over the world. If someone wants to help you out with reaching Romania for Jesus and really having an impact on all of Eastern Europe, how can they get in touch with you? Can they go to your, your website? It’s heartbeats events.
Lucian Mustata (21:22):
Yes, that is true. They can write us there and they can pray for us. We are, we really need help to be uniting in the kingdom resources. We are looking for ministry partners and we are very open to that. This is not my, this is a project of God and we invite people to celebrate with us what God do in Europe. And if you want to be part of this ministry and celebrate with what, what God do in Europe, it’s amazing. We also, we are serving for free Ukrainian people because now they’re in a big news and this is only one God can offer them the peace in heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:03):
You have lots of Ukrainians coming across the border. Yeah. Two into Romania.
Lucian Mustata (22:07):
Wow. 2 million people coming in a we need, we want to serving them. We offer free tickets. We’re consulting, healing, and we want to be a really blessed, they need God now. And I we forget to tell you the vision of the HARs is not in in a crochet, just, it’s a big movement than that. The, we are one of the largest Christian festival, but we are part of the movement. We want to reach 1 million, at least in on the next 10 years. Rich people through the believer. We want all the years to promote through the platform, to keep and disciples, believers, how they going and commit to bring unbelievers and to make to expose to the Bible, to the gospel. And our goal and our vision is to reach 1 million, at least in next 10 years in East Europe.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:06):
Amen. Yeah. Well, I believe you can do it. You know, some people have said that Europe is a post-Christian country. It used to be Christian, but now it’s secular. But I like to say Europe is a pre-Christian continent and they are ready and ripe to come to Jesus. The harvest fields are ripe. And God says, just pray for laborers to be sent out into the harvest fields. And I am so thankful that you have stood up to be one of those laborers. And I’m so impressed with what you’re doing in Romania with a heartbeats festival and this movement to reach a million people over the next 10 years. What a tremendous blessing that is.
Lucian Mustata (23:47):
Thank you, brother. And I feel my friendship with you. I’m so glad I meet you in my life and I feel so encouraged about your ministry and yes. Through an orphan, God can do it. People with nobody can grow people. And the grow generation you sees, God, how’s moving? It’s it’s unbelievable.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:09):
I got one more question for you. Will you invite me to come to Romania? Of
Lucian Mustata (24:13):
Course. We’d love to be our, one of the preacher and to be encouraged to for the next generation. Brother, thank you very much.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:22):
Awesome. I’ve been praying for Europe, and so I believe that the time will come where we will see a great harvest together working in Europe. Thank you Lucian, for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
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Moses Muguro | Empowering the Local Church for Evangelism
Moses Muguro pastors in Nairobi, Kenya. He completed his Doctorate of Ministry at Multnoma University. The focus of his research was evangelism in the local church. He is implementing his research in his church with innovative ideas like using sports for evangelism. You will be inspired as you listen to the story of what he is doing to reach people for Jesus in Kenya.
Connect with Pastor Moses Muguro on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/moses.muguro
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I am in Nairobi, Kenya with my good friend, pastor Moses Muguro . Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Moses Muguro (00:15):
Thank you very much Dr. Daniel King for this coming to Kenya and this moment to be with you. This is a miracle
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:23):
<Laugh>. Now, yesterday we had a wonderful time. I flew in 7:30 AM I landed. Yes. And you came to the airport. You picked me up, took me straight over to your church. And I had the wonderful privilege and opportunity of, of ministering. And you have such a beautiful church. It’s you, you’re so
Moses Muguro (00:42):
Blessed. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Yeah. The Lord has blessed us in amazing ways. But one of the things with our church is we are a church that has a focus to reach out, not to stay within the four corners of the church. We have an obligation and we usually, I usually tell the church and we tell each other, we are not just building a church. It’s Jesus who said, I will build my church. Our work is to go out and bring sinners to Christ. So we are there to be equipped in the church. It is an equipping station at the congregation. This is just an equipping station. You get equipped, but you don’t stay inside. The work is out there. We minister to the people inside when they get saved, and then we release them into their destinations, into their fields. That is what we feel as a church. God has called us for
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:37):
Now. What is the name of your church?
Moses Muguro (01:39):
It is called Pentecostal Evangelistic Fellowship of Africa. All Nations Gospel by Church Perfa per stands, Pentecostal Evangelistic Fellowship of Africa.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:49):
Wow. It was such a, a privilege to be there yesterday. Now, you and I have been friends for a while now. Yes. We first met at Multnomah University Yes. In Portland, Oregon. Yes. You were there studying with Dr. Tim Rob net. Yes. And he has one of the only evangelism programs at the doctoral level in the entire United States. And so you are going through the, the doctorate of Ministry program there at Multnomah University, and the focus of your research was evangelism. And so I, I had the opportunity to take one class, and so we met, we became friends. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you also have a brother George. He a twin
Moses Muguro (02:31):
Brother
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:32):
George, who is your twin. And so both of you love Jesus and are serving the Lord. Indeed. Indeed. Now, now tell me a little bit about the research that you did for your doctorate to ministry.
Moses Muguro (02:44):
Yeah. it was a miracle meeting with you at the Morton University, and just God connected us. And my, the, my research, the focus of my paper is raising evangelist in the local churches. And I specifically gave that to my church because I began raising local evangelist in local churches. The evangelist, especially in Africa, is not the, the, the evangelist is not recognized. He’s not identified. Is that is a By the way, we are planning evangelism meeting next week. So where is the evangelist? But in my, in my focus, I began raising local evangelist. And every fortnight, every two weeks, I began a class for evangelist. Every Sunday afternoon, bring the evangelist from my church and other churches and just begin to train them to work with them, to equip them. We get to hear their testimonies, what God is doing.
(03:46):
And in my, in my church, I have evangelist and some of them are in the pay, pay payroll because the, the, the evangelist is a very vital part of the body of Christ. Christ gave us the apostles, the prophet, the evangelist, the pastor, the teacher. So the evangelist is part of the part of the minister to equip the body and also to go out. And so that’s what we do. Every fortnight, the evangelists come, and I also invite other evangelists outside to come and share with them to equip them. And it is amazing what God is doing when we begin to align ourselves and hear the voice of the Holy Spirit on the place of evangelist and then time harvest.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:37):
And so how have you implemented this research in your church? What results have you seen?
Moses Muguro (04:46):
Thank you very much. I have seen for the last actually more than three years, I have seen the evangelist gaining, number one, gaining confidence and recognize and being recognized in the body of Christ. As ministers, they’re being recognized and they’re being identified, and they’re being helped even financially. I mean, people standing with them and saying, yes, this is very important. This is very key. And even the church recognizing we have to embrace the evangelist, the office of the evangelist, and also the local evangelist. We have to work with them. We have to allow them to minister both within and outside. So I’ve seen churches, not just even my church, I’ve seen churches realizing this is important. Pastor Moses is doing this. I’m a pastor and an evangelist. I’m an evangelist and a pastor. I don’t know which comes first. I, I, I realize I, I operate in both offices. And by the grace of God, I have been able to identify, equip, and even empower and begin to release to release evangelist into the harvest field.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:06):
I think this is so important because often in the church, the pastor is recognized mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, if you feel called to be in ministry. Yes. Then people say, oh, you must be called to be a pastor. Yes. But the, the gift of the evangelist is a little bit different than the gift of the, the pastor. And sometimes what you find is that evangelists who are called to be evangelists, they get pushed into being pastors. And, and then if they, they try to do evangelism, there doesn’t seem to be a place for them. And so I think it’s so important to elevate and lift up the, the understanding of the office of the evangelists. We need evangelists in the church.
Moses Muguro (06:47):
And, and, and what you’re saying is very true, especially for Africa. It is been bad. We, we had stretched to the extreme where the evangelist was like evangelism work, and the evangelist was left for the young people, the guys who have nothing to do. If you’re called to the ministry, go to the Bible school. You are sent to the church to be a pastor. And many of them struggled because when you are an evangelist and you’re fixed into an office that is not yours or into a ministry that is not yours, you’ll always struggle. You’ll always have scam something like, no, there is something. I’m missing the calling of God. The mantra of God in my life is I am an evangelist. And when I began to equip evangelists, like some of them, I’ll buy them even portable public address system and give them, they’ll be so excited the following day I’ll see them reaching out, and I’m like, you are an evangelist.
(07:47):
You have been fixed to be a Bible teacher. But look, you are now your voice. Look at your passion. Look at the heartbeat, everything about you. You actually realize this is who God called me into. This is from the creation of the world. God wanted me to be a proclaimer of the good news of Jesus Christ, and to proclaim it as an evangelist. So I have, it is one evangelist, is one of the people who are actually, we are waiting for the ministry of evangelism to be fulfilled. Then Jesus comes the gospel to be proclaimed everywhere. And Jesus comes. So he’s one of the key persons who is very vital in this time season.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:35):
Take a moment to talk to other African pastors if they want to lift up evangelism in their church. First of all, how do they identify people in the church who maybe have the gift of an evangelist? And then second, how do they start to give opportunities to evangelists, to, to preach the gospel. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then how do they train them so that they can be equipped to really do the ministry that God has called them to do? How can we here in Africa start to lift up more evangelists?
Moses Muguro (09:08):
Yeah. Thank you very much. The first and the most important thing is when, when, when, when a believer has come to Christ and has been discipled given raised and given the word of God and now reached, and then this person begins, usually you find people who begin to volunteer. They’re giving themselves, they’re saying, I need to serve. I need to do somewhere. And then you realize this is, this is a, it’s like a baby, and I can see a talent. They’re, they’re, they’re pulling well on this side, they’re doing well on this side. And then you begin to, to tap that talent. And all of the things I do is identify them in the church. And then I create a forum. You, you, you, you, you have a passion. You, you want to, and I begin teaching the whole church the importance of evangelism.
(10:00):
And there are people who will volunteer, call them out. Please come. If this is your heartbeat, if, if you feel that God has laid a burden for sins, come, we want to walk with you. So I identify them, and then I begin to see little talent. This person is flowing in the outdoors. This person has a talent in this area. I begin to sharpen them to walk with them. You, you are in the marketplace, evangelist. I want you to go there. You are a full-time evangelist. I want you to be quit. I have sent some to Bible school not to be quit as pastors, to be quit and nourished and given the right staff. Then when they come out, I begin now to give them to, we create the class. When we created the class, the people we had sent to Bible school, they also need to come to the evangelism class.
(10:50):
Then I give them public address systems, drugs, materials. And then I give them opportunity. I give these people opportunity even to teach, to teach in the church the importance of evangelism. Another teachings, some of my evangelists have given them topics. Topics. This is an evangelist who was growing up, teachers about Stephen was an evangelist. Bring to us a character of Stephen. And then I give the evangelist to do that homework, and they give, bring it out that well, but I’m building also these evangelists to pick these characters and to build up with them. And then I give them also Sunday service to minister to the church, because the ministry of evangelism and the minister of the evangelist has a lot of blessings. It carries with it healing and encouragement, comfort, both within the church and outside the church. And I see God using them in different aspects.
(11:46):
They’re releasing different encouragement to the body. And then they go out. They have a lot of boldness. The pastor has commissioned us because if they’re not commissioned, they’ll not be, they’ll be operating within any umbrella. I mean, outside an umbrella, they can be attacked. So I commission them go to this direction but come back and report and tell me what happened. Go to the school, come back and report what happened. So the pastors in Africa, we must first of all identify. They’re already there. They’re already there. The giftings of the evangelism evangelist is already in the church. Identify, then you recruit, beginning listing. In my church, I had to enlist. I had to write down, write down your name in that particular class. Then from there, train them, equip them, send them to Bible school, have classes within the church. Then opportunity, open opportunities for them. Because if you don’t also open opportunities for them, they might not have the strength to knock doors, but when they go with a, like, they need a letterhead, an introduction letter to go to this school, that gives them a, a very big platform. They’re recognized. You’re coming from this direction. So it is very important we begin working those steps by steps and begin to create an awareness in the church that evangelists are part of the ministry of the church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:17):
Now, you have actually implemented these ideas in your church, and one of your innovative ideas is to do evangelism by sports. Yes. And so you are starting a basketball tournament inviting many different basketball teams from your neighborhood to come to the church. And then you plan to sponsor them playing against one another, then feed them and, and give them something. And, and then evangelize, tell these basketball players about Jews. So yesterday we went and we anointed the basketball court as a tool for evangelism. Yes. And then you also plan to do the same thing with football. Tell, tell me some about those plans and what you hope to see God do.
Moses Muguro (14:04):
Yeah. you know, evangelist King, one of the things that God is doing with the, this generation of evangelist is we just have to ask God for ideas. Yeah. because God is not limited with ideas. Even in Africa, we don’t have those big resources, but God can give us fresh ideas because God is a God of freshness every morning, fresh manner. Yeah. And so we’ve been doing different approaches, which I can share of evangelism going out street evangelism pray, walking in our estate evangelism. And recently we said, why don’t we now begin to be to create a very good awareness, friendship to these young people in the community. And we we, we just begin to brainstorm and say, Hey, what are the approaches? And one of the approaches, sport evangelisms evangelism through sports, and we said with the young people, we are starting with the basketball.
(15:08):
And guess what? We changed our parking lot into a basketball co a pitch. So Saturday, I called the painter, paint this place and make it a basketball pitch. And I had told the, the, the young people on Sunday, we’ll be anointing the ground and releasing the game. And the, by the grace of God evangelist King is here on Sunday. So we anointed that basketball pitch, which is our parking lot. And I’m sure some of the members of the church are like, oh, pastor’s bringing sports into the church. But you see, the thing is, when I went there yesterday after the church by five, I was in the, in the, in the church. And the boys were playing, and they were about a hundred and something boys and girls who had come to watch the game. And my, my, my evangelism, young people were evangelists, were the, my evangelism team were witnessing to these boys.
(16:11):
And we had put Christian music. And these are boys I’ve never seen in church. These are boys who are not Christians. And remember, we have anointed the field and we have said, whoever steps in here, the power of God must touch them. I was excited because the only way for us to reach this generation, like the young people, is to befriend them, is to go to them and tell them, I’m a friend. I am a parent. I have a, I have a, I have a young boy you prayed for who graduated my son wisdom. And for me to become a friend to wisdom, I mean, to reach him, I have become, to become a friend. And I know with sports, every boy loves sports. So I could see all these boys, and they are happy. They’re like, dads have not come here to bo bundles with the, with a gospel message.
(17:03):
But they are creating a forum for us to have fun. As they’re having fun. I’m also taking care of their health. They’re not at home just watching cheap televisions that we get from China, wasting their time. They’re exercising. Number two. Number three, I’m keeping them engaged in the right environment. They’re not going out there where they can do all kinds of things. Drugs. They’re within the safe environment. Every parent would want to release their boys and girls. I could see the girls there. I could see children there. Parents were very comfortable. Number four, it is an opportunity for these boys because many of them are not working. We have a lot of joblessness. Yeah. So now we are beginning to see, we can form a sports club that can go very far. That was begun by a church. That is a vision for the young people. And the vision for the, for president and the leadership in Africa is to engage in our young people in productivity. So they become product. And now the main thing, number five, we are winning them to Christ. Wow. So this is the focus for the men. We have begun, we have begun soccer evangelism through through sports soccer.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:21):
Now here in Kenya, do you call it soccer or football?
Moses Muguro (18:23):
We call it football.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:24):
Okay. So, so football, half, most of the world calls it football. In America, we say soccer. But let’s think about the math. Yesterday in, in, in church, you said that you had 20 teams that signed up for the tournament. And each team has 20 players. Yes. And so, 20 times 20, 400, 400, you are going to have the opportunity to impact the lives of 400 young people. And plus, when all the boys come to play soccer, all the girls will come to watch them. Yes. The parents will come to watch them. And you will have the opportunity to have a major impact in your area.
Moses Muguro (19:04):
I have never worked this way before, but I believe it’s the vision of the Holy Spirit. ’cause We’ve been praying, we have a prayer center. We’ve put the map of Africa, the map of the world, and we’ve been saying, Lord, give us a nation ask of the Lord. And he give you the nation for an inheritance. Yeah. And even for a community. And the men, as we were talking, they said, why don’t you do soccer, football? And as, as, as I told you, they have invited 20 teams and they have invited the member of Parliament for our community. They have invited the, the member of County Assembly. They have invited different groups. They have hired public address system. We have hired the biggest field in our community, the biggest field that is owned by the Kenya Airport Authority. They have allowed us, because it is a big tournament, tournaments are coming.
(19:55):
They’re hearing that this is happening. We are sponsoring as a church. It is not cheap. But the gospel is not cheap. The gospel is not cheap. And I think many times when we make it cheap, that is when we get cheap results. So we are saying, as a church, we will do everything possible. Let these things come, let them pray, let them play. Let them go the professional way. We’ll have professional coaches, professional referees, and everybody, but we are winning these people to Christ before the games. We pray after the games, we pray for them. We share the gospel with them. They have accepted that. And because we are we, we, we, they have accepted us. We are not condemning them. We are telling them, come, come on, come with your friends. This is a nice time. Because we have a lot of, you see these men and these young boys and girls, many of them are not working.
(20:51):
This will be holidays, especially for the soccer. So they’ll all be there. And we have three days. We are doing it for three days, three consecutive days. We have a winner, a cup that will be donated. We are asking the member of parliament to come and present it. And we want him also to hear the gospel plus his enter, plus his team and the whole community. And this is what we, this is what I’ve come to realize eventually is also have to keep asking God for step past. What is the next level, Lord, if you are in this community, how will you reach them? And Christ will use all these avenues. He’ll use the boat to sit down. Yeah. He’ll use the net. He’ll use all those things. And we now have to begin using the boats, the nets, the donkeys of our days, all those opportunities that are there to bring people the recreation.
(21:50):
Christ would go to the seaside and minister to people, because that’s a good place. That’s a good spot for people. There was grass where Christ was teaching, and he was organizing all these people. Disciples let them sit in 50. And when we begin to see the aspect of Lord, give us direction, give us freshness. Give us all these platforms that are in this planet for us to communicate the gospel, then these sins, they’re ready to receive the gospel. They’re ready to hear. Actually, I think we’ve, I’ve come to realize the biggest problem has been the church. Because the church, we closed ourselves to the four corners. And we thought our, our main business is a four corners. We have the best choir in the church. We stay there. Seniors will not come there. There’ll be one or two or three. And that’s why in our sports evangelism, like yesterday, all these bad boys were outside comfortable.
(22:52):
They’re comfortable. They’re like, oh, we don’t see here guys. The pastor with the collar and everybody chasing us and telling us, can you be seated here? Well, and can you be quiet? They were all cheering. They were all loud. Wow. I was telling them, cheer your team this is a beach and be happy, have fun. But at the end of it, I know I am breaking an ice. Where they have seen the church is like, I’m not welcome. We are telling them we are actually not inside the church. We are outside where God is. And I believe this is the direction the, the, the Lord is showing us as a church. We just have to keep out going out. We are an equipping sta station as a church to be equipped. And then we can’t stay with all this energy. If we stay with all this energy. Oh, they’re like the fallers. If we stay here, we die. We’d rather go out. We’d rather at midnight wake up, go meet this army. And we realize God is at work. The angels are at work. The Holy Spirit is at, and he’s waiting for just the fallers. So in Africa, we are like those people, but we are realizing the light has come. The light has come. Well, I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:07):
Love your heart for evangelism, your heart, for raising up evangelism in the local church. And I believe God will give you a great harvest of souls.
Moses Muguro (24:18):
Amen. Through
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:19):
This evangelism by sports. Amen. It is a big investment for your church. Yes. But I believe that it will produce great results in the years to come. And, and God will give you many people that will, will come to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior. These young people. God’s gonna raise them up to be Yes. Leaders here in Africa. Amen. And pastors and evangelists and, and great business leaders and politicians and Amen. And so God’s gonna do many things through this outreach.
Moses Muguro (24:49):
You know, one young man who came there, had, had, had gone back was once a Christian and went back and he came and he was drunk. He was a young man. I knew him. Yeah. And his name is David. And he told me, you know, pastor, I’m back. I’m back to me, for him to tell me I’m back, it was like the prodigal son coming back home. And you see, I could try many ways to reach him, but he saw his friends outside the church court playing and his arm back. Wow. So we have to, you know, all these people they’re waiting to be received. Mm-Hmm. The, the, the, the, we have just to open our hands, our hearts and our resources, and receive all these sons and daughters because they’re the God loves them. God caress for them.
(25:46):
God is thinking while we are inside the church, God is saying, but I have other ship who are out there, and I leave the 99, I go and I go for those ones. So you have to partner with God when he’s leaving the 99 to go for the one ship. And that’s what, as a church, we are saying, there’s this one ship. And when Christ is leaving the 99, I don’t want to be in the 99. I want to be with Christ when he’s going for this one to bring this one to the 99. So that’s what God has put into my heart as an evangelist. And even raising other evangelist. We now have to be uncomfortable. We have to be uncomfortable where we’ve been so comfortable. Things are like everything is okay in the church. No. I believe even the reason why there is a stirring up in many churches is because we don’t go out. If we go out, then we’ll bring freshness. But if we don’t go out, there’s no freshness in the church. So that’s what I told my church. If you don’t go out, we’ll be fighting the choir. Do not sing good songs today. But let’s, let’s take the choir outside and you realize those songs are good <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:55):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being on the Evangelism podcast.
Moses Muguro (27:00):
Thank you. Thank you, Dr. King. I appreciate you coming to Africa. This is very prophetic. And you, you released a prophetic word in my church. We are going far. Amen. We are experiencing a new level in Jesus
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:15):
Name. Well, we are a pair of docs. Amen. Dr. Moses. Yes. Dr. Daniel together. Yes. Winning the world for
Moses Muguro (27:22):
Jesus. Winning the world for Jesus. Amen. And thank you for your testimonies. How when you grew up, you are Jesus. That was
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:30):
<Laugh>
Moses Muguro (27:31):
What?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:31):
Thank Yeah. In the drama. I always play the part of Jesus in the drama to lead people to Jesus.
Moses Muguro (27:36):
Amen. Amen. You’re an encouragement to the evangelist in Africa. Thank
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:42):
You. And
Moses Muguro (27:42):
Keep coming to Africa.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:43):
Oh, I love Africa. Amen. It is wonderful to be here in Kenya.
Moses Muguro (27:47):
Amen. Amen. God bless you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:49):
Amen. I’ll come back.
Moses Muguro (27:50):
Welcome. And you are welcome, Kenya. Make it one of your headquarters and we’ll be very happy because we have to reach Somalia. We have to reach a Ethiopia, Sudan, South Sudan right now. Yeah. It is in chaos. Central Africa Republic. We have to Libya. Libya is in Kios, and we have to go out Egypt Malawi, Mozambique, those African countries. I, I’ve been to a few and I shed tears because they need a gospel. Amen. They need a gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:24):
Amen. Well, I believe that God will raise up young people in your church that you’ll even begin to send out as evangelists and missionaries. Oh, yes. Across this entire part of Africa.
Moses Muguro (28:34):
Oh, yes. Oh yes. That, that’s, that’s our heartbeat. We have the map of Africa in our prayer room and actually the whole map of the world and also the map of Africa and rich people groups. And we have all these nations and we keep praying for them. But now I’m saying the harvest is playing for the laborers are few. Lord, send the labors. And we are the labors. Yeah. So we also have to begin hearing the Lord saying, now go. Now go. I mean, God answers, but he also comes and says, you, you are the solution. You have the answer. So I’ve been telling them, Somalia, we have to go. If you don’t go, then they will. There will be instability in Somali. They’ll come to us. When they come to us. They’ll disturb us. When they disturb us. We have no option but to go pray for them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, go speak to them. And we have seen a little bit of that in Kenya. And I tell my Kenyan, my Kenyan ministers, we should be careful because, because we are not going to them. God will bring them to us. Amen. And he’s doing
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:33):
It. Amen. Amen.
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Nick Hurst | Young Evangelist Launches Out
Nick Hurst is a young evangelist who is on the brink of doing big things for God. He was one of the Pulse 100 evangelists who were trained by Evangelist Nick Hall. Over 1.48 million people have already subscribed to Chelsea and Nick’s YouTube channel and today he gives some advice to evangelists who want to be used by God on social media.
Follow Nick Hurst on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officialnickh/?hl=en
Check out Nick and Chelsea’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ChelseaandNick
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, Nick Hurst. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast,
Evangelist Nick Hurst (00:11):
Man. Honored to be with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:13):
We are in Kenya, and we are involved in a gospel festival here with Love Kenya. It’s organized by the global evangelist or global network of evangelists, a ministry under Luis Palau Ministries. And you came here as one of the guest evangelists, and I’m also here participating in the event. And so it’s been so good to get to know
Evangelist Nick Hurst (00:42):
You. Yeah, man. Likewise, just hearing your story, you know, I’ve looked up to your ministry for a long time, but seeing you in the flesh and hearing details and just what God sent in your life and through your ministry, and the lessons learned along the way, I mean, it’s been really insightful for me as a young guy, you know, just kind of working my way into, you know, the, the festivals a bit more and just hearing different perspectives on it has been really, really valuable. So I appreciate you, appreciate your ministry and appreciate this podcast and how it helps, you know, other evangelists too.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:11):
Yeah, absolutely. Now you say you’re young. How old are
Evangelist Nick Hurst (01:14):
You right now? I’m 25.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:16):
- So you’re just launching out in the evangelistic calling that God has on your life. How did you know that you were called to be an evangelist?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (01:26):
Hmm. That’s such a good question. Yeah. You know, I was 14 years old when I gave my life to Jesus. I was at a summer camp in boiling Springs in North Carolina, and I gave my life to Jesus. But that same night, I sensed that God was calling me to the ministry. Now, in my context where I come from, I thought that I was going to take over the family farm with my brother, and that we were going to be co-owners. And that was really the future that I saw for myself. And then God just really got a hold of my heart, and Jesus really became the biggest part of my story, became the biggest part of my life. He became the central focus of everything and really changed my life in a moment. And I knew that God was calling me to ministry. Now, the tougher part of that story is I didn’t know what part of ministry.
(02:13):
I didn’t know if I was called to be a pastor. I didn’t know if I was called to be a teacher. I didn’t know if I was called to be in worship ministry. I didn’t know if I was called to be an evangelism. I, I, I really didn’t know. So I prayed for six months after I gave my life to Jesus, knowing that I was called to ministry, but seeking an answer from God as to where in ministry I was supposed to be, where he had gifted me and where he was calling me. And so I prayed for six months and in early 2013, so the following year, so summer of 12, I give my life to Jesus. And early the next year in 2013, I I attend an event in Jacksonville, Florida. I’m from the north north central region of the state of Florida.
(02:58):
And I go to event and I hear this evangelist, remarkable evangelist, great friend to you and I both named Nick Hall. And Nick is at this event, and he is preaching. And all of a sudden I just sense the room go quiet. And I thought it was really awkward because I thought, you know, the tech guy’s gonna run out on the stage, you know, give Nick a new mic so that he can keep preaching. But that’s not what happened. And in fact, the whole time that the room is silent, I see my friends who are sitting next to me, who came with me to the event writing and taking notes in this arena, looking down at their notes, looking up at Nick, looking down at their notes and, and writing a bit more. And that’s when I realized that I was the only one who couldn’t hear Nick.
(03:41):
And in that moment of stillness, it was like the Lord placed a a moment of stillness on me and for me, and I just sense God, say I want you to go and preach the gospel, whether that’s big settings, small settings, anywhere in between to the one or to the a hundred thousand doesn’t really matter. But the, the important thing that I took away from that night was, Nick, I want you to preach the gospel to the lost, to those who don’t know me. And so I began to tell pastors, friends, leaders in my life at that point that I sensed God wanting me to go and share the gospel with the lost. And they began to affirm the call as an evangelist. Now, I had never heard that word. I didn’t even know what the word meant. And I was like, an, an evangel, what is an evangelist?
(04:29):
And then that, that’s when I finally understood, like, you know, they take me to Ephesians and they show me that when, you know, God has given different ministries to different ones, and one is evangelism, meaning that we take the gospel to the ends of the earth to the lost. And that day I realized, and it was affirmed and very, very clear to me that to be an evangelist was what God was calling me to do. It’s looked a lot of different ways over the years. It’s looked digital, it’s looked in person, it’s looked festival, it’s looked conferences, churches and then one-to-one peer-to-peer even as well. But that’s what the early days of, of God calling me to be an evangelist looked like.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:06):
Now you just recently finished up a program mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with Nick Hall. You were part of the Pulse 100 where he gathered a hundred people who had a calling for evangelism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. What was that like? And what’d you learn?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (05:18):
That was incredible. You know, that was really incredible to learn from someone who, you know, has really traveled the world and in such an extensive way, like Nick has. And I have so much respect for Nick. I’m fortunate to call him friend, as are you. And you know, Nick’s a Nick’s an incredible man. He’s an incredible leader. He’s a faithful husband and and father to his children, and a great father of Jesus. So I have a immense respect for Nick. Being a part of Nick or being a part of Pulse 100 Rather, was truly a privilege because I think that, you know, I took away so much learning how much my story matters in the context of person to person, evangelism and, and even presentation proclamation, evangelism. People want to relate to a story. They want to see that you’re a real person, that it hasn’t always been rosy and, you know, and wonderful for you in every regard.
(06:14):
And so that was one big takeaway that I learned at Pulse 100. The, the other really big thing when people ask about my experience and time in Pulse 100 that I just always refer to, is, I think it just reaffirmed the importance of relationship. And I think it reaffirmed the importance of being in collaboration with other people who are like-minded as you, and want to see the same gospel of Jesus Christ, go into the world, reach every soul, and by God’s grace, save every soul, which it absolutely has the power to do. And so you know, I was just re-inspired, reinvigorated I think equipped in many ways. And then just the relationships that come with something like that was just so, so incredible. I call many of the peers that I went through Pulse 100 with great friends today, and that’s a real joy and privilege to, to do ministry in partnership and in collaboration with other people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
Now, you’ve developed relationships with several different organizations and great evangelists. What have you learned from some different evangelists that you’ve been able to spend time with?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (07:23):
Yeah, great question. I consider it the, the absolute grace of God to have built relationships with, you know, the Greg Laurie team and guys like Clayton King and the Billy Graham team and Louis Lau team, and obviously Nick and, you know, men like yourself as well. And that’s not to name drop. I mean, that’s just the, the grace of God and just the kindness of him. And I, I, I honestly joke a lot of times with people, and I’ll say that God had to give me the advice from all of those people because he knows that without them, there’s no way that I would be able to ever do it. So very fortunate for their input in my life. You know, one of the big threads that comes up the most when I think about what are the big ticket items that I’ve just learned from all of these great men and leaders, and I think the biggest one is that the personal life and the integrity and the character by which you walk in when no one’s looking is the biggest thing that matters more than anything.
(08:22):
God opposes the proud, but he gives grace to the humble. If I’m not living a life in private that I project in public, then God is not going to favor that. So that I think is one of the biggest things. And a lot of times when people are listening to this podcast, even I think that they will think, yeah, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that. But like, what are the practicals, Nick? And there are many practicals, but I think if we skip past the personal life, and if we skip past building our character and building our integrity and building our on the right focus and in the right way, then everything else is, is meaningless. I can have all the contacts, I can have all the practicals, I can have the biggest ministry budget, but if that house is built on the wrong foundation, you can be assured it’s going to fall.
(09:11):
So that’s the biggest thing that I, I would just say on the front end of things. The other things that I, I think are really relevant as far as practicals are taking the time to develop as a communicator and become dynamic. Learn how to speak with one person, learn how to speak in front of many people, learn how to become a great storyteller. This is something I love about you, Daniel, is that I, I, you know, I was telling you this last night in private too, but I just think that you are one of the master storytellers of our day, and that’s something that I look to your ministry for inspiration in. And so becoming a dynamic communicator is a really, really important thing. Knowing what to share, when to share, having a great knowledge of the scriptures is very, very important. And not only a knowledge of the scriptures, but a heart understanding and allowing God to change you and mold you as you minister and as you pour out.
(10:01):
Many times as evangelists, we’re so enamored by how this is going to change the lives of other people that we rarely ever sit and reflect on how God is working and ministering in us through the work that we get to do for his kingdom and with him in partnership. So those are just a couple of the really big ones that come to mind quickly. The last one that I’ll share is how important it is to leverage the opportunities that are right in front of us for the sake of the gospel. Everyone in this modern day and age where we’re all connected has some ability, has some has some fortitude to actually go forth and share the gospel in some way, whether it’s peer to peer, personal, small group, digital however that looks most natural and comfortable for each and every person. But we need to be taking the opportunities that God is putting in front of us and maximizing those to the fullest extent. That’s something that Billy Graham did, who you and I both look up to a lot. He would take every opportunity that was at his disposal, whether it was radio, whether it was newspapers or magazines or tv, anything like that. He would leverage every opportunity to bring the gospel to the front of humanity. And I think that we would be probably wise to do the same.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:20):
This is your first time preaching in Africa, and last night you had the opportunity to preach at a festival mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. What was that like doing that in that context for the first time?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (11:32):
Yeah, that was such a full circle moment for me in many ways. As a young man sensing this call to evangelism, I’m sure this is similar for you too. God begins giving you these dreams. He begins giving you these visions of what a ministry could look like one day, and, and believing for that and praying for that, and leaning into that and toiling. And, you know, working in partnership with God over all these years and just slowly developing those relationships is just such a, a valuable thing. But to see it come to pass and to, to see God deliver on what he promised, you know, to me as a young man, I think of, you know, 14, 15, 16 years old, just having these visions and dreams of what God may want to do with my life and, and, and seeing that happen in its context was just a really full circle moment for me.
(12:27):
And, and I just sense the kindness of God and his face turned towards me in that moment last night. It was a, it was a very beautiful thing and a real honor and a real privilege to get to share the stage with men like you and and some other friends that we have here with us. And more than anything, it’s, you know, not about me. It’s not about the evangelists. It’s not about any of that. It’s not about you or I, or, or even the program that we’re doing. It’s about the message of Jesus Christ. And so to be able to share his message with a generation and with a city, I just consider it a joy. And and I’m very humbled that God would use someone like me to, to, to do that. I, I don’t deserve it. I don’t earn it. I’m not good enough in any kind of way or any kind of facet, but, but he is, and he’s faithful to his promise, to to, to save people. And so he’s calling people to himself. He’s calling cities to himself, nations to himself, and a world to himself. And I believe that we’re just on the front end of it
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:28):
Now. You are right now laying the foundation for the ministry that God has called you to, and you’re going through a strategic planning process. Just thinking through how you’re going to communicate with our generation mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and what God has called you to do. What do you see in the future for what God has called you to do?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (13:50):
Yes. I do personally, I do not think that larger evangelistic events have completely subsided or gone away. I know that there’s a sector of people who really don’t believe in the larger event anymore. And I just think that’s really unfortunate. ’cause I believe that we have a big God, and I believe that he created a big world, and I believe that he created a big message in the gospel. And I believe that big events are awesome. We even see it in the Book of Acts. I mean, considering the amount of people that would’ve attended in acts at, at this day of Pentecost scene that we really see set. And to see this large crowd just gather together, enamored by this message that’s being shared I see that picture still working and still being leveraged and still and, and God continuing to be faithful to it in the days ahead.
(14:39):
I believe that God honors big vision. I believe that God honors big dreams. I believe that he smiles when we believe that he can do big things. And so I don’t see that going anywhere. And I would be telling you a fib if I told you that I didn’t believe that the big event, that the larger Evangelistic crusade event doesn’t work anymore. I just don’t believe that to be true. I believe they still work. I believe that God still has a unique position in place for them. And so over the next few years, I can’t give you a real 10 year, 20 year strategy because it never looks like what you think it will. But over the next five years, what we want to begin to do as a ministry is really break into the university sector. And we want to partner with on-campus ministries in the universities that are maybe collaborating in some sense, but they’re not really coming together for a large evangelistic outreach mission to reach their school.
(15:36):
I personally would love to see state schools, private schools, and every school in between come together for the sake of the gospel, every on-campus ministry from every sector and denomination of the faith to really to, to, to come together for a night of worship or a series of nights of worship, see the gospel proclaimed, have a great evening, and then call the loss to be saved. And then see them funnel back into these on-campus ministries and the churches that they’re partnered with for follow up and further discipleship and, and obviously us doing our part to stay connected with them, bolster them, uplift them, encourage them in any kind of way that we can, and remain in friendship, remain in partnership, and remain in ministry together in the days ahead. So really into that university sector. In the coming days, I just don’t believe that there is hardly a greater place on earth where we see a young lost generation, so concentrated, so gathered in the same place, and the opportunity is ripe to see a harvest for Christ in universities today. I truly believe that
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:41):
Now you’ve been blessed to grow a significant YouTube following and you even coach people on how to be effective at using YouTube. So what advice would you give to listeners who want to use YouTube to tell people about Jesus?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (17:02):
Great question. First thing I think I would say is that it is hard and that it takes time. Many of the creators I talk to get very discouraged early on because they’re not growing. They’re subscribers all that fast. They’re not growing, they’re video views all that fast. But in reality, it’s just like anything else. If a young baseball player steps onto an M l B field, they’re going to be severely outshined. And the reality is that it takes time to develop and to get good at something. Your skill in communicating the gospel is like very few on earth. I mean, you are a true master at, at, at sharing the gospel in every context. And I highly doubt that you just came out of the gate as a young evangelist with such a skill, with such a variety, with being so dynamic. And certainly God has gifted you, but it takes time to hone that craft.
(18:01):
It takes time to develop and to move and begin a really gaining skill. And YouTube is no exception. It takes time to develop the muscle for YouTube. It takes time to develop the muscle for social media. But as we are faithful to that, as we identify who we want to talk to, and, and the YouTube sector, we call that our target audience. As we develop our channel focus, meaning, you know, are we gonna have a channel around tech cooking vlogging, or are we gonna have evangelistic missional content on our channel? That’s the, if that’s the channel focus, then our target audience obviously needs to be the lost. And so we need to be positioning ourself not from a preaching, not from a, here’s my message. Very rarely does a lost person go on YouTube and type in a message about how to know Jesus Christ.
(18:50):
Most times a lost person is going to look for how to have hope, how to have peace, how to deal with the anxiety that I feel. And Billy Graham was a real master at this. His crusades would be censored around how, how to have hope in the midst of crisis and things that were pertaining to a broad audience. But it was something that everyone was dealing with, and it was a question everyone was asking. And so I think the more that we can center and position ourselves like that, if we are evangelists and, and begin to grow an audience in that way, that people come to us looking for hope. And the hope message that we have is the gospel. It’s everything. It’s the, it’s the central message of how we have hope now and how, how we have hope for eternity. And I believe that growing is social media audience is not just a numbers game.
(19:43):
I believe it’s a community game. For the longest time, it was, how many followers do you have? How many subscribers do you have engaged? Where the real emphasis now is moving towards a community, fostering a group of people, and, and almost in a sense, creating a family, a family dynamic where everyone is exchanging ideas, everyone is in communication with one another. Everyone is rallying around the same idea in harmony, almost like a big volunteer team. In a sense, that’s kind of the new community dynamic of social media. And I personally, I would much rather have a very highly engaged community of 25, 30, 50,000 people than I would have a large subscriber audience of three, four, 5 million people. Because the reality is we’re gonna get so much more done with those 50,000 who are all in, bought in a hundred percent with you than we are the three, 4 million people who it looks very impressive from a numbers standpoint, but you boil it down and you only see about five, 6,000 people engaged. Engagement is the key ticket item today in social media. And so that’s what I would encourage creators to look for, and that’s how I would encourage them to grow their channels.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:58):
If someone wants to connect with you, find out more about what you’re all about, what is a good way for them to follow your ministry?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (21:06):
Yeah, that’s a, that’s a awesome question. I appreciate you even being willing to tee that up. So my personal best way to connect is honestly over Instagram. I’m official Nick h on all socials. And my wife and I, we have a YouTube channel. You can go and find it. Just type in Chelsea and Nick, it’ll pop right up.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:27):
Now, how many followers do you have on YouTube?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (21:30):
We have a million and a half subscribers on YouTube. That’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:33):
Amazing. On YouTube. And, and what does your channel focus on?
Evangelist Nick Hurst (21:37):
Honestly, our channel is not an evangelistic channel. Oddly enough, our channel really focuses on our life and kind of our family dynamic with one another. And the things that we’re learning and the things that God’s teaching us, it’s more of a place for us to take time and, and devote videos to that. More than anything, it just tracks along the way as we grow as a family, as God’s teaching us, as he’s changing us and molding us and some adventures here and there along the way. So that’s the real impetus of our channel, and it’s a real joy to share those things with the world. And I appreciate you even allowing me to be on the podcast today. Yeah. It’s a real honor, real privilege. So I appreciate you and your ministry a lot, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:16):
Well, I believe in your ministry. It’s been a pleasure to get to know you this week, and I believe that God’s hand is on you. And in the years to come, God’s gonna give you a great harvest of souls. Mm. I think God’s raising up a new generation of young people who he’s going to, to use to reach millions around the world. And it’s really exciting what God is doing right now. Like, like it’s amazing that someone could start a YouTube channel, even at the age of 25, and, and have an audience that would number in the millions, like technologically that wasn’t possible 50 years ago, but it’s possible now. And so even for young people who are dedicated to serving God and they, they’re, they’re willing to give their all for Jesus, I think God’s looking for people like that and he’s promoting them very quickly. Amen. And so what past generations took 50 years to do, I think your generation is going to see happen in a 32nd TikTok.
Evangelist Nick Hurst (23:16):
Mm-Hmm. Wow.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:17):
So thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I appreciate
Evangelist Nick Hurst (23:20):
It. Yeah, it was a real privilege. Thank you, Daniel.
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Tom Miyashiro | From Faith 2 Faith
Tom Miyashiro is the founder of From Faith 2 Faith, which ministers on the mission field of New England on the East Coast of the United States. His ministry focuses on youth centered, community-based outreach, and partnership with the local church. Today, you will be inspired as you listen to the story of everything God has done through his ministry.
Learn More: https://www.f2fmi.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, TTom Miyashiro.
Tom Miyashiro (00:11):
You got it
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:12):
From a great ministry on the East coast of the United States called Faith to Faith. That’s it. Thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast. It’s a
Tom Miyashiro (00:21):
Lot of fun to be here in Africa.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:23):
Yeah, we are here together in Kenya, Africa, in the city of Murang’a. We have been here for several days already, and today is the, the third day of the festival. We had a little bit of rain yesterday and so we were a little disappointed with the size of the crowd. But today the sun is out, the sun is shining, and they’ve just started the festival. They just sent us a picture. It looks like there’s already a lot of people there and you’re giving, and as soon as we’re get done with this tonight, we’re gonna go over there and
Tom Miyashiro (00:57):
The gospel and you’re gonna, you’re gonna rip it up tonight, right? Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:59):
You’re the guy. Absolutely Awesome. Amen. Alright, so let’s let’s talk a little bit about Faith to Faith. Sure. Tell me about the ministry. Who are you, what do you guys do?
Tom Miyashiro (01:09):
Faith to Faith is 22 years old. I started it when I was 19 and we like to say we’re spreading the gospel through youth centered, community-based outreach and partnership with the church. So what does that mean? It means for a good chunk of the last 20 years, I didn’t travel that much. I worked in one community as a community evangelist, and I tried to work with the same group of pastors over and over and over again. So it’s only been recently that I’ve come further out from that space. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:46):
Which community have you focused on over these years?
Tom Miyashiro (01:50):
Well I’m from the New England States. Well, I’m from Connecticut, which is one of the six New England states. But in recent years there’s been some good data to suggest that New England is one of the least reached places in our country. And so as an evangelist it just makes sense to just dig my heels in and try and be part of the solution to the sliding decline in Christianity in the Northeast.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:18):
So you’re really on a mission field there. And what attitudes do you run into when you start talking about the gospel?
Tom Miyashiro (02:29):
Well, the Northeast is pretty liberal. I, I would say that Connecticut specifically is fiscally conservative and socially incredibly liberal. So so it is the people, you know, in some ways feel conservative and New Englanders tend to be closed. It’s not always been known as the friendliest of places. And we speak the language of sarcasm as our dialect.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:58):
No, <laugh> are you sure?
Tom Miyashiro (03:01):
So so it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, the average size church in New England is between 50 and 150 people. Now, there’s exceptions to the rules. Major cities like Boston and Greater New York, some, some parts of Connecticut are considered part of Greater New York, which we consider them the exception to the rule. But a lot of pastors in the Northeast are bi-vocational. They have to work two jobs, not unlike Old England. You know, there’s a lot of similarities in the way that you do ministry there. Very, it can be very challenging.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:36):
And so how have you as an evangelist come alongside some of the local pastors and local churches and help to strengthen then and then help them to reach out to their communities?
Tom Miyashiro (03:50):
Wellearly in faith to Faith, I was a missionary to England and I found that if there was any more, anywhere more difficult than living in New England, it would be that Old England. So I worked there and and did ministry there and did some education there and learned about how the UK has adjusted itself to not the Christian Church not really being valued or appreciated or relevant to culture. And actually one of the guys on this mission, Ben Jack, he’s part of that story and the organization he works for kind of saw the way the, the missions community was innovating to make Christianity relevant again to the next generation. And I thought, wow, if we could bring some of these ideas back to the United States, that would be really good for, for us. So I started importing as many of these ideas into the US as I could particularly to do with public schools ministry because in America we have the separation of church and state.
(05:02):
In England, the church and state is one, so they can do a whole lot of stuff in schools. Now granted you can’t proselytize in same as America, but you could actually tell the whole Christian story in school. It’s not a problem. So you could do quite a lot there. When we come back into the US context, you know, we left England to have religious freedom and yet I can’t talk about Jesus in school. It doesn’t make much sense. But we had to find ways to creatively engineer schools programming so we could still be there and still have relationships with students whilst finding a way to get the gospel to them. So it took, instead of doing things in one swift movement, we had to create steps, next steps, lots of next steps to like, create pathways for young people to engage us in school and out of school. This is the bulk of my career doing that. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:53):
Yeah, now sometimes it’s not easy to stay faithful to the calling of an evangelist. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And yesterday you and I were talking about a very tragic situation mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in the early years of your ministry. Sure. Tell me about your wife going to heaven and what that was like going through that and, and how you dealt with that. Yeah. And, and then what God has brought you through and into now.
Tom Miyashiro (06:22):
Yeah. So Amy was from England and we got married young 2001. And I started the ministry very shortly after us coming together. And and I followed her back to England. So that’s kind of the early years when we moved back to the United States, it wasn’t very long after that that she was diagnosed with a pretty rare form of brain cancer and speeding through, ’cause she was sick for four years, speeding through kind of the early trauma of all of that. When we landed back home in Connecticut, the local church heard about our story and, and I got to see the best side of the church for in one in this case, and churches in the county that I lived like within a radius of our house. As they heard about the story, everybody just started stepping up and helping us. And I felt very indebted and very very thankful for all those leaders. And I didn’t cheat on her. I didn’t run out and divorce her. Like I stayed with her till the end. It wasn’t,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:34):
And it was very difficult because
Tom Miyashiro (07:35):
It was very difficult.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:37):
She’s laying there in your house.
Tom Miyashiro (07:39):
Yep. four years of brain cancer, which means 11 brain surgeries, radiation, chemotherapy experimental treatments, sometimes simultaneously. So I was a full-time carer as well as trying to do evangelism in the community. And the community didn’t really know how to help us specifically. So in some ways faith to faith kind of bolstered itself up because people could see they could support me in that and that was helping her. And so that’s kind of when Faith to Faith got rooted and probably would’ve taken me a lifetime to build those relationships in a different, like, just in a natural kind of way. It aged my relationships with church leaders in a, a really productive way. And so especially you know, in that last year of her life we were full on shut-ins and she was paralyzed on one side of her body and I had to pretty much do everything for her.
(08:37):
But in return, after she’d passed away, I really dug my heels in to my community and tried to pay back the debt of love by using my evangelistic skillset to, and applied it within a local church context within a community of churches, you know, not just, and not just the community of churches, the community at large. And what happens when an evangelist has a very short leash? Well, I was a police chaplain, which means I had full mil police dress, a key card to the station access to ride with any officer in the city. I had keys to the public school and a master password to the power school database and could recall any records on any student in the vicinity in the city. I had access to the mayor’s office, I had access to community foundation dollars, I had access to all the local banks that partnered with me.
(09:37):
And really, it’s an issue of just being known and knowing people. And I stuck around long enough and served long enough for all that stuff to really matter. So within the community we saw that wow, if evangelist doesn’t itinerate heavily and really finds a way to partner with the local church it brings a spice to a region that is just not, like, churches don’t typically have that spice. And when the church really partners together, and it’s not just a one time seasonal thing, but a repeat, a repeat event, you know, it’s like this is the way we all do church. It’s a really nice relationship. And you know, in these last five or six years, we started getting calls from other communities asking me if I could do it there as well. And I was like, no, because there’s one of me and I can only be a member of one community, but I’m willing to come and like, see what kind of pieces you have in the community and see if there’s anything transferrable for your area that you can do. And if you commit to doing it, then I’ll walk with you a little bit. But inevitably you fall in love with people. So I have like little homes I stay in, in different regions and I come in and I call churches together and we walk through a process and we talk and we pray. And it’s not the same in every community, but there’s the same components.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:06):
Talk to me about that process. What are some of the components of helping build community in mm-hmm. <Affirmative> a particular community? Yeah. Between the churches and then to get the church to have a heart for evangelism.
Tom Miyashiro (11:22):
I like to talk about it is like the life cycle of evangelism. And, and it, and it is cyclical, just like breathing. And I think that a lot of times either evangelists or people who love evangelism or people who are put off by it catch the cycle and in, and it’s always in rhythm with itself, but where they are in their walk with the Lord may not be in sync with the rhythm of the community and they try and force it. So like, it’s almost like trying to take a double inhale or a double exhale. All, all you do is inhale, you’re gonna suffocate and all you do is exhale. You’re gonna suffocate. So either way it doesn’t work out for you if you only like one thing, but if you figure out the rhythm of the community and where they’re at in the life cycle of evangelism and you pay attention and then jump into where they are in their breathing pattern, you can move them towards mobilization for a season of harvest and then recovery and then repeat the process again and again and again, just like the seasons.
(12:27):
So usually there’s a a period of time where a community is pre mobilization, where like things are disconnected and maybe that’s a result of job changes, like pastors retiring or getting a new job and leaving the area. Or even in government and things like that. Like just being attention to like, it seems to happen more than once. It’s not just one guy doing it. It seems like there’s several key people all transitioning at the same time. That seems like a bad period of time to try and like push people into some kind of evangelistic effort. Like there’s a lot of transitions. You sort of have to reestablish baseline of relationships, call people together, be generous to them, and buy a lot of food and just create an environment where people can just be friends. Yeah. We miss that step sometimes in evangelism and just want to get to the good stuff.
(13:22):
And that can be a long season. Berkshire County, which is Western Mass, I’ve been stewarding a pastor’s network there for I think about seven years. And I have a unique role in that community because I actually am the facilitator, like the founder of the network as the evangelist, which I’m always ready to go, but they’re not ready to go and being patient and allowing them to raise their own temperature for evangelism, it’s a very slow and painful and disciplined process. Seven years and we still haven’t gone for it yet, what’s going on? But but sprinkling in activities that move them closer together, like National Day of Prayer, something on the calendar already that I can give them to give them a little boost. Like, see you can do something together. Okay then now let’s debrief that. Take a break, have some food, relax, no pressure, and then try again.
(14:18):
You know? So but it takes patience. And some communities are further along, like they already have a pastor’s network. They’ve been praying together for a while and you walk into a moving situation where like they’re gonna do something, anything. And you just happen to be the excuse that walked into the room that’s gonna make it relevant for go time. Those are fun places to walk into. Most evangelists roam the earth looking for communities in that phase. And and that’s a lot of fun ’cause you can just roll in with your textbook playbook and give them things to do and they will rock. And then you can take pictures and say, look what we did for the Lord. And then the final phase is sort of like this recovery phase, which sometimes evangelists to leave town too early and they don’t stick around to celebrate and help reset the program.
(15:11):
Thank everybody, thank people, and maybe even reward them and offer them rest. ’cause Like a lot of times even in the church world, even in church volunteerism, it’s like, well, Sundays are coming, so take Monday off, do something. ’cause We gotta do this all over again. And I think that’s why people burn out. They don’t have ample time to recover before you ask the next big ask. So I think being with the community through that celebration and recovery period makes them more willing to say yes as the cycle moves towards mobilization for the next season of harvest.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:53):
Yeah. Now recently you have started doing some things in Poland and now Ukraine. Yeah. Talk to me about that. ’cause That’s very different than, than Oh yeah, Eastern United States. You’re going into Eastern Europe now, you know
Tom Miyashiro (16:08):
We’ve been there actually for a long time, but the result of it is actually still community based. Our young people started growing up. Some of them came to work for the ministry, some of them graduated and went off to Bible college. Some of them started ministries of their own and some of them sort of graduated the faith to faith world and jumped into bigger ministries. And one young man who you’ve met on this trip as well, grew up in the ministry. I mean, he, I’ve known him as far back as maybe 15 years old. And when he got to age 18, he asked to meet me at a Starbucks and I assist one guy, no staff yet. And he comes in with a briefcase, puts it on the table, there’s nothing in it except one piece of paper. And he slides it across the table and says I think there’s many ways I can help you build your ministry <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:06):
And I’m like,
Tom Miyashiro (17:07):
Oh, really? Young man, <laugh>. And he walks me through his strategic plan for how he thinks he can help me build faith to faith. I said, sounds great, let’s do it. And he was my first employee. Wow. but as God stirred his heart and his passion he’d done a church mission trip to Poland and he felt led to go and he asked for some time, then he asked for more time, then he asked for like a year. And I’m like, okay, this is ridiculous. I can’t have an employee gone for a year, but for some reason I’d let it go. And he went and and then it just like turned into this vibrant community-based thing over there. And it wasn’t me doing it, it was him and he built his own network and us working together. Like he figured out it’s not like he figured out his own way completely. Like he did it the faith to faith way, but he did it through his own personality and his own. And he’s not an evangelist. That’s what’s interesting about him. He’s more of a missions director, but he still like, rallied the community, did evangelism. And I was like, well that’s, well, I guess that’s what multiplication looks like. And he’s been doing that for 12 years now, so Wow. Amazing. Amazing to watch him develop. And now here, even on this trip, we have seven
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:24):
So what’s his name? It’s Kyle.
Tom Miyashiro (18:26):
Kyle Uba. Yeah. And he’s on this trip, but seven other young leaders on this trip accompany me here in Kenya. And the concept is that we do it all over again, again and we expose these young bucks to the world of evangelism, get them hungry, and then find a way to release them into the stratosphere.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:48):
That’s
Tom Miyashiro (18:48):
Awesome. So it’s a fun time and you get, you’ve gotten to be part of this. You got to speak into the life of David and Alan and Nick Hurst and, and others that have come on the street.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:58):
Yeah. You brought some real quality young guys that I really see God’s hand on them. I really love talking about evangelism coaching. And you’ve been doing that recently, especially with the ministry of Nick Hall. Yep. pulse, they had a Pulse 100, which was a hundred young people that they gathered together who have a heart for evangelism. That’s right. And Tim ett from Multnomah University who I took an evangelism class with, he was helping to to shape these young evangelists. And then you were one of the coaches for the Pulse 100. Yep. And, and so talk to me about that and what your heart is for coaching young evangelists and helping them to, to launch out into the ministry. Yeah.
Tom Miyashiro (19:47):
Closely related to what we’re doing here in Ken Kenya, but post 100 is two years old, and actually it’s a hundred kids a year. So we just finished our second year, our second cohort we’re calling it. And when they were starting it up, there was several, several evangelists that Nick pulled closer who worked with youth. We all pushed together to stock that first class and nobody really knew where we were going or how we were gonna do it. But we got that first group together and Dr. Tim was called in to write the curriculum for the masterclass that we would teach the kids. And Dr. Tim was all of our coach coaches Right. Within this Palau Global network world for so many years. Yeah. So when Jose Ziss got pulled in and I got pulled in Tim Enni, who used to be the Africa director Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:39):
Love
Tom Miyashiro (20:40):
Brother Tim Pullman, Reed Saunders gets pulled in. Wow. And, and you got
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:44):
Everyone but me, Brad
Tom Miyashiro (20:45):
Butcher,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:46):
But I was talking to Nick in Amsterdam Yeah. And we were talking about some possibilities.
Tom Miyashiro (20:51):
Yeah, definitely. We’d love to have you. So I mean, the, the thing is there isn’t isn’t that many of us in the world doing it full time Yeah. To, to lean on. So I think as we grow and as we get better at doing what we’re doing and as we get better as coaches, like the opportunities for evangelists to partner in and pour into the next generation is definitely there. But one of the cool things about Pulse 100 is you sort of, you have to go through this application process. You have to make a video preaching the gospel, and then you send it in. And if you make it in, you’re invited to this showcase. And when you show up, you’re given a time to show up. And Dr. Rob net and I, and about seven or eight other coaches are broken up into three rooms with no windows, very small room.
(21:39):
There’s young people come in one after another, like cattle, they have to preach to us and we grade their preaching. Wow. And it’s a very terrifying experience for them. And then we go through all the different young people and we pick the top three and they get to showcase for the whole program and preach to the whole room with the credit and the celebrity guest judging panel, just like American Idol. And Alan Stokes was the one that I picked and he preached to the, to the celebrity panel and to the whole room. Wow. Last year’s cohort. So that’s how closely connected all these things are. Nick Hurst was also in the Pulse 100, but, but anyways, what’s really exciting about it is I almost feel like Nick, you know, the world of evangelism is kind of resetting. Billy Graham’s passed away. Luis Pals passed away and others, and, and you know, so that commanding general who calls everyone together is sort of a little bit absent in the world of evangelism. So Nick pieced together some of those middle-aged guys who were coming up together. The younger guys who are now middle-aged guys got our coach back involved and he’s just taken this big sifter and we’re mining for gold. We don’t know what we’re gonna find. And on that finding incredible talent. And now we find it, we’re like, okay, now how do we disciple them and move them towards falling in love with evangelism like you and I have, and make that the goal of their life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:05):
I mean, I think this program is so valuable what Pulse 100 is doing, because I think you can accelerate a ministry by at least a decade by getting them around other evangelists who be, because someone who has a calling, they could figure out how to do it all on their own. But, you know, they’d make so many mistakes, it’d be such a challenge. Yeah. But, but just being around other evangelists and someone who’s gone a little bit further, we can accelerate their ministries by at least 10 years, maybe 20 years, where they can launch out and do something big for God and they don’t have to wait and they don’t have to make the mistakes the last generation made. That’s
Tom Miyashiro (23:46):
Right. So this final piece of it, which brings it full circle right back here to Africa, is my new role in global network of evangelists, which is to be a catalyst for emerging evangelists, which is sort of a broad title, but it gives me the flexibility to come in and out of Palau, in and outta your ministry, in and out of Nick Hall’s ministry and like really identify and affirm and equip and train and, you know, as they kind of move into this world, that’s the mission of g and e actually. So, but once they’ve been identified to try and begin to assimilate them into our global network and give them opportunities that are far beyond their time, like preaching here at the festival and I in moringa and and exposing them to career evangelists. Guys like you pairing them up early so that we can accelerate. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:40):
Yeah, yesterday on the podcast I interviewed Nick Hurst. Yeah, that’s right. Who he was one of the pulps 100. He’s here in Africa. He had his first right opportunity to preach in Africa the other night’s. Right. That’s right. And did such a phenomenal job. Mm-Hmm. Did a great job. And he has such a heart for evangelism. God’s gonna use him in such a great way.
Tom Miyashiro (25:01):
It is. And it’s so cool to you know, I know that the plow team did so much to help me when I was starting. And so I feel like Desmond Henry, the director of g and e, has given me an opportunity to sort of give that experience back to the next guys. And it’s just a joy to be able to do that because I know how valuable all the guys who were ahead of me were when I was getting started. Yeah. You know,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:30):
Well, as one of the cabinet members for the global network of evangelists, I say thank you. Awesome. And I’m super excited to see what God will develop in the next few years. Amazing. I’m excited just to be a part of it. Yeah, definitely. So sometimes people who are listening, they wanna get involved with the ministry that we’re interviewing and so if someone has a heart for ministry in the northeast Yeah. Maybe they wanna support your ministry and maybe they wanna be a part of what you’re doing. Sure. What’s your website? Sure. How can they find out more about you?
Tom Miyashiro (26:04):
It’s https://www.f2fmi.org/
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:17):
Well Brother Tom, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. Awesome. I really appreciate it. Yeah,
Tom Miyashiro (26:23):
It’s awesome.
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The Call of the Evangelist
Recently I was invited to speak at the EVERYONE conference in Amsterdam23. 5,000 pastors, missionaries, and evangelists gathered together from around the world for this historic conference on evangelism. In my workshop I taught on The Call of the Evangelist. If you are called by God to be an evangelist, you need to listen to this message as I look at the only person in the whole Bible is called an “evangelist.”
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:03):
I am so excited to be here because I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. How many of you love telling people about Jesus? You are in the right place. So my name is Daniel King. I’m a missionary evangelist. I go all over the world telling people about Jesus. When I was 15 years old, I was reading a success book that said, if you want to be successful, you need to write down your goals. And one of the goals they say would be good for young people is to try to become a millionaire by the age of 30. How many of you would like to be millionaires by the age of 30? What about by the age of 60 for some of you? Well, I realize that because of my upbringing as a missionary in Mexico, that money was not what was important to me. What was important was souls.
(00:43):
And so at the age of 15, I wrote down, I Daniel King, want to lead 1 million people to Jesus Before I turned 30 years of age, instead of trying to become a millionaire, I wanted to lead a million heirs into the kingdom of God to become a soul millionaire. And so God started opening up doors in different nations around the world. And I’m excited to tell you that before I was 30 years of age, we led over 1 million people to Jesus. Isn’t that exciting? Praise God. And so since then we’ve led another million. And, and I was praying, said, God, what comes next? I felt like God said, go for a million souls every single year. And so in the natural, that’s impossible. But with God, all things are possible. And so I believe that God is raising up many of you to become so millionaires.
(01:31):
How many of you would like to be so millionaires to lead over a million people to Jesus in your lifetime? I believe that God will bring it to pass in your life. If God can do it in my life, he can do it in your life. And I see in this room many people that are called by God to be great of evangelists. All right, so let’s talk this morning or this afternoon about the call of the evangelist. What is an evangelist? How many of you feel you’re called to be an evangelist? Raise your hand. All right, wonderful. Well, you’re in the right place now. The word evangelist is mentioned three times in scripture. Paul mentions the call of the evangelist in Ephesians, chapter four, when he mentions the, the fivefold ministry gifts, the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and the teachers, and each of these gifts are given in order to equip the saints for ministry.
(02:30):
And then of course, Paul writes to Timothy, who was actually serving as a pastor in Ephesus at the time, and he tells him in second Timothy four verse five, to do the work of an evangelist. Everyone will look at the prison next to you and say, do the work of an evangelist, Evangel. And some people think that being an evangelist is just standing up on a stage and, and preaching. But that’s only one small piece of it. It’s actually a lot of hard work being an evangelist. And so all of us are called to do the work of an evangelist. And then in Acts 21 it says, leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the seven. He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied. So Acts 21 verses eight and nine, and it specifically calls Philip in evangelist.
(03:34):
He’s the only one in the entire New Testament who is specifically called an evangelist. And so I believe that God has given us a picture of what an evangelist is called to do in the life of Philip the evangelist. Now, in the beginning of his life, he was not an evangelist. In Acts 21, he is called an evangelist. But his story actually begins over in Acts chapter six. And so this is going to be an interactive session. So if you have your Bible open up your Bible. I need, I need y’all to get out your Bibles. We’re gonna be talking about the word of God. Look at Acts chapter six,
(04:29):
Verse one. It says, in those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews, among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. So the 12 gathered all the disciples together and said, it would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the Word of God in order to wait on tables. Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word, this proposal, please the whole group. And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit and also Philip. So in the beginning of his ministry, Philip was not a great evangelist. He was simply a person who had a heart to serve.
(05:27):
And I believe that every great ministry begins with having a heart to serve. They needed someone to wait on the tables. And Philip raised his hand. He was full of the Holy Spirit. He was full of power. He raised his hand. He said, pick me. Pick me. He says, I’m willing to serve. And so if you want to do great things for God, the first step is to find a place to serve. And so if you feel called to be an evangelist, find something to do in your local church. Do something, help clean toilets, serve tables. Go to your pastor and say, what can we do to reach out to the community, find a place to serve. And as you begin to serve the Lord, God will open up the doors for you to reach thousands of people for his kingdom. Amen. Can you say amen?
(06:21):
Amen. And so that’s what God has done in my ministry. I’ve been preaching to big crowds of people all over the world. But my ministry started when I was 10 years old. My parents became missionaries to the country of Mexico. And one day my dad said, we’re gonna do a drama about the life of Jesus. He says, Daniel, I want you to play the part of Jesus. And I thought that was a good idea because Jesus was perfect, and I was almost perfect. And so my sister Esther, she dragged her leg like this, and she pretended to be crippled, and Jesus would touch her on the forehead, and, and suddenly she could dance. And then my other sister, melody, she’d come up and she’d pretend to be blind, and Jesus would spit on the ground, make some mud, but before he could touch her, she was already healed.
(07:06):
And then my father said, now we’re going to crucify Jesus. And suddenly, I didn’t want to be Jesus any longer, but my younger brother, Steven, he loved this drama because as the older brother, I’d always beat up on Steven. But in this drama, he was the Roman soldier, and he got to beat up on Jesus. And so he’d bring this big, long leather whip and he’d begin to whip me with it. And I gotta be honest with you, I think he over acted a little bit. And one day he went to my dad, he says, this drama is not realistic enough. We need some blood. And my dad thought that was a good idea. So Steven brought a big bottle of ketchup, and he put the ketchup all over the whip. And when he whipped me with it, it looked just like the movie, the passion of the Christ.
(07:50):
There was blood all over my back. And then he crucified me to the cross. And I remember hanging on the cross with all the ketchup on my back. And every fly in Mexico was attracted to the ketchup on my back. And I’d always tell my dad, dad, it’s very difficult to hang on the cross. Could you please preach quickly? But my father did not know how to preach quickly. And so he’d start in the first book of the Bible, genesis, and he’d preach all the way to the last book of the Bible appendix. He’d preach the entire thing, and I’d be hanging there on the cross, we’d catch up on my back, flies crawling up and down my back, and I’d begin to pray. I’d say, God, forgive my father for he knows not what he does. And then I would die. And one time there was a little kid, he wanted to see if Jesus was really dead or not.
(08:38):
So he came up and started tickling the bottom of my feet. I’m telling you, I suffered for the sake of the cross, but Jesus said, take up your cross and follow me. And so the amazing thing is, is that the same messages we used to preach to 30 children in Mexico, now, God is allowing us to preach to 30, 40, 50,000 people at a time. Why? Because of this principle. If you’re faithful with the small things, God says, I will place you in charge of many things. And so what’s the secret to start starting? Oh, great ministry. You gotta buy a bottle of ketchup. That’s the secret. All right, so Philip starts out with a heart to serve God. And then the great chapter about the life of Philip the evangelist is Acts chapter eight. And so look at Acts chapter eight with me, verse four.
(09:33):
It says, those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went, Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ there. When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. With shrieks, evil spirits came outta many and many paralytics and cripples were healed. So there was great joy in the city. All right, so this, this workshop is going to be interactive. I want you to look at those verses there, and these verses inform us on some of what an evangelist might do. And so just begin to talk to me, what do you see in those verses? What what do you think an evangelist should do? What what characteristics do we see for evangelism in these verses? Brother Bimba, he must go first. He must go. Everyone say the evangelists must go. Yeah. Yeah. It says Philip went to a city in Samaria. Now, Samaria was not Jerusalem. Jerusalem was his own people, but he goes to another people. So he goes, yeah, what else do you see there?
(10:49):
Preaching preached Christ. He preached. So the evangelist must preach. What was his message? Christ, Christ, Christ, Christ. It says he preached Christ. Now, this is how you distinguish a true evangelist. The evangelist will always preach about Jesus Christ. Now, in America, I don’t know if it’s true here in Europe, but in in America, you know, there’s, there’s people that call themselves evangelists, and they, they travel from church to church, but I don’t think many of them are. So, some of them are not really true evangelists because, you know, they go and they talk about marriage. They do a seminar and how to be a success in business. But if you want to identify a true evangelist, amen. His message will be about Jesus Christ. He can star anywhere in scripture, but he’ll get to Jesus just as quickly as he can. And so that’s how you identify a true evangelist.
(11:40):
Are they preaching about Christ? All right, what else do you see here? They cast out demons. They cast out demons. So yeah, we’ve seen that in many of our crusades, that there’s demon manifestations. And so with the authority in the name of Jesus, we cast out the demons. What else? What else? What else do you see? Signs, signs, signs, wonders, miracles. And so this is according to Acts eight, this is one of the distinguishing characteristics of Philip the evangelist. He did miracles. Yeah. What else do you see? Great joy. There’s great joy in the city. And we see that great joy comes when the evangelist preaches the good news, because peoples get saved. Their lives are completely cha changed. What else do you see captured the attention? They captured the attention of the people. The people listened. Yeah. What else do you see? He went where others didn’t wanna go. He went where others didn’t want to go. Amen. Yeah. What else? How, how many people does he minister to here in Samaria? Is it just a few multitude? It says a multitude. And so these are two of the distinguishing characteristics of the evangelists. He, he ministers to multitudes, and we see miracles cast out demons. There’s great joy in the city. He proclaims the Christ.
(13:11):
Yeah, we can learn a lot from this passage, and that’s what we want to see God do in our day-today. We want to cast out demons. We want to see God do miracles. We want to hear that Christ is being preached. We want to see multitudes. Can you say amen? Amen. All right. So let’s continue on. It says now for some time, there was a man named Simon who had practiced sorcery, and he was amazed at what was happening. He went from being amazing to being amazed. And then look at verse 13. It says, Simon himself believed and was baptized, and he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw. And then the next verse, it says, when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. And when they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon them.
(14:13):
They had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. So we see here that a great revival is happening in Samaria. People are being baptized, miracles are happening. But then he sends word to the church in Jerusalem, and Peter and John, the apostles come and they come to work with Philip in this great revival that’s happening. And so the number one question that I receive as an evangelist, if any of you are evangelists, you probably have heard this question before. It’s what do you do for follow up? Have any of you ever heard that question? Anyone ever ask you that? What do you do for follow up? And they say, maybe they never, ever led a single person to Jesus in their whole life, but they stand with their arms. Folds are, well, what do you do about follow up? I always like to, I want to say like DL Moody said, well, what do you do about salvation? What do you do about leading people to Jesus?
(15:24):
Yeah. What do you do about follow up? Well, here, I think we have a biblical model for follow up. The evangelist does not minister alone. He ministers with other ministry gifts. And so the evangelist is especially anointed by God to break into new territory, to be a pioneer, to go where the gospel has not been preached to be, to preach before, to be entrepreneurial, to look for opportunities. And so that’s a unique gifting of the evangelist. But the evangelist is not called to minister alone. Along with the evangelist comes all the other ministry gifts. And so we need the apostles, we need the prophets, we need the pastors, we need the teachers, we need administration, we need helps ministry all these different gifts. We bring them along with us. And I think that’s the secret to follow up, is the evangelist is not called to do it alone.
(16:16):
You always work closely with the local church. We love the local church. We work with the local church. We want to partner with the local church. And, and so along with the evangelists, we bring all the other ministry gifts. And I think that’s the answer to follow up. The evangelist is cannot do all the follow up on, on his own. If someone says, what do you do about follow up? I say, come, brother, you come and help teach, come and help us follow up and disciple the new believers. Amen. Amen. All right. So they’re having a very successful ministry there in Samaria. And then this guy Simon, he comes, he asks if he can buy the gift of the Holy Spirit. And, and unfortunately in the body of Christ, there’s been a problem with people selling gifts of the holy experience.
(17:06):
But in fact, in English, we have a word called simony. It means to, to buy the gift of of God. And it actually is named after this man, Simon. But it, and and unfortunately there’s some people in the body of Christ that if you asked to buy the gift of the Holy Spirit, they might offer to sell it to you for a thousand Euro. You know? But you see, Peter, he rebukes the spirit. And so the, the evangelist is never called to be driven by money. We’re driven by souls. Amen. And so we’re not after money. We’re not after a service. We’re not after our ego or just having big crowds. We’re gifted by God to care about people and to go after souls. And so that’s what we’re called to do. Amen. Amen. And then in the midst of this extremely successful, amazing revival happening in Samaria, God has another assignment for Philip the evangelist.
(18:09):
Look at verse 26. It says, now, an angel of the Lord said to Philip, go south to the road, the desert road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza. And so you can imagine Philip getting a little bit upset with God. Say, God, here I am in Samaria. We have a very successful revival happening. He says, why do you want me to go down to the desert road? There’s no one on the desert road. The desert road is hot. Why should I go down to the desert road? Here I am in Samaria. We’re getting very beautiful pictures here in Samaria for my newsletter. Why do you want me to go down to the desert road? But he’s an obedient evangelist. So he goes, and look at what happens. It says, so he started out in, on his way, he met in Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians.
(19:10):
This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship. And on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah, the prophet. The spirit told Philip, go to that chariot and stay near it. Then Philip ran up to the chariot, heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet, do you understand what you’re reading? Philip asked, how can I, he said, unless someone explains it to me. So he invited Philip to come up and to sit with him. So this Ethiopian eunuch had come to Jerusalem to worship Yahweh, the God of Israel. The Ethiopians had a knowledge of Yahweh going all the way back to the Queen of Shiba who had visited King Solomon. And so King Solomon met the queen of Shiba. She took the knowledge of Yahweh back. So this Ethiopian unit, he went to Jerusalem. He wanted to worship God. But when he arrived at the temple, there was a big problem. And it was found in the law of Moses. Over in Deuteronomy chapter 23, verse one, let me read this scripture to you. Look at Deuteronomy chapter 23,
(20:29):
Verse one. This is the law of Moses. It says, no one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the Lord. And no one born of a foreign marriage, nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord, even down to the 10th generation. And so in Deuteronomy, it said, if you’re emasculated or if you’re a foreigner, you’re not allowed to enter the temple of God. And so this Ethiopian unit, you know what a eunuch is? A eunuch is a man who’s been cut off. Do I need to explain? He’s been cut off. And so he’s maimed. He’s imperfect, and he comes to the temple to worship. And he’s not allowed to come into the temple because he is a foreigner, because he’s imperfect. But yet he has a hunger to know God. And so he buys a scroll, which back then would’ve cost a a year’s wages.
(21:42):
And so that’s, how much would a year’s wages for a man be today? You know, imagine spending 60, 70,000 Euro to buy a copy of Isaiah, and he’s hungry, but he, he’s reading it. He doesn’t understand it. So God sends the evangelist to explain it to him. And so he’s looking at it and says, how can I understand unless someone explains it to me? And Philip, the evangelist is there because God sent him, said, let me explain it to you. And so look at this, it says verse 35, Philip beginning with that very passage of scripture, told him the good news about Jesus. What is the evangelist message? Good news about Jesus, good news about Jesus to Samaria, he preached Christ to the Ethiopian. He shares good news about Jesus. That’s the message of the evangelist. And so the passage he reads from Isaiah is Isaiah chapter 53, the beautiful passage that talks about what Jesus accomplished on the cross about how our sins were placed on Jesus.
(22:51):
And because of him, we can be set free from sin. And so it says He was led like a sheep to the slaughter and as a lamb before the shear is silent. So he did not open his mouth in his humiliation. He was deprived of justice, who can speak of his descendants, for his life was taken from him. So Philip begins in Isaiah 53, but I don’t think he ends there. I think he spent some time with his Ethiopian, and he continued with him until he came to Isaiah chapter 56. So when the writer of the book of Acts wrote this, you know, they would have large portions of scripture memorized. So, so people reading this would’ve, they would’ve instantly, they didn’t have chapter divisions. They put the first couple of verses to remind people of the passage. But it’s, you know, it’s a longer passage that the writer of Acts wants to bring to mind. And so in Isaiah 56, there’s a beautiful passage that talks about what will happen after the Messiah comes, and how there will be a change in the kingdom of God. And so look at Isaiah chapter 56. This, this is, this is amazing. This is so exciting. Every time I read this, I get excited.
(24:22):
Listen to this, this, this is a prophecy. So you remember, Deuteronomy has the law. It says, no one who’s emasculated, no one who’s a foreigner may enter into the kingdom of God or enter into the temple. But here in Isaiah 56, listen to this prophecy about what will happen after the Messiah comes verse three. It says, let no foreigner who has bound himself to the Lord say the Lord shall surely exclude me from his people. And so he’s talking to a foreigner, he’s talking to this Ethiopian. And then it says, and let not any eunuch complain, I am only a dry tree. So he is talking to a foreigner, and he is talking to a eunuch. For this is what the Lord says to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant, to them, I will give within my temple in its walls a memorial, in a name better than sons and daughters. I will give them an everlasting name, and they will not be cut off
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Glory. Amen. Glory
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:40):
And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord, to serve him, to love the name of the Lord, and to worship him and who keep the Sabbath, who will fasten my covenant. These I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar, for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations. And so imagine the Ethiopian looking at this passage in Isaiah 56, and he had just gone to Jerusalem. They kept him out of the temple. Archeo, archeologists actually have the stone that was at the gate of the temple that said, any foreigner that goes past this point will be killed. They found that in Jerusalem, that stone. So he came there and he is not allowed to enter into worship Yahweh, but Philip is telling him, because of Jesus, everything has changed. Jesus changes everything. And where there used to be lines of separation, they say, now we have a circle of inclusion. And you are included. There is a place for you. Even if you are imperfect, even if you have made mistakes in your life, even if you are a foreigner, even if there’s something different about you, there is a place for you in the house of God. The house of God has room for every person, every nation, every people. There is a room for you because Jesus changes everything. Amen. Amen.
(27:28):
Hallelujah. Amen. Isn’t that good? Powerful. Jesus changes everything. And so look at this, as they traveled around along the road, they came to some water. And then eunuch said, look, here is water. Why shouldn’t I be baptized? Or is there anything stopping me from being baptized? And Phillips says, no, there’s nothing that prevents you from having a relationship with God. Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. He broke the wall of separation. And now there is a place for every single one of us to come and to have a relationship with God. And so the Ethiopian says, stop the chariot. And they get down out of the chariot, and they go into the water.
(28:30):
The Ethiopian is baptized. And then it says, when they came up out of the water, the spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away. And the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. Now, someone today would say to Philip, well, what did you do to follow up on the Ethiopian? Well, the Holy Spirit followed up on the oath, Ethiopian. And it’s a miracle what God did in the life of this Ethiopian. And it says, Philip, however, appeared at as ptosis and traveled about preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea. And it’s in Caesarea that we find him. And he’s there in Acts 21 with his four virgin daughters who all prophesy. And so Caesarea was a city built by Herod the Great and given as a gift to Caesar, the emperor of Rome. And so he built it.
(29:38):
And it was very controversial cuz they included temples to foreign gods, even though he was a Jewish king, they allowed temples to be built. And so it was where all the ships came from, the Roman Empire. And when sailors come off the boats, what did they do? They, they behaved like drunken sailors. But in the midst of this sinful, wicked city that has foreign temples and, and sin on every corner, I don’t know, maybe is a little bit like Amsterdam, I don’t know. But in this place, God sent Philip the evangelist, and he’s there and he’s ministering, he’s evangelizing, telling people about Jesus. And then he has four virgin daughters who all prophesy in the body of Christ. Recently there’s been a controversy about whether women can speak in church. Well, it’s hard for them to speak if it’s hard for them to prophesy if they keep their mouth closed, because I believe God’s raising up women evangelists.
(30:43):
In fact, I think some of the greatest harvest will see will come from women evangelists. Can you say amen? Amen. Amen. Yeah. And so these four virgin father, they ministered right alongside their father. And in the midst of this sinful city, they kept themselves pure and holy. And it would be so tragic to, to lead thousands of people to Jesus, but for your own son or daughter to go to hell. And so this is part of the calling of an evangelist. You go, you travel, you minister in different places, but I believe also we’re called to be ministered together as a family. Today I have my son Caleb here, everyone say hi to Caleb. He’s helping me run the, the program here. I also have my daughter Katie Grace back here. Everyone say hi to Katie Grace. Now this is my beautiful wife, Jessica. Jessica has been a missionary for, for many years. We actually met in Goma Congo, right on the border of Rwanda and Congo. And at that time she was a crusade director. She was helping to set up crusades in, in Africa. And so I was a crusade evangelist. She was a crusade director. When I saw her, I said, wow, this is a match made in heaven, <laugh>.
(31:56):
And when she saw me, she was checking me out. And after 10 seconds, she says, no, I’m not interested. <Laugh>, she didn’t like my haircut. But a year later I went to preach her church in Canada and I had a new haircut. And then we started to date, date <laugh>. And, and I was anointed that day. And so <laugh> now we’ve been married for 15 years, but you know, God doesn’t just call individuals. He calls families. Amen. And so to be part of the family was to be in my life growing up, was to be part of the ministry. And so we’re called to reach the masses, but we’re also called to, to raise up godly children. Amen. Amen. And so let’s finish with some prayer. Could you all stand up to your feet, lift up your hands to heaven, and let’s begin to pray. I believe that in this room we have many who are called to be evangelists. And I believe that today God is going to strengthen that call in your life.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:11):
And I believe that God is going to give new creative ideas for evangelism, new ways to reach people. And today, my prayer is, is that the same anointing that’s on my life for evangelism will come upon your life. Lord, I pray for an impartation right now upon every person here be filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes, Lord, I pray that all the, the signs of an evangelist would be present. Amen. For every evangelist who is here, I pray that they would preach Christ, give them a passion for preaching about Jesus. Lord, I pray for miracles to happen in their ministries. Come on, lift up your hands to heaven. Lord, I pray that their hands would be healing hands, that every person they touch would feel the touch of Jesus. Lord, I pray that they would be able to cast out demons that through the authority of the name of Jesus, amen, that they would be able to take authority over every demonic power. Lord, I pray that wherever they go, that great joy would follow them. Lord, I pray that none of these evangelists here would ever be driven by love of money, but they would be driven by a love for souls and for going after people, for bringing people to Jesus.
(34:49):
Oh, hallelujah. Father God, pour out your spirit upon this place. Oh, hallelujah. Lord. We call for mighty evangelists to be raised up out of this room.
(35:12):
To go to the nations with boldness, even closed nations where it’s hard to preach the gospel. Lord, I pray that you give us the right strategies to go to the hard places, to be pioneer. Evangelists, just like Philip went to Samaria, cross-cultural ministry, cross language groups. Lord, I pray that you would enable us to reach even the one that we would be able to preach to the masses, but that we would also be able to preach to the individual who needs Jesus. I pray that we never take our eyes off of each individual. Lord, we pray for the the every one vision. That’s the theme of this conference that you’ve given to Dr. Billy Wilson to reach every person on earth with the gospel of Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit in the next 10 years before 2033, the 2000 year anniversary of the day of Pentecost in the natural. It’s impossible. But God, we know that through you all things are possible. And Lord, I pray that we would be able to reach everyone, everyone throughout the earth, that every person would have a chance to hear the gospel.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Hallelujah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:54):
Hallelujah.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Hallelujah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:57):
Oh, hallelujah.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Hallelujah. Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (37:01):
Come on. Give a great big round of applause to Jesus. Can you feel the presence of God here?
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Jesus,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (37:13):
You are God’s best.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (37:17):
God chose could have chosen anyone but he chose you. Yes, you are God’s best. Amen. And God has amazing things in store for you. I encourage you to go after souls. Go after people. I pray that your heart would beat with God’s heartbeat. For souls. For souls. For souls. For souls. In Jesus’ name, amen.
Evangelism Podcast Host (37:47):
Daniel King is on a mission to save 1 million souls a year, but he can’t do it alone. Would you consider sowing a financial seed today to give? Please visit www.kingministries.com.
Omar Cabrera | Evangelist to Argentina
Omar Cabrera was one of the greatest evangelists in the history of Argentina. Today I talk with his son Omar Cabrera, Jr. about what made his ministry so successful. As we go back in history, you will be inspired as you hear about the miracles God has done in the nation of Argentina!
Learn More about Omar Cabrera: https://www.visiondefuturo.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:03):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. We’re talking about evangelism, and today I have a very special guest with me, Pastor Omar Cabrera from Argentina. Thank you for joining me today.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (00:15):
My pleasure to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:17):
It is so wonderful to hear about what God has done in Argentina, and not many people have heard this story, but your father was a very significant evangelist and figure in the history of what God has done in Argentina. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, could you tell us some about him?
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (00:35):
Well he, he got saved because of a miracle that my uncle had. He was going to die at age 18. He was operated on, had a tumor in under his skull, you know, the middle of the skull because of boxing. And school teacher said, you should come to our gym. They have meetings there, they pray for, for the sake. They were all Catholics. And that night they went, they saw a miracle of a guy that was had leprosy, that God had healed. And God healed my uncle. They all followed the Lord. And at age 17, he was already preaching to the Indians in the north of a country and playing his accordion. He, he learned to play the accordion, just to gather the crowds and, and then preach to them. When he was very young at eight, he was, would spend days fasting and praying, getting ready for the mission field.
(01:37):
He would even sleep outside, think saying, I don’t know where God, the Lord’s gonna send me, but I got used to the atmosphere, you know, and sleep outside to get ready for what God’s gonna do in my life. He got married, came to the United States, studied in, in a seminary, home seminary in, in Georgia. After that, he was sent as a missionary to Argentina, and that was his first experience with the supernatural. He went into a chapel that was an Anglican chapel that was not being used, took his mattress and prayed and fasted for 40 days before the crusade, and the crusade started, and it never stopped. I mean, 18 months long. And he still was preaching night after night while they were already building the, the building, the champ, the temple
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:32):
And still going today, <laugh>.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (02:34):
Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What year was that? That the,
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (02:37):
The, the first cru the previous time, the first crusade was in Concordia enter Rios, Argentina. And that was in 65. And Wow. He stayed as a missionary till 64 there, came back for a furlough year in 71.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:54):
Yeah.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (02:55):
And after that six months of just waiting, you know, he said, no, I, I, I, I can’t live like this. I gotta go do something. So he started working for Morris Salo Oh, wow. In San Diego. Organized his Spanish department there organized the crusade in Puerto Rico, Miami, and others. And after that,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:19):
So he, he was helping organize for Morris Cillo.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (03:22):
Yeah. He was Wow. His advanced crusade manager, dance man. Yeah. for his Hispanic crusades. And two years later he said, you know, I have to go back. He would cry at night in San Diego, in the apartment we had, I was in first grade, by the way, by then, you know, in San Diego. Yeah. And would cry all night. And one of the nights the Lord said, I’m going to give you a special love for my lost sheep of the Catholic church. An audible voice told him, Futuro, which is the name of the ministry, he started in 72. He went back to Argentina with an offering from Morris that was the first seed, and had his first crusade. We have that in the black, a black and white video Wow. Archives in BC on the Futuro YouTube channel. There’s mm-hmm. <Affirmative> you could, you could find that there. And we had about 45,000 people in that crusade that we did in, in, in Santa Fe.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:31):
What year was
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (04:32):
The event? That was like 73, 74. Okay. First had a crusade in Ana with one of our Morris’s associates out Fido. And that’s when persecution broke out. The police would come with tear gases the horse police would come and disperse the crowds. And the mayor even wanted to charge a religious tax because so many people would come to the city. There’s another, an only entrance from all the states to Rios by tunnel under the river. And they had to put all the staff on the second Saturday because so many people would come to my dad’s event. And it, it was called a touristic attraction. So the new mayor said, no, you’re gonna pay me a, a religious tax. And he said, well, the day you can bite your coat elbow, I’ll do it. <Laugh>. And that broke persecution. And the police came and we ended up in front of the mayor’s palace.
(05:40):
And that’s where he preached, you know, he took the 50 buses that had come from all over and preached there. And when the police arrived, he said, okay, next month we’ll meet in another state, another town 200 kilometers away. And because of the persecution it mushroomed like the primitive church, you know, all over if we, he would rent sports arenas because of all the healings, a lot of clinics lost their clients. The doctors would influence the police. And, you know, they would close the meetings or they would go to the club and say, we’re not gonna treat your, your players if you have Cabrera. And they would say, you know, even though we had contracts, they would say, you know, you can no longer well have the event here. Yeah. So all of that kept allowing the, the word of God to continue Na you know, state by state, city by city.
(06:50):
After 28 years of ministry, he, he had 145 cities where he had church. Wow. Where he had been established, you know, and a lot of times the meetings would be in an arena, like in Kuman, we had 12,000 people every time he went every 15 days. And it was Tuesdays and Wednesdays. And in another boxing arena, it was Thursdays and Fridays and in different cities at the same time. Right. Yeah. And there, you know, he had two groups of people that would go ahead with bus, you know sound system and the literature and the Bibles. He would sell a lot of Bibles and he would be preaching 28 nights every month, around 145,000 people face to face every month. Wow. A lot of this is written. Wow, that’s amazing. In, in Peter Wagner’s books. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you can get a lot of the information there.
(07:56):
When he came and looked at the church, he called it the second largest in the world. Cuz he had been with Cho, he had seen what Cho was doing and what, what was happening in Argentina at that time. And he would really go into the town before opening it, pray fast stay away when in the spirit. But then he would go and see happen in the natural the first night of the meetings, you know, and a lot of times while he was in prayer, he would have visions of a policeman, okay, they’re gonna arrest me tomorrow. He would put his suit on a tie, get ready, <laugh> wait at the lobby of the hotel. And sure enough, there was a police take him in. You know, we have to question you. What are you doing? Oh. But I have the permits. You know, we were living in a very rough time when the ministry started. All the gorilla movement, the 30,000 that disappeared in Argentina, you know, the military in charge of the government. And, and so, you know, we had to get permits, but I have the permit. No, no, no. But you come with us. And a lot of times, you know, they would hold him till the end of the service and that’s okay, you can go now. Thank you. That’s how my mom ended up preaching <laugh>. So much of a wow
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:22):
Crusades. And so you grew up in that atmosphere? Yeah. What was that like? Were you involved in the ministry? Well
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (09:30):
See what was happening. I remember one day, it was Father’s Day and we were surprising my father showing up. He was staying in a hotel across from the theater where they were going to have the, the meeting full of people. And the moment he gets off of the elevator and comes out, the police takes them. And we, we see that scene and we turn around and look at Mom. Cuz you know, the, the whole, the theater had a, a, a, a aisle in the middle, so you could see, and there’s mom looking at all of that leading worship and seeing how he’s taken and thinking, okay, I have to preach today. Right. Father’s Day. And they just tell them, there, give him a blanket. You know, you stay here. No, no, no, no, no. I want the judge to come. I want this to be written down. You’re holding me here, you’re kidnapping me. You know? And, and they was like, take it easy. I mean, mine is a political title, so if I don’t do this, I can lose my job. My family goes to your meetings. My daughter was healed. She was deaf. I mean, you know, they would know him and and know what he was doing, but still had to stop the,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:53):
Talk to me about the anointing that was on your father’s life. Mm. Often people have a specific message. That’s their life message that mm-hmm. <Affirmative> God has given them. What, what were some of the things that God gave your father that were unique?
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (11:10):
Well, there was a lot of healings in his services creative miracles. I, I could think of many of the miracles that after the Miracle happened, the whole city just opened to the gospel. A lady fell from a three story building down to the floor because of trying to catch her daughter. And in mid-air, she turned around, grabbed her daughter and hugged her. And they both fell. And the weight of the bait of the girl, in fact two, broke all her ribs.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Wow.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (11:50):
And, you know, you can’t put a cast. It’s like you can’t breathe. So her ribs were welded like this so she could feel those protrusions like that, like over bones and is what they call them in Argentina, sore whistle. She could feel them here and here. She had her head, so her skull went in. She could actually put all four fingers straight in like that. Wow. The sight is back there. So she couldn’t see from one of her eyes. She would go on the bike and because of not being able to read depth would hit people, they all thought she was a little crazy. She worked for a dry cleaning service, taking clothes to the different houses. So everybody knew her in town. She goes to the meeting and God started working on her ribs. And the ribs got back together as they should have been before the accident.
(12:51):
And she says, and by the way, when I fell, I had this. And she goes like this. And God had put the skull back together in place, recreated the skull, recreated wherever the hole was right there. And immediately her eyesight was healed. Well, the next night we, we had such a crowd. There was people outside and they had to do two services cuz of such a crowd. Same thing happened in Santo Tome. That was in San San in Santa Fe. The other miracle was in Santo Tome in the state of Santa Fe. This lady was born, I mean, this little girl was born without her ear lobe. She just had a little, like a, a grain, the small, the size of a, a a, a corn. Yeah. You know, just a little thing like that. And hole. And the father and her mother took her there, forgot to heal her.
(14:06):
A lady was next to her, and she’s still in our ministry after 45, 50 years. Saw the moment when the ear started being created. Wow. The ear lobe. And it, my father saw it from the platform and he said, he was like, when you have a balloon that has been deflated and somebody starts blowing, it just goes like that. Yeah. Just blows up. And it just came out, out, out, out, out like that. And the moment it finished, like a wave of power hit that lady that she fell under the power, hit my father on stage, he fell too. People were crying and receiving miracles all over the place. And my father just couldn’t preach. He was taken out to the car, back to the hotel, and they carried him to his bed. Mm. 15 minutes later he said they came to pick him up.
(15:19):
What, what do you need? Oh, you have to go to the service. You left me 15 minutes ago. Said, no, no, no. That was yesterday. It was like he was in another dimension. Well, and I mean, it was like 24 hours. Yeah. He felt like was 15 minutes. And he said the worker said, we came to look for our badges. Why? Well, the police had surrounded the arena. We were at four blocks away. You can’t get in. The crowd had heard of the Miracle, and it was such a crowd that the workers were not allowed in to set up because there were so many people waiting. Wow. during that service. And the next right there they ended up asking some nuns that had come to help pick up the offering. Cause we had, we didn’t have enough workers. Wow. So, yeah. Wow. And every time that God has done something supernatural like that, it’s like the whole city. It’s God’s publicity, I would call it. You know, he would say miracles are like bells that toll calling people onto Salvation Catholic society for mass. You know, the bells would bring. And sure. People would come to mass. And so he, he used the miracles as an analogy of, you know, God doing that, calling people to come to meet the Lord.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:03):
And what impact did your father’s ministry have on the nation of Argentina?
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (17:09):
Well, he was the one in that time that was so hard that the opened the ground, the ground had been hardened. Churches were very small. We had had a previous manifestation of God when Tommy Hicks came and even ended up meeting with the President Perron at that time. And Perron gave him the stadium where he had the crusade. My father was part of the committee that was there with when Tommy Hicks was there. Oh. Thousands and thousands and thousands of people heard the gospel back then, but the church was not ready for the fruit.
(17:51):
And my father doing this spiritual exercise of going into the city, opening the heavens, praying for the strong man to be bound and being able to reap the fruit, left open heavens for many churches to grow after he would be there. And Aldo said, since Cab is here our churches have multiplied, have grown. One of them said, you built my church. My father thought, cuz he was a very generous man, and he would sow in other ministries that he had given him an offering, you know, to build his building. But she said, no, no, no. I had less than 50 people. Now I have a thousand since you came into town. And a lot of those churches even in, in Cordova for example, where he was persecuted a lot, not only by the government, but other pastors honored him to any years later saying, you’ve been an apostle to this city.
(19:03):
You were the one that brought the key for us to open the city for the gospel pastors that now have 10,000, you know, members. Yeah. Or 2000 or a thousand members. They honored my father as being that influence that opened cities. As a matter of fact, when he passed the mantle to me, he says, and I’m giving you the key for you to open. Wow. Sitting for the gospel. He passed me the mantle when we had a convention in our yearly convention in Cordova in touristic Town. And the very first night he said, I’m gonna do something Holy Spirit told me to do eight months ago. And he called me forward and said, I’m passing you the mantle. I’m giving you the presidency of the church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:53):
And you weren’t expecting it.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (19:55):
I was not expecting
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:56):
It. How old were you when that happened?
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (19:57):
37.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:58):
Wow. So you had been serving in the ministry
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (20:01):
Helping the same age? Cindy Jacobs had her first vision of the Lord. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Claudia Freon, same age. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, when he had the anointing fall on him and started ministering. And, you know, we were comparing those on that. And he did it that Monday night. We had the convention till Friday morning and Friday morning we were finishing and he said, no, you’re, you’re, you’re in charge. You finished the convention. So I closed the convention with the communion service. And when I went down to serve him communion, you know, the cup, it dawned on me, this is for real. This is happening. You know. Wow. And that night he flew back to Buenos Aires. It was raining in Buenos Aires. He got soaked, got on a cab cab, took two hours to get to his place cuz it was flooded. When he got to his place, he couldn’t breathe. He called the ambulance, ended up in the hospital, had a couple of heart attacks at night, was in a coma, medicated coma for two weeks and passed away.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:14):
Wow. So when, when God showed him to pass it onto you, he did it in the the time of God. Yeah. Wow. We, and then what did that feel like for you to suddenly now have this, this mantle put on your shoulders? Well, I never, I,
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (21:30):
You know, I never had a chance to ask him, what do he want me to do? Yeah. You know, I, I mean, I was serving the Lord. I was in the Bible school that we had, I was pastoring in, in the, in the town in Rafaela, you know, in Little Town. Then I went to Golo. So I was in the ministry I was serving. I even went and studied in the seminary to prepare for that. But when 145 cities almost a hundred employees all of that fell. I felt the weight of a great responsibility. A friend came from Guatemala and he said, you call it a responsibility. What if you call it an opportunity? And the moment he said that, it was like the vision changed. And I felt I was standing on my father’s shoulders taking note of everything that he had left me. All the properties, the staff, the trained leaders, the literature
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:43):
What a legacy, the
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (22:44):
Impact, the legacy, you know. And I thought, wow, all I can do with what I have. Cause my fear was, I don’t know if I have shoulders for all this, if the weight is not gonna be too big. New pastors that had taken over and, you know, the work that the pioneers had done with such sacrifice was half the size and churches would, you know, put a wall and not even that half that could feel. And I was like, I don’t want that. I don’t want to do that. I mean, it was such a weight. But the moment this friend come, came from Guatemala and told me that. And from there we grew 240 churches and 20 years so many other programs that were, started the television and the whole continent. And then lase for 17 years, a national Christian network that preaches our, our sermons. The Sunday sermon in a thousand Cities. And the seminary site that we’re building. I mean, it’s so many, so many projects. That’s amazing. It’s amazing what God has done
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:06):
Well, but it all started with just going and preaching the gospel.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (24:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. back in 72, we were just a few. And that first crusade preaching the gospel and, and showing signs and wonders to confirm the word. And God always, you know, giving us a strategy at the key moment to continue.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:32):
Was your father’s style similar to Morris Cillo or did he Yes. Did. Was he different?
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (24:39):
No, he, he was, even in the sense, like Morris rule, that he had schools of ministry would train people. He trained a lot of people
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:50):
Raise up an army
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (24:52):
To hear my voice. <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. he, he trained a lot of people and signs and wonders and would take him with him in the crusades. That’s how I got to, to see firsthand. You know, I would go with him in the crusades. He would call the he the sick. He would always minister about one illness. God would show him what he was going to do in that service and he would say, okay, all of you that have hernias, all of you that have problems in your skull, cuz it, it got indented or got hit and it’s, you know, bochy. And they would all come to the front. So we would walk with them and, you know, start asking people, what did you have and how long and what were the symptoms? And,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:47):
You know Yeah.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (25:48):
And we would see God’s power move. A lady I once told me, oh, I’m my believer son. Cuz I was like 13, 14. It’s like, I have more years of believing than you have of life, you know? And she had a big hernia. And my father prayed and I said, well, what happened? Oh son. And she went like this and she missed it. It was so big that she went like that and couldn’t find it. Wow. It disappeared completely. I mean, the size of a, a cantaloupe. Wow. And she goes, I can’t believe it. And I go, I thought you were a believer. <Laugh>. So seeing that firsthand, you know, it just,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:34):
Yeah. So what was the process of your father would go into a city? He would do a crusade. He
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (26:42):
Would start, he would go ahead and stay in a hotel at least seven days, praying and fasting. Wow. usually my mom would go two, three months prior to that. Get the permits and they would choose the city based on the rallies that he would have. And, you know, a lot of buses would come from other towns. So usually when they had 15, 20 big buses coming to this meeting, he would, they would say, well, two, three months from now, we’ll be in your town. So with, even without publicity,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:20):
People would know about it. Yeah. And, and then how were churches planted?
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (27:25):
The rally would continue.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:27):
How long would it usually go? It would be a week, two weeks.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (27:32):
Well, the Crusades originally, yes. But when the persecution was so strong, they would stay two, three days. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you know, and leave. By the time they were starting getting ready to shoot at us, that’s how my dad would put it. Yeah. we would, we’d be gone. But the people knew that 15 days from now we’d be back. And since it was sporadic
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:00):
Were And the stadium would fill Yeah. Every time.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (28:03):
Every time. Yeah. at first the Crusades, you know, the 71, 72, I mean 72, 73, 74, they were longer. As a matter of fact, I’m going now this September to a, a city that he was invited to go by another pastor, and it’s gonna be their 50th anniversary. It was in 73. There, it was so supernatural. The bus, the ambulances were like 10, 15 ambulances would be waiting to go into the stadium to leave their sick. And the power of God fell. People heard from other cities, Christians and come buses. And the moment they crossed the city limits, they’d be filled with the spirit. Wow. People that were even in the main square complaining to the government because of bad salaries would be filled with the spirit in the main square. And a lot of times crowds would be so large coming from all over. By the time the a week, 10 days crusade would finish, we couldn’t even get gasoline to leave town. So we had to stay one or two more days till they
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:37):
Would, because so many people had come. Right. Yeah.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (29:39):
Wow. Or there was, you know, a food. So shortage. Wow. It was a tremendous.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:46):
What what is your greatest memory of your father? How did he most impact your life?
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (29:56):
The time before going on stage. You know, I would usually walk with him till he got on stage. My mom would be introducing him. Here’s a man of God who’s a man of faith that has helped thousands to receive a miracle in their lives with you. The servant of God. And I will be right there with him and I could hear him whisper Holy Spirit. I open myself to you and the ministry of your angels minister, life and power.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:34):
And he’d pray that prayer. He
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (30:35):
Would do that before, every time before Wow. Going on stage, opening himself for the leading of the Holy Spirit. And he would be so sensitive, you know, he would be preaching and sometimes would in parenthesis say, and this comes from the School of the Spirit. And what he meant was, I had never thought of this, I have never studied this, but this comes straight from God revelation. And would, he would give a nugget of truth. You know. And well, we would study that and like, wow, Lord, wow, this is amazing. Or even there’s a person here that you know, and, and flow in the words of knowledge and, and, and see the power of God. You know, bring such healing to the people. Once in Corola he was hearing testimonies and looked at a girl that was in the front row and went like that to her and a stream of light. Everybody saw it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:39):
Wow.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (31:40):
And she had extra vimo, you know, the eyes were like crooked in the middle, like almost behind the nose. Yeah. If you could. And they got straight Wow. Immediately. And the crusade where the ambulances were coming in, he saw a light come on a man. And he said, sir, you’ve been healed. Get up. Get up. I can’t get up in the name of Jesus. You are healed. And he says, no, I can’t. I only have my underwear. <Laugh>. Well wrap yourself on your, in that sheet and just get up
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:16):
And walk. You’ve been
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (32:16):
Healed. And sure enough, he got up, you know, like a wow. Greek with a tunic.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:23):
<Laugh>. Was there any, anyone meeting that was huge that you remember that what, what was the largest event? Did he ever do? The city of Buenos Aires. And
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (32:33):
He, in the city of Buenos Aires, he went to a boxing arena. Yeah. And it only had like five no 3000 in capacity. But the whole entrance was full of people standing and a black and white 19 inch television where they could see him. And a speaker that, you know, would pr you know, the sound of the image did not coincide, but we were, and people would stand all the way out and stop the avenue traffic. At, at that Buenos Aires, the biggest ones were in the center of the country in Cordova, for example, he had a, a, like a seven day crusade for anniversary. And they had like 48,000 people there that every night in the soccer stadium in Cordova. Another, another soccer stadium also. You know, like, but
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:30):
You said earlier he was preaching like 28 nights a month. Uhhuh <affirmative>. How, for how many years did that go? That he was preaching that much?
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (33:38):
Like for 15 years.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:39):
So for 15 years. And it was every month.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (33:42):
And after that we continued doing the rallies. But he would only go to like 15. Not, not, you know, half of them. Cuz he had all the workers that he had already trained. Yeah. You know, the army like Morris. Yeah. that he had left, you know, had trained to go and do the work. So if he wouldn’t go, others would, a lot of times it would happen to us. I was 19 and the driver of the truck that would take the sound with me was 23. And we would get the phone call at the kitchen of the place cuz no cell phones back then. And we would just like, oh, he’s not coming.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:28):
He’s not,
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (34:29):
Can get you enough. You know, we’d go and Yes, no, I’m not going. So you do this and have my son do that and da da da da da. So I was like,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:41):
Wow.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (34:42):
That’s how he would pray us. We had to be ready. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:45):
You were ready And, and you started to preach in the crusades. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. How old were you when you first,
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (34:51):
I, I started, I’ve been with him, you know, worship leader since I was like 15. Yeah. 14, 15. And after I came back from, or Oral Roberts when I was 23, I started going to the crusades and preaching back then at that age when I was 28, I got my first pastorate, but he didn’t give me a a church. He gave me a region of 33 cities. So that’s how I started pastoring
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:25):
And said, go, go plant churches.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (35:27):
No, no. These were churches that were already established. And the pastor was taken away from there. And he said, okay, you, you take go.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:37):
He gave you the region. He
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (35:38):
Gave me the region. 33 cities at age 28. Wow. And you know, we would go and have rallies and crusades and meetings at clubs and arenas and fields that we had pro purchased and everything. And as the crusades continued, you know, sooner or later we would buy the building and move to our own site. And that’s how we do it even till this day, you know. And for
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:12):
And so you’re still doing rallies and crusades? Yeah,
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (36:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We have a lot of sales mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, we work with cell groups and we have in a stadium our all night prayer visual and it seats 12,000 and we have to give tickets cuz a lot of times more people come and it’s a long service. Sure. So you don’t want people to stand outside. Yeah. so we have an all night prayer vigil for the last 10 years now that we do on Good Friday to pray for the nation. And we use a a stadium for that. We use a stadium for our conventions. The last one we had before Covid, we had 19,000 people pay their tickets to be in the convention, in, in Cordova three day convention. And since Covid, a lot of the venues have closed and the stadium has different laws. So we do a morning and evening like 10 10,000 and 10,000 or where we had, we had 8,000 and 8,000 the last one.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (37:28):
Wow. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Well, thank you so much for sharing with me how God has impacted Argentina. Did your father ever go to other nations or just mostly focused on Argentina? He
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (37:39):
Went to other nations to teach on what God had shown him. You know how to do spiritual warfare. Yeah. How to pray to open the city for the Lord. How to raise up leaders to do the work of the ministry all over world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (37:58):
And so since you’ve been on in lase, you’re known all over. Yeah. Not in America.
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (38:02):
Yeah, that’s true.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:04):
Has the ministry expanded to other nations? No. No. Are you just
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (38:07):
Mostly focused on No, we feel our call is there. Some of our pastors, you know, have, well leaders have moved to other nations and they have groups, but they’re not part of the, of our network. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:25):
Well, thank you for sharing with me. That’s powerful,
Pastor Omar Cabrera, Jr. (38:28):
Daniel. Pleasure.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:30):
Daniel King is on a mission to save 1 million souls a year, but he can’t do it alone. Would you consider sowing a financial seed today to give? Please Visit www.kingministries.com.